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Casey_21
09-28-2006, 12:13 AM
You know guys, I just got a job as a cabin cleaner at CVG. Times is hard, folks..lol. Anyway, I was fortunate enough to have the priveledge of cleaning a chartered Reds plane Monay night. My GOD!! It was a total mess. Found a 5th of vodka, 2 bottles of Tanguray, Pasquelles Pizza boxes everywhere, puke on the floor, chewing gum in the seats..lol. Too much to remember it all. It was my first night on the job. From what I heard from the people thats been there 3 plus years, they said that was CLEAN, compared to the way the Reds usually leave it. Especially when they lose the game before they get on, which they did. Apparently, food is slung everywhere, and the seat covers have been ripped off. In total, just off cleaning that plane, we got 8 bags, the size of lawn bags, worth of garbage off that plane alone. I LOVE the Reds, but this kind of made my respect for them go down a notch or two. They obviously have no consideration for the poor you know whats, that have to clean up the mess after them, thats only making 8 something an hour. Sorry guys, just had to rant about this one.

dougflynn23
09-28-2006, 12:48 AM
:evil: That's the way I leave my seat area these days in retribution to Delta making it impossible to use my frequent flyer miles on 99% of their routes, cramming people in like sardines, overbooking "Red-Eye" filghts, and (FAA...not Delta) not letting me bring my 44 oz Diet Coke on the plane in fear that I might go Macgyver on them and turn it into a bomb. Actually I'm just venting...I always clean up my trash.

macro
09-28-2006, 02:07 AM
Wow, Casey_21, what a story! And yes, it does make me lose respect for this team. I'm not the starry-eyed Reds fan that I was back in the 70s and 80s, and it actually makes their losing easier to take. Just remember, as Jerry Seinfeld said, we're rooting for the uniforms, not the individuals in them (paraphrasing). It sounds like we need some different individuals to root for.

Now, go ahead, bash away. Tell me why this shouldn't matter.

BoydsOfSummer
09-28-2006, 03:37 AM
Found a 5th of vodka, 2 bottles of Tanguray, Pasquelles Pizza boxes everywhere, puke on the floor,

Can't be our beloved Reds. Must be the pilots.

Shaggy Sanchez
09-28-2006, 04:30 AM
Found a 5th of vodka, 2 bottles of Tanguray, Pasquelles Pizza boxes everywhere, puke on the floor

And then I guess you started to clean the areas of the plane that Freel hadn't been sitting in.:D

Ron Madden
09-28-2006, 04:59 AM
Wow, Casey_21, what a story! And yes, it does make me lose respect for this team. I'm not the starry-eyed Reds fan that I was back in the 70s and 80s, and it actually makes their losing easier to take. Just remember, as Jerry Seinfeld said, we're rooting for the uniforms, not the individuals in them (paraphrasing). It sounds like we need some different individuals to root for.

Now, go ahead, bash away. Tell me why this shouldn't matter.


If we are honest with our selves all of us root for laundry.

We have seen scores of players come and go.

It is only natural for us to have our favorite players and to believe in them come what may,

In the same manner there are always players on the roster we have very little faith in.

We will always root for them ALL to succeed as long as they wear our favorite teams uniform.


P.S. When did any of us become Haters?

It seems to me anyone that questions any moves made by Wayne or Jerry are labled Reds Haters! ( nothing could be farther from the truth)

Rotater Cuff
09-28-2006, 09:41 AM
Reminds me of stories of the 86 Mets.
Sounds like Narron's fabled people skills get better the more the boys get lubed up. Maybe he learned from Davey Johnson

Johnny Footstool
09-28-2006, 10:41 AM
Personally, it doesn't matter to me if they found goat entrails, a sacrificial altar, Swedish bestiality porn, and Falco CDs on the plane. Off-field habits don't change my opinion of the Reds.

westofyou
09-28-2006, 11:17 AM
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5561&PHPSESSID=a1aaac0781c30b355a265c0b9535dd86


Joe Sheehan often says this, and better than I will, but while sports are often portrayed as being about character, there is really very little correlation between results and the way people actually are. I’ve been lucky enough to meet many players, and some are great people, the kind of guys you’d love to hang out with or date your sister. Some, well... not so much. That doesn’t mean that those guys who chase skirts, drink and smoke, or do things we’d rather our heroes not do aren’t talented. The problem is that we sometimes want to associate things with these heroes, like our guys are good, and their guys are bad. The media can color things, but not as much as you'd think--in the age of the net, not much makes it past Deadspin or its less-talented like. I’ve learned things that amaze me, seen quiet donations that would stun you, and heard rumors that would curl even my hair. In the end, though, talent wins, and talent doesn't have a character. Turning our heroes into one-dimensional value cartoons doesn't help us understand the game. Information does.

