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View Full Version : Wonder if Narron pays the price if the team folds....



redsfan4445
08-31-2006, 12:32 AM
and the half price nights dont sell out now that the Reds are showing they DONT want to go to the post season bad enough!!!..

well i am sure they are looking for a day off to go party.. they way they are focused they look as they have ben partying to much in California and NOT foucusing on baseball.. the reason i say that is the first game there they probaly rested up so they came out ready.. thwe next 6 nights i bet have been party time..

to bad nobody in the dugout calls players out that arent focused on their jobs!!!


sad state.. never imagined this would happen after winning game 1 of the road trip :(

5TimeWSChamps
08-31-2006, 12:37 AM
One can only hope Narron goes bye-bye.

Ibleedblue
08-31-2006, 12:53 AM
Narron needs to go and so does a chunk of the roster. This offseason will be the time for Bob to put up or shut up about not caring how much money he has to spend or how impatient everybody says he is.

vic715
08-31-2006, 01:22 AM
Why Narron ?This isn't exactly a good team and yet they still have a shot to make the playoffs.He can only use what he has before him. I do agree that alot of these guys need to go and I think some will.But I think Narron has dine all he can do with what he's had to work with.
Just an opinion.

WMR
08-31-2006, 01:31 AM
Jerry Narron is an idiot who would struggle to Manage his way out of a paper bag.

I'll say that when the Reds are winning and I'll say it when they're losing because it's ALWAYS true. Jerry's gaffes are numerous and belie a man who cannot operate at a level sufficient to manage the many nuances of a Major League ball club.

Cicero
08-31-2006, 01:34 AM
I am not one to presume I know better than him as far as in game management goes. I will leave that to others. I do think this team has terrible fundamentals and that is the fault of the coaches.

I want him gone for that reason alone.

Razor Shines
08-31-2006, 01:37 AM
and the half price nights dont sell out now that the Reds are showing they DONT want to go to the post season bad enough!!!..

well i am sure they are looking for a day off to go party.. they way they are focused they look as they have ben partying to much in California and NOT foucusing on baseball.. the reason i say that is the first game there they probaly rested up so they came out ready.. thwe next 6 nights i bet have been party time..

to bad nobody in the dugout calls players out that arent focused on their jobs!!!


sad state.. never imagined this would happen after winning game 1 of the road trip :(

And of course you can prove all of this. It has nothing to do with the fact that they are just not that good of a baseball team. Average baseball teams have 6 game losing streaks. Lucky for us the NL is full of average and poor baseball teams and any one, if not all, of the teams we are in the race with could do the same thing. The Cards had a nine game losing streak just a few weeks ago, and they've got more talent than we do. I suppose you could be right, but it seems that teams always "look" unfocused when they are in the midst of a losing streak.

Razor Shines
08-31-2006, 01:39 AM
Jerry Narron is an idiot who would struggle to Manage his way out of a paper bag.


So that's how you get to the ORG.

Wheelhouse
08-31-2006, 01:46 AM
Why Narron ?This isn't exactly a good team and yet they still have a shot to make the playoffs.He can only use what he has before him. I do agree that alot of these guys need to go and I think some will.But I think Narron has dine all he can do with what he's had to work with.
Just an opinion.

The Reds need a manager with the track record and personality to overwhelm the clubhouse.

TeamBoone
08-31-2006, 02:47 AM
and the half price nights dont sell out now that the Reds are showing they DONT want to go to the post season bad enough!!!..

well i am sure they are looking for a day off to go party.. they way they are focused they look as they have ben partying to much in California and NOT foucusing on baseball.. the reason i say that is the first game there they probaly rested up so they came out ready.. thwe next 6 nights i bet have been party time..

to bad nobody in the dugout calls players out that arent focused on their jobs!!!


sad state.. never imagined this would happen after winning game 1 of the road trip :(

IMHO, this an extremely ridiculous post.

Your allegation that the team is partying instead of focusing on baseball has absolutely no foundation.

And I'm sure the Reds want to go to the postseason just as badly as we want them to.

