Time To Fire Up The Hot Stove

[Krusty]

For the Reds, it is the offseason and there is much work to be done. So let me throw this trade proposal out there:

Reds trade OF Adam Dunn and infielder Brendan Harris to the Astros for OF Luke Scott, 2nd baseman Chris Burke and RHP Brad Lidge.

Griffey goes to LF while Denorifa and Freel man centerfield. Scott is the Reds new RF. Phillips is the shortstop while Burke takes over at second. But with a free agent market that is scarce in closers, the alternative for the Reds is the trade market for a closer. Brad Lidge had a horrible season and it is clear that he needs a change of scenery.

[redsfan4445]

how about Dunn for Berkman?? I dont see the Astros giving away Scott.. he was the reason they got rid of Preston Wilson and he struck out less than Dunn!

[Krusty]

how about Dunn for Berkman?? I dont see the Astros giving away Scott.. he was the reason they got rid of Preston Wilson and he struck out less than Dunn!


I would settle for Dunn for Scott and Lidge. I think Scott will be a solid major league player.

[RollyInRaleigh]

I don't like the idea of trading Dunn within the division.

[Falls City Beer]

That's not enough for Dunn. Let him build his value up next season.

[Red Leader]

I'm thinking that Krivsky won't make a trade the day after the season ends. Who knows though, he has been pretty active this season.....

As for the trade, I think that'd be a nice package to get in return for Dunn, I just don't see the Astros making that deal.

[Spring~Fields]

For the Reds, it is the offseason and there is much work to be done. So let me throw this trade proposal out there:

Reds trade OF Adam Dunn and infielder Brendan Harris to the Astros for OF Luke Scott, 2nd baseman Chris Burke and RHP Brad Lidge.

Griffey goes to LF while Denorifa and Freel man centerfield. Scott is the Reds new RF. Phillips is the shortstop while Burke takes over at second. But with a free agent market that is scarce in closers, the alternative for the Reds is the trade market for a closer. Brad Lidge had a horrible season and it is clear that he needs a change of scenery.

Krusty I need more, much more for Dunn and associates because six straight years of losing is enough.

I need three championship caliber outfielders, I need a second baseman, third baseman, and shortstop that can actually field, throw the ball and hit it, I need a first baseman with some pop in his bat, I need number 3, 4, 5 starting pitchers, an additional group of reliable relief pitchers, a solid closer, then some bench players. A manager who can synchronize the entire unit and get the best from his people as possible. Also need payroll flexibility by ridding the team of some objective/goal blocking contracts such as Milton’s, Larue, Griffey etc.

[BRM]

A couple of friends of mine are A's fans and they are really hoping Dunn ends up in Oakland this winter.

[Joseph]

Krusty I need more, much more for Dunn and associates because six straight years of losing is enough.

I need three championship caliber outfielders, I need a second baseman, third baseman, and shortstop that can actually field, throw the ball and hit it, I need a first baseman with some pop in his bat, I need number 3, 4, 5 starting pitchers, an additional group of reliable relief pitchers, a solid closer, then some bench players. A manager who can synchronize the entire unit and get the best from his people as possible. Also need payroll flexibility by ridding the team of some objective/goal blocking contracts such as Milton’s, Larue, Griffey etc.

So this team has no talent and is in total overhaul mode, & the only thing they have is two starting pitchers?

[redsfan30]

Away from the Dunn front, I've stated before earlier in the year, and I still believe this would be a good course of action:

Make Bronson Arroyo available for trade.

I'm not at all saying give him away. Hear me out. This season very well may be a career year for Bronson. The pitching market is razor thin this winter. He's signed pretty cheaply for two more seasons. I think someone may just be willing to overpay based on a career season.

The Reds would have the upper hand in any negotiations involving a deal for Arroyo. They do not have to trade him. Krivsky would just put his feet up on the desk and say to other GM's "fire away, boys!" If someone knocks you over, giving up two top notch propsects and a Major League ready arm then you do it. If you don't get what you think is fair, you go into 2007 with him in the rotation.

