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Kc61
10-08-2006, 02:12 PM
Assuming the money could be worked out. Straight up. No frills. Yes? No? (Assuming ARod would play short in Cincy.)

Mutaman
10-08-2006, 02:17 PM
Why would the Yankees want Dunn? Don't they have enough guys who disappear when it gets serious?

Kc61
10-08-2006, 02:18 PM
Why would the Yankees want Dunn? Don't they have enough guys who disappear when it gets serious?

Yankees love to stock left handed power because of the short porch at Yankee Stadium. Yankees always think they can fix hitting problems. Yanks also have the DH rule.

Those would be the reasons.

Shaknb8k
10-08-2006, 02:24 PM
I would do it in a heartbeat.....probably the only way i would trade dunn and not get pitching in return. But it will never happen.

Mutaman
10-08-2006, 02:26 PM
The Yankees now realize they've got enough overpaid stiffs around, why add annother one? Plus I assume they will get not resign Scheffield, but they will still have Abrau, Damon, Bernie, Matsui, Cabrera, Giambi and Wilson. Where would they play Dunn? The Yankees will be spending their bucks on young pitching in the future, not guys who hit .230, no matter how short their porch is.

pahster
10-08-2006, 02:40 PM
Sure, but why would the Yankees?

redsfan30
10-08-2006, 02:42 PM
Yes.

HotCorner
10-08-2006, 03:46 PM
Yes.

I believe the amount of money between the two is not a lot since Texas is still paying for a considerable amount of A-Rod's salary.

The reason I could see the Yankees doing this deal is to get younger since for the most part they are an older team. I believe Dunn hitting #2 in that lineup could finally breakout although with guys named Damon and Jeter he would never hit that high in the lineup.

GullyFoyle
10-08-2006, 03:51 PM
How about A-rod for Homer... the Yankees need young pitching?

(assuming the salary can be adjusted)

guttle11
10-08-2006, 03:55 PM
How about A-rod for Homer... the Yankees need young pitching?

(assuming the salary can be adjusted)

Yep. Twice.

Falls City Beer
10-08-2006, 04:01 PM
How about A-rod for Homer... the Yankees need young pitching?

(assuming the salary can be adjusted)

Only if the Yanks picked up 3/4 of his salary.

And that ain't gonna happen.

letsgojunior
10-08-2006, 04:06 PM
Here's a fact that bears repeating: $25.2 million.

That's half our payroll and when you combine it with Griffey it becomes about 70%. That totally handcuffs Krivsky in building any kind of decent team around those two players, and that's not even hitting on the fact that Griffey gets injured constantly and that A-Rod appears to have a serious mental block right now.

And besides the fact that he's getting a $25 M a year - he has a full no-trade clause. No offense to the Reds, but there's not a chance in hell in my opinion that he'd waive it to come here. A-Rod needs to prove that he can play on a championship team, not that he can pad stats on a team that will be out of it in September.

Mutaman
10-08-2006, 04:10 PM
How about A-rod for Homer... the Yankees need young pitching?

(assuming the salary can be adjusted)

Now why would we want to do that? If the Tigers/Yankees series proved yet once again that pitching is the name of the game. Why trade the brightest young pitching prospect we've had in 30 years for an overpaid headcase who folds under pressure. Plus if we sign A-Rod it would increase the payrole so much we wouldn't be able to sign anyone else. (The yankees aren't going to keep paying his salery). Lets keep Homer and use our extra money to sign a few guys of value who know how to win.

Plus, I want to see Bailey in a Reds uniform.

GullyFoyle
10-08-2006, 04:14 PM
To be honest I'm not sure where I come down on this idea, but I agree with Letsgojunior about the fiscal realities. Its seems to be a better hypothetical than a trade for Dunn though...

OldRightHander
10-08-2006, 04:17 PM
(Assuming ARod would play short in Cincy.)