I have no idea why they're not playing sound baseball, but to suggest it's because they don't want to and that their off the field activities are to blame is a bit off the wall, doncha think?

redsmetz
08-31-2006, 07:23 AM
I just said this over on the thread I started yesterday about an old SI article "The Best of The Bosses". I think the Reds need stability in their on field managing, not yet another new manager. I disagree with those who believe Jerry Narron is an idiot. We've had a revolving door of managers for the most part since Sparky Anderson left nearly thirty years ago - in recent years we're on par with George Steinbrenner at his worst!

MrCinatit
08-31-2006, 07:30 AM
We must remember, Jerry was recently signed to an extension. Teams do not usually fire a manager a few short months after giving them an extension.

Always Red
08-31-2006, 07:59 AM
Narron's not going anywhere. He's in tune with the FO and Mr. Castellini. He's just been signed to an extension.

He's absolutely made some mistakes this year, and it's even easier to point those out in hindsight. He made some moves, he even admitted, from his heart, that backfired. I think he's a stand-up guy for admitting that. He was trying to show confidence in his guys, IMO.

Baseball is a game of confidence, in a lot of ways. If you have 2 guys with similar skills, and one is more confident than the other, he'll be a better ballplayer. Narron was trying to instill confidence in some of those guys along the way, especially in sticking with pitchers who were in tight spots. It didn't work out, but sometimes it does, and when it does, it can push a guy up to another level. Narron was trying to do that, push these guys along to the next level.

I'm sure a lot here will disagree with that, but that's how I see it. Narron can't play the game for these guys. Senior was just saying yesterday on TC's podcast that managers and coaches do not like to teach on the major league level- those are things that should be done in the minors. There is a general lack of focus that I notice, and I don't necessarily blame Narron for that, these guys are professionals and should be ready for all situations. All teams need veteran leadership; is this team getting any from it's veterans?

Ltlabner
08-31-2006, 08:27 AM
well i am sure they are looking for a day off to go party.. they way they are focused they look as they have ben partying to much in California...

I'm not as sure of it as you are, but I guess it could be partying. Or it could be the time change. Or it could be the humidity. Or it could be they'd rather play Xbox. Or it could be the curse of the West Coast road trips. Or if could be an evil plot by BC to stage a come from behind cinderlla finish to the season.

OR it could be the real reason. They are a .500 mediocre ballclub that is falling back to earth.

Highlifeman21
08-31-2006, 08:39 AM
We must remember, Jerry was recently signed to an extension. Teams do not usually fire a manager a few short months after giving them an extension.

So let's set a precedent, start a trend, something.

I've never liked Jerry Narron from Day 1, and regardless of our record I've wanted him gone.

Maybe if we do miss the playoffs, he will finally get all the blame he deserves, and a pink slip to boot.

I'd rather us lose with someone than win in spite of Jerry Narron.

BRM
08-31-2006, 09:36 AM
Like him or not, Jerry Narron will be the manager in 2007. Might as well get used to it.

steig
08-31-2006, 12:18 PM
I only think Narron would be replaced if the team really fails in september. The team could claim they tried to fix the team and replace the bullpen arms and the team went into the toilet. But I think it will also depend if Sweet Lou want to return to Cincinnati.

TOBTTReds
08-31-2006, 12:52 PM
We must remember, Jerry was recently signed to an extension. Teams do not usually fire a manager a few short months after giving them an extension.

That's true, but teams almost never re-sign a manager in mid-season because it doesn't make any sense.

I'm pretty sure Bob signed him anyway, not WK, atleast that is the impression that I have gotten. I've also asked it numerous times on here, and no one had an answer. Dump him.

fewfirstchoice
08-31-2006, 01:05 PM
Wayne and Bob need to address alot of things this off season if they want to make it to the post season next season.I would put a new manager at the top of the list,but it wont happen.They just gave him a extension(didnt they)and are not going to fire him and say they made a mistake.They also need to somehow move Griffey to right field.Dont get me wrong Jr. is one of my all time favorite players but he cant cover Center anymore.I say go after Wells hard in the off season to play center.Sign a #1 pitcher(Zito,Schmidt)or trade for one.I wouldnt mind giving up Dunn if we det a Willis,Oswalt type back for him.Also bring in a closer,maybe able to get Lidge away from Houston for young talent.

