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View Full Version : Dunn in Griffey's shadow?



Natty Redlocks
10-06-2006, 08:53 PM
I have an old scouting guide from after the 2004 season. Here's what it says about Derrek Lee, then a career .266 hitter who usually hit 5th or 6th: "Lee's stature will continue to grow when he moves out of Sammy Sosa's shadow. Just needs to cut down on his strikeouts."

I remember reading that and wondering if there was anything to it; if the removal of the prima donna superstar Sosa could possibly have a positive effect on an already very good player entering his prime. Of course, Lee went on to win the batting title, had a near-MVP season, and became something of a superstar himself.

The point is, what if the presence of Ken Griffey Jr. is somehow holding Adam Dunn back? Dunn has never not been second banana to Junior. What if -- forget for a moment the implausibility of it -- what if the Reds traded Griffey? What if they immediately began treating Dunn as The Man, the franchise player they're building their offense around? What if he became the undisputed 3 hitter, the way Griffey has been?

I'm not saying it's definitely something they should do. But what if there is something to the idea that Dunn has never fully "stepped up" because it was always "Junior's team"? I know it may sound silly -- and I know you all will tell me if it does -- but might not it be worth a try? I await your derision and ridicule.

mth123
10-06-2006, 09:11 PM
Dunn doesn't seem like the type to be intimidated or in awe of anyone so probably not. But I know that some personality types don't perform well as second bananas. I have seen it many times in the workplace. Not sure if an athlete who (this is a stereotype so sorry) generally gets where he is from being aggressive would be the type, but its possible.

Dunn has had plenty of chances to step up with Griffey out over the years. I don't know the stats, so I can't say for sure, but he seems to play better with Griffey's protection in the line-up. 2004 was Dunn's best year and Griffey wasn't around much. As you have observed in other threads in the past, he seems to fade at the end of the season, and that is usually when Griffey is out.

Not sure what to make of it, but it doesn't change my opinion. Dunn is the man already anyway.

Interesting thought.

Natty Redlocks
10-06-2006, 09:20 PM
Thanks. I'm still leaning toward trading Dunn, but I do recognize that the best possible scenario is for him to stay, have a breakout season, and anchor the offense for years to come. I just can't bring myself to sit and hope it happens without wanting to see someone do something to help facilitate it.

RedLegSuperStar
10-06-2006, 09:30 PM
Dunn sure didn't do anything when Junior was out for the last month of the season.. a whopping 5 RBI's.. I know what your getting at but I think Dunn needs a big bat/big name in the line-up and the last month of the season proves that...

RedFanAlways1966
10-06-2006, 10:42 PM
Dunn sure didn't do anything when Junior was out for the last month of the season.. a whopping 5 RBI's.. I know what your getting at but I think Dunn needs a big bat/big name in the line-up and the last month of the season proves that...

When Junior was injured and put on the DL Apr. 13 this year, Dunn did this:

* 26G, 89 AB, 18 H, 9 HR, 19 RBI.
* 32 K, 25 BB, 21 R.
* .916 OPS.
>> REDS are 17-9.

The REDS played well. Dunn's numbers are indicative of numbers that some people do not like... too many strikeouts, only a .202 BA, not enough non-HR basehits, etc. But when combined with good starting pitching (14 QS in that stretch) and other players hitting (avg. 5.15 R/G in that stretch)... it works well. Scores a run about 1/2 the time he gets on base (those walks must count for something).

If you take the above numbers and stretch it over 162 games, you'd get:
* 56 HR, 118 RBI, 199 K, 156 BB, 131 R.
Does the .202 BA and 199 Ks overpower the HRs, RBIs, Runs and Walks? Not in my book. I'd like to see more non-HR hits and less Ks, but I'll take the run production. Dave Kingman & Gorman Thomas can only dream about that many walks or that many runs scored (not to mention that many HRs)... no comparing to those two can or should be made.

jmac
10-07-2006, 12:48 AM
i am not a dunn basher.i believe there are certain #'s you can expect from dunner like 40 hrs 100 rbi's etc. Avg probably in the 240-260 range.
it just seems we constantly hear how something may or will effect dunn:batt him 3rd, batt him #4,hit jr behind,hit jr in front,dont trade buddy austin,maybe trading austin will help dunn.all of these things happened at sometime this season.
as was stated ...jr has missed enough that dunn would have had chance to bust loose already.
if dunn hits 55 hrs 135 rbi's in 07......i will say wonderful and figure it is more based on maturity,patience,etc rather than jr being in or out of the lineup.

Matt700wlw
10-07-2006, 01:53 PM
Griff went down...Dunn got worse.

I know..."small sample size"

Moving him out of the 2 hole didn't help either....he thrived there...

Natty Redlocks
10-07-2006, 04:24 PM
Griff went down...Dunn got worse.

I know..."small sample size"

Moving him out of the 2 hole didn't help either....he thrived there...

No offense, but this argument misses the point. Even when he's on the DL this is Junior's team. It will always be Junior's team, as long as he's on it. The point is, what if it can't be Dunn's team as long as Junior is around? I may be grasping at straws here, I don't know. But his not being in the lineup doesn't necessarily remove his presence from the team completely.