I don't understand how playing here would affect his height.

vaticanplum
10-08-2006, 04:28 PM
Out of curiosity (because again, I don't think he will be traded), how do the financials break down? The Yankees don't currently pay A-Rod $25 million a year; a big chunk is picked up by Texas. If he is traded, is that voided or does Texas still have to pay?

edit: I just looked it up -- Texas pays him $7 million a year. Still not clear on whether that would carry over to another team.

pedro
10-08-2006, 04:30 PM
Here's a fact that bears repeating: $25.2 million.

That's half our payroll and when you combine it with Griffey it becomes about 70%. That totally handcuffs Krivsky in building any kind of decent team around those two players, and that's not even hitting on the fact that Griffey gets injured constantly and that A-Rod appears to have a serious mental block right now.

And besides the fact that he's getting a $25 M a year - he has a full no-trade clause. No offense to the Reds, but there's not a chance in hell in my opinion that he'd waive it to come here. A-Rod needs to prove that he can play on a championship team, not that he can pad stats on a team that will be out of it in September.

Texas pays 10 million/yr of Arod's salary. (Not that that makes it any more realistic.)

vaticanplum
10-08-2006, 04:36 PM
Pedro, I think your figure is closer. I got that $7 million from an article. Wikipedia says that Texas agreed to pay $67 million total on his contract, but it doesn't say how it breaks down.

Incidentally, while looking this up I was reminded of a clause in his contract that I had forgotten -- after the 2007 season, he can choose to be an unrestricted free agent. This makes even more sure that he will not leave the Yankees right now. At the very least he will stick it out for one more year; it would be a stupid move not to in every way.

RFS62
10-08-2006, 04:39 PM
Incidentally, while looking this up I was reminded of a clause in his contract that I had forgotten -- after the 2007 season, he can choose to be an unrestricted free agent. This makes even more sure that he will not leave the Yankees right now. At the very least he will stick it out for one more year; it would be a stupid move not to in every way.



If he became an unrestricted free agent, wouldn't that void his contract? If so, that would be the last thing he would ever do, I would think.

There will never be another idiot like Hicks bidding against himself for ARod.

pedro
10-08-2006, 04:43 PM
If he became an unrestricted free agent, wouldn't that void his contract? If so, that would be the last thing he would ever do, I would think.

There will never be another idiot like Hicks bidding against himself for ARod.

Hard to walk away from that much money to be where you want to. Then again, Dave Chappelle did it. If I was him and I'd do it. What's an extra 30 mill or so when you've already made 150?

letsgojunior
10-08-2006, 04:46 PM
Pedro, I think your figure is closer. I got that $7 million from an article. Wikipedia says that Texas agreed to pay $67 million total on his contract, but it doesn't say how it breaks down.

Incidentally, while looking this up I was reminded of a clause in his contract that I had forgotten -- after the 2007 season, he can choose to be an unrestricted free agent. This makes even more sure that he will not leave the Yankees right now. At the very least he will stick it out for one more year; it would be a stupid move not to in every way.

I found an ESPN article that breaks it down - it's actually an extraordinarily complex deal. Texas is stuck with the money they owe him - a lot of it has to do with deferred money - but if the Yankees were to trade A-Rod to the Reds, the Reds would have to pay him $16 M in '07 and '08, then $17 M in '09 and $18 M in '10. Essentially, Texas pays $43 M that they can't get rid of, and the Yanks pay $112 M.

Further, A-Rod has a number of 'perks' that make up for the present value diminution of his contract that occurred when he was traded. For instance, he's allowed to link his website to the Yankees website and has a hotel suite on roadtrips. Those would need to be accounted for, as would a deferred payment plan which according to this article, calls for $1 M to be set aside after each of the first four years with the Yankees and paid as a lump sum in 2011.

IMO, regardless of the money Texas pays, this contract is an antiquated relic of a financial era in baseball that no longer exists, and should not be touched really under any circumstances.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1735937

vaticanplum
10-08-2006, 04:47 PM
If he became an unrestricted free agent, wouldn't that void his contract? If so, that would be the last thing he would ever do, I would think.