BuckWoody
09-28-2006, 01:16 PM
Personally, it doesn't matter to me if they found goat entrails, a sacrificial altar, Swedish bestiality porn, and Falco CDs on the plane. Off-field habits don't change my opinion of the Reds.
Wow, that sounds like a party at my house!

;)

MartyFan
09-28-2006, 01:23 PM
Personally, it doesn't matter to me if they found goat entrails, a sacrificial altar, Swedish bestiality porn, and Falco CDs on the plane. Off-field habits don't change my opinion of the Reds.

To each his own but I am telling you one thing. If I ever hear of a Reds player listening to FALCO and actually owning a copy of the CD or importing it to an IPOD, that is the day I know the end is near.

RBA
09-28-2006, 01:26 PM
Well, if nobody left the cabins a mess, their wouldn't be any need for someone to clean them.

Take photos of the mess next time. Maybe your employer will charge an additional cleaning service fee. That might discourage some of the mess. Doubtbul.

Jr's Boy
09-28-2006, 01:45 PM
I thought it was selfish when I was in L.A. after the Reds last game with the Dodgers when the Reds were boarding the team bus and Junior and Dunn get in a white stretch limo.I just figured that sent a holier than thou message to the rest of the team.

vaticanplum
09-28-2006, 01:48 PM
Athletes.

In real life I hate jocks. Somehow I manage to separate this from major leage baseball, God's game.

westofyou
09-28-2006, 01:49 PM
I thought it was selfish when I was in L.A. after the Reds last game with the Dodgers when the Reds were boarding the team bus and Junior and Dunn get in a white stretch limo.I just figured that sent a holier than thou message to the rest of the team.

Pete Rose never took the team bus, he was always heading out with some of his cronies.

macro
09-28-2006, 01:54 PM
Pete Rose never took the team bus, he was always heading out with some of his cronies.

Sparky always believed that certain players had earned special priviledges and deserved preferential treatment, but I don't agree with that philosophy. Then again, Sparky Anderson is a Hall of Fame manager and I'm not, so...

blumj
09-28-2006, 02:20 PM
Athletes.

In real life I hate jocks. Somehow I manage to separate this from major leage baseball, God's game.

Funny, the very first name that popped into my head when I saw the word "jocks" associated with ballplayers was Johnny Damon's, and there's definitely a part of me that enjoys having an excuse to dislike him now. I mean, clean up your own messes and don't throw things off the top of tall buildings. That's only asking for the bare minimum of growing up, right?

redsfan30
09-28-2006, 02:27 PM
There was a story similar to this in Tom Browning's book. He recalls that the team left the charter flight in HORRIBLE condition, and to make sure the players never did it again, Marge took away the charter privledge and made the team ride with the common folk in coach for a week.

He said that took care of the problem, right now.

Razor Shines
09-28-2006, 02:37 PM
You know guys, I just got a job as a cabin cleaner at CVG. Times is hard, folks..lol. Anyway, I was fortunate enough to have the priveledge of cleaning a chartered Reds plane Monay night. My GOD!! It was a total mess. Found a 5th of vodka, 2 bottles of Tanguray, Pasquelles Pizza boxes everywhere, puke on the floor, chewing gum in the seats..lol. Too much to remember it all. It was my first night on the job. From what I heard from the people thats been there 3 plus years, they said that was CLEAN, compared to the way the Reds usually leave it. Especially when they lose the game before they get on, which they did. Apparently, food is slung everywhere, and the seat covers have been ripped off. In total, just off cleaning that plane, we got 8 bags, the size of lawn bags, worth of garbage off that plane alone. I LOVE the Reds, but this kind of made my respect for them go down a notch or two. They obviously have no consideration for the poor you know whats, that have to clean up the mess after them, thats only making 8 something an hour. Sorry guys, just had to rant about this one.

I don't know how much "respect" I had for many of them anyway. I'd say most professional athletes haven't done much worthy of any of our respect, not to say that there aren't a few. But I don't need to respect a guy to root like hell that he doubles in the winning run in the 9th. Really the only athlete that all of you should respect is Peyton Manning.

I'm just messing with you, Bengals' Fans.