Alsoto do this some money would have to be freed up.I would say to get a great Center fielder,a #1 pitcher,and a closer it would probably run about 35-38 million all togther.If we could unload Dunn thats what about 10 of it there,then we have of injured pictuers whos contract end.Paul wilson he made about 5 mil I think.Weathers,Merker contract are gone so theres about 5 more.I m sure theres a couple more players that make a little more that will leave,hopefully we trade Larue.And dont forget the Reds should ad some payroll this off season as well.I think that if we add 10-15 mil in payroll and make a couple moves we could be set for a strong drive net season,so what do you all think.

jimbo
08-31-2006, 01:23 PM
I am not one to presume I know better than him as far as in game management goes. I will leave that to others. I do think this team has terrible fundamentals and that is the fault of the coaches.


I don't agree with this at all. If a player has made it to the majors without being fundamentally sound, and there are many players today who fit this category, then there isn't any amount of coaching or managing that will correct it on a large scale.

Jerry Narron is not the reason why this team is where it is today. Lack of consistant pitching, hitting, and sound defense is.

Z-Fly
08-31-2006, 01:25 PM
Wayne and Bob need to address alot of things this off season if they want to make it to the post season next season.I would put a new manager at the top of the list,but it wont happen.They just gave him a extension(didnt they)and are not going to fire him and say they made a mistake.They also need to somehow move Griffey to right field.Dont get me wrong Jr. is one of my all time favorite players but he cant cover Center anymore.I say go after Wells hard in the off season to play center.Sign a #1 pitcher(Zito,Schmidt)or trade for one.I wouldnt mind giving up Dunn if we det a Willis,Oswalt type back for him.Also bring in a closer,maybe able to get Lidge away from Houston for young talent.

Alsoto do this some money would have to be freed up.I would say to get a great Center fielder,a #1 pitcher,and a closer it would probably run about 35-38 million all togther.If we could unload Dunn thats what about 10 of it there,then we have of injured pictuers whos contract end.Paul wilson he made about 5 mil I think.Weathers,Merker contract are gone so theres about 5 more.I m sure theres a couple more players that make a little more that will leave,hopefully we trade Larue.And dont forget the Reds should ad some payroll this off season as well.I think that if we add 10-15 mil in payroll and make a couple moves we could be set for a strong drive net season,so what do you all think.

Come Back to a place the rest of us call reality. In a non salary cap MLB, the reds will probably never sign a true #1 pitcher. They just can not afford it. We are going to have to pay for LaRue to go somewhere. Dunn is the anchor of our offense. If you get rid of him, you will have to replace him some how. Huston isn't looking to dump Lidge.

Back to the ol' drawing board.:confused:

paulrichjr
08-31-2006, 01:29 PM
Why Narron ?This isn't exactly a good team and yet they still have a shot to make the playoffs.He can only use what he has before him. I do agree that alot of these guys need to go and I think some will.But I think Narron has dine all he can do with what he's had to work with.
Just an opinion.

Because I believe that a team with as much talent as they have SHOULD win the NL central this year or even the wild card. If the Marlins can be where they are then we obviously aren't doing something right.

People say that this isn't exactly a good team yet I look at it and see a lot of players that would start on any team. This team has some talent but I think they haven't completely fulfilled it. I realize that this is counter thinking to many on this board but looking at our lineup I see a team that has a lot of talent. Dunn, EdE, Griffey, Phillips, Ross, Aurilla, Hatteberg, Freel, Harang, Arroyo would all start on most teams in the league (somewhere -maybe not Griffey in center or Aurilla at SS but somewhere).

The bullpen that is often criticized ...almost everyone in it would be welcome additions to any teams bullpen. Even Milton could be a starter for many teams as the 5th starter. I just think Narron gets credit for making this team better when in fact I believe that he is holding it back.