There will never be another idiot like Hicks bidding against himself for ARod.

I assume it would void his contract, yes. He has the same option after the 2008 season too. So that's a good point.

I think the Red Sox would pick up A-Rod in a second, and pay him a whole lot of money too. I don't know if he'd agree to go there, though. But the Cubs, Dodgers, Angels, Orioles (they're always trying to spend money, nobody ever wants to take it), White Sox...I think they would shell out for him.

I'm totally speculating. I think he'll finish his contract with the Yankees.

pedro
10-08-2006, 04:48 PM
I'd agree with that LGJ.

letsgojunior
10-08-2006, 04:50 PM
If he became an unrestricted free agent, wouldn't that void his contract? If so, that would be the last thing he would ever do, I would think.

There will never be another idiot like Hicks bidding against himself for ARod.

I think it would be darn near impossible to void this contract. As part of the deal with the Yanks, Hicks bought A-Rod's house (I'm not kidding), and his luxury suites. Additionally, A-Rod is not just looking at the present value of the deal - he's got all kinds of deferred money coming to him. He would not be able to make anywhere near what he's currently getting, especially considering his recent collapse.

I think the best scenario for A-Rod at this point would be to stay with the Yankees and hope that the offseason and the Steinbrenner carnage cools down some Yankees fans. He's really in a no-win situation - if he leaves he's forever Mr. May.

RFS62
10-08-2006, 04:51 PM
I'd agree with that LGJ.


Me too. Nice research.

vaticanplum
10-08-2006, 04:54 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1735937

That deal is insane. You lawyers would have to explain to me why it is seemingly as complicated as possible. It seems to me that all that money could have been shelled out in a far simpler manner.

Yeah, he's staying in New York.

KronoRed
10-08-2006, 05:07 PM
The yanks aren't stupid, they need pitching, they will move A-Rod for it, we don't have it to deal.

Kc61
10-08-2006, 07:21 PM
If the Yanks want to trade A Rod, they can add cash to the deal and make it happen. They can also take other, unwanted contracts back, like perhaps Larue. (I know, I said a straight up deal.)

I'm not so sure it is impossible, financially, as many think. I do think that the Yanks would prefer pitching in return. I'm not a trader of Homer, Arroyo, or Harang. I doubt the Yanks would do it for any of the Reds' other pitchers.

Still, if the Yanks decide Alex must go, and if they are intrigued by Dunn, I think it could be worked out. As for ARod's ability to end his contract, keep in mind the Reds only have Dunn for one more year, then have to pay him 13 million for another year (option).

TeamBoone
10-09-2006, 01:52 AM
Hmmmmm, you think Dunn and Griffey makes to much money... but you support A-Rod's salary for the Reds?

That makes me laugh.

While I flat out don't want Dunn traded, I think I'd cry if he was deposited in NY... I think he would too.

oregonred
10-09-2006, 02:46 AM
Dunn would get absolutely skewered in NYC by the fans and the media. Especially if he posted a half season like what we just saw up close and personal. His laid back style is not at all a fit with the Yanks. If an all-world player like A-Rod has a wrap on him for not being clutch imagine what Dunn might possibly go through. He's perfect in a place like Cinci or better yet out to the West Coast somewhere.

A-Rod for $16M in 2007. Sounds ridiculous, but...

A-Rod + $10M = Junior/Larue/Milton. I wanna throw-up with the amount of flexibility the Reds have peed away once again next year due to previous contract mistakes... I'm just glad we don't have another 5/80M potential major mistake on the books with a Dunn LTC being inked.

oregonred
10-09-2006, 02:48 AM
And no A-Rod is not even a possiblity for the Reds.