BuckWoody
09-28-2006, 02:48 PM
I don't know how much "respect" I had for many of them anyway. I'd say most professional athletes haven't done much worthy of any of our respect, not to say that there aren't a few. But I don't need to respect a guy to root like hell that he doubles in the winning run in the 9th. Really the only athlete that all of you should respect is Peyton Manning.

I'm just messing with you, Bengals' Fans.
Manning does seem like a really nice guy. It's a shame he can't market himself a little more. Maybe a TV commercial here and there or something like that.

:evil:

Razor Shines
09-28-2006, 02:53 PM
Manning does seem like a really nice guy. It's a shame he can't market himself a little more. Maybe a TV commercial here and there or something like that.

:evil:

I know. I keep saying that if he could just get one endorsement deal his career would take off.

Heath
09-28-2006, 02:53 PM
Manning does seem like a really nice guy. It's a shame he can't market himself a little more. Maybe a TV commercial here and there or something like that.

:evil:

Peyton Manning gets it. Bar None.

BoydsOfSummer
09-28-2006, 03:17 PM
Personally, it doesn't matter to me if they found goat entrails, a sacrificial altar, Swedish bestiality porn, and Falco CDs on the plane. Off-field habits don't change my opinion of the Reds.

Good times...good times...<sniff>

KittyDuran
09-28-2006, 03:20 PM
Athletes.

In real life I hate jocks. Somehow I manage to separate this from major leage baseball, God's game.Same here... couldn't stand them in school, barely tolerate them elsewhere. Tho' if any player on the Reds wants to put his boots under my bed....:thumbup:

KittyDuran
09-28-2006, 03:21 PM
Wow, that sounds like a party at my house!

;)What time? [only for the Falco CDs of course!] :evil:

KittyDuran
09-28-2006, 03:24 PM
Well, if nobody left the cabins a mess, their wouldn't be any need for someone to clean them.

Take photos of the mess next time. Maybe your employer will charge an additional cleaning service fee. That might discourage some of the mess. Doubtbul.Must be something like my sister throwing trash out the car and rationalizing that it gives someone a job to pick it up? ;)

Joseph
09-28-2006, 03:30 PM
Same here... couldn't stand them in school, barely tolerate them elsewhere. Tho' if any player on the Reds wants to put his boots under my bed....:thumbup:

Wait. You've got a boot polishing service?

blumj
09-28-2006, 03:46 PM
Really the only athlete that all of you should respect is Tom Brady.

Just a slight misspelling, I went ahead and fixed it for you.;)

Johnny Footstool
09-28-2006, 04:37 PM
To each his own but I am telling you one thing. If I ever hear of a Reds player listening to FALCO and actually owning a copy of the CD or importing it to an IPOD, that is the day I know the end is near.

I owned "Falco 3" AND "Emotional" on cassette. Oh, those heady days of Transformers, "The Cosby Show," and Members Only jackets.

redsfanmia
09-28-2006, 06:05 PM
Peyton Manning gets it. Bar None.

I will preface this by saying I am a Colts fan. If Peyton really "got it" he would not have signed a contract that didnt allow his team to keep Edge, Mike Peterson, David Thornton and so on.

Falls City Beer
09-28-2006, 06:34 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with Seinfeld. Athletes, like most human beings, can go bugger off as far as I'm concerned. My love of the Reds is totally conceptual.

Team Clark
09-28-2006, 07:22 PM
Found a 5th of vodka, 2 bottles of Tanguray, Pasquelles Pizza boxes everywhere, puke on the floor, chewing gum in the seats..lol.

And to think Adam only struck out three times last night!! :laugh:

(Sorry I had too)

Keystone12
09-28-2006, 11:08 PM
If Dunn turned to drink in any correllation with the number of times he strikes out in a game, he'd have to give Farney his keys.

lo ryder
09-28-2006, 11:23 PM
Cheer up Casey, I hear both GNR and Zeppelin are due in to CVG next month. Guess it could be worse. :eek:

Redlegs23
09-29-2006, 12:17 PM
I will preface this by saying I am a Colts fan. If Peyton really "got it" he would not have signed a contract that didnt allow his team to keep Edge, Mike Peterson, David Thornton and so on.

Because the Colts are struggling so bad without them. They'll be lucky to win a game this year.

danwl
09-29-2006, 01:01 PM
Athletes.

In real life I hate jocks.

C'mon now, some of them/us turned into REAL PEOPLE, just like you! :)

redsfanmia
09-29-2006, 04:05 PM
Because the Colts are struggling so bad without them. They'll be lucky to win a game this year.