Chip R
08-31-2006, 02:03 PM
It seems - and I have no way of knowing this for sure - that Bob operates the Reds on an impulsive way. That could be good and that could be bad. He doesn't seem to have a lot of patience. Perhaps he came to the decision to re-up Narron because the Reds were doing very well. Now if he's truly a person who acts like that, perhaps if the Reds continue to fade, he will reverse course and fire Narron. It would not be logical and he would open himself up to criticism but that doesn't really matter to someone who reacts impulsively.

redsmetz
08-31-2006, 02:08 PM
It seems - and I have no way of knowing this for sure - that Bob operates the Reds on an impulsive way. That could be good and that could be bad. He doesn't seem to have a lot of patience. Perhaps he came to the decision to re-up Narron because the Reds were doing very well. Now if he's truly a person who acts like that, perhaps if the Reds continue to fade, he will reverse course and fire Narron. It would not be logical and he would open himself up to criticism but that doesn't really matter to someone who reacts impulsively.

I'm not sure it's impulsive at all. While some of the trades may seem willy nilly, I'm not sure it's impulse. I think they've got a plan and a direction and they're trying their best to have it both ways - win now while still winning later.

Some of what we're seeing is cleaning off years of dreck in the team's management, in its system and the development of players, in its marketing. I think it's WOY who has the little tag that says something about turning around an ocean liner. It's not on a dime. I don't think the extensions on Narron and Krivsky were impulsive in the sense of just doing it. I think he sees two individuals who have plans and strategies for taking this team up several notches, bellyaching on RedsZone notwithstanding (and I'm not suggesting the post I'm responding to directly is bellyaching).

Chip R
08-31-2006, 03:28 PM
I'm not sure it's impulsive at all. While some of the trades may seem willy nilly, I'm not sure it's impulse. I think they've got a plan and a direction and they're trying their best to have it both ways - win now while still winning later.

Some of what we're seeing is cleaning off years of dreck in the team's management, in its system and the development of players, in its marketing. I think it's WOY who has the little tag that says something about turning around an ocean liner. It's not on a dime. I don't think the extensions on Narron and Krivsky were impulsive in the sense of just doing it. I think he sees two individuals who have plans and strategies for taking this team up several notches, bellyaching on RedsZone notwithstanding (and I'm not suggesting the post I'm responding to directly is bellyaching).

By someone being impulsive, I really meant Bob instead of Wayne - although Wayne seems to have some of that himself. But I got the feeling that at the time of The Trade, Bob was just so incensed at the state of the bullpen that he basically told Wayne to do whatever it took to improve it. The half-price nights seem to be somewhat inpulsive too. Bob saw that the advance ticket sales weren't good for the Cards series and he didn't want his buddies to see that his team couldn't draw big crowds for that series.

I think they have a plan but perhaps Bob has a little Steinbrenner in him. Now whether it's the good kind or the bad kind is unknown. I kind of get the feeling that Bob wants Homer up bad and Wayne has done his darndest to resist that urge. I do think it will take time to turn this around and this year's team isn't a whole lot bettert than last year's team. Most observers said at the time of the extentions that Jerry and Wayne have done great work but let's wait a while before they get their deals extended. Perhaps Bob overreacted to the great start and decided to extend them anyway. If Bob is that impulsive, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that he may want to make a managerial switch if the Reds flounder in Sept.

Ltlabner
08-31-2006, 03:34 PM
The half-price nights seem to be somewhat inpulsive too. Bob saw that the advance ticket sales weren't good for the Cards series and he didn't want his buddies to see that his team couldn't draw big crowds for that series.

I seem to remember Bob saying in one of his first press conferences or interviews that his dream was to see a packed house for the Card serries. Maybe I am remembering that wrong or have it mixed up? If I am correct, then his decision has little to do with impulsive actions due to advanced ticket sales.

Beyond that, why you you automatically assume that BC wanted to have a packed house for a big serries out of pride and "to impress his buddies"? What evidence has he shown that he's that shallow? Could it be that he wanted a packed house for a big serries because it's good for business all the way around ?

Ltlabner
08-31-2006, 03:36 PM
By someone being impulsive,

I'm not sure it's implusive but more driven. He's driven to have a winning team in Cincinnati. Maybe that's just semantics but, to me, implusivness implies he just jumps around willy nilly in search of success. Driven implies he has a clear vision of what he wants to have happen, even if all the details aren't worked out in advance.

Again, that's just semantics I guess.

