Pitching coach may be the problem

[Matt700wlw]

I know, Tom Hume is the fill in....but could that have anything to do with the bullpen problems?

Or is it the bullpen coach?



Rick White - stinks here, been pretty good in Philly.

Dave Williams - stunk here, Mets seemed to have straightened him out

Rheal Cormier - had the lowest ERA of relievers in the NL, and did well in Philly....not so much here.

Majewski - ok...he's been hurt, but he was better in DC than here.

etc.
etc.
etc.

Am I stretching here?

[redsmetz]

It might well be the position (or positions) that's the problem. We aren't privy to whether Hume is being able to implement his own philosophy. We don't know whether the bullpen misses what he had out there prior to moving to the dugout. The "what ifs" go on and on.

[flyer85]

Just the randomness of BABIP and variances in HR rate as much as anything.

Guardado was good after coming over, so were Lohse and SS.

[CTA513]

Williams spent time on the DL with the Mets.
I think it was because of a shoulder injury.

[johngalt]

Cormier was incredibly hit lucky before coming over, which is why he had a crazy low ERA to begin with.

[Team Clark]

I don't know if I would put all of that on Tommy's shoulders. He's done a pretty good job. Although, I will say there is a missing piece.

[Jpup]

I don't know if I would put all of that on Tommy's shoulders. He's done a pretty good job. Although, I will say there is a missing piece.

A manager would be a good start.

[redsmetz]

A manager would be a good start.

Ad infinitum. There will be no change in manager during the offseason. There is no need for a change in manager in the offseason. For nearly 30 years we've turned over managers as often as George Steinbrenner in his hayday. We have a descent manager who is quite capable, despite the rantings on RedsZone, to move this team forward. We need stability in this area. That's why the extensions were given.

Regarding the subject at hand, we need something additional in the pitching coach area. Whether it is making Tom Hume the fulltime guy, bringing back Vern Ruhle (if completely healthy) and returning Humie to the bullpen, perhaps a new bullpen coach.

But's it's not getting a new manager. :bang: :bang: :bang:

[Jpup]

Ad infinitum. There will be no change in manager during the offseason. There is no need for a change in manager in the offseason. For nearly 30 years we've turned over managers as often as George Steinbrenner in his hayday. We have a descent manager who is quite capable, despite the rantings on RedsZone, to move this team forward. We need stability in this area. That's why the extensions were given.

Regarding the subject at hand, we need something additional in the pitching coach area. Whether it is making Tom Hume the fulltime guy, bringing back Vern Ruhle (if completely healthy) and returning Humie to the bullpen, perhaps a new bullpen coach.

But's it's not getting a new manager. :bang: :bang: :bang:

I disagree strongly. I think they need to fire them all and bring in their own guys. Jerry Narron is terrible.

[mbgrayson]

What about GABP and how many HRs have been hit there? SUrely that can't help some pitchers.

On the flip side, what about Kyle Lohse, Eric Milton and Bronson Arroyo. All are doing better this year in Cincinnati than before. Does Hume get credit for that?

[Jpup]

What about GABP and how many HRs have been hit there? SUrely that can't help some pitchers.

On the flip side, what about Kyle Lohse, Eric Milton and Bronson Arroyo. All are doing better this year in Cincinnati than before. Does Hume get credit for that?


He also can take the credit for the other 20 or 25 that have stunk.

[TeamBoone]

He also can take the credit for the other 20 or 25 that have stunk.

I disagree. Some of them weren't with the Reds long enough to be helped.

[Doc. Scott]

It's amazing that people even bother going on about the possibility of firing Jerry Narron. The guy got a contract extension and he's liked by the general manager. He has about as much chance of going away as... something that isn't going away.

[Unassisted]

I'm still pulling for Vern Ruhle to take back the reins in '07. I think Vern could make the pitching staff better.

[REDREAD]

What about GABP and how many HRs have been hit there? SUrely that can't help some pitchers.

On the flip side, what about Kyle Lohse, Eric Milton and Bronson Arroyo. All are doing better this year in Cincinnati than before. Does Hume get credit for that?


No, he gets no credit, he only gets flogged for guys that improve after they leave. :laugh:

I've heard a lot of pitchers in the past say great things about Hume as a bullpen coach. Perhaps since he's doing double duty this year, and the Reds have had about 100 pitchers pass through the roster this year, he simply can't help everyone? Not to mention that a lot of guys probably aren't receptive to a coach's advice either, and a coach can't be expected to help everyone.

[edabbs44]

I know, Tom Hume is the fill in....but could that have anything to do with the bullpen problems?

Or is it the bullpen coach?



Rick White - stinks here, been pretty good in Philly.

Dave Williams - stunk here, Mets seemed to have straightened him out

Rheal Cormier - had the lowest ERA of relievers in the NL, and did well in Philly....not so much here.

Majewski - ok...he's been hurt, but he was better in DC than here.

etc.
etc.
etc.

Am I stretching here?

How about Arroyo? :)

[Team Clark]

How about Arroyo? :)


When your catcher calls the SAME game over and over and over... Other teams will pick up on that! :laugh: It was nice to see Arroyo rely less on his curve and pitch at a much quicker pace this last start.

[Wheelhouse]

I think the Reds have a poor pitching culture overall--Arroyo is simply a very smart pitcher, a student of the game and a self starter. They have a very good hitting culture--hitters tend to improve coming to the Reds. Pitchers tend to get worse, I agree.

[Falls City Beer]

I think the Reds have a poor pitching culture overall--Arroyo is simply a very smart pitcher, a student of the game and a self starter. They have a very good hitting culture--hitters tend to improve coming to the Reds. Pitchers tend to get worse, I agree.

I can't argue with this. The pitching culture of this team is atrocious.

[Kc61]

What about GABP and how many HRs have been hit there? SUrely that can't help some pitchers.

On the flip side, what about Kyle Lohse, Eric Milton and Bronson Arroyo. All are doing better this year in Cincinnati than before. Does Hume get credit for that?

Agree. Look at the Reds' home/away pitching stats. On the road the Reds have the fourth best ERA in the National League. At home, next to worst.

The Reds have never tailored their pitching staff to their ballpark. They need to analyze what kinds of pitchers do well in GABP -- it may seem obvious but they should go through the exercise -- and gear the off-season plan to bringing in some, while reducing the number of extreme fly ball types.

Once the personnel is more suitable, then if they fail we can blame the coaches.