I'd definitely take him in a second though by trading Dunn as the centerpiece if the financials could come close to working out.

reds44
10-09-2006, 03:34 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1735937


Under the deal, the Yankees pay Rodriguez $15 million in each of the next three seasons, $16 million each in 2007 and 2008, $17 million in 2009 and $18 million in 2010, according to contract information obtained by the AP from player and management sources.

In each of the first four years, $1 million will be deferred without interest, to be paid in 2011.

The trade calls for Texas to pay $43 million of Rodriguez's salary over the remaining seven years: $3 million in 2004, $6 million each in 2005, 2006 and 2010, $7 million apiece in 2007 and 2009 and $8 million in 2008. In addition, the Rangers will pay the $24 million remaining in deferred money from the original contract, with the interest rate lowered from 3 percent to 1.75 percent.

All the deferred money owed by Texas -- $36 million including salaries from 2001 to 2003 -- will be lumped with the original $10 million signing bonus, of which $4 million is still owed. The payout schedule will be pushed back to 2016-2025 from 2011-20.

In exchange for the alterations, which devalue the present-day value of the contract by $5 million, Rodriguez will receive a hotel suite on road trips, have the right to link his Web site to the Yankees' site and get a guarantee that the deferred money won't be wiped out by a work stoppage.


Now, imagine if he were to get traded again and the Yanks would have to eat some monehy also. Seriosuly it would be impossible to understand which teams are paying how much.

I think he (still) makes too much money to get. Who knows if he would want to play here anways?

TeamBoone
10-09-2006, 03:51 AM
Dunn would get absolutely skewered in NYC by the fans and the media. Especially if he posted a half season like what we just saw up close and personal. His laid back style is not at all a fit with the Yanks. If an all-world player like A-Rod has a wrap on him for not being clutch imagine what Dunn might possibly go through. He's perfect in a place like Cinci or better yet out to the West Coast somewhere.

Actually, I wasn't even referring to fan treatment. He's a country boy who would absolutely HATE it in NYC. I know he's from Houston, but not Houston proper. He was brought up 60 miles north of the city... in the country. He currently lives on the shore of an absolutely beautiful lake which is still 30-40 miles outside the city.

I just think he'd wither up in the concrete jungle and cry himself to sleep every night.

REDREAD
10-09-2006, 10:09 AM
Assuming the money could be worked out. Straight up. No frills. Yes? No? (Assuming ARod would play short in Cincy.)

I'd do that in a heartbeat.

KoryMac5
10-09-2006, 10:14 AM
ARod for Dunn would never ever happen. The Yankees desperately need pitching and it would take atleast Harang and Homer to get him. Cashman would laugh if we offered Dunn.

Johnny Footstool
10-09-2006, 10:18 AM
Why would the Yankees want Dunn? Don't they have enough guys who disappear when it gets serious?

That's 85% of the Reds current roster.

westofyou
10-09-2006, 12:07 PM
That deal is insane. You lawyers would have to explain to me why it is seemingly as complicated as possible. It seems to me that all that money could have been shelled out in a far simpler manner.

Yeah, he's staying in New York.

Alex Rodriguez
10 years/$252M (2001-10)

* $242M in annual salaries
* $10M signing bonus (paid $2M/year, 2001-05)


Salaries:
01-04:$21M/year, 05-06:$25M/year, 07-10:$27M/year

In December 2001 (a year after the contract was signed), Rodriguez agreed to defer $45M in annual salary to 2011-2020 at 3% interest (01:$3M, 02:$4M, 03:$5M, 04:$5M, 05:$5M, 06:$4M, 07:$4M, 08:$5M, 09:$5M, 10:$5M).


In February 2004, (three years after the contract was signed), Rodriguez waived his no-trade clause, allowing Texas to trade him to the Yankees. At the time, he had 7 years/$183M remaining on his contract.

Texas agreed to pay:

* the remaining $4M in signing bonus due, 2004-05 *
* $67M of the remaining $179M in salary, due 2004-10*


New York agreed to pay:

* $112 of the remaining $179M in salary, due 2004-10
* The Yankees get a $25M/year player for $16M/year.