I believe the best way to go is to cash in on Arroyo right now.

[KoryMac5]

Lidge is the type of streaky reliever that the Reds don't need. So basically all we would get for Dunn would be Burke. I would have to pass on that deal. If a Dunn trade were to be made I would love one of Toronto's outfielders Rio's or Wells for him. I have heard that the offers for Dunn might underwhelm Krivs. Many GM's don't like his game if a trade were to come it would be from the AL were they could hide his D.

[westofyou]

Mmmm a 28 year old breakout, a guy who wil be 27 year old that can't take 2nd away from Biggio and a 21st century Mitch Williams.

At least Frank Robinson got the PCL batting champ and a stud middle reliever along with Pappas.

Luke Scott could be the next Kevin Maas, Burke the next Joe McEwing, and Dunn the next Frank Howard.

[SultanOfSwing]

Away from the Dunn front, I've stated before earlier in the year, and I still believe this would be a good course of action:

Make Bronson Arroyo available for trade.

I'm not at all saying give him away. Hear me out. This season very well may be a career year for Bronson. The pitching market is razor thin this winter. He's signed pretty cheaply for two more seasons. I think someone may just be willing to overpay based on a career season.

The Reds would have the upper hand in any negotiations involving a deal for Arroyo. They do not have to trade him. Krivsky would just put his feet up on the desk and say to other GM's "fire away, boys!" If someone knocks you over, giving up two top notch propsects and a Major League ready arm then you do it. If you don't get what you think is fair, you go into 2007 with him in the rotation.

I believe the best way to go is to cash in on Arroyo right now.
I agree, this could be very smart. As much as I love Bronson Arroyo and his salary, the return could be outstanding. Imagine a Mark Mulder to the Cards type of return. The A's got Danny Haren (young ML-ready SP, think Aaron Harang), Kiko Calero (great bullpen arm), and Daric Barton (hotshot C prospect). If we could get a similar return, we couldn't say no.

[dunner13]

The problem with the mulder comparison is that mulder was dominate for a couple of years and was one of the best young pitchers in baseball. Arroyo was a 5th starter, long bullpen man before he came here. He had a great year but it was his first year in the majors and he did struggle for two months of the season. I personally love him and think he will only do better next year but this is what another gm would say and why we couldnt get a loaded package for him. Keep him, hes cheap and good, theres no guarantee that any young pitcher you get is going to be as good as him and its going to be hard to be better than him.

[NJReds]

O'Brien Hot Stove:
http://www.trailstove.com/2004stovecooking.jpg

Krivsky Hot Stove:
http://static.flickr.com/85/238428176_9e24da5f33.jpg

I think it's going to be a busy offseason.

[goreds2]

Yesterday, I was pondering getting Lidge upon his mini blow up to manager Phil Garner on Saturday night. I say, go after him!

[Shaknb8k]

Any way we could gather up a list of sites for the Hot Stove League and kind of rank them by their info.?

[klw]

How about this blockbuster:\

Eric Eymann to the Red Sox for Kyle Snyder

Something about Snyder reminds me of Arroyo without any of the success.

[vaticanplum]

Away from the Dunn front, I've stated before earlier in the year, and I still believe this would be a good course of action:

Make Bronson Arroyo available for trade.

I'm not at all saying give him away. Hear me out. This season very well may be a career year for Bronson. The pitching market is razor thin this winter. He's signed pretty cheaply for two more seasons. I think someone may just be willing to overpay based on a career season.

The Reds would have the upper hand in any negotiations involving a deal for Arroyo. They do not have to trade him. Krivsky would just put his feet up on the desk and say to other GM's "fire away, boys!" If someone knocks you over, giving up two top notch propsects and a Major League ready arm then you do it. If you don't get what you think is fair, you go into 2007 with him in the rotation.

I believe the best way to go is to cash in on Arroyo right now.

