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View Full Version : Why did Berry not send EdE?



ED44
09-13-2006, 11:38 AM
The Reds escaped last night...and at the end of the day that's all that really matters. But, what did you all do when EdE did not tag on the fly ball hit by Hollandsworth with the bases loaded and one out? I could not believe that the Reds didn't challenge Cameron's arm and, at least, attempt to tie the game in that situation. I was just wondering everyone's reaction. I was furious...and maybe EdE didn't get a good jump or slipped on his initial reaction...but if that's not the case Berry needs to have his head examined. Sorry if this was already talked about...I missed it if so.

SultanOfSwing
09-13-2006, 12:04 PM
I did not watch the game or see the replay, but the The Cincinnati Post had this quote:


"Encarnacion had failed to tag up at third base on a sinking liner to center field with the bases loaded in the sixth inning and the Reds had come up empty"

So I guess it wasn't MB's fault at all.

ED44
09-13-2006, 12:13 PM
I did not watch the game or see the replay, but the The Cincinnati Post had this quote:



So I guess it wasn't MB's fault at all.


Thanks for that...the angle from the replay didn't really show anything...it just looked like EdE stopped about 1/3 of the way down the line.

Jr's Boy
09-13-2006, 12:16 PM
I was wondering the same thing.I listened to the game and Marty sounded shocked that Berry didn't send him.I guess Berry does'nt understand the importance of this time in the season.You send that runner ''come hell or highwater'' with so much on the line.IIRC this isn't the first time this year he has cost the Reds a run(s) with his coaching.

dabvu2498
09-13-2006, 12:18 PM
I was wondering the same thing.I listened to the game and Marty sounded shocked that Berry didn't send him.I guess Berry does'nt understand the importance of this time in the season.You send that runner ''come hell or highwater'' with so much on the line.IIRC this isn't the first time this year he has cost the Reds a run(s) with his coaching.

Only problem is... it didn't cost them a run. It could have, but BP took care of that with his FC.

Jr's Boy
09-13-2006, 12:22 PM
Only problem is... it didn't cost them a run. It could have, but BP took care of that with his FC.


My point is you got to take chances now,especially with only one out.Like I said before playing it safe gets you no where.

REDJAKE
09-13-2006, 12:23 PM
I watched it and it appeared EdE went down the line in case it fell in and was in no position to tag up.GO CINCY!!!!

redsmetz
09-13-2006, 12:30 PM
I watched it and it appeared EdE went down the line in case it fell in and was in no position to tag up.GO CINCY!!!!

That may well come down to coaching. I know when I coached my son's team, I'd be telling runners to get back to tag up. It's one thing to be on second and do that (and even that's questionable), but if it falls in and you're on third, you trot in. If it's caught, you go like the dickens.

It's these small things that frustrate me about the Reds and I'm hoping Narron addresses this, even though it ultimately didn't cost us the run. When you're struggling to score with runners in scoring position, you've got to make the right plays when they present themselves.

Knock on both EE and Berry here. Wake up, guys!

ED44
09-13-2006, 12:43 PM
The Reds won and that's all that matters...but BP's RBI groundout would have been the go ahead run had EdE scored on the Hollandsworth flyout. Valentin struck out and left the bases loaded after he failed to tag on that ball. BP's groundout came 2 innings later.

dabvu2498
09-13-2006, 01:01 PM
My point is you got to take chances now,especially with only one out.Like I said before playing it safe gets you no where.

You play it much safer with zero outs than with one. The odds of scoring a runner from 3b with one out are still very good... and it worked out that way.

That said, the evidence that is mounting is that is wasn't Berry's fault anyway.

durl
09-13-2006, 01:31 PM
The Cincy Enquirer website says that Berry sent EE, but EE stopped on his own.

Always Red
09-13-2006, 01:35 PM
I watched it and it appeared EdE went down the line in case it fell in and was in no position to tag up.GO CINCY!!!!

I saw it too, and I thought that he tagged, put his head down and took three sprinting steps and then stopped without looking up and went back.

I kind of assumed at that point that Berry had called him back, especially since he did not look up at all, but the replay did not show Berry in the frame at all, only EE.

TOBTTReds
09-13-2006, 01:42 PM
He went right when it was caught then stopped. Honestly, how would he know that would be cut at 2nd, and he would have been dead to rights if it wasn't. Third, it was so shallow, the SS could have cut it and still thrown him out maybe.

