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View Full Version : Aaron Harang: how good is this?



EKURed
09-30-2006, 03:37 AM
From the "Elias Says" blurb on the espn.com game recap:

Cincinnati's Aaron Harang had a complete-game win with no walks and nine strikeouts against the Cubs last Sunday and repeated that feat Friday night in Pittsburgh, going the distance for the win without walking a batter while striking out nine.

Harang was the first major league pitcher to post consecutive complete-game victories with no walks and at least nine strikeouts in each game since Randy Johnson turned the trick for Arizona in 2000 and just the fifth to do so over the last 20 years. The others were David Wells (1998 Yankees), Curt Schilling (1996 Phillies) and Terry Mulholland (1993 Phillies).

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=260929123

dman
09-30-2006, 07:23 AM
Earlier in the season there was a thread regarding Arroyo for the Cy Young. Even though the Reds may not make the playoffs, is there a legitimate shot of Harang getting considered? He's either leading or among the league leaders in several categories.

mth123
09-30-2006, 07:48 AM
Earlier in the season there was a thread regarding Arroyo for the Cy Young. Even though the Reds may not make the playoffs, is there a legitimate shot of Harang getting considered? He's either leading or among the league leaders in several categories.

I think Harang should be on the Short List for the CY award. I think Cincy won't get the respect from the voters for he or Arroyo to get serious consideration. They also split any votes that do go Cincy's way. Any other team have two pitchers that should be on the list?

I think Oswalt wins or maybe Trevor Hoffman. With no 20 game winner (I know wins are not the best stat but we're talking voter behavior here) this is the kind of season for a reliever to win.

Falls City Beer
09-30-2006, 10:35 AM
If Chris Carpenter doesn't win the Cy Young this year, they should throw the prize away. He kept winning when every other "ace" was exploding in August and September. And his numbers are very, very good.

Cedric
09-30-2006, 11:25 AM
If Chris Carpenter doesn't win the Cy Young this year, they should throw the prize away. He kept winning when every other "ace" was exploding in August and September. And his numbers are very, very good.

His last two starts he has given up 12 runs in 15 innings. Sounds like exploding at the worst time to me.

OnBaseMachine
09-30-2006, 11:27 AM
If Chris Carpenter doesn't win the Cy Young this year, they should throw the prize away. He kept winning when every other "ace" was exploding in August and September. And his numbers are very, very good.

Chris Carpenter choked when his team needed him the most - his last two starts:

9/21 at HOU: 8 IP, 9 H, 6 R

9/26 vs SD: 7 IP, 12 H, 6 R

Brandon Webb, Roy Oswalt, Carlos Zambrano, and even Bronson Arroyo are just as, if not more deserving of the Cy Young award than Carpenter.

EKURed
09-30-2006, 11:38 AM
Oh I definitely agree. Carpenter doesn't deserve it this year. Last year, yes. But certainly not this year...

Hap
09-30-2006, 11:40 AM
If I had a vote, I would go Brandon Webb, Aaron Harang, Chris Carpenter.

blumj
09-30-2006, 11:45 AM
A dozen different pitchers really could wind up getting 1st place votes. I'm glad I don't have to choose. At least the AL pick couldn't be easier. Now, if they screw that one up again, they really should just give up.

Falls City Beer
09-30-2006, 12:07 PM
His last two starts he has given up 12 runs in 15 innings. Sounds like exploding at the worst time to me.

Define "worst." The fact is, starts in August and earlier in September are just as important as the last two; don't confuse timing with small samples. Carpenter was a rock when the Reds' pitchers were taking 45 day vacations from effectiveness. And Oswalt would be WAY down on my Cy list this year; numbers are down considerably. Webb is really the only competition for Carpenter, but since Carpenter plays for the better team, I'd go with him in the tie-breaker.

Falls City Beer
09-30-2006, 12:15 PM
Harang and Arroyo are clearly on a tier below guys like Carpenter and Webb. Just be honest with yourselves, folks. I'm not saying a younger guy like Harang won't in the future have a couple of seasons that are as good as Carpenter's last two, but he's really not there yet.

Cedric
09-30-2006, 12:53 PM
Harang and Arroyo are clearly on a tier below guys like Carpenter and Webb. Just be honest with yourselves, folks. I'm not saying a younger guy like Harang won't in the future have a couple of seasons that are as good as Carpenter's last two, but he's really not there yet.

