Time to unload Griffey and Dunn

[Go_Cats_Go!]

Seriously,

Whatever we can get for Griffey, get it, and split his salary with someone. Dunn just needs to go. He is a huge liability in the outfield and shows no willingness to learn how to hit the ball to the opposite field.

Adam's comment about why bother with batting practice really irked me. Maybe you could learn how to bunt :bang: .

Could the reds get at least a starting pitcher and an everyday outfielder for the two of them?

[RedFanAlways1966]

You must get one important thing first IIRC... Junior's permission. 10-5 rights.

Trade the two HR leaders on the team? Okay. Small-ball must be trendy again. I wonder how much Aaron, Bonds, Ruth, Mays, Killebrew, Schmidt and Jackson worked on their bunting skills? :)

[Go_Cats_Go!]

Unfortunately I think that this whole team needs to be restructured to play a little more small ball next year with some improved pitching. Waiting for the big inning just isn't working with these guys. They strike out way too much.

[paintmered]

Unfortunately I think that this whole team needs to be restructured to play a little more small ball next year with some improved pitching. Waiting for the big inning just isn't working with these guys. They strike out way too much.


And here we go....


I think this one is good for at least, 12 pages.

[westofyou]

Yes. that's the ticket, small ball in the MLB's most HR friendly park.

[Heath]

And here we go....


I think this one is good for at least, 12 pages.

Well, you DO have the power to stop it.

All I have to say is Griffey's a dye-in-the-wool Republican - and Click - WHOOSH- to the Peanut Gallery it goes! :D

[gilpdawg]

Yes. that's the ticket, small ball in the MLB's most HR friendly park.
Funny how people miss the obvious, isn't it?

[TOBTTReds]

Here are the issues this team has:

3 catchers...one making 5 mil next year that has been awful this year.

An over-achieving veteran 1B with poor footwork around the bag.

Our best infielder playing 2B

An over-achieving veteran at SS with minus range

A rookie 3B that is still learning the position day to day...turning into a star though.

A poor LF'er, but when he is on, this team flourishes, when he is off they sink. Live by the Dunn, die by the Dunn.

An old CF'er with no range that refuses to move (so we think) positions. Also he is the #3 hitter on the team, despite his .315 obp (9th on the team) and a .479 slg % (5th on the team). Also a massive contract with 10-5 rights.

RF is actually solid if Freel is there.

We have two good starting pitchers, the rest are up in the air. One guy is making around 8-9 mil next year to post a 5.00 era. There are also many other issues.

Either way, there are a lot of things to fix before dumping Dunn. Griffey on the other hand is fine with me if you can. Dunn is a guy to build around, even though he slips every once in a while. He has won many games for this team this year.

[reds44]

RF is actually solid if Freel is there.
*3 or 4 times a week.

[ChatterRed]

I came on Redszone ready to post a "get rid of Dunn" thread. But you beat me to it.

Anyone who wants to keep this guy is clueless, period.

I'm sick of him. His comments didn't help my already negative opinion of him. I look in the boxscore night after night expecting something and his o-fer most of the time.

Get rid of him.

[CTA513]

Adam's comment about why bother with batting practice really irked me. Maybe you could learn how to bunt :bang: .


Narron isnt going to have him bunt, just like hes not going to ask Griffey to bunt.

[lo ryder]

I came on Redszone ready to post a "get rid of Dunn" thread. But you beat me to it.

Anyone who wants to keep this guy is clueless, period.

I'm sick of him. His comments didn't help my already negative opinion of him. I look in the boxscore night after night expecting something and his o-fer most of the time.

Get rid of him.

Maybe, but now is not the time. Hang on to him until another pennant chase heats up next year and the Reds can acquire fair value. His ceiling would be much higher in the AL. Give the farm system a little time and this will be a solid ball club.

[CTA513]

I came on Redszone ready to post a "get rid of Dunn" thread. But you beat me to it.

Anyone who wants to keep this guy is clueless, period.

I'm sick of him. His comments didn't help my already negative opinion of him. I look in the boxscore night after night expecting something and his o-fer most of the time.

Get rid of him.

I would say get rid of Griffey, but who is going to want a guy thats either on the bench with an injury or on the DL?

[TeamBoone]

Seriously,

Whatever we can get for Griffey, get it, and split his salary with someone. Dunn just needs to go. He is a huge liability in the outfield and shows no willingness to learn how to hit the ball to the opposite field.

Adam's comment about why bother with batting practice really irked me. Maybe you could learn how to bunt :bang: .

Could the reds get at least a starting pitcher and an everyday outfielder for the two of them?

He didn't say "why bother". He said "we are playing badly at the worst possible time. we could take extra batting practice but that won't do anything".