This is an interesting point. I think that what happened with Arroyo this year was that he came closer to realizing his talent, not that he had a career year. Besides having pretty good stuff, he has two qualities that I believe stand pitchers in good stead in the long run: he's smart (he will adjust as his stuff changes, he studies hitters very carefully), and he doesn't seem injury-prone. Even his physique suggests a good long career to me. So I think that it is in the Reds' best interest to keep him. But that is a good point you make...when the right deal comes along it's not a bad idea to sell when things are clearly in your favor. I just think that good starting pitching on this team needs to be held onto for dear life.

[blumj]

How about this blockbuster:\

Eric Eymann to the Red Sox for Kyle Snyder

Something about Snyder reminds me of Arroyo without any of the success.
It's his face, he looks kind of like him. He's tall, and has a nice curveball, too. But Snyder has a very unfortunate history of serious arm injuries which make him decidedly unlike Arroyo in that department.

[buckeyenut]

How about Arroyo and Dunn to LAA for Santana, Aybar, Kendrick, Shields, Mathis? Might be willing to take Joe Saunders instead of Santana, but that seems to be a fair deal for both sides to me.

[Krusty]

How about Arroyo and Dunn to LAA for Santana, Aybar, Kendrick, Shields, Mathis? Might be willing to take Joe Saunders instead of Santana, but that seems to be a fair deal for both sides to me.

I was thinking about a Santana for Dunn deal but if you're the Angels, wouldn't it be easier just to sign Soriano or Lee and keep all that young talent?

[Krusty]

Mmmm a 28 year old breakout, a guy who wil be 27 year old that can't take 2nd away from Biggio and a 21st century Mitch Williams.

At least Frank Robinson got the PCL batting champ and a stud middle reliever along with Pappas.

Luke Scott could be the next Kevin Maas, Burke the next Joe McEwing, and Dunn the next Frank Howard.

You might see Dunn as the next Frank Howard but I see him as the next Rob Deer.

[Patrick Bateman]

You might see Dunn as the next Frank Howard but I see him as the next Rob Deer.

Deer was an out-making machine, while Dunn gets on base a ton. Dunn is a much better hitter than Deer was.

[Team Clark]

how about Dunn for Berkman?? I dont see the Astros giving away Scott.. he was the reason they got rid of Preston Wilson and he struck out less than Dunn!

I would do that YESTERDAY!!!!!

[Krusty]

Of course you have the Tigers who could be looking for a lefthanded bat to play LF and DH. I am sure they would have interest in Dunn or even Griffey. Casey and Stairs will leave as free agents and the Tigers do have some pitching that they might spare.

[westofyou]

You might see Dunn as the next Frank Howard but I see him as the next Rob Deer.

Maybe you might want to look at some stats some time then?

Howard vs the league

.019/.029/.115/.144

Deer Vs the league

-.042/-.006/.044/.039

------------------------

Dunn prior to this year

-.020/.043/.088/.131

This year

-.031/.031/.063/.094

[buckeyenut]

Of course you have the Tigers who could be looking for a lefthanded bat to play LF and DH. I am sure they would have interest in Dunn or even Griffey. Casey and Stairs will leave as free agents and the Tigers do have some pitching that they might spare.

I'd give Detroit a shot. They have had some luck with aging superstars, guys who most teams think are past their prime, over the last few years.

[RollyInRaleigh]

I would do that YESTERDAY!!!!!

Absolutely. Me too!

[RollyInRaleigh]

I would do that YESTERDAY!!!!!

Absolutely. Me too! I'm not crazy about trading within the division, but if it is Berkman, no hesitation.

[Red Leader]

You might see Dunn as the next Frank Howard but I see him as the next Rob Deer.

:rolleyes:

It never ends.

Seriously, Krusty, check your facts before you type something completely inaccurate next time. You've been around here a long time, you can't tell me you've never read one of the 5,000 threads that have covered this false comparison over the last 5 years.

[Krusty]

:rolleyes:

It never ends.

Seriously, Krusty, check your facts before you type something completely inaccurate next time. You've been around here a long time, you can't tell me you've never read one of the 5,000 threads that have covered this false comparison over the last 5 years.