MartyFan
08-31-2006, 03:57 PM
We must remember, Jerry was recently signed to an extension. Teams do not usually fire a manager a few short months after giving them an extension.

And GM's don't usually release players they traded for within weeks after their arrival...I'd say all best are off.

Girardi is available after this season and the guy can MANAGE a game and motivate a team.

Pinella is available after this season and he and Mr. C have already met at least one time.

If the Reds fade away I'd say Narron should be a bit nerveous.

crazybob60
08-31-2006, 04:04 PM
And GM's don't usually release players they traded for within weeks after their arrival...I'd say all best are off.

Girardi is available after this season and the guy can MANAGE a game and motivate a team.

Pinella is available after this season and he and Mr. C have already met at least one time.

If the Reds fade away I'd say Narron should be a bit nerveous.

I agree with the last two sentences you made 100%!!!!

fewfirstchoice
08-31-2006, 04:04 PM
Dont get me wrong here I am a Dunn fan but he just cost the Reds to many runs in the outfield.How many balls does he let drop in front of him on a nightly bases that a good,decent,mediocore defensive outfielder would make.Dunns defense is just horrible and his hitting with RISP isnt much better.If we were a American league team I would love to keep him but all our big bats have to play defense and Dunn just doesnt get it done.

Now as to signing a #1 pitcher,it would be possible for the Reds to sign one if they bumped there payroll.Would they have to over pay of course but it would be possible.

Also my post was just saying what I thought they should try and do not what I think will happen.So on that point Z-fly move over on the reality couch because Im back and it feels OH so good.

dabvu2498
08-31-2006, 04:07 PM
Girardi is available after this season and the guy can MANAGE a game and motivate a team.


Actually, the biggest criticism against Girardi has been game management.

Ltlabner
08-31-2006, 07:04 PM
Dont get me wrong here I am a Dunn fan but he just cost the Reds to many runs in the outfield.

I am currious...how many runs is "too many"?

I mean, how many runs has Dunn cost the team this year?

Always Red
08-31-2006, 09:21 PM
Girardi is available after this season and the guy can MANAGE a game and motivate a team.

Pinella is available after this season and he and Mr. C have already met at least one time.


I'd rather have Girardi than Piniella. This team needs a fiery manager to kick it in the butt, and get the vets to step up and lead.

I loved Lou, but his time has come and gone. I have it on good authority (I cannot divulge the source) that he and Mr. C met prior to this season, and Mr. C offered him the job, in fact told him that he would not take "no" for an answer. Lou laughed and told him "no," told him that he is burned out right now and plus, his contract states that he cannot manage this year, and then proceeded to tell Mr.C how good of a manager Jerry Narron is. It is because of this conversation, IMO, that Narron kept the job in the first place, and then was signed to the extension.

redsmetz
08-31-2006, 10:05 PM
I'd rather have Girardi than Piniella. This team needs a fiery manager to kick it in the butt, and get the vets to step up and lead.

If the Reds ever hired Girardi and he brought back the no facial hair rule, that would be last I'd go see this club for a long time. I hated that rule all the time it was here and I'd hate it again.

fewfirstchoice
08-31-2006, 10:19 PM
How many runs has he gave up in the outfield?Who knows,but let me ask you this Ltlabner how many runs has he saved in the outfield.Im willing to bet that hes gave up more runs than saved out there wouldnt you agree.

redsrule2500
08-31-2006, 10:26 PM
Narron > Most people believe

MartyFan
08-31-2006, 11:09 PM
If the Reds ever hired Girardi and he brought back the no facial hair rule, that would be last I'd go see this club for a long time. I hated that rule all the time it was here and I'd hate it again.

I loved that rule...I think it classes up the team to be clean shaven.

Of course upon further reflection I seem to recall that Marge Schott was the last owner to enforce that rule...so much for classing up anything.

I still like that rule.

Team Clark
09-01-2006, 12:06 AM
The Reds need a manager with the track record and personality to overwhelm the clubhouse.

Lou Piniella is nice and rested....:wave: :welcome:

Team Clark
09-01-2006, 12:08 AM
I am currious...how many runs is "too many"?

