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ThatPitchIsDunn
10-03-2006, 01:55 PM
With Vernon Wells here the past few days doing Baseball Tonight for ESPN, I've jokingly chatted with him about how Cincy is a PERFECT fit for him. He's gone along with my banter good-naturedly, but I think it would really take a big contract or the exact right fit for him to leave Toronto. He really loves it there and enjoys the system he's involved in. I swear though, I saw a twinkle in his eye when I told him how great a hitter he was, but imagine his numbers in a bandbox like GABP. Peter Gammons (it's great to see him back and well by the way) and Karl Ravech, both huge Red Sox fans, tried to dismiss my hopes, but I told them I'd rather have Wells than Andruw Jones anyways. That may not have been entirely true, but I winked at Wells and he seemed amused by it all. Must be nice to be a phenomenal hitting talent going into free agency.

He's here for another couple days, anything else I should point out to favor him to the Redlegs?

KoryMac5
10-03-2006, 02:42 PM
He could get his hair cut like Chad Johnson. Seriously keep telling him Dunn and Griffey you would play outfield with Dunn and Griffey.

Natty Redlocks
10-03-2006, 03:50 PM
He's here for another couple days, anything else I should point out to favor him to the Redlegs?

Grab onto his legs and plead like a toddler.

IowaRed
10-03-2006, 04:00 PM
Cheerleaders? Redszone? Jerry Narron as manager? Royce Clayton hitting in front of him?

UC_Ken
10-03-2006, 04:03 PM
I believe Toronto's stadium is every bit the hitter's paradise GABP is. That said I'd love to have Wells. I'd want him more than Jones but I'd be speaking frequently to both the Braves and the Jays to see what the asking prices for each are. Getting a quality CF is a MUST this offseason.

Patrick Bateman
10-03-2006, 04:10 PM
Wells is going to command 13-15M in FA over 6-7 years.

I think getting Wells makes no sense for the pitching hungry Reds.

RedLegSuperStar
10-03-2006, 04:11 PM
Getting a quality CF is a MUST this offseason.

I wouldn't say its a must.. you do have Griffey, Freel, Denorfia, Hopper.. who could play the position. The must is Starting pitching. The must is a Closer.

BRM
10-03-2006, 04:12 PM
I wouldn't say its a must.. you do have Griffey, Freel, Denorfia, Hopper.. who could play the position. The must is Starting pitching. The must is a Closer.

Add a SS or 2B to the must list.

RedLegSuperStar
10-03-2006, 04:16 PM
Add a SS or 2B to the must list.

I'd like Luis Castillo... but if we could get Marcus Giles from Atlanta I'd be for it as long as the asking price isn't to high

BRM
10-03-2006, 04:17 PM
I'd like Luis Castillo... but if we could get Marcus Giles from Atlanta I'd be for it as long as the asking price isn't to high

Agreed. I thought Wayne said he'd prefer to keep Phillips at 2B and look for a SS but finding a 2B will be a whole lot easier.

RedLegSuperStar
10-03-2006, 04:17 PM
With Vernon Wells here the past few days doing Baseball Tonight for ESPN, I've jokingly chatted with him about how Cincy is a PERFECT fit for him. He's gone along with my banter good-naturedly, but I think it would really take a big contract or the exact right fit for him to leave Toronto. He really loves it there and enjoys the system he's involved in. I swear though, I saw a twinkle in his eye when I told him how great a hitter he was, but imagine his numbers in a bandbox like GABP. Peter Gammons (it's great to see him back and well by the way) and Karl Ravech, both huge Red Sox fans, tried to dismiss my hopes, but I told them I'd rather have Wells than Andruw Jones anyways. That may not have been entirely true, but I winked at Wells and he seemed amused by it all. Must be nice to be a phenomenal hitting talent going into free agency.

He's here for another couple days, anything else I should point out to favor him to the Redlegs?

Think Toronto would bite?

Vernon Wells to Cincinnati for Travis Wood, Chris Denorfia, Tyler Pelland, and David Shafer

edabbs44
10-03-2006, 04:19 PM
Think Toronto would bite?

Vernon Wells to Cincinnati for Travis Wood, Chris Denorfia, Tyler Pelland, and David Shafer

Toronto is semi-close to challenging...that would set them back a few years.