One and done in the playoffs yet again.

Razor Shines
09-29-2006, 04:07 PM
I will preface this by saying I am a Colts fan. If Peyton really "got it" he would not have signed a contract that didnt allow his team to keep Edge, Mike Peterson, David Thornton and so on.

I don't blame him for getting his while he can.

Razor Shines
09-29-2006, 04:09 PM
One and done in the playoffs yet again.

Yeah that was with all of those players. Seems like you just have a problem with Peyton. We'd be better off with Jim Sorgi I guess.

Chip R
09-29-2006, 04:22 PM
Is this the football forum, guys?

Redlegs23
09-29-2006, 06:45 PM
One and done in the playoffs yet again.

Some "fan" you are.

redsfanmia
09-29-2006, 08:36 PM
Yeah that was with all of those players. Seems like you just have a problem with Peyton. We'd be better off with Jim Sorgi I guess.

Not at all, I love Peyton I just dont think that he is Mr. Perfect and could have been a "team" guy like Tom Brady and not hamstring the salary cap by taking such a huge contract. How much money does one man need?

Cicero
09-30-2006, 08:21 PM
Carson Palmer counted to infinity. Twice.

RFS62
09-30-2006, 08:46 PM
Wait. You've got a boot polishing service?

Is that what they call it now?


:evil:

Shaggy Sanchez
09-30-2006, 09:12 PM
Not at all, I love Peyton I just dont think that he is Mr. Perfect and could have been a "team" guy like Tom Brady and not hamstring the salary cap by taking such a huge contract. How much money does one man need?

Tom Brady not taking the money has really helped his cause this year as the Pats won't spend any of it and are 13 million under the cap. I don't really think that Peyton has hamstrung the organization that much, they still seem to have a pretty solid team around him.

Team Clark
09-30-2006, 11:15 PM
Is that what they call it now?


:evil:

So, what do you do if you have one of those "buffer" machines in your bathroom?:laugh:

bradmu
09-30-2006, 11:43 PM
First off, I'm still going to like the Reds no matter what they do on the plane on their personal time.

However, It is very discouraging to read stuff like this. I urge you to call into the talk shows and voice your concerns to the Reds organization directly. The more exposure this behavior gets out to the public, the worse it will look on the organization. (IE, loss of some ticket sales, merchandise, etc). I would have to assume the Reds Reds would do something to try and remedy the situation.

I mean, how hard is it to throw your bottle of Liquor in the trash? :)

Falls City Beer
09-30-2006, 11:45 PM
I mean, how hard is it to throw your bottle of Liquor in the trash? :)

How hard is it to find a barfbag on a commercial airliner? That's what I want to know.

Casey_21
10-02-2006, 11:27 PM
Cheer up Casey, I hear both GNR and Zeppelin are due in to CVG next month. Guess it could be worse. :eek:

Lol. Good thing i quit when i did. And to Falls City, i know the whole two days i was there, they rode my A** about the placing of the safety booklets and magz. Safety books first, barfbags second, as a safety procedure, (like anyone uses them) white sky books after, and brown sky books last. Sure, if theres not messes, there wouldnt be jobs.. but come on guys, ripping off seat covers? Maybe if these guys had a taste of the real life, and some consideration for those who dont make at least 250,000 a year, things may be a little different. A mess, yes... expected, but destroyed??

Yachtzee
10-02-2006, 11:42 PM
What time? [only for the Falco CDs of course!] :evil:

Rock Me Amadeus!

I'll see your Falco and raise you Nena and a Peter Schilling. ;)

Redleg75
10-03-2006, 11:02 AM
So what happened to looking like a pro and acting like one. The players are to blame but where are the coaches? The coach let's the act like slobs? It shows on the field.

REDREAD
10-03-2006, 11:29 AM
There was a story similar to this in Tom Browning's book. He recalls that the team left the charter flight in HORRIBLE condition, and to make sure the players never did it again, Marge took away the charter privledge and made the team ride with the common folk in coach for a week.

He said that took care of the problem, right now.


Great story. Marge had it right. I don't expect the Reds to be perfect angels off the field, but to trash the plane, and have food fights, etc. is just plain wrong. I feel sorry that Casey_21 (the original poster) had to put up with all that crap.

And that's just wrong to tell him/her that they should be happy that the Reds trashed the plane because it provides them with a job. The plane would have to be cleaned regardless. The Reds acting like animals and trashing the plane because they don't care that some "commoner" has to clean up their crap is inexcusable. For Gods' sake, I don't care how drunk you are, make an effort to puke in the toilet, bag, or somewhere where it doesn't make a mess for the cleaning crew to clean up.