At this point in the season, I think he has a good point.

[pedro]

I came on Redszone ready to post a "get rid of Dunn" thread. But you beat me to it.

Anyone who wants to keep this guy is clueless, period.

I'm sick of him. His comments didn't help my already negative opinion of him. I look in the boxscore night after night expecting something and his o-fer most of the time.

Get rid of him.

classy and well informed. what a lethal combo.

[TOBTTReds]

Anyone who wants to keep this guy is clueless, period.



I'm guessing about 75% of this board is clueless, period.

Including me! :wave:


(well i guess it depends what we could get for him really)

[Krusty]

If the Reds can trade either Griffey or Dunn to Detroit for some of their young pitching, I think the Reds have to consider it.

[Heath]

If the Reds can trade either Griffey or Dunn to Detroit for some of their young pitching, I think the Reds have to consider it.

and when my 6 yr old wants something and pleads his case, I sometimes would say "I'll consider it".

It doesn't mean I'm jumping to do it or fulfilling it. I even say no.

[zombielady]

I would cry if they got rid of Griffey. Really, I'm not good with change, I threw a tantrum when he changed his number!

[44Magnum]

I would pay another team 100% of Jr's salary if he would simply not come back next year! That's how sick I am of Jr. I would also look to unload Dunn.

[Red Rover]

I love both Dunn & Griffey, but in a weak pitching year for the NL, I would of hoped for both of their stats to be off the charts. These two should have really chrushed some of the weak right handed starters/pitchers in this league, as Hatty did. Lets hope this isn't a trend next year.

[flyer85]

Seriously,Whatever we can get for Griffey, get it the answer is nothing. The opportunity to trade Jr passed in August of 2005 and the Reds are much the worse for it when you consider they could have had Young.

[Red Leader]

the answer is nothing. The opportunity to trade Jr passed in August of 2005 and the Reds are much the worse for it when you consider they could have had Young.

Agreed. Ken Griffey Jr isn't going anywhere until the Reds can buy out his option. No one will take on any of his salary OR give up anything of value for him.

That was a trade the Reds should have made last year. Thanks, DanO.

[SultanOfSwing]

the answer is nothing. The opportunity to trade Jr passed in August of 2005 and the Reds are much the worse for it when you consider they could have had Young.

Young who?

[westofyou]

Young who?

http://www.port.hu/picture/instance_2/29894_2.jpg

[Red Leader]

Young who?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7738

[Wheelhouse]

Funny how people miss the obvious, isn't it?

Actually, a 20 HR hitter, who plays defense and runs the bases well can become a 25-28 HR player at GABP. That is decent power. Add in the small-ball abilities of the player and alltogether you have a very potent player, and team, if the players have these qualities. The player who hits moonshots will not see as big a difference in HR production at GABP. When he hits them they're out wherever they are. So GABP can help a Twins-like gameplan more than a Boston-type one because the Twinsian team would have added power in addition to their regular offensive weapons and the Bostonian team would be playing the same game.

[Red Leader]

Actually, a 20 HR hitter, who plays defense and runs the bases well can become a 25-28 HR player at GABP. That is decent power. Add in the small-ball abilities of the player and alltogether you have a very potent player, and team, if the players have these qualities. The player who hits moonshots will not see as big a difference in HR production at GABP. When he hits them they're out wherever they are. So GABP can help a Twins-like gameplan more than a Boston-type one because the Twinsian team would have added power in addition to their regular offensive weapons and the Bostonian team would be playing the same game.

So what you're saying is we need more Juan Castro's and Royce Clayton's?

[REDREAD]

Seriously,

Whatever we can get for Griffey, get it, and split his salary with someone. Dunn just needs to go. He is a huge liability in the outfield and shows no willingness to learn how to hit the ball to the opposite field.

Adam's comment about why bother with batting practice really irked me. Maybe you could learn how to bunt :bang: .

Could the reds get at least a starting pitcher and an everyday outfielder for the two of them?

Isn't next year Jr's last year. I think there's a buyout for 2008.
We aren't going to be winning anything next year anyhow. There's no point in paying any part of Jr's salary if he's not on the team.

His OBP took a hit this year, but he's still very important to what's left of this offense.

Dunn certainly has his weaknesses. I'd love for him to learn to hit the ball to the opposite field in batting practice. At the same time, the Reds have to be careful. After giving away Kearns and Lopez for almost nothing, they have to get a real good return for Dunn.

[CTA513]

So what you're saying is we need more Juan Castro's and Royce Clayton's?

2 more Castros and half a Clayton.

[Red Leader]

Isn't next year Jr's last year. I think there's a buyout for 2008.
We aren't going to be winning anything next year anyhow. There's no point in paying any part of Jr's salary if he's not on the team.