RedLegSuperStar
10-03-2006, 04:21 PM
Toronto is semi-close to challenging...that would set them back a few years.

True.. but in a division where you have Boston and New York.. you just got to be lucky.. this way they could spend the money on a Schmidt/Zito type FA..

HalMorrisRules
10-03-2006, 04:21 PM
If this site or anything like it has been posted elsewhere I apologize in advance. I was curious about potential free agents for this coming offseason so I went looking for a list and I found this very good website. Has some really good links at the top with a list of possible players available for trade.

Free Agent List (http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency.php)

RedLegSuperStar
10-03-2006, 04:23 PM
If this site or anything like it has been posted elsewhere I apologize in advance. I was curious about potential free agents for this coming offseason so I went looking for a list and I found this very good website. Has some really good links at the top with a list of possible players available for trade.

http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency.php

Yup.. pretty good site and a site I frequently head too.. also has some of the latest rumors as well

HalMorrisRules
10-03-2006, 04:25 PM
Yup.. pretty good site and a site I frequently head too.. also has some of the latest rumors as well

Something I noticed after I made my post caught my eye.

"Players that may potentially become eligible for free agency following this season that are omitted from the list below for various reasons include (but may not be limited to) Danys Baez, Kaz Matsui, Aramis Ramirez, J.D. Drew and Eric Milton."

Milton could possibly become a FA?

RedLegSuperStar
10-03-2006, 04:26 PM
Something I noticed after I made my post caught my eye.

"Players that may potentially become eligible for free agency following this season that are omitted from the list below for various reasons include (but may not be limited to) Danys Baez, Kaz Matsui, Aramis Ramirez, J.D. Drew and Eric Milton."

Milton could possibly become a FA?

Yes, but I doubt Milton will pass on 9 million dollars to pitch next season.

RedLegSuperStar
10-03-2006, 04:28 PM
Wells Wont Be Payed Beltran Type Money (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2611097)


TORONTO -- If All-Star center fielder Vernon Wells wants a contract similar to what Carlos Beltran got with the New York Mets two years ago, the Toronto Blue Jays won't re-sign him, general manager J.P. Ricciardi said Monday.

The team has called signing Wells to an extension their biggest offseason priority. He's due $5.6 million next year, the final season of a five-year contact.

Wells hit .303 with 32 homers, 106 RBI and 17 stolen bases while playing Gold Glove defense. He's a similar player to Beltran, who signed a $119 million, seven-year deal.

"I can tell you this: If it is a Beltran type deal then it's something we wouldn't be able to handle," Ricciardi said.

Ricciardi hasn't talked with Wells or his agent yet. Ownership has agreed to bump the team payroll past $80 million next season, but Ricciardi won't know for two weeks how much more.

"One thing with Wells is that we have him under contract for next year. Worst case scenario is that we have him for one more year," Ricciardi said.


"I can tell you this: If it is a Beltran type deal then it's something we wouldn't be able to handle. "
-- Blue Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi
Ricciardi will try to close the gap between New York and Boston this offseason. He thinks they made a step this year by finishing higher than third place in the AL East for the first time since 1993. Toronto finished with an 87-76 record and secured second place in the AL East -- ahead of Boston but behind New York.

"I'm not going to sit here and tell you that we popped champagne for finishing in second place," Ricciardi said. "But it's something we haven't done here in a long time. We finished ahead of the Red Sox. It's just a nice stepping stone. I know the guys were really driven to get to that spot. We're closer to where we think we can be."

Ricciardi spent millions last offseason to help close the gap.

He raised eyebrows when he gave B.J. Ryan the most lucrative contract ever for a reliever -- $47 million over five years. Ryan had 37 saves and a 1.37 ERA, but he blew an important game in Oakland on July 30 -- just before the Blue Jays fell out of contention after being swept in New York.

Ricciardi also gave starter A.J. Burnett a five-year, $55 million deal. Burnett missed more than two months with an elbow injury, but he finished strong (10-8 with a 3.98 ERA.)

That early season injury and a similar injury to left-hander Gustavo Chacin derailed Toronto's chances more than anything, Ricciardi said.

"It would really nice if we could stay healthy for the whole year. I think if we can bring this whole team back totally healthy then we can make a legitimate run at winning this division," Ricciardi said.


