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View Full Version : Derek Jeter, MVP?



RedsManRick
10-07-2006, 03:33 PM
So, in all likelihood, Jeter is going to win the AL MVP this year. It's probably the 2nd best season of his sure-fire HoF career. Yet, another AL SS put up very similar numbers and gets ZERO pub.

Jeter: .344/.414/.482, 111 R, 97 RBI, 34 SB, 975 FLD%, 4.14 RF, .810 ZR
SS X: .320/.400/.519, 100 R, 85 RBI, 20 SB, 956 FLD%, 4.42 RF, .832 ZR

Jeter had a few more AB, mostly because of the ridiculous lineup he hits in. That also expains his lead in runs and rbi. He was a bit better on the basepaths, but clearly covers much less ground at SS, if perhaps a bit more reliable with the balls he does get to. However, that's not really the point. It's that Jeter is treated like he walks on water, while other great players get no attention.

If the Tigers beat the Yankees, they surely will be able to thank one of the best SS in baseball, Carlos Guillen. Go Tigers!

Edit -- For clarification, I should've titled this thread "Carlos Guillen is a good player". I don't care about whether or not Jeter wins the MVP. That wasn't really the point...

RedsBaron
10-07-2006, 03:38 PM
Jeter would have my vote for AL MVP, if I had a vote.

blumj
10-07-2006, 06:33 PM
I would have given it to Santana, because he's really the only AL player to totally separate himself from the pack at what he does. Lots of players had great seasons in all kinds of ways, but he was the only one who clearly and absolutely distinguished himself as the best overall at what he does.

RedsManRick
10-07-2006, 06:35 PM
There was text in the post, not just a title. Just wanted to make sure you guys noticed.... :confused:

dsmith421
10-07-2006, 06:36 PM
Hafner was the best player in the AL this year. But after seeing those marks, I'd say Guillen deserves it as much as Jeter.

penantboundreds
10-07-2006, 08:10 PM
SS X has worse stats in just about every category, don't hate for hate sakes.....when SS X plays in NY where he gets coverage (why they make more money) then he will get justification on being good but what does that have to do with Jeter and MVP...why compare to Jeter at all? He doesn't have the stats to be an MVP over anyone, so why mention his name and MVP in the same sentence? now should he get more recognition sure, but Jeter and MVP don't belong in the same sentence with Carlos Guillen

RedsManRick
10-07-2006, 09:22 PM
He has a higher OPS and is a superior fielder despite the errors. Put him in a lineup with 6 other MVPs, and he'd have Jeter's counting stats too. I have no problem with asserting Jeter as a great player. I'm not "hating" on Jeter. He's a HOF player and probably did have the better overall year. But suggesting that his line is vastly superior and that Guillen doesn't belong in the same setence is just ignoring the numbers altogether.

D-Man
10-08-2006, 10:48 PM
My MVP would be Joe Mauer, hands down. The last time a catcher won a batting title, our country was in the throes of WWII (Ernie Lombardi in 1942). I can't believe this hasn't gotten more pub. And I'm appalled that Mauer isn't even the top MVP candidate from his own team.

It's not like he loaded up ABs as a DH either; he only got 64 non-catching ABs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=7062&type=batting&year=2006

Just to put the nail in the coffin, none of the great catchers below have ever won a batting title:

Piazza
Pudge
Bench
Yogi Berra
Mickey Cochrane
Bill Dickey
Gabby Hartnett

These are some of the best hitting catchers of all time, and Mauer accomplished something that they never did (at age 23, no less).

GriffeyFan
10-09-2006, 10:43 AM
My vote would go to Justin Morneau (sp?)...

Highlifeman21
10-09-2006, 10:50 AM
Jeter leading the AL in winshares is just something you can't ignore. I think he's as overrated as they come, but leading your league in winshares is a good indicator of having a good year, or so someone told me.

M2
10-09-2006, 11:13 AM
I'd have voted for Jeter. Once again though, think the excellence of Vlad Guerrero has been overlooked. He carries his team like no one else in baseball.

RedsManRick
10-09-2006, 04:57 PM
Jeter leading the AL in winshares is just something you can't ignore. I think he's as overrated as they come, but leading your league in winshares is a good indicator of having a good year, or so someone told me.

Win shares is a good compromise between the "best player", "most valuable", "defense?", and "best player on a good team" camps -- even the "can pitcher's be the most valuable player" camp. It factors in raw performance, team performance, and performance relative to your teammates. I wasn't aware that Jeter led the AL, but I think that goes in his favor for sure.