I mean, how many runs has Dunn cost the team this year?

I'll start the bidding at 20. Since I have no idea how many runs he has cost the Reds I think 20 is a nice round number. :laugh:

Team Clark
09-01-2006, 12:11 AM
Actually, the biggest criticism against Girardi has been game management.

I find that EXTREMELY hard to believe in all sincerity. Not doubting YOU personally as I am sure there are a few ignoramus that say that. Just like I am sure there were a few knuckleheads who blamed Sparky for the 60 losses the Reds would have in a season during the 70's. :laugh:

TeamBoone
09-01-2006, 12:37 AM
I loved that rule...I think it classes up the team to be clean shaven.

No facial hair is classy? I guess that depends on who you talk to because I find it no less classy than well-groomed facial hair.

IMHO, it's a horrible rule. Unless it's an occupational hazard, grown men should have the right to decide for themselves whether or not to sport facial hair (or long hair for that matter) as long as it's trimmed and clean.

They are not children, after all, and should not be dicated to about something that is a personal preferance.

MartyFan
09-01-2006, 12:46 AM
No facial hair is classy? I guess that depends on who you talk to because I find it no less classy than well-groomed facial hair.

IMHO, it's a horrible rule. Unless it's an occupational hazard, grown men should have the right to decide for themselves whether or not to sport facial hair (or long hair for that matter) as long as it's trimmed and clean.

They are not children, after all, and should not be dicated to about something that is a personal preferance.

Just MHO

I like it...no biggie.

Reds4Life
09-01-2006, 12:49 AM
Extending Narrons contract when they did was a huge tactical error, everyone on Redszone saw it, too bad Bob C didn’t. But, what's done is done. I'd say the odds of Narron being fired are pretty slim. Even if we totally tank from now until the end of the season I think Narron keeps his job.

The only name that would fire up the fans would be Piniella, and he wouldn't come cheap. He's also made it clear he wants to win, right now, and that means a pretty large payroll. I'd love to have him back, but I don't see it happening with the current position of the organization and Lou's goals.

TOBTTReds
09-01-2006, 01:05 AM
Extending Narrons contract when they did was a huge tactical error, everyone on Redszone saw it, too bad Bob C didnít. But, what's done is done. I'd say the odds of Narron being fired are pretty slim.

Although we all love Bob right now...I'm afraid I see Bob turning into a slight Jerry Jones type of owner. Too hands on. I don't want Uncle Carl back by any means because atleast Bob is trying, but I'm afraid some things will be decided by him that WK should be deciding.

Maybe TC's avatar can help see the future to what Bob will be like.

TOBTTReds
09-01-2006, 01:07 AM
Lou Piniella is nice and rested....:wave: :welcome:

Has he been to "Betty's" house lately...if you know what I mean?

jhiller21
09-01-2006, 03:29 AM
Extending Narron's contract when they did was pretty foolish. He's made far more than the average manager's share of bad moves this season.

He might be a player's manager, but that doesn't mean much when the fans realise he's a complete idiot.

redsmetz
09-01-2006, 05:55 AM
Extending Narrons contract when they did was a huge tactical error, everyone on Redszone saw it, too bad Bob C didnít. But, what's done is done. I'd say the odds of Narron being fired are pretty slim. Even if we totally tank from now until the end of the season I think Narron keeps his job.

No, everyone on RedsZone did not see that. Not everyone here hates Jerry Narron. A number of us have noted that he's done a pretty decent job juggling a moving target roster. While he's made some mistakes (and acknowledged them too from time to time), overall I think he's been part of moving this club forward.

I've noted several times that the managerial seat has been far to unstable over the last couple of decades. Stability in both on-field and off-field management is as much a part of the solution as anything. Look for some changes in the off-season with coaching staffs though, as well as in the scouting department. They're building this thing methodically and they haven't mortgaged the future for solely winning today.

mth123
09-01-2006, 06:09 AM
No, everyone on RedsZone did not see that. Not everyone here hates Jerry Narron. A number of us have noted that he's done a pretty decent job juggling a moving target roster. While he's made some mistakes (and acknowledged them too from time to time), overall I think he's been part of moving this club forward.