His OBP took a hit this year, but he's still very important to what's left of this offense.

Dunn certainly has his weaknesses. I'd love for him to learn to hit the ball to the opposite field in batting practice. At the same time, the Reds have to be careful. After giving away Kearns and Lopez for almost nothing, they have to get a real good return for Dunn.


Griffey's contract runs through 2008. There is a 4.0M buyout for his contract in 2009 + the millions and millions in deferred money that has accumulated over the life of his contract.

[REDREAD]

RF is actually solid if Freel is there.
.


I agreed with you until this point. RF is a major weakness. Freel disappeared in August and Sept. Now that he's a full time player, teams are taking the time to scout him. They've obviously found a weakness in him, because his offense has totally disappeared. Freel at leadoff in Sept and Aug really dragged this team down. A couple good catches does not make up for that.

At bare minimum, Wayne needs to pick up an OF to share RF with Freel.

[REDREAD]

Young who?

He was an OF the White Sox were rumored to be willing to trade for Jr last year.

[Ltlabner]

At bare minimum, Wayne needs to pick up an OF to share RF with Freel.

I've noticed that people aren't too impressed with "Chuck" Norris Hopper.

IIRC, He hit pretty well in AAA and has some speed.

(I'll fully admit I'm being 100% lazy here for not doing my own research) What the line on him? Is their a flaw about him or some short comming that is causing most to seem ho-hum about him?

[flyer85]

I've noticed that people aren't too impressed with "Chuck" Norris Hopper.

IIRC, He hit pretty well in AAA and has some speed.no walks, no power(none whatsoever). Completely worthless an offensive player. To have any value as an OF he would have to hit al least .350(not).

[Red Leader]

no walks, no power(none whatsoever). Completely worthless an offensive player. To have any value as an OF he would have to hit al least .350(not).

He's Juan Pierre without the steals.

[REDREAD]

Griffey's contract runs through 2008. There is a 4.0M buyout for his contract in 2009 + the millions and millions in deferred money that has accumulated over the life of his contract.

Allen has assured us many times that the Reds have been setting aside that deferred money. So as long as Allen isn't lying, we should be off the hook after the contract is up..

thanks though, I was wrong about the length of the contract.

[flyer85]

Allen has assured us many times that the Reds have been setting aside that deferred money. So as long as Allen isn't lying, we should be off the hook after the contract is up..

thanks though, I was wrong about the length of the contract.supposedly an annutity is funded to pay Jr's deferred money.

However, for the next two years expect more injuries and decreasing production while playing CF.

[TeamBoone]

I thought Wise did a good job in CF yesterday. They were some tough catches, as were the couple he didn't quite hang on to... but he was damned close even on those.

I think you guys are being awfully hard on the minor leaguers. You're writing them off before they've even been given a half-way decent chance.

[Ltlabner]

no walks, no power(none whatsoever). Completely worthless an offensive player. To have any value as an OF he would have to hit al least .350(not).

Any minor league numbers to go with this?

[flyer85]

Any minor league numbers to go with this?you can't find any?

He has 3 HRs(.329 SLG) and ~250BBs in over 3000 minor league ABs. He is an offensive black hole. If he played SS we would be comparing him to Clayton and Castro.

[flyer85]

I think you guys are being awfully hard on the minor leaguers. You're writing them off before they've even been given a half-way decent chance.Wise has had a number of chances at the MLB level ... and has failed miserably. A barely over 600 OPS in over 300 MLB ABs and at 28 is unlikely to improve much.

[TeamBoone]

Wise has had a number of chances at the MLB level ... and has failed miserably. A barely over 600 OPS in over 300 MLB ABs and at 28 is unlikely to improve much.


I'm talking a decent amount of consistent playing time at the MLB level... not hit or miss starts and being double-switched into games or pinch hitting. There are a lot of MLBers who would not have succeeded under those circumstances. They need to be given a solid chance.

[flyer85]

I'm talking a decent amount of consistent playing time at the MLB level.That .700 OPS at the minor league level says he doesn't deserve consistent PT at the major league level.

There is nothing in his resume to suggest he would even be replacement level.

[Ltlabner]

you can't find any?

Geez...sorry I asked.

[flyer85]

Geez...sorry I asked.Let's see, you admit you to not doing the research, ask about a guy and then when someone points as he has serious fleas you want numbers provided. That redefines lazy. :laugh:

[redsupport]

Hes garbarge a hybrid of Ed Armbrister mixed in with Cecil Espy, Gary Varsho and Cesar hernandez

[Ltlabner]

Let's see, you admit you to not doing the research, ask about a guy and then when someone points as he has serious fleas you want numbers provided. That redefines lazy. :laugh:

I said I was being lazy from the get go because I don't have the time to do it right now. I wanted to expand my knowledge a bit because I wasn't sure of his history.