(yes, even I will abandon my original point for the sake of conversation)

BTW, Pujols had 39 on a mediocre Cardinals team while missing 3 weeks. How amazing is that?

Highlifeman21
10-09-2006, 09:14 PM
Win shares is a good compromise between the "best player", "most valuable", "defense?", and "best player on a good team" camps -- even the "can pitcher's be the most valuable player" camp. It factors in raw performance, team performance, and performance relative to your teammates. I wasn't aware that Jeter led the AL, but I think that goes in his favor for sure.

(yes, even I will abandon my original point for the sake of conversation)

BTW, Pujols had 39 on a mediocre Cardinals team while missing 3 weeks. How amazing is that?

My question to the RedsZone faithful about the MVP award is this:

Should the MVP be the best overall season, or is the MVP the 1 player who helps his team the most?

Best overall season this year unfortunately was Jeter. Player that meant the most to his team, IMO was Travis Hafner.

dougdirt
10-09-2006, 09:57 PM
If I had a vote for MVP, I would give my first place vote to Justin Morneau. .321, 34 HR, 130 RBI on a team that went to the playoffs. My top 5 would probably go something like Morneau, Jeter, Dye, Vlad, Mauer.

oneupper
10-09-2006, 10:50 PM
I'd say Mauer. Getting that kind of production from a CATCHER (and a good one, too) is very rare and extremely valuable.

M2
10-09-2006, 11:28 PM
Just tossing this out there, but Jeter was 2nd in the AL VORP (79.2) behind Travis Hafner (80.4), who is a DH. Jeter led the AL in Win Shares (33). Joe Mauer was 2nd with 31. Boston's wonder twins, Papi and Manny tied for 3rd at 29. Justin Morneau was fifth with 27.

The objective measures out there lean heavily toward Mr. Jeter.

IMO, the NL MVP is a far more interesting matter. Ryan Howard got a lot of buzz because of his hot finish. Yet he was tied for 5th in Win Shares with David Wright at 31. Albert Pujols led the league with 39. Carlos Beltran was second with 38. Miggy Cabrera and Lance Berkman tied for 3rd with 34. Beltran's got my vote there because he was great in every phase of the game for the one team in the NL that truly mattered.

Cyclone792
10-09-2006, 11:50 PM
In the AL, Jeter's my pick with Mauer being the runner-up, but I could easily understand swapping those two. Getting that type of offensive production from a shortstop or a catcher is exceptionally vital to any team.

I'm leaning on Beltran right now in the NL with Pujols being the runner-up. Like Jeter/Mauer in the AL, getting the type of production the Mets got from Beltran as a center fielder is exceptionally valuable, and it's just a matter of positional adjustment for me in the difference between Beltran and Pujols. If Pujols doesn't miss a few weeks in the middle of the season, however, I'm likely picking Pujols first and Beltran second.

Puffy
10-10-2006, 03:04 PM
My question to the RedsZone faithful about the MVP award is this:

Should the MVP be the best overall season, or is the MVP the 1 player who helps his team the most?

Best overall season this year unfortunately was Jeter. Player that meant the most to his team, IMO was Travis Hafner.

Boy, I just love the New York bias that is so prevelent in this place. What happened to all the New York goodwill after 9/11? I liked that alot more.

M2
10-10-2006, 03:44 PM
My question to the RedsZone faithful about the MVP award is this:

Should the MVP be the best overall season, or is the MVP the 1 player who helps his team the most?

Best overall season this year unfortunately was Jeter. Player that meant the most to his team, IMO was Travis Hafner.

I'd say it should be the player who most helped a team that mattered. For instance, I don't really care what Travis Hafner did for an Indians team that spent the entire season in the "Who cares?" pile. The "imagine how bad they'd have been without him" argument doesn't wash with me. A) I'm guessing they'd have been a lot better than you'd think, B) I fail to see an ounce of value, at least from a leaguewide perspective, in being the difference maker between a bad team and a wretched team.

Add in that Hafner doesn't play the field and then you get into real specious territory as to his actual value even from a team perspective. Hafner may not even have been his team MVP thanks to Grady Sizemore, a good-hitting, fast CF. They finished in a dead heat in Win Shares.

Anyway it's always seemed to me that your team needs to put you in a position where your performance can affect the league if you want to make some sort of claim to being the league MVP. Otherwise you're just a guy with stats. I can see the argument for MVP if your stats are something historic, but barring that I've never been able to support the candidacy of a guy on a bad team. There's always some guys from good teams whose performance affected the league in far greater fashion.

So, for my money, no one from the Devil Rays, Orioles, Indians, Royals or Mariners deserves consideration for AL MVP.