I've noted several times that the managerial seat has been far to unstable over the last couple of decades. Stability in both on-field and off-field management is as much a part of the solution as anything. Look for some changes in the off-season with coaching staffs though, as well as in the scouting department. They're building this thing methodically and they haven't mortgaged the future for solely winning today.

I agree with this and would not be in the fire Narron camp. That said, in game tactics need to improve - a lot!

The Reds need a crusty old baseball lifer on the bench next to Narron whispering (or maybe yelling if that is needed to get through) in his ear. Think Don Zimmer would come out of retirement for his hometown team?
:)

redsmetz
09-01-2006, 08:16 AM
I agree with this and would not be in the fire Narron camp. That said, in game tactics need to improve - a lot!

The Reds need a crusty old baseball lifer on the bench next to Narron whispering (or maybe yelling if that is needed to get through) in his ear. Think Don Zimmer would come out of retirement for his hometown team?
:)

I wondered about that yesterday when I posted excerpts of the column "The Best of The Bosses" from SI in 1988. They mentioned that Zimmer was among the best evaluators of talent. We all know his track record as Torre's lieutenant in NY and he's hometown. [I tried finding a photo on the web of Zimmer with the Reds in 1962, but alas, no luck on that one].

redsmetz
09-01-2006, 08:22 AM
I loved that rule...I think it classes up the team to be clean shaven.

Of course upon further reflection I seem to recall that Marge Schott was the last owner to enforce that rule...so much for classing up anything.

I still like that rule.

At the time Greg Vaughn was going to be coming to the Reds, the Enquirer asked readers to give their opinion via the web. The note I wrote is still on the web.


I have long found the ban INSULTING, since I've sported a beard for over 25 years. My five brothers, and two brothers-in-law all have some facial hair (beard, moustache, or goatee). I've long felt the ban was antiquated, dating from an era when management feared unkempt hippies playing for this conservative city's ball team. But today (and for a long time now), facial hair has been very common in all circles of life. Last year, the overwhelming majority of players who came to the Reds in trades had facial hair. It's silly. It's time to end it.

I'm not particularly interested in the Reds going back to telling me that there's something wrong with facial hair. If such a thing would happen, they could kiss my dollars goodbye.

It's not "classy", it's needlessly rigid. You can create a team framework without such silliness.

Ltlabner
09-01-2006, 08:27 AM
It's not "classy", it's needlessly rigid. You can create a team framework without such silliness.

Dead on!

The no facial hair rule is pointless. I don't go to GABP to see "classy". I go to the symphony or a country club to see classy. I go to GABP to see the Reds win (well, in theory anyway).

I love the classy argument for the rule. Facial hair isn't classy but spitting tobacco juice, constant crotch adjusting and patting another mans butt is class? Eating hotdogs and spilling sauerkraut allover your shirt is classy? Sitting in the left field bleachers and being soaked in sweat and packed in against all your neighbors is classy? Come on.

Baseball is what it is. Facial hair makes zero impact on a ball team being classy. It's what's inside a person that makes them classy, not their outward appearace.

MartyFan
09-01-2006, 11:52 AM
WOW...good to see such a strong commitment to facial hair.

Puts a little song in my heart...

Real American heros
Mr No Facial Hair Hater...


You love the facial hair and I never realized how men and women with facial hair had been oppressed over the years....glad to see people with the courage to say they won't go back to the days of "Shave and a Hair Cut....Two bits"...I applaud your courage.

To say that your dollars would be gone if such a rule were put in place is pretty funny...I mean, c'mon...it's facial hair...it grows back...no?

I think it looks good...I think most players who wear the facial hair look sloppy...I also like there to be a hair length rule and I like when the uniform rule tells them how to wear their pants...Also Tattoo's...yeah, absolutely no visable tattoo's.

But that would be in my needlessly rigid fantasy world...yep.

Okay...there was a lion and a scarecrow and tin man.......

Team Clark
09-01-2006, 12:06 PM
Has he been to "Betty's" house lately...if you know what I mean?

Yes Indeed.