"We have a number that we feel comfortable that we would go after [pitcher] Ted [Lilly] with. But if somebody goes out and just blows that number out of the water we're obviously not going to get involved."
-- Blue Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi
Ricciardi wants to add depth to the rotation, especially with left-hander Ted Lilly (15-13 4.31 ERA) headed for free agency.

He won't get in a bidding war for Lilly, who got into a physical altercation with manager John Gibbons in August.

"We have a number that we feel comfortable that we would go after Ted with. But if somebody goes out and just blows that number out of the water we're obviously not going to get involved," Ricciardi said.

Ricciardi added the market for free agent starters is thin so they'll be probably overpaid.

Ricciardi said they can't afford to bring back both Bengie Molina and Gregg Zaun. Ricciardi won't pick up Molina's option for next year and he doesn't want to spend another $5.5 million for catchers.

Zaun is looking for around $3 million per season and will likely re-sign. Ricciardi said he's comfortable with Jason Phillips as the backup.

Ricciardi is also comfortable with his corner outfielders. Left fielder Reed Johnson (.319, .390 on-base percentage) and right fielder Alex Rios (.302, 17 home runs, 82 RBI) had breakout seasons.

And Ricciardi hasn't ruled out re-signing free agent Frank Catalanotto (.300, 7, 56).

"We had four outfielders that hit .300. I thought Rios had a real coming out year. It's a shame that he got hurt from a staph infection standpoint, but we expect bigger and better things from him next year," he said. "I thought Reed had a great year. With those two guys in the lineup I like our outfield."

He also happy with third baseman Troy Glaus (.252, 38, 104). But the GM said Glaus needs to work out in the offseason to prevent himself from tiring like he did in the second half.

"Every player gets to a point in their career where they decide I'd better start working out a little harder and I think Troy is at that point now," Ricciardi said.

Ricciardi will try to add a middle infielder. He called Aaron Hill (.291, 6, 51) an adequate shortstop, but he prefers him at second base.

He'll have at least $12 million to spend and maybe as much as $30 million if ownership bumps the payroll to around $100 million as speculated. A large portion of the increase could go to Wells, who says he wants to take care of his kid's kids.

"We'll find out pretty soon where we stand," Wells said.

TC81190
10-03-2006, 04:32 PM
Did Oakland ever sign Zito? If not, there's your free agent, right there. I think you'd try Speier, Armas, Meche, and Schmidt, also.

TeamSelig
10-03-2006, 05:40 PM
I think I can see Vernon going to Boston if Andruw Jones doesn't end up there.

Slyder
10-03-2006, 08:26 PM
Yes, but I doubt Milton will pass on 9 million dollars to pitch next season.

Maybe he will pass on the money because he hasnt earned it :D and wants to resign for a contract for much less... I know I am dreaming but if he really wants to pay back the Reds I will buy him whatever he drinks :beerme: .

Anyways, yes thats a good site, thats what I used for my "offseason to-do" list.

Just a couple things about Zito:
#1 He is considering a top pitcher in FA (starting price 10 mil)
#2 His agent is Scott BorASS (add 4 mil more)
#3 He has said that he wants to go to Boston or NY (and 2 mil more)
What do you got for him??? A whole hell of a lot more money than the reds would pay. If we could get someone in the "top echelon" (no not Eric Milton type) for 9-11 mil Id do it. Front load the contract, put lots of "guarentees", security, whatever its worth the risk. (Still on the "Bring Jason back to the Central" Train)

Always Red
10-03-2006, 08:48 PM
I think getting Wells makes no sense for the pitching hungry Reds.

I was thinking the same thing until I went earlier today and looked up some basic stats.

The Reds finished 22nd out of 30 MLB teams in runs scored, 9th out of 16 NL teams.

The Reds finished 14th out of 30 in ERA in MLB, 7th out of 16 in the NL.

One could make an excellent argument that this team lost due to a lack of hitting this year.

The pitching is starting to come around. Not playoff caliber yet, of course, but it is improving.

I think Vernon Wells would be great on this Reds team, as long as I'm not paying the bill.

mth123
10-03-2006, 08:53 PM
I was thinking the same thing until I went earlier today and looked up some basic stats.