* Deferred Money
Texas assumes responsibility for the following deferred amounts:

* the $12M in deferred salary earned from 2001 to 2003
* $24M of the deferred salary to be earned from 2004 to 2010, and the $4M in signing bonus which was to be paid from 2004 to 2005 but now will be deferred to 2016-2025 at 2% interest

All told, Texas is responsible for a total of $40M deferred at 2% interest.

In exchange for agreeing to the interest-rate reduction, Rodriguez received a hotel suite during road trips & right to link his web site to the Yankees’ site.

osuceltic
10-09-2006, 01:04 PM
Alan Cutler spent the afternoon talking about this on WLW yesterday. His numbers were a little off, but the basic point is the same.

Here's where I fall on this one:

-- I think something like Dunn-ARod (as the principles) is realistic in the sense that I don't think ARod will fetch what some suspect. It's still a lot of money and he carries some baggage at this point.

-- I don't think the Yankees do it because they don't need a DH. They're going to use ARod to fill holes -- pitching, third base. They might try Dunn at first, I guess. But it's not a pressing need.

-- ARod would be a great fit in Cincy at shortstop and batting third. No doubt. And if you could reach the point where ARod-Dunn is basically salary neutral, you'd be in good shape. But I doubt you'd reach that point. And the more important issue is filling other holes. You're still short a couple of starters, a closer, and a center fielder.

-- I think Dunn gets moved, but I think they use him to fill two or three holes. I'm guessing he brings back a pitcher and either a shortstop or a center fielder. He's their big bargaining chip -- they don't want to cash it in for a single big-money acquisition like ARod. And that's probably wise.

-- Look around for good, fairly young, defensively strong shortstops who might be available for trade. Start there. Personally, I wouldn't be shocked to see talks re-start with the Astros, with Adam Everett, Brad Lidge and another fairly significant player (either pitcher or outfielder) in the mix.

Johnny Footstool
10-09-2006, 01:07 PM
So if Dunn is used to "fill holes", how will the Reds fill the gaping hole in the offense after he is gone? Scott Hatteberg? Brandon "Don't Call Me Pokey" Phillips?

reds44
10-09-2006, 02:32 PM
A-Rod is owed base level $108 million for 2007-2010 (4 seasons), Texas is responsiple for $19 left on this, deferred to 2011-2020. So A-Rod is basically owned 4/$89 by the yankees. He'll probably also make another $1-3 in allstar, MVP, and gold glove incentives during this time, but we'll ignore that.

The Rangers covered 37% of ARods money due at the time of trade. If this would hold up in a trade with the Reds, you'd be looking at A-Rod for 4/$55 and the loss of players. Of course, that is way to good to be true from a financial standpoint because we'd only be assuming 51% of his total salary and there is no way the Yankees would agree to that much of a money exchange.

I'm guessing the Yankees and Reds would settle on 20-25% of ARod's contract ($18-$22 million), so more realistically A-Rod probablys costs 4/$67-71. We'd be paying him around $17 million a season (Pujols $16 million a season), when his contract is worth $27 million over that span. Taking $10 million off a season from his base total represents 37% of ARod's base money owed from this time period, which matches the Rangers costs exactly percentage wise. I think this is a very safe range of costs.

Is it worth it?

A-Rod for 4/$67-71
for
Dunn and maybe Milton?

johngalt
10-09-2006, 02:35 PM
If you're the Reds, any Dunn-to-Houston deal has to include Jason Hirsh. There's just not many other Astro pitching prospects that look very promising. Even Hirsh isn't necessarily a sure thing.

vaticanplum
10-09-2006, 02:57 PM
Actually, I wasn't even referring to fan treatment. He's a country boy who would absolutely HATE it in NYC. I know he's from Houston, but not Houston proper. He was brought up 60 miles north of the city... in the country. He currently lives on the shore of an absolutely beautiful lake which is still 30-40 miles outside the city.