Are we talking about tiers here? We are talking about this season only and Arroyo had a year VERY comparable to Carpenter.

Add in park factor and you got almost a dead heat.

Blimpie
09-30-2006, 02:05 PM
If Chris Carpenter doesn't win the Cy Young this year, they should throw the prize away. He kept winning when every other "ace" was exploding in August and September. And his numbers are very, very good.Brandon Webb just drove off a cliff....

RedsManRick
09-30-2006, 02:10 PM
None of the guys in the NL is clearly superior this year. There are about 5 guys who will probably receive 1st place votes including Carp, Webb, Arroyo, Oswalt, and Zambrano. I'd say that the 2nd tier has about 2x that many guys with Harang, Lowe, Schmidt, and Smoltz leading the way.

If I had to guess, I think it will end up like this:
1.) Webb
2.) Carpenter
3.) Oswalt
4.) Arroyo
5.) Zambrano

Superdude
09-30-2006, 02:14 PM
Does anyone know where to find DIPS ERA's? Seems like Harang's ERA should be better than it is considering he has good command and is leading the league in K's.

Falls City Beer
09-30-2006, 02:15 PM
Does anyone know where to find DIPS ERA's? Seems like Harang's ERA should be better than it is considering he has good command and is leading the league in K's.

He surrenders a lot of longballs, though.

HumnHilghtFreel
09-30-2006, 02:18 PM
I'm probably biased because he's one of my favorite players, but I think Zambrano deserves a lot of consideration for being so good on such a bad team. At one point he had almost half of the team's wins.

Carpenter and Oswalt will get a lot of love because of name recognition.
Webb is a solid pick for it.
Harang and Arroyo, like someone said, will probably split their votes, if there are any to be had. I think Arroyo hurt his chances with the long winless streak, so Harang sticks out if anyone.

It's just a toss-up year this year, so I think the big names will come out on top.

paintmered
09-30-2006, 02:25 PM
Who was the last Red to lead the league in innings pitched, complete games and strikeouts?

Joseph
09-30-2006, 02:29 PM
I heard a story about managers and coaches voting the other day.

Coach 1: 'Who is a good third basemen?'

Coach 2: Scott Rolen

Coach 1: Oh Yeah, I'll vote for him for Gold Glove at 3B.


The names will win since no one is dominant. Carpenter, Hoffman, those are the guys who have a chance, not Harang and Arroyo since they weren't spectacular.

LoganBuck
09-30-2006, 03:05 PM
Arroyo has better name recognition then we give him credit for because he played in Boston.

BamaRed
09-30-2006, 03:20 PM
Who was the last Red to lead the league in innings pitched, complete games and strikeouts?


Nears I can figure it would be Bucky Walters in 1939

mth123
09-30-2006, 09:44 PM
Here is where things stand through 9/29.

IP ERA BABIP VORP Whip W K's
Carpenta 221.7 3.09 0.278 67.6 1.07 15 184
Arroyo 233.7 3.27 0.273 61.9 1.18 14 181
Webb 231 2.88 0.288 73.2 1.11 16 173
Oswalt 220.7 2.98 0.310 72.2 1.17 15 166
Harang 234.3 3.76 0.326 48.7 1.27 16 216
Smoltz 215 3.58 0.305 58.9 1.18 15 206
Zambran 214 3.41 0.259 53.3 1.29 16 210

Pretty close. Zambrano has 115 walks so he still has the second highest WHIP even with a very "hit lucky" season. Harang has had the least luck, but has the highest ERA and WHIP and the lowest VORP. This will be a year that you could argue or not argue with most of the guys. These starters could split the vote pretty evenly and allow Hoffman to slip in.

Hoffman has 44 Saves, a 1.92 ERA, A WHIP of .934 and he set the all time save record. I think the voters may show him some love. Most voters won't look at VORP, BABIP or even WHIP as a rule. With no big winner, less than 2.00 ERA or 250 K guy, a reliever gets a longer look. The save record may put him over the top. I personally wouldn't take a reliever, but in a down year for top, top starters, the voters may.

goodwilly98
10-02-2006, 12:00 AM
FWIW, Brantley on ESPN just now picked Harang as his Cy Young winner

Oswalt had 2 votes, and Krukie picked Trevor Hoffman