The Reds finished 22nd out of 30 MLB teams in runs scored, 9th out of 16 NL teams.

The Reds finished 14th out of 30 in ERA in MLB, 7th out of 16 in the NL.

One could make an excellent argument that this team lost due to a lack of hitting this year.

The pitching is starting to come around. Not playoff caliber yet, of course, but it is improving.

I think Vernon Wells would be great on this Reds team, as long as I'm not paying the bill.

August and September were primarily due to lack of hitting. The team as it currently is constructed will be lucky to score 650 runs in 2007 IMO. Remember now Aurilia is gone too.

RedLegSuperStar
10-03-2006, 09:03 PM
Maybe he will pass on the money because he hasnt earned it :D and wants to resign for a contract for much less... I know I am dreaming but if he really wants to pay back the Reds I will buy him whatever he drinks :beerme: .

Anyways, yes thats a good site, thats what I used for my "offseason to-do" list.

Just a couple things about Zito:
#1 He is considering a top pitcher in FA (starting price 10 mil)
#2 His agent is Scott BorASS (add 4 mil more)
#3 He has said that he wants to go to Boston or NY (and 2 mil more)
What do you got for him??? A whole hell of a lot more money than the reds would pay. If we could get someone in the "top echelon" (no not Eric Milton type) for 9-11 mil Id do it. Front load the contract, put lots of "guarentees", security, whatever its worth the risk. (Still on the "Bring Jason back to the Central" Train)


Thing about Milton is that this would be a contract year for him. So if he ever wanted to see anything close to 9 Mil a year he would have to pitch lights out.. If he could pitch well.. well enough to get value for him at the deadline that away we can at least get something in return for him because I doubt he will return after the season would be good. If we are in contention.. by then it should be time to see what Homer has.. if he isn't up by then.

The good thing about the FA pitching market heading into 07 is that we have some aces to choose from where as in years past it hasn't been as deep. Names like Zito, Schmidt, Mussina, Matsuzaka, Mulder, Petitte, as well as some possible middle of the rotation guys like.. Eaton, Lilly, Wolf, and Armas Jr.

redsfan4445
10-03-2006, 09:22 PM
With Vernon Wells here the past few days doing Baseball Tonight for ESPN, I've jokingly chatted with him about how Cincy is a PERFECT fit for him. He's gone along with my banter good-naturedly, but I think it would really take a big contract or the exact right fit for him to leave Toronto. He really loves it there and enjoys the system he's involved in. I swear though, I saw a twinkle in his eye when I told him how great a hitter he was, but imagine his numbers in a bandbox like GABP. Peter Gammons (it's great to see him back and well by the way) and Karl Ravech, both huge Red Sox fans, tried to dismiss my hopes, but I told them I'd rather have Wells than Andruw Jones anyways. That may not have been entirely true, but I winked at Wells and he seemed amused by it all. Must be nice to be a phenomenal hitting talent going into free agency.

He's here for another couple days, anything else I should point out to favor him to the Redlegs?


Tell him Jr could move to LF with Dunn used to get pitching and he would have CF all to his own.. ask him if that would be enticing hitting in front or behind Jr??

Caveat Emperor
10-03-2006, 09:44 PM
Wells is going to command 13-15M in FA over 6-7 years.

I think getting Wells makes no sense for the pitching hungry Reds.

They're pitching-hungry, but they're not pitching-starved the way they were a few years back. At least now they've got two top-flight major league arms in Arroyo and Harang -- it's been a long while since you could legitimately say that. Neither one is ever going to be confused with an ace, but both (when healthy) are going to give you competitive innings, below-average ERAs, and both can miss bats.

The Reds really only need to go grab one more good/average starter in free agency to go along with Milton and the inevitable Homer Bailey call-up in May/June (if not sooner). If they don't want to break the bank, someone like a Tomo Ohka might fit the bill nicely -- never one for missing a ton of bats, but keeps the ball in the yard and hold opponents to a reasonable OPSA. He'd be someone who might be worth offering a 3 year deal at and hoping that he performs well enough to be a 4th starter.

Aside from getting that new starter and a few bullpen arms, I think the Reds would be beyond foolish to not look to add a bat to the lineup, either out in RF or at 2B with Phillips going to short. They can't count on RA to replicate the season he had this year -- ditto to Ross, Hatteberg, and Phillips. That's a lot of potential black holes in the lineup if the chips don't fall correctly again.