Yea, I wanted to know the stats behind the story. You know, wanted to expand my understanding with some facts......

I did a cursery search on reds.com but they only have his MLB numbers.

Thought I'd ask for help from the super friendly folks here on RZ.

What a mistake on my part! :rolleyes:

[flyer85]

Thought I'd ask for help from the super friendly folks here on RZ. and you got it and it could have stopped there.

However, when the information did not fit your preconceived notion, you wanted to see the data that you were to admittedly to lazy to look up.

[Ltlabner]

and you got it and it could have stopped there.

However, when the information did not fit your preconceived notion, you wanted to see the data that you were to admittedly to lazy to look up.

Wow...I really have no idea where you are comming from. You must be too used to all the arguing on RZ.

I asked the question because I actaully wanted to know the information. And I wanted some stats to go with the general statement "he has no power". Silly me for wanting to know the whole picture.

There was no argument or preconceved notion on my part. I actaully wanted to know the information and thought someone here could be helpfull to that end.

Silly me for daring to ask a question.

[flyer85]

I asked the question because I actaully wanted to know the information. and you got the information.

Since you didn't want to do the research when why not be willing to take what someone else posts on the subject at face value?

[redsupport]

dont be so contentious little abner it belies your nom de plume, stick to asking insouciant questions

[Ltlabner]

and you got the information.

Since you didn't want to do the research when why not be willing to take what someone else posts on the subject at face value?

Uh....I did take it at face value.

I wanted to expand that general statement with some numbers.

Because the next time I posted "hopper has no power" and someone asked me why I said that a reply of "Because Ricardo Cabesa said so" would make me look pretty stupid.

I was just looking for more data. If you didn't want to take the time to help me out a simple "look it up yourself" or ignoring the post alltogther would have sufficed.

[Patrick Bateman]

I did a cursery search on reds.com but they only have his MLB numbers.



Here's a good site for a guy's baseball career from college to majors so that you wont get trapped into another debate like this one:

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/

[Ltlabner]

Here's a good site for a guy's baseball career from college to majors so that you wont get trapped into another debate like this one:

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/

Thanks much!

I do so enjoy a free flow of information.

[flyer85]

Uh....I did take it at face value.

I wanted to expand that general statement with some numbers.
if you were willing to take it at face value you wouldn't have needed any numbers.

[Ltlabner]

if you were willing to take it at face value you wouldn't have needed any numbers.

For the first time in recorded history a RZ member is being chastised for actually wanting to know the stats behind a players performance.

[Highlifeman21]

Maybe, but now is not the time. Hang on to him until another pennant chase heats up next year and the Reds can acquire fair value. His ceiling would be much higher in the AL. Give the farm system a little time and this will be a solid ball club.

Myth.

In the AL, he'd be a DH. How does that make his ceiling be much higher?

Truth.

Hang onto Adam Dunn, the most important player in our franchise/organization.

[jnwohio]

I agreed with you until this point. RF is a major weakness. Freel disappeared in August and Sept. Now that he's a full time player, teams are taking the time to scout him. They've obviously found a weakness in him, because his offense has totally disappeared. Freel at leadoff in Sept and Aug really dragged this team down. A couple good catches does not make up for that.

At bare minimum, Wayne needs to pick up an OF to share RF with Freel.


Is it that the opposition has him scouted better or thet he has been rode hard and stabled wet as the saying goes? Or maybe a combination of the two?

One of Sparky Anderson's favorite sayings was that if you play a utility man often enough he will remind you why he is a utility man. Now I think Freel played long enoiugh and well enough this year and last to prove he is not an ordinary utility man but I think he also has shown in the last mointh to 6 weeks he is not an every day of the week guy over a several month period.

I think ideally you would start him 4 days a week and spot him either ofensively or defensively during the game the other days.


To my way of thinking a lot of what has happened in the last 3 weeks as the wheels fell off is that the Reds had too many guys they have had to or chosen to use too much and it has caught up to them.

[mth123]

Is it that the opposition has him scouted better or thet he has been rode hard and stabled wet as the saying goes? Or maybe a combination of the two?

One of Sparky Anderson's favorite sayings was that if you play a utility man often enough he will remind you why he is a utility man. Now I think Freel played long enoiugh and well enough this year and last to prove he is not an ordinary utility man but I think he also has shown in the last mointh to 6 weeks he is not an every day of the week guy over a several month period.

I think ideally you would start him 4 days a week and spot him either ofensively or defensively during the game the other days.


To my way of thinking a lot of what has happened in the last 3 weeks as the wheels fell off is that the Reds had too many guys they have had to or chosen to use too much and it has caught up to them.