Anyone who doesn't sympathize with the orginal poster has never had a cleaning job.. IMO, that's one of the jobs were you see the abolute worse in people.

REDREAD
10-03-2006, 11:31 AM
Same here... couldn't stand them in school, barely tolerate them elsewhere. Tho' if any player on the Reds wants to put his boots under my bed....:thumbup:

I forgot to tell you that I actually play for the Reds. I just say that I'm an engineer to hide my true identity. :laugh:

TeamBoone
10-03-2006, 02:31 PM
The Reds acting like animals and trashing the plane because they don't care that some "commoner" has to clean up their crap is inexcusable.

Believe me, I'm not defending the individuals who trashed the plan (and tore the seat covers, which I find the most disgusting of all... destroying property), but I truly doubt any of the responsible parties were thinking this.

I too wonder where those in charge were while all this destruction was taking place... and do they do this on every road trip or was this out of character? Was it the entire plane or just a small section. And doesn't the media share the charter as well?

Something to ponder, but it really doesn't bode well for grown men.... though I'm sure it wasn't everybody.

Ltlabner
10-03-2006, 02:58 PM
I forgot to tell you that I actually play for the Reds. I just say that I'm an engineer to hide my true identity. :laugh:

You are an engineer? I would have never guessed....you are passionate, have personality and communicate with the outside world! How can this be? :)


Believe me, I'm not defending the individuals who trashed the plan (and tore the seat covers, which I find the most disgusting of all... destroying property), but I truly doubt any of the responsible parties were thinking this.

I too wonder where those in charge were while all this destruction was taking place... and do they do this on every road trip or was this out of character? Was it the entire plane or just a small section. And doesn't the media share the charter as well?

Something to ponder, but it really doesn't bode well for grown men.... though I'm sure it wasn't everybody.

I haven't read the entire thread (yes, I am lazy) but I guess we are taking this report at face value as being true? Before we impugne the entire team and organization, shouldn't we have some sort of varification besides one post on an internet forum?

Or has this happened a bunch of times over the years so it fits the pattern ?

Cedric
10-03-2006, 03:13 PM
I'm not shocked by bad behavior with baseball players. Generally these guys are spoiled rotten growing up and treated like royalty thereafter. I was on the field for picture day a few years back and saw some incredibly immature and disgusting gestures from players.

REDREAD
10-03-2006, 05:18 PM
You are an engineer? I would have never guessed....you are passionate, have personality and communicate with the outside world! How can this be? :)

I'm a special breed :lol:





I haven't read the entire thread (yes, I am lazy) but I guess we are taking this report at face value as being true?

I believe the OP, there's been no indication that he/she has ever trolled in the other 300+ posts he/she has made. If this is fabricated, they are the best troll ever, to register, make 300+ posts, wait a year and a half, and then invent something this creative to soil the good name of the Reds.

I'm stereotyping, but this behavior seems very consistent with spoiled, wealthy young men who have never had to pick up after themselves and have been worshipped like gods since they were 8 years old, simply because they have the ability to do things to a little ball.

Someone asked why the plane crew didn't say anything? Well, they probably didn't want to lose the business with the Reds. It's easier for the crew to just let the Reds have their party/food fight. After all, the flight crew aren't the ones that have to clean it up. Also, I imagine it could be a bit intimidating trying to control a bunch of kindergardeners that are in adult bodies (and drunk).

vaticanplum
10-03-2006, 05:26 PM
Believe me, I'm not defending the individuals who trashed the plan (and tore the seat covers, which I find the most disgusting of all... destroying property), but I truly doubt any of the responsible parties were thinking this.

Well, I think that's kind of the point. They should be thinking about those who have to clean up after them.

I suspect this story is not an anamoly, which is why I don't doubt its truth.

Ltlabner
10-03-2006, 05:32 PM
It's not hard for me to imagine the team leaving a plane dirty and messy. Not hard at all considering the generally spoiled nature of ball players. No argument there.

But the level of distruction described just seems over the top to me. If this happened on any sort of regularity, I have no doubts the folks at Delta would be on the phone to the Reds. At the very least there would be additional charges for cleaning, repairs, etc. Delta would have no reason whatsoever to cower to the Reds.

But for this level of distruction to happen with any regularlity (in today's media saturated society where if a celeb breaks wind we hear about it) I would think we'd hear about it happening more often than we do.