Of course, that's assuming Dunn doesn't get moved for pitching -- and, at this point, I'm almost 75% certain it's going to happen (for better or worse). If that does happen, that makes going after a bopper all the more important. Pitching is the key, but this team has to score runs if they want to win at home.

Highlifeman21
10-03-2006, 09:46 PM
Tell him Jr could move to LF with Dunn used to get pitching and he would have CF all to his own.. ask him if that would be enticing hitting in front or behind Jr??


Vernon Wells has been, and probably always will be a 3 hole hitter. Therefore, Griffey is in the 5 spot, provided he's still on our team. Dunn should be 4th.

That being said, if we were to get Vernon Wells, I think the lineup should look a little something like this...

Denorfia RF
EE 3B
Wells CF
Dunn 1B
Griffey LF
Phillips SS
Ross C
Harris 2B
Pitcher

While I'm not sold on Brendan Harris as our everyday 2B, I like the rest of this lineup.

Any takers?

paintmered
10-03-2006, 09:50 PM
Vernon Wells has been, and probably always will be a 3 hole hitter. Therefore, Griffey is in the 5 spot, provided he's still on our team. Dunn should be 4th.

That being said, if we were to get Vernon Wells, I think the lineup should look a little something like this...

Denorfia RF
EE 3B
Wells CF
Dunn 1B
Griffey LF
Phillips SS
Ross C
Harris 2B
Pitcher

While I'm not sold on Brendan Harris as our everyday 2B, I like the rest of this lineup.

Any takers?

I'll see your lineup and raise you Marcus Giles.

Deno - RF
Giles - 2B
Wells - CF
Dunn - 1B
Griffey - LF
EE - 3B
Phillips - SS
Ross - C
Pitcher

Pipe dream? Absolutely. But it's fun to play armchair GM every once in a while.

Highlifeman21
10-03-2006, 09:56 PM
I'll see your lineup and raise you Marcus Giles.

Deno - RF
Giles - 2B
Wells - CF
Dunn - 1B
Griffey - LF
EE - 3B
Phillips - SS
Ross - C
Pitcher

Pipe dream? Absolutely. But it's fun to play armchair GM every once in a while.

I'll check to the raiser.

I think if we have 1 shot at either Wells or Giles, I pick wells 8 days out of the week. As for your lineup proposal, if that pipe dream could become reality, I'm on board that ship.

Will M
10-03-2006, 10:49 PM
CF Deno/Freel
2b Giles
3b EE
RF The best power hitting RF we can sign as a free agent
LF Griffey
1b Votto ( or Hatteberg ) PLUS Aurillia ( with RA also playing some 2b/3b )
C Valentin/Ross
SS Phillips

SP Arroyo
SP Harang
SP The best pitcher we can get for Dunn
SP Lohse
SP Milton ( Bailey starts at AAA )

RP Coffey Majik Weathers Bray Cormier Belisle/EZ/Claussen

vaticanplum
10-04-2006, 12:15 AM
#3 He has said that he wants to go to Boston or NY

When did he say that? I thought he was wary of New York. Mind you, I expected him to come around on that with Boras's help, but I remember hearing that.

mth123
10-04-2006, 04:58 AM
They're pitching-hungry, but they're not pitching-starved the way they were a few years back. At least now they've got two top-flight major league arms in Arroyo and Harang -- it's been a long while since you could legitimately say that. Neither one is ever going to be confused with an ace, but both (when healthy) are going to give you competitive innings, below-average ERAs, and both can miss bats.

The Reds really only need to go grab one more good/average starter in free agency to go along with Milton and the inevitable Homer Bailey call-up in May/June (if not sooner). If they don't want to break the bank, someone like a Tomo Ohka might fit the bill nicely -- never one for missing a ton of bats, but keeps the ball in the yard and hold opponents to a reasonable OPSA. He'd be someone who might be worth offering a 3 year deal at and hoping that he performs well enough to be a 4th starter.