I agree 100% with your assessment of Freel in particular and the Reds collapse in general. Same applies to Hatte who should not face lefties, Griffey who needs rest and the catchers (who haven't really played everyday). Only Rich has avoided this (on offense), but if he is brought back in too key a role next year we will see this with him as well. This team needs a solid everyday middle of the field player more than even pitching IMO. Then these other guys could perform in more suitable roles. It would have a domino effect in a good way.

[Will M]

who shouldn't play 162 games includes just about everyone except maybe Dunn & EE.

The trade of Kearns/Lopez hurt our depth but it has really shown the last few weeks as guys have just worn down.

This is particularly true for the speed guys and the old guys.

We need a better bench for 2007.

- Will

[mth123]

I'm not really in the trade Dunn camp as I have stated earlier. Here is what it would take to overwhelm me into trading Dunn.

Dunn to LA to replace Nomar (Free Agent) at 1B (Dodgers persuade $$$$ Dunn to move). Reds get Andre Ethier, Chad Billingsly, Matt Kemp and Scott Elbert. Ethier plays CF, Kemp is the 4th OF, Freel moves back to Supersub/part time 2B, Billingsly goes in as #3 starter. Money is used for a big bat to replace Dunn in LF or RF with Griffey in the other spot.


The Dodgers would never do that and that is why Dunn stays. It would take that kind of haul to make it worth trading him IMO.

[fearofpopvol1]

The thing is, Dunn will never be an elite hitter. Yes, he can drive in runs, but he'll never be elite a la a Pujols or a Carlos Lee. You have to be able to hit for a better average that Dunn does and you have to drop the strikeouts down some. I can't see Dunn ever doing that, thus, making him expendable.

[flyer85]

and you have to drop the strikeouts down some.like that Ryan Howard guy.

[pedro]

The thing is, Dunn will never be an elite hitter. Yes, he can drive in runs, but he'll never be elite a la a Pujols or a Carlos Lee. You have to be able to hit for a better average that Dunn does and you have to drop the strikeouts down some. I can't see Dunn ever doing that, thus, making him expendable.

Carlos Lee is not an elite player. Just look at his career stats. He's good and he's having a fine season but to put him in the same sentence with Pujols is wrong.

[TeamBoone]

The thing is, Dunn will never be an elite hitter. Yes, he can drive in runs, but he'll never be elite a la a Pujols or a Carlos Lee. You have to be able to hit for a better average that Dunn does and you have to drop the strikeouts down some. I can't see Dunn ever doing that, thus, making him expendable.

How do you know he'll never do that? Are you psychic? I didn't think so... you're just guessing.

He's expendable because he's not elite, even though he's in the top 5 or top 10 in several categories. I don't understand your logic at all.

Believe me, there are a whole lot of teams that would love to take this non-elite, SO-prone, low-BA player off the Reds hands.

[SultanOfSwing]

Carlos Lee is not an elite player. Just look at his career stats. He's good and he's having a fine season but to put him in the same sentence with Pujols is wrong.

Agreed 100%. Carlos is not that special of a player, and he is getting older. Lee's career-high in RBIs was 114; he has only broken 100 twice (three including this year). Dunn has already done it 3 times in a much shorter career (will be 4 after this year). Lee has never hit 40 HRs. Dunn has done it 3 consecutive years. This is Lee's career year at 30 yrs old. Dunn is having a somewhat off-year and is still clearly the better player save for BA. And Dunn is 4 years younger. And draws more walks... and scores more... and...

The only advantage Lee has is SO and AVG. Even with those he is far from elite. IMO, Dunn is pretty elite.

[blumj]

I love the conveniently timed, media created, Carlos Lee as "elite" player nonsense just as he's hitting free agency. Don't fall for it. I wouldn't trade him for Scott Podsednik, but, for Adam Dunn? In a heartbeat.

[fearofpopvol1]

How do you know he'll never do that? Are you psychic? I didn't think so... you're just guessing.

He's expendable because he's not elite, even though he's in the top 5 or top 10 in several categories. I don't understand your logic at all.

Believe me, there are a whole lot of teams that would love to take this non-elite, SO-prone, low-BA player off the Reds hands.


Ever heard the saying, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks?" That's Adam Dunn. If it changes, I will gladly eat my words.

Dunn cannot hit with runners in scoring position. Out of the top 25 home run hitters in the major league, Dunn ranks 10. Want to take a stab where he ranks for RBI's out of that 25? 21 out of 25. That's nothing special. If you want to go league wide without Home Runs, he ranks 38! 38! That's not elite.

What about Strikeouts? Leads the league. The Howard argument is weak (referring to another poster) considering he's had 14 more at bats than Dunn has and his batting average is 65 points higher. The K's are a little more excusable if you're collecting hits.