Glad you liked the Avatar!:laugh:

Team Clark
09-01-2006, 12:08 PM
I wondered about that yesterday when I posted excerpts of the column "The Best of The Bosses" from SI in 1988. They mentioned that Zimmer was among the best evaluators of talent. We all know his track record as Torre's lieutenant in NY and he's hometown. [I tried finding a photo on the web of Zimmer with the Reds in 1962, but alas, no luck on that one].


Anyone notice the Yankees have not been back to the WS since Zim left?

BTW, I liked the facial hair rule. Uniformity. I had the same type of rules in Grade School, High School and work environment. Some people feel comfortable in a totalitarian environment! :devil:

Chip R
09-01-2006, 12:12 PM
I seem to remember Bob saying in one of his first press conferences or interviews that his dream was to see a packed house for the Card serries. Maybe I am remembering that wrong or have it mixed up? If I am correct, then his decision has little to do with impulsive actions due to advanced ticket sales.

Beyond that, why you you automatically assume that BC wanted to have a packed house for a big serries out of pride and "to impress his buddies"? What evidence has he shown that he's that shallow? Could it be that he wanted a packed house for a big serries because it's good for business all the way around ?

I don't know if he did or didn't say that. But why didn't he make tickets half price for all the Cardinals series instead of that particular one? It was as impulsive as that kind of a decision could be since you need time to let people know about it.

As for "impressing his buddies", I think it was more to avoid embarrassment than trying to impress them. DeWitt, et. al. shouldn't impress easily since they sell out all the time in StL. Put yourself in Bob's shoes. You have a team fighting for first place in August and they can't even draw over 30K against the team they are vying for first place against without some sort of gimmick.

westofyou
09-01-2006, 12:52 PM
No facial hair came from the same guy that refused to entertain the free agent market or the growning number of agents in the game, and thus speaks volumns about what era he came out of in America (the 50's)

Well the game mirrors society, everyone and their mother had a stach or a beard in the 19th century, then it went out of fashion, Frenchy Bordagaray showed up to the Dodgers ST one year with a stache and it caused a scandal. I find grooming rules oppressive and militeristic, there's already enough of that type of thinking in the world IMO.

Reds4Life
09-01-2006, 12:55 PM
No, everyone on RedsZone did not see that. Not everyone here hates Jerry Narron. A number of us have noted that he's done a pretty decent job juggling a moving target roster. While he's made some mistakes (and acknowledged them too from time to time), overall I think he's been part of moving this club forward.

I've noted several times that the managerial seat has been far to unstable over the last couple of decades. Stability in both on-field and off-field management is as much a part of the solution as anything. Look for some changes in the off-season with coaching staffs though, as well as in the scouting department. They're building this thing methodically and they haven't mortgaged the future for solely winning today.

You don't have to be anti-Narron to not support the extention. There were plenty of Narron supporters who didn't beleive it was the greatest idea either, and they should have waited until the end of the season.

durl
09-01-2006, 01:15 PM
I can understand people wanting to hang this 6-game losing streak on someone, but calling for Narron to be fired because of the team's current position?

This Reds team under Narron was tied for the division lead last week. They caught the Cardinals. For four months the Reds FAR, FAR, FAR exceeded anyone's wildest dreams about where this team would be at the end of August. I'm not ready to call for Narron's head because of one bad week when our offense can't drive in runs.

No one expected this team to be in the running for the playoffs this year yet here we are. People should be impressed.

TOBTTReds
09-01-2006, 03:04 PM
I can understand people wanting to hang this 6-game losing streak on someone, but calling for Narron to be fired because of the team's current position?


I've been calling for him to be fired for months...even when we were in first. :D

Newman4
09-01-2006, 03:26 PM
First, I think Narron is not very good at many aspects of managing. When discussing his strengths, most supporters cite things like "morale", "player's manager", "Good in the clubhouse", (insert unmeasurable intangible here), etc. Coincidently, I think Lou or Girardi would both be better at those types of things.

As for the facial hair policy, I can see both sides of it. However, I would like to see a hair cut policy more than facial hair policy. Most of the guys seem to do ok with well-groomed facial hair moreso than they do their hair cuts. Long, shaggy, dirty-looking hair is less groomed than any goatee or beard ever will be. Skanky. :(