I just think he'd wither up in the concrete jungle and cry himself to sleep every night.

Plenty of country folk, including plenty of baseball players, have gotten along in big cities just fine. Free meals at the country's best restaurants, private cars, entrance into clubs with all the free drinks and women in the world go a long way towards helping with that. He'd only have to be there about 3-4 months a year if he wanted. Three months traveling as he does now, a couple in Florida for spring training as he does now, the rest on his compound in Texas or whatever like he does now.

I'm not saying that he'd necessarily love it. But I don't think we should underestimate the power the all those perks -- not to mention the baseball perks that come with playing on either of those teams, the perpetual contention, the excellent coaching --- can exert over a human being, especially when he knows that it's temporary and he can retire with enough money to buy half of Texas if he wants to. country boy or not. Paul O'Neill had a great career in New York, adjusted just fine, enjoyed a lot of advantages there and still does, and moved back to Ohio where he is quite happy as I understand it.

I will repeat, though, that I don't think A-Rod is going anywhere, and I don't really think that Dunn is either (and if he does, it won't be in exchange for A-Rod).

osuceltic
10-09-2006, 03:05 PM
Plenty of country folk, including plenty of baseball players, have gotten along in big cities just fine. Free meals at the country's best restaurants, private cars, entrance into clubs with all the free drinks and women in the world go a long way towards helping with that. He'd only have to be there about 3-4 months a year if he wanted. Three months traveling as he does now, a couple in Florida for spring training as he does now, the rest on his compound in Texas or whatever like he does now.

I'm not saying that he'd necessarily love it. But I don't think we should underestimate the power the all those perks -- not to mention the baseball perks that come with playing on either of those teams, the perpetual contention, the excellent coaching --- can exert over a human being, especially when he knows that it's temporary and he can retire with enough money to buy have of Texas if he wants to. country boy or not. Paul O'Neill had a great career in New York, adjusted just fine, enjoyed a lot of advantages there and still does, and moved back to Ohio where he is quite happy as I understand it.

I will repeat, though, that I don't think A-Rod is going anywhere, and I don't really think that Dunn is either (and if he does, it won't be in exchange for A-Rod).


I'd also say Dunn would enjoy "blending in" in NY instead of being the key guy for the Reds. He'd go to NY, bat seventh, be about sixth in line for the media after the game and go about his business.

If there is one thing I'd think we all can agree on about Dunn, it's that he doesn't seem to be cut out to be "The Man" -- at least not yet. I think he'd enjoy being a backup singer.

Johnny Footstool
10-09-2006, 04:55 PM
Dunn being traded to the Yankees would be Paul O'Neill redux.

registerthis
10-09-2006, 06:42 PM
So if Dunn is used to "fill holes", how will the Reds fill the gaping hole in the offense after he is gone? Scott Hatteberg? Brandon "Don't Call Me Pokey" Phillips?

Well, in the context of this conversation, I would say ARod would do that.

but this conversation is beyond moot...ARod might have eaten some Skyline CHili once or twice, but that's about as close to Cincinnati as he's going to get.

OnBaseMachine
10-09-2006, 08:43 PM
If you're the Reds, any Dunn-to-Houston deal has to include Jason Hirsh. There's just not many other Astro pitching prospects that look very promising. Even Hirsh isn't necessarily a sure thing.

Any Dunn deal with Houston would have to involve BOTH Hirsh and Troy Patton coming back to the Reds.

redsfan4445
10-09-2006, 10:56 PM
what if Jr went to the Reds and said he would talk A-Rod into coming here and batting 4th behind him?? with a package of Dunn,Larue and edwin(for the Yanks taking on LaRues contract) and Travis Wood (Dunn and LaRues contract is just about equal to one year of what the Yankees have to pay A-Rod ) for A-Rod,, then signing either Hunter or Wells or Cameron to play CF with Jr moving to Left so there is power behind A-Rod to protect him with Hunter or Cameron..