Let's look at batting average and where Dunn ranks. I'm guessing Drew Stubbs right now could be hitting better if he were in the majors.

Slugging percentage? Not in the top 100.

Defense? We won't even touch that subject.

Is Dunn a clubhouse leader? Does he have a great attitude on the field? Does he put in 100% everyday?

On the plus side, Dunn does a great job at drawing walks. He is tied for 3rd in the league. He's also high on the list for games played and has a pretty good OBP.

So I ask you, please. What are all these categories that Dunn is top 5 or top 10 in?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on Adam Dunn. He can drive the ball and he's come up big a few times this year. He's probably one of the finest Reds offensive product's in many years. My point is that he's overvalued (by some here). Through free agency, you can find a replacement for him. It won't be the same numbers and I'm sure it will be a downgrade, but you could find a free agent player that will likely have better numbers in every single category except for HR's, RBI's & walks (for less money). If he can land a top notch pitching prospect (which Dunn could fetch) while saving money, it seems like a no brainer to me. You can replace offense (to some degree) but there is NO subsitute for good pitching.

Look at the Reds this century so far and this becomes further validated...

[Degenerate39]

Where the hell will our run support come from if we even trade Griff or Dunn?

[pahster]

Slugging percentage? Not in the top 100.


Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but Dunn is ranked 21st in the NL and 38th in the majors in SLG.

[Natty Redlocks]

Where the hell will our run support come from if we even trade Griff or Dunn?

Where the hell is our run support right now, when we need it? Face it, Griffey/ Dunn as an offensive core is a losing combination and not worth the money.

[Jr's Boy]

[QUOTE=Ltlabner;1160789]I've noticed that people aren't too impressed with "Chuck" Norris Hopper.

LOL!Good one

[cReds1]

Now we are talking, my kind of thread. Where do you think Dunn learned all of his tricks? Lazy outfielder, don't need to take extra batting practice, don't care about who the opposing pitcher is, etc....

Uh, Junior his buddy is where he learned all of this. Junior since 2003 has only played in 8 games in the month of September/October. What does this tell you? Well, we are horrible, but Junior packs his bags and goes home early and takes his cash with him.

Do you remember what Dunn and Junior did during the All-Star Break? Anyone? Vern? Uh, I believe it was a trip to the Bahamas, but who needs to work on their game, right, or were they working on their golf game.

http://flashwarner.com/2006/06/griffey_has_choice_allstar_game_or_vacation_with_a dam_dunn.html

Do these guys really love baseball anymore? I mean, I don't really blame Junior all that much as I blame the Reds Front Office for bringing him here when they knew he was on the down side. Yea, he had injuries, but that comes with age and playing CF his whole career. Should you not expect this in this game?

All I have to say is, we will get our real Reds back in 2009!

[TeamBoone]

All Star BREAK = BREAK! Get it? The players that don't get to play get to take a break. 162 games is a grind... you take a break any time you can. You get every weekend off from your job (I don't know, maybe you do work an occasional weekend... no big deal, so did I); that's a long time to go with only a day or two off each month... they don't get the holidays either. Do you work on your days off?

Griffey already has the reputation of showing up at the ballpark several hours early before EVERY SINGLE GAME! So don't give me that. And I suppose the extensive, exhaustive rehab that he's gone through on multiple occasions is the sign of a lazy player and one that doesn't care about baseball. He's nothing but a good example.

People that spew this kind of stuff make me sick.... you need to check this stuff out before flouting your lack of knowledge.

[pedro]

Now we are talking, my kind of thread. Where do you think Dunn learned all of his tricks? Lazy outfielder, don't need to take extra batting practice, don't care about who the opposing pitcher is, etc....

Uh, Junior his buddy is where he learned all of this. Junior since 2003 has only played in 8 games in the month of September/October. What does this tell you? Well, we are horrible, but Junior packs his bags and goes home early and takes his cash with him.

Do you remember what Dunn and Junior did during the All-Star Break? Anyone? Vern? Uh, I believe it was a trip to the Bahamas, but who needs to work on their game, right, or were they working on their golf game.

http://flashwarner.com/2006/06/griffey_has_choice_allstar_game_or_vacation_with_a dam_dunn.html

Do these guys really love baseball anymore? I mean, I don't really blame Junior all that much as I blame the Reds Front Office for bringing him here when they knew he was on the down side. Yea, he had injuries, but that comes with age and playing CF his whole career. Should you not expect this in this game?

All I have to say is, we will get our real Reds back in 2009!


That's some first rate commentary.

[fearofpopvol1]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but Dunn is ranked 21st in the NL and 38th in the majors in SLG.