Aside from getting that new starter and a few bullpen arms, I think the Reds would be beyond foolish to not look to add a bat to the lineup, either out in RF or at 2B with Phillips going to short. They can't count on RA to replicate the season he had this year -- ditto to Ross, Hatteberg, and Phillips. That's a lot of potential black holes in the lineup if the chips don't fall correctly again.

Of course, that's assuming Dunn doesn't get moved for pitching -- and, at this point, I'm almost 75% certain it's going to happen (for better or worse). If that does happen, that makes going after a bopper all the more important. Pitching is the key, but this team has to score runs if they want to win at home.

Agree completely.

paulrichjr
10-04-2006, 08:15 AM
Call Sean Casey and Danny Graves and have them contact him. I'm sure they could tell him something about the atmosphere in Cincinnati being easier to play in because there....

BuckWoody
10-04-2006, 08:55 AM
We're talking about this guy, right?
http://www.roadwarusa.com/roadwar151/images/wez.jpg
And you thought people complained about the body armor that Bonds wears to the plate. I'll say one thing though, he will play through injuries.

MississippiRed
10-04-2006, 09:22 AM
I'll see your lineup and raise you Marcus Giles.

Deno - RF
Giles - 2B
Wells - CF
Dunn - 1B
Griffey - LF
EE - 3B
Phillips - SS
Ross - C
Pitcher

Pipe dream? Absolutely. But it's fun to play armchair GM every once in a while.

I don't know much about Giles, but if Dunn is still here next year, I hope they put him in the second spot in the lineup and leave him there. I believe his OPS would again approach 1.100 with Wells (or some other strong RH hitter) hitting behind him. I also like Dunn at 1B. So,

Deno - RF
Dunn - 1B
Wells - CF
Griffey - LF
Encarnacion - 3B
Giles - 2B
Ross - C
Phillips - SS
P

This regular lineup would once again lead the NL in runs scored, I think, depending on how much money the Mets spend in the off-season.

SultanOfSwing
10-04-2006, 09:41 AM
If this site or anything like it has been posted elsewhere I apologize in advance. I was curious about potential free agents for this coming offseason so I went looking for a list and I found this very good website. Has some really good links at the top with a list of possible players available for trade.

Free Agent List (http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency.php)
Did anyone notice two names missing from the potential trades? (Dunn and Griffey) I noticed Orlando Hudson is on there. Wow! I would see what it would take to get him (amazing fielder and decent bat). Probably a king's ransom. Delmon Young listed as well. ??! Loshe, Milton, LaRue, and Ross are listed! Just some interesting thoughts. Everyone should check it out.

SultanOfSwing
10-04-2006, 09:49 AM
When did he say that? I thought he was wary of New York. Mind you, I expected him to come around on that with Boras's help, but I remember hearing that.
Yes, he is not interested and neither are they. Both NY teams have stated they have no interest in signing Zito this winter. That may actually lower his price. I dunno. Boston may still have interest. Texas, Baltimore and West Coast teams will likely have the most interest.

SultanOfSwing
10-04-2006, 10:09 AM
What about this?

1)
LaRue (eat $2.5-3 mill., or Ross), Majik, Deno, and Wood or Aurilla/Harris
for
Vernon Wells

This fills Toronto's needs (C, IF, BP) more readily and might be more realistic. They need a DH as well (maybe Griffey, Majik, LaRue?) I dunno.

2)
Milton (eat $4-5 mil) and Coffey
for
Marcus Giles

The Braves need a SP and have almost no money to spend on the FA Market.

3) Dunn, Loshe, Shafer, Claussen
for
Ervin Santana, Brendan Donnelly, Howie Kendrick

or

Dunn
for
Rich Harden/Dan Haren/Joe Blanton, Kirk Saarloos
(I realize you may have to throw in some ML. Probably even more for Harden, but we could try)

or

Dunn, Hatteberg/Aurilla, Shafer
for
Joel Zumaya, Bonderman/Verlander/Robertson
(I realize this may take some fiddling too. But we should really try for Zumaya and a SP)

4) Call the Astros for Brad Lidge, offer minor leaguers, but not much

I think these are pretty realistic. Obviously not much chance of them all happening, but some may. I haven't even touched on Griffey, I think Detroit may take him (with ML for Zumaya/Rodney?) And after this we have to fill OF and BP holes, but we are much better off and have a ton more cash. I may post possible FA signings later.