REDREAD
10-03-2006, 05:55 PM
But the level of distruction described just seems over the top to me. If this happened on any sort of regularity, I have no doubts the folks at Delta would be on the phone to the Reds. At the very least there would be additional charges for cleaning, repairs, etc. Delta would have no reason whatsoever to cower to the Reds.
.

Whoever does their charter flight probably already factors in a fudge factor to cover damage and additional cleaning time. Obviously, the airline would stop flying them if it was no longer profitable.

KittyDuran
10-03-2006, 05:55 PM
Rock Me Amadeus!

I'll see your Falco and raise you Nena and a Peter Schilling. ;)Only if Nena shaved [her underarms]...:p:

TeamBoone
10-04-2006, 02:35 AM
Someone asked why the plane crew didn't say anything?

I think you're referring to me, but when I referred to "people in charge", I was not referencing the airline... I was referring to the manager and possibly the GM, if he happened to be traveling with them (though I doubt they'd be so unruly if the GM was on board). I'd think the manager would address such nonsense though.


I'm stereotyping, but this behavior seems very consistent with spoiled, wealthy young men who have never had to pick up after themselves and have been worshipped like gods since they were 8 years old, simply because they have the ability to do things to a little ball.


Generally these guys are spoiled rotten growing up and treated like royalty thereafter.

I disagree that most athletes were spoiled growing up... many of them come from third-world countries and/or poor families, with their baseball prowess being the only thing that gave them a half-way decent chance at a better life... not only for themselves but for their familes as well. There are also many who come from the average middle class family, like most of you and certainly me (and I certainly wasn't brought up that way). Agreed, some can be described as you said, but I think they are the minority rather than the majority.


Before we impugne the entire team and organization, shouldn't we have some sort of varification besides one post on an internet forum?

This comes from a poster who's earned our trust and actually works for the airline... not from a new poster who has not yet gained the respect and trust of the board or from one who heard this from a "source" or as gossip.

REDREAD
10-04-2006, 11:20 AM
I think you're referring to me, but when I referred to "people in charge", I was not referencing the airline... I was referring to the manager and possibly the GM, if he happened to be traveling with them (though I doubt they'd be so unruly if the GM was on board). I'd think the manager would address such nonsense though.

My guess is that Narron feels like it's not his job to be a babysitter either.
These guys are mostly in the 25-40 age range. They should have outgrown food fights and destroying property (ripping seat covers). Obviously they haven't. In fairness to Miley, what authority does he really have in a matter like this? I guess he could bench players for bad behavior off the field, but then the fans (and maybe Wayne) would have a fit because they want to see the best talent on the field. For example, if either Harang or Arroyo was acting up and Narron skipped their next start, I don't imagine that would go over well. Someone at Marge's level could punish the team (as the other poster described), but Narron's hands are kind of tied. I certainly wouldn't want to be in the position where I have to tell 30 year old men to act like adults (especially if I had no really authority).






I disagree that most athletes were spoiled growing up... many of them come from third-world countries and/or poor families, with their baseball prowess being the only thing that gave them a half-way decent chance at a better life...

Maybe spoiled is the wrong word. That implies they got a lot of material things. Let me say this is all my opinion... I meant to say that someone like Kearns who is blessed with incredible baseball skills gets put on a pedestal and told he is a god his entire life. I remember a story where after Kearns' first couple games of T-bat, they moved him up to the next level because he was so big and strong, they were scared he was going to hurt the other kids. So this guy grew up as a man among boys. He was worshiped his entire life. Things came easy. A lot of these athletes (at least in the US) get special treatment in high school/college, etc.. Part of that special treatment is that they don't get the same level of discipline that a normal kid gets. Thus, a lot of them never really mature as normal adults do. They are kind of like rock stars, they never really mature past 15 years old, because they don't have to. The plane trip is a classic example. I'm sure if any of us got way too drunk on a plane and started causing mischief, our employer would be upset and possibly fire us because we are viewed as replacable commodities. I actually knew 2 people at another company that got excessively drunk on a business flight and got too affectionate on the plane, made a scene, and ended up getting fired. A pro baseball player could probably get away with that because they are not easily replacable parts. Look at Freel with his DUIs, look at Lugo -- he has a domestic violence history and now this offseason he's going to be one of the most sought after Middle Infielders.
Look at that pro basketball player that fought his coach PJ Carlismo.. I forget his name, but he's still playing. These guys can get away with just about anything. They know it and many take advantage of it.