You're correct as I made a mistake. I was not factoring in players who had lower numbers of at-bats.

I still stand by all my other points (which I think are more important than this one).

[cReds1]

All Star BREAK = BREAK! Get it? The players that don't get to play get to take a break. 162 games is a grind... you take a break any time you can. You get every weekend off from your job (I don't know, maybe you do work an occasional weekend... no big deal, so did I); that's a long time to go with only a day or two off each month... they don't get the holidays either. Do you work on your days off?

Griffey already has the reputation of showing up at the ballpark several hours early before EVERY SINGLE GAME! So don't give me that. And I suppose the extensive, exhaustive rehab that he's gone through on multiple occasions is the sign of a lazy player and one that doesn't care about baseball. He's nothing but a good example.

People that spew this kind of stuff make me sick.... you need to check this stuff out before flouting your lack of knowledge.

You seem to forget how long of a FRICKIN BREAK these players get in the off season, well, the Reds starts immediately after the first week of October and ole bright one, can you tell us all how long of a FRICKIN BREAK they get?

Um, is it not like almost 6 FRICKIN MONTHS? Oh, I am sure you have a blind eye to these months. How many JOBS do you know get half of the year off? Tell us all! What should make you sick is watching Junior and Dunn play? It is a comical routine! What is a problem with fans like you is you will never see the light. You only see what you want to see. Add up all the MINUTES these players actually play. Add them up! Tell us how many minutes they work at their JOB. Does it add up to 8 hours a day?

Keep sticking up for the Junior one, and it will be like the same with you and the others on here. At one time you were sticking up for boy wonder LaRue and now everyone wants him shipped and gone. LOL Many said he was worthless along time ago, but once again fans like you stick up for these types of players.

My lack of knowledge? LOL Good One! What kind of knowledge do you have Nostradamus?

[cReds1]

That's some first rate commentary.

The Comedy routine is on the field, you have witnessed it for years. Enjoy....

[TeamBoone]

You seem to forget how long of a FRICKIN BREAK these players get in the off season, well, the Reds starts immediately after the first week of October and ole bright one, can you tell us all how long of a FRICKIN BREAK they get?

Um, is it not like almost 6 FRICKIN MONTHS? Oh, I am sure you have a blind eye to these months. How many JOBS do you know get half of the year off? Tell us all! What should make you sick is watching Junior and Dunn play? It is a comical routine! What is a problem with fans like you is you will never see the light. You only see what you want to see. Add up all the MINUTES these players actually play. Add them up! Tell us how many minutes they work at their JOB. Does it add up to 8 hours a day?

Keep sticking up for the Junior one, and it will be like the same with you and the others on here. At one time you were sticking up for boy wonder LaRue and now everyone wants him shipped and gone. LOL Many said he was worthless along time ago, but once again fans like you stick up for these types of players.

My lack of knowledge? LOL Good One! What kind of knowledge do you have Nostradamus?

Ole bright one? Nostradamus? Fans like me? I don't appreciate any of that crap. But yes, I can tell you how much of a FRICKIN' BREAK they get! So could you if you took the time to figure it out. So try to stick with me here while I explain it to you.

A calendar year typically has 52/53 weekends... 104/106 days which translates to about 3.5 months; add another 10-12 holidays that most of America's work force gets off in a year and a MINIMUM of 2 weeks' vacation (tons of people get even more), and the ante is upped to a typical American receiving roughly 4.5 months off during the year (5 if they get 4 weeks' vacation), the difference being they just do not get it off consecutively.

The "break" after the season is over has NOTHING to do with needing a 3-day midseason break. Most players arrive at spring training in mid February... pitchers and catchers must arrive then but many others report early. They play and/or practice daily (except for one or two days each month) for 7.5 months! Make it 8.5 if they get to the postseason. That does NOT add up to "6 FRICKIN' months" off! So, if they don't make it to the offseason, they get about 4.5 to 5 months off (hack off one more month if they make it to the postseason)... no more time off than the typical American worker, less if they get to the postseason.

Believe it or not, just because they make a lot of money it does not automatically turn them into robots. They are human beings; when a year's work schedule is condensed into 7.5/8.5 months, they are bound to get tired and perhaps a little burned out on occasion. That three-day break is well deserved. The season is a grind, even when they are winning.

In addition, just because they're not playing the game 8 hours per day does not mean they aren't at the park working on their game 8 hours per day. IIRC, they are required to arrive by 3 pm for a 7 pm game (4 hours prior to night games/3 hours prior to day games). I also doubt they're out of the clubhouse earlier than an hour after the game... probably longer. So yes, it does add up to about 8 hours a day... longer if they get to the park early (before 3) or the game goes into extra innings.