Okay, he might not be the next Rob Deer but he is a far cry from Pujols, Berkman and other noted sluggers.

IMO, when Dunn shows he is capable of carrying this team on his back then I'll put him up there with the allstars in the NL and AL.

[redsfan30]

IMO, when Dunn shows he is capable of carrying this team on his back then I'll put him up there with the allstars in the NL and AL.

This is exactly my stance on the Adam Dunn debate.

[Team Clark]

:rolleyes:

It never ends.

Seriously, Krusty, check your facts before you type something completely inaccurate next time. You've been around here a long time, you can't tell me you've never read one of the 5,000 threads that have covered this false comparison over the last 5 years.

I thought it was the Dave Kingman comparisons that fired everyone up!! :laugh:

[Spring~Fields]

I thought it was the Dave Kingman comparisons that fired everyone up!! :laugh:

I thought it was Pujols.

Pujols to Kingman quite a range. :eek:

[Highlifeman21]

Pujols > Berkman
Pujols > Dunn

to me, Dunn = Berkman

I know some people will assert Berkman > Dunn, and I will concede that for sake of argument, but Pujols is still the best hitting position player in the entire game. Comparing anyone to him is doing a disservice to both players.

[Patrick Bateman]

Since 2000 Berkman hasn't had an OPS below .927. He's had 3 seasons with an OPS over 1.000. His career is .983.

To me, Berkman is easily better than Dunn. No question about it. Dunn could get to that level, but Berkman is already there.

[goreds2]

Tonight (10/4/06), this is scheduled on 700WLW:

6PM-7PM SPORTSTALK WITH ANDY FURMAN
One year from now…will we be listening to a Reds playoff game?

http://www.700wlw.com/pages/programming.html

Listen online:

http://www.700wlw.com/pages/streaming.html

[RollyInRaleigh]

Since 2000 Berkman hasn't had an OPS below .927. He's had 3 seasons with an OPS over 1.000. His career is .983.

To me, Berkman is easily better than Dunn. No question about it. Dunn could get to that level, but Berkman is already there.

Right on the money.

[Red Leader]

Right on the money.

I agree.

Lance Berkman is a tremendous offensive player, one of the elites, and he still doesn't = Pujols. Pujols is just that good. He's in his own tier.

Where I think some of us disagree is where Adam Dunn falls in the tier structure. I don't think Adam Dunn is in the second tier with Berkman, Howard, et al, but I do think he's in the third tier, and near the top of the third tier at that, and with some work, I think he could get to the second tier and stay there for a decent amount of time. I don't think he'll ever be on par with where Pujuls is, but who can? Is it that bad that he's not Albert Pujols at the plate? Is it that bad that he could only be as good as or close to as good as Berkman, R. Howard, etc with some further development? Some people think he's in about the 5-10th tier, and I don't agree with that. He's not a below average offensive player, or even an average one. He's above average because of his OBP% and SLG%. Those two things to me, are what determines the value of an offensive player, not batting average.

[SultanOfSwing]

What happened to A-Rod? Are we just talking NL? A-Rod is better than Pujols IMO. (.290/.392/.523 35 HR 121 RBIs 113 R 15 SB in a bad year.) He certainly is more talented. At the least he deserves to be in this elite discussion. I have only seen comparisons to Pujols on this thread. Just asking.

[Red Leader]

What happened to A-Rod? Are we just talking NL? A-Rod is better than Pujols IMO. (.290/.392/.523 35 HR 121 RBIs 113 R 15 SB in a bad year.) He certainly is more talented. At the least he deserves to be in this elite discussion. I have only seen comparisons to Pujols on this thread. Just asking.

I was only talking about NL hitters, just to clarify. If we're talking all of baseball, I'd probably put A-Rod and Big Papi in the same elite tier with Pujols, although, IMO, both below Pujols as a hitter.

It'd be like:

Pujols

A-Rod
Ortiz
----------------------------------------
Berkman
R. Howard
----------------------------------------
Dunn

To list those players we've discussed only.