KittyDuran
10-04-2006, 11:46 AM
In fairness to Miley, what authority does he really have in a matter like this? I assumed you meant Narron... but I thought you were going to bring up the chairs...as in your avatar...;)

RedsManRick
10-04-2006, 12:23 PM
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

westofyou
10-04-2006, 12:27 PM
“Buy the rumor and sell the fact”

REDREAD
10-04-2006, 01:51 PM
I assumed you meant Narron... but I thought you were going to bring up the chairs...as in your avatar...;)


Yeah, I meant Narron.. I don't know why I was thinking of Miley..

TeamBoone
10-04-2006, 02:17 PM
I don't call it babysitting. IMHO, it's within Narron's realm of responsibility to at least attempt to step up when he's "in the room" with players that are tearing up said room. Remind them that they should act like adults both on and off the field. Should he really just sit there and watch them rip the place to shreds?

texasdave
10-04-2006, 02:56 PM
I work at the Westin Hotel in Houston where a number of the Major League teams stay and i can attest to the fact that hotel rooms receive the same treatment as the above mentioned charter plane. It is not an uncommon occurrence. There is no point in naming names but I will say that it tends to happen in the rooms of the same few players over and over. Probably because it is confined to a room instead of in an open cabin space. Boys being boys, some players who normally wouldn't act that way on their own are likely to be drawn into such shenanigans in a group setting.

REDREAD
10-05-2006, 01:55 PM
I don't call it babysitting. IMHO, it's within Narron's realm of responsibility to at least attempt to step up when he's "in the room" with players that are tearing up said room. Remind them that they should act like adults both on and off the field. Should he really just sit there and watch them rip the place to shreds?


I do agree with you. Narron should've said something. Heck, I'd expect the older players to say something. If my company had a function and I saw coworkers destroying property and puking all over the place, I'd say something.

Sadly, most people have the "it's not my job attitude".. Should've been clearer in my post. I agree with you that something SHOULD have been said, but being the cynical person I am, I'm not surprised that no one did.

REDREAD
10-05-2006, 01:56 PM
There is no point in naming names but I will say that it tends to happen in the rooms of the same few players over and over. .


Sure, there's a point in naming names. We love dirt :laugh:

Wheelhouse
10-06-2006, 06:22 PM
I emailed Hal McCoy and the Reds regarding this. Disgusting.

919191
10-07-2006, 09:03 AM
I remember reading a story years ago about rock bands trashing hotels. The bands mentioned were Fleetwood Mac and Skynyrd. Some hotels refused to book them, but one hotel manager loved booking them- he said the fees levied on the bands were always more than the cost of the repairs and the extra money went into the bottom line for profit.

cReds1
10-07-2006, 12:05 PM
You know guys, I just got a job as a cabin cleaner at CVG. Times is hard, folks..lol. Anyway, I was fortunate enough to have the priveledge of cleaning a chartered Reds plane Monay night. My GOD!! It was a total mess. Found a 5th of vodka, 2 bottles of Tanguray, Pasquelles Pizza boxes everywhere, puke on the floor, chewing gum in the seats..lol. Too much to remember it all. It was my first night on the job. From what I heard from the people thats been there 3 plus years, they said that was CLEAN, compared to the way the Reds usually leave it. Especially when they lose the game before they get on, which they did. Apparently, food is slung everywhere, and the seat covers have been ripped off. In total, just off cleaning that plane, we got 8 bags, the size of lawn bags, worth of garbage off that plane alone. I LOVE the Reds, but this kind of made my respect for them go down a notch or two. They obviously have no consideration for the poor you know whats, that have to clean up the mess after them, thats only making 8 something an hour. Sorry guys, just had to rant about this one.

Casey check your PMs. Thanks!

jimbo
10-07-2006, 12:15 PM
I take anything read on a messageboard with a grain of salt. None of us really knows if this is even an accurate story.

WMR
10-07-2006, 04:16 PM
I do agree with you. Narron should've said something. Heck, I'd expect the older players to say something. If my company had a function and I saw coworkers destroying property and puking all over the place, I'd say something.

Sadly, most people have the "it's not my job attitude".. Should've been clearer in my post. I agree with you that something SHOULD have been said, but being the cynical person I am, I'm not surprised that no one did.