Good think is, he made up for it with aggressive running by stealing 3rd, then scoring on the FC later in the game.

RedFanAlways1966
09-13-2006, 01:47 PM
Just my opinion...

How far was the ball behind 2nd-base when caught by a hard-charging Cameron? Not that great of a distance. Takes a 1/2-way decent throw to nail Edwin. Not a great throw, not a perfect throw... 1/2-way decent.

It was pointed out in the Old Red Guard game thread (a topic that was discussed for a few pages) that Cameron does not have a strong arm. Still... it was not a long throw by any means. A decent throw from a not-so-strong arm and Edwin is out by 10-feet IMO. Do ya chance it and take the bat out of the next hitter's hands (who got out anyway... in hindsight)?

Also pointed out in the ORG game thread was the fact that Cameron did not throw home (threw to 2nd-base). I do not believe he was conceding the run, but thought he had Dunn doubled off at 2nd. Which also shows how close Cameron was to the infield when he caught the liner... Dunn was only a few steps off and darn near got doubled off to end the inning.

It was a tough decision. But rest assured... if Edwin gets nailed by 10-feet, then there are threads started here that point out the lunancy of him trying to score on it! Just the nature of the game and the beast. :)

BTW... Edwin was tagging all the way. He was not down the line and out of position as mentioned above.

EKURed
09-13-2006, 01:51 PM
I was at the game. He tagged up, started down the line, and stopped.

TOBTTReds
09-13-2006, 04:55 PM
Just my opinion...

How far was the ball behind 2nd-base when caught by a hard-charging Cameron? Not that great of a distance. Takes a 1/2-way decent throw to nail Edwin. Not a great throw, not a perfect throw... 1/2-way decent.

It was pointed out in the Old Red Guard game thread (a topic that was discussed for a few pages) that Cameron does not have a strong arm. Still... it was not a long throw by any means. A decent throw from a not-so-strong arm and Edwin is out by 10-feet IMO. Do ya chance it and take the bat out of the next hitter's hands (who got out anyway... in hindsight)?

Also pointed out in the ORG game thread was the fact that Cameron did not throw home (threw to 2nd-base). I do not believe he was conceding the run, but thought he had Dunn doubled off at 2nd. Which also shows how close Cameron was to the infield when he caught the liner... Dunn was only a few steps off and darn near got doubled off to end the inning.

It was a tough decision. But rest assured... if Edwin gets nailed by 10-feet, then there are threads started here that point out the lunancy of him trying to score on it! Just the nature of the game and the beast. :)

BTW... Edwin was tagging all the way. He was not down the line and out of position as mentioned above.


Very good post, and I agree.

Highlifeman21
09-13-2006, 10:43 PM
The Cincy Enquirer website says that Berry sent EE, but EE stopped on his own.


This may or may not have been the case.


Sharp liner to CF off Hollandsworth's bat, IIRC. Cameron made a great break on the ball, and had made up his mind to go to 2nd with his throw. From the replays shown, Cameron's throw looked to be going towards home and the 2B caught it on the way. EE seemed to react that the throw was going home, and since Cameron was very short in CF, would probably have been dead at home. EE went back. Had the throw gone through to home, I firmly believe EE would have been meat. He had no way of knowing Cameron's throw was intentionally going to 2nd to try and double up Dunn.

I'm not sure if Berry sent EE, but EE definitely made up his own mind to hit the brakes. I don't think it was a good idea to try and score on that ball, Cameron was way too close to the infield, and had that throw gone through to home, EE was out by 10 feet.

TeamBoone
09-14-2006, 11:24 AM
This topic was brought up during yesterday's pregame.

Chris Welsh said he talked to EE and Berry after the game. EE stopped on his own, for this reason.... he saw where the ball was hit (shallow behind 2nd base) and assumed the throw would go to home, so he stopped and went back to 3rd... only then realizing the throw went to 2nd (and whomever said Dunn was only a few feet off 2nd was wrong... he was a third of the way to 3rd base).

I have mixed emotions on this. I can understand why EE did what he did based on the additional information. What I DON'T UNDERSTAND is why Berry didn't give him some help... like go, go, go (or something similar). He obviously could see how the play was developing and, after all, isn't that what he's there for?