Now think of this also.. if Barry Bonds (who stated before is last contract he would love to play next to Jr) came here to bat behind A-Rod?? and then Bob went after Joe Torre and Don Zimmer as his bench coach and let Joe pick the rest of his coaching staff, what kind of lure would the Reds get a big name pitcher to come here too like Schmidt??
I know this all seems crazy to think, but i have a inner feeling BOB is going to make a splash trade this off season.. either A-rod or Tejada is my guess for a SS..
if edwin is used to get A-Rod, i see Aureila staying here to play 3rd till the Reds can go after another 3B for the future.. (maybe sign Boone to back up 3rd and 1st for 2007)..

i know im dreaming but its fun..and im tired of the Cardinals always making the playofs over the Reds!!

i honestly doubt Barry Bonds coming here (think of how many he would try and put in the Ohio River!!)... and or Wells or Hunter.. heck maybe if Jose Guillen is healthy he can come back to play RF.. he hit well last time with the Reds! and could protect A-Rod as well..

anyway just my thoughts.. and i hope the Reds do something big for 2007!!

reds44
10-09-2006, 11:31 PM
Why would you give up Dunn AND Edwin for A-Rod?

For all we know Edwin could turn into a .300/25 HR/50 2B/100 RBI guy, and we already know Dunn is good for a .380 OBP/40 HR/100 RBI. If Edwin would have played the entire year he would have probably hit around .290 and had 100 RBI.

No way I trade a 23 year old and 26 year old stud for A-Rod. No chance.

johngalt
10-10-2006, 01:00 AM
Any Dunn deal with Houston would have to involve BOTH Hirsh and Troy Patton coming back to the Reds.

I completely forgot about Patton somehow. I guess I'm just thinking of all those rumors from the last couple years that involved Nieve, Buchholz, etc. that seemed extremely underwhelming. Patton would definitely be interesting.

LoganBuck
10-10-2006, 01:31 AM
Dunn Larue and Coffey for ARod + $3million/year from Yankees + Texas Money

The Yankees would not want Travis Wood. He is too far away for their win now philosophy. Edwin and Dunn is just stupid to suggest, way to one sided for the Yankees. ARod is a scratch and dent sale. They can not get top value in return for him because of his contract, the fans lack of sensibility and Cashman being George's lapdog.

Johnny Footstool
10-10-2006, 10:45 AM
Well, in the context of this conversation, I would say ARod would do that.

but this conversation is beyond moot...ARod might have eaten some Skyline CHili once or twice, but that's about as close to Cincinnati as he's going to get.

The comment I was replying to speculated that Dunn will be traded, but not for someone like ARod, but rather to fill holes.

registerthis
10-10-2006, 10:48 AM
The comment I was replying to speculated that Dunn will be traded, but not for someone like ARod, but rather to fill holes.

Ah, gotcha. I was skimming, not reading apparently.

Krusty
10-10-2006, 10:50 AM
How about Dunn and Milton to Detroit for RHPs Bonderman and Rodney along with OF Craig Monroe?

Chip R
10-10-2006, 11:42 AM
Incidentally, while looking this up I was reminded of a clause in his contract that I had forgotten -- after the 2007 season, he can choose to be an unrestricted free agent. This makes even more sure that he will not leave the Yankees right now. At the very least he will stick it out for one more year; it would be a stupid move not to in every way.

Assuming he were traded, since he's in the middle of a long term deal and has the necessary service time, couldn't he just demand a trade after the next season and if it doesn't happen, declare free agency?

LoganBuck
10-10-2006, 01:57 PM
Assuming he were traded, since he's in the middle of a long term deal and has the necessary service time, couldn't he just demand a trade after the next season and if it doesn't happen, declare free agency?