Skip: You guys. You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you? Larry!
Larry: Lollygaggers!
Skip: Lollygaggers

WMR
10-07-2006, 04:18 PM
Yeah let's doubt this story because the notion of a bunch of professional ballplayers getting piss drunk and acting like a bunch of monkeys is so far out of the realm of possibility. sheesh.

jimbo
10-07-2006, 04:29 PM
Yeah let's doubt this story because the notion of a bunch of professional ballplayers getting piss drunk and acting like a bunch of monkeys is so far out of the realm of possibility. sheesh.

If this is in response to me, I never doubted it because the notion is "out of the realm of possibility." I doubted it because it was posted by someone on a messageboard of whom most of us do not know the identity of or the credibility of. This is of no disrespect to the original poster, but I consider it a pretty good rule of thumb to not always believe what I read when it comes to forums such as this. I'm not claiming the story is false, I just have my doubts about it when considering the source (i.e. a messageboard).

WMR
10-07-2006, 05:03 PM
If this is in response to me, I never doubted it because the notion is "out of the realm of possibility." I doubted it because it was posted by someone on a messageboard of whom most of us do not know the identity of or the credibility of. This is of no disrespect to the original poster, but I consider it a pretty good rule of thumb to not always believe what I read when it comes to forums such as this. I'm not claiming the story is false, I just have my doubts about it when considering the source (i.e. a messageboard).

Wasn't questioning you personally, Jim.

Wheelhouse
10-08-2006, 03:35 PM
From McCoy regarding my email:

I never visit RedsZone. There is so much bull on there, mostly made-up stuff that is posted just to get a rise. Beat writers don't travel with the team. The tip-off to me is the Pasquale's Pizza boxes. Where in hell would that come from. They wouldn't bring it on board. They are served gourmet meals, usually steak, on those charter flights. Pasquale's Pizza? C'mon.

******

All I have to say is: If Hal is so averse to "bull" maybe he should stay away from some of his "sources."

Wheelhouse
10-08-2006, 03:54 PM
My response:

I understand your suspicion Hal, but I think you should maybe take another look at RedsZone. They have thorough moderators and now have a point system whereby muckraking posters are filtered out. The board is composed, for the most part, of very serious fans, some journalists and media types, and a few former players. If a beat writer has a meaningful blog entry it almost instantaneously appears on RedZone, in addition to Reds related stories from publications and media outlets throughout the country. There are many statistics experts (though I'm not a stats-oriented guy) as well as old-fashioned bread-and-butter fans.

As far as the post I sent you, it was posted by a guy who is not on the main board (not enough points yet), but who has made enough substantial posts to be trusted by the board. And I can see players preferring pizza to Duck L'Orange or whatever gourmet offerings the caterers might serve up. They're kids.

TeamBoone
10-09-2006, 01:28 AM
Excellent resonse, WH.

It irks me that he trashed Redszone and labeled it as bull when he says he never visits here. How then would he know that? I more think he's mixing it up with some of the other Reds boards... or he just thinks they're all the same without bothering to check it out before he opens his mouth.

Strange that he doesn't travel with the team, but knows what they eat.

Also strange that he doesn't visit RZ because of the bull but many others in the Reds organization do.

How ironic! (and pompous)

WMR
10-09-2006, 01:44 AM
he just thinks they're all the same without bothering to check it out before he opens his mouth.

Why would he start checking things out at this point? :laugh:

REDREAD
10-09-2006, 09:22 AM
From McCoy regarding my email:

I never visit RedsZone. There is so much bull on there, mostly made-up stuff that is posted just to get a rise.

I like Hal, but one has to remember that some posters in the past have emailed him (identifying themselves as RedsZoners) and gotten him mad.
So he's going to be predisposed into automatically thinking anything on here is false.

EDIT: saw your response Wheelhouse. It's not going to change his mind. I can't remember exactly what was said to Hal, but it was along the lines of questioning his skills, etc and was pretty insulting. Don't think you'll get him to change his mind.

tsj017
10-09-2006, 02:43 PM
From McCoy regarding my email:

I never visit RedsZone. There is so much bull on there, mostly made-up stuff that is posted just to get a rise. Beat writers don't travel with the team. The tip-off to me is the Pasquale's Pizza boxes. Where in hell would that come from. They wouldn't bring it on board. They are served gourmet meals, usually steak, on those charter flights. Pasquale's Pizza? C'mon.

******

All I have to say is: If Hal is so averse to "bull" maybe he should stay away from some of his "sources."

Wasn't it RedsZone that reported last year on the hiring of Jim Beattie as Reds GM?

Let's try a little rewording:


I never read Hal's columns. There is so much bull on there, mostly made-up stuff that is posted just to get a rise.

Yeah, that's better!