BTW, I'm not one of the Redszoners who wants LaRue gone. You will NEVER find that written by me on this board.

[deltachi8]

my head hurts from this thread...seriously

[pedro]

Nice post TB.

[cReds1]

Ole bright one? Nostradamus? Fans like me? I don't appreciate any of that crap. But yes, I can tell you how much of a FRICKIN' BREAK they get! So could you if you took the time to figure it out. So try to stick with me here while I explain it to you.

A calendar year typically has 52/53 weekends... 104/106 days which translates to about 3.5 months; add another 10-12 holidays that most of America's work force gets off in a year and a MINIMUM of 2 weeks' vacation (tons of people get even more), and the ante is upped to a typical American receiving roughly 4.5 months off during the year (5 if they get 4 weeks' vacation), the difference being they just do not get it off consecutively.

The "break" after the season is over has NOTHING to do with needing a 3-day midseason break. Most players arrive at spring training in mid February... pitchers and catchers must arrive then but many others report early. They play and/or practice daily (except for one or two days each month) for 7.5 months! Make it 8.5 if they get to the postseason. That does NOT add up to "6 FRICKIN' months" off! So, if they don't make it to the offseason, they get about 4.5 to 5 months off (hack off one more month if they make it to the postseason)... no more time off than the typical American worker, less if they get to the postseason.

Believe it or not, just because they make a lot of money it does not automatically turn them into robots. They are human beings; when a year's work schedule is condensed into 7.5/8.5 months, they are bound to get tired and perhaps a little burned out on occasion. That three-day break is well deserved. The season is a grind, even when they are winning.

In addition, just because they're not playing the game 8 hours per day does not mean they aren't at the park working on their game 8 hours per day. IIRC, they are required to arrive by 3 pm for a 7 pm game (4 hours prior to night games/3 hours prior to day games). I also doubt they're out of the clubhouse earlier than an hour after the game... probably longer. So yes, it does add up to about 8 hours a day... longer if they get to the park early (before 3) or the game goes into extra innings.



BTW, I'm not one of the Redszoners who wants LaRue gone. You will NEVER find that written by me on this board.


My rebuttal, so I need you to stick with me here....

Amazing how I was banned for baiting and your first post to me was not baiting? I wonder why that is? I was just stating the FACTS. You are trying to screw the FACTS to make it look better in your eyes. Of course the usual players are going to agree with you on here. That is not new.

You are skewing the numbers, the players we are talking about here show up around 21 Feb and then start workouts in a couple of days. So that right there is only 5 days in February. They actually start games in March or should I say spring training games. They also do not play every spring training game. They also get off 23 days throughout the year during regular season that are OFF DAYS.

If you add up the days off after not making the playoffs and the off days that equates to 5.5 months or 164 days. Now, this is not adding in the days they get off almost weekly or bi-weekly, well, just to get off or rest and I am sure this would come close to 6 months off after all of these days add up. Once again, what American JOB gets this type of time off?

Also, they do get around 6 months off, yea, not consecutively like you stated, but it does happen. On the time travel thing, that does not equate into the system. If that were the case each person that works and 8 hour job could possibly be working 10 hours or more a day.

The players coming in 3 hours prior to a game does not really mean they are actually playing or working out. I would say they are more than likely, maybe, stretching, taking batting practice, goofing off, signing autographs, etc... would you not agree? They are not steadily working out for 3 hours straight.

I should have said on the LaRue thing is I know you are not one of the ones that wanted LaRue gone, but you are one that stood up for him all the time and others now realize he was not worth all the money or hype that you and others so said about him. Is this not right or do you still think he is worth the money?

[joshnky]

So you get banned and then return to the same argument that got you banned?

Anyway, I wanted to comment that many of the off days during the season are spent travelling. I know that doesn't take all day but I also know that I would probably take a full day off for travel after a week long business trip. Not to mention the overnight travelling that is often requied.

I do think that baseball players and athletes have it easy but that doesn't mean they don't have an excuse for getting warn out.

[Ltlabner]

Human nature is to think your job is true hard work while many others have it easy.

That is, until you actually have to do that job. Then you quickly realize that no job is all fun and games. Every job has it's stresses, physical and psycological grinds and downsides.

[GridironGrace]

Not even gonna read this thread lol

First of all if Jr aint being delt to a team thats in WS contention at the trade deadline he's not even gonna give 2 winks about the trade and deny it!!!! Therefore odds of him going anywhere b4 retirement are like 1/1000.

As for Dunn, Im pretty sure that when the Reds Delt Lopez AND Kearns.. they pretty much set thier sights on keeping Dunn around for a VERY LONG TIME!!

Thank you.. next question lol

[registerthis]

I think this post wins the award for most uses of the word "frickin."