I am pretty sure you are correct Chip. I totally forgot that. I would much rather see a deal with Detroit anyway, much like Krusty suggested.

reds44
10-10-2006, 06:11 PM
Here is a breakdown of A-Rod's contract.

2001: 22M+2M signing bonus+300K performance bonus-5M deferred
2002: 22M+2M signing bonus+300K performance bonus-4M deferred
2003: 22M+2M signing bonus+800K performance bonus-3M deferred
----
2004: 22M+2M signing bonus+200K performance bonus-3M assignment bonus-1M deferred (Texas pays 3M)
2005: 26M+2M signing bonus+1.2M performance bonus-4M assignment bonus-1M deferred (Texas pays 6M)
2006: 26M+100K performance bonus-4M assignment bonus-1M deferred (Texas pays 6M)
---
2007: 27M-4M assignment bonus-1M deferred (Texas pays 7M)
2008: 27M-3M assignment bonus (Texas pays 8M)
2009: 32M-3M assignment bonus(Texas pays 7M)
2010: 32M-3M assignment bonus (Texas pays 6M)
How much the Rangers and Yankees are/ have been/ will be paying him:
Year/ Rangers/ Yankees/ overall
2001: 19.3M/ 0/ 19.3
2002: 20.3M/ 0/ 20.3
2003: 21.8M/ 0/ 21.8
2004: 5M/ 15.2/ 20.2
2005: 8M/ 16.2/ 24.2
2006: 6M/ 15.1/21.1
2007: 7M/ 15/ 22
2008: 8M/ 16/ 24
2009: 7M/ 22/ 28
2010: 6M/ 23/ 29

Yankees after the contract expires:
2011: 4M

Rangers after the contract expires:
2016: 5M
2017: 4M
2018: 3M
2019: 3M
2020: 4M
2021: 4M
2022: 4M
2023: 3M
2024: 3M
2025: 3M

Reds4Life
10-10-2006, 07:53 PM
Reports out of NY right now have Brian Cashman stating that A-Rod isn't going to be traded.

paulrichjr
10-10-2006, 10:27 PM
Did anyone read any of the comments about Arod from Cashman? One article I read talked about them getting a number of inquiries during the season about his availability but he rebuffed all of them. Then when the season ended he got an email from a GM asking about ARod. He called this guy a buzzard. Sounds like Bowden to me.

Reds4Life
10-10-2006, 10:39 PM
Did anyone read any of the comments about Arod from Cashman? One article I read talked about them getting a number of inquiries during the season about his availability but he rebuffed all of them. Then when the season ended he got an email from a GM asking about ARod. He called this guy a buzzard. Sounds like Bowden to me.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15211672/


NEW YORK - Joe Torre will be back with the New York Yankees and it looks as though A-Rod will be, too.

General manager Brian Cashman said the team had no intention of trading Alex Rodriguez, who failed to drive in a run in the playoffs for the second straight year and was dropped to eighth in the batting order.

“I fully expect him to be here,” Cashman said Tuesday. “We’re going to figure this thing out together.”

Cashman doesn't talk out of both sides of his mouth like Bowden, if he says ARod is staying I'd take him at his word.

HotCorner
10-11-2006, 10:41 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15211672/

Cashman doesn't talk out of both sides of his mouth like Bowden, if he says ARod is staying I'd take him at his word.

Cashman never states that A-Rod is not available nor that he will not be traded. Rather he says "expects him to be here" which is GM code for "wow me and he's yours."

HotCorner
10-11-2006, 10:45 AM
Also the notion that the Yankees have to get pitching in return for A-Rod is not true. The Yankees will be big players in any big free agent starter like Zito, Schmidt, Daisuke Matsuzaka, etc ...

If they are able to land two of these three, they would return a rotation of Wang, Mussina (I expect them to retain him), Johnson and two from above plus they still have Pavano.

Falls City Beer
10-11-2006, 04:31 PM
That a Dunn for Jason bleepin' Hirsh deal is even being entertained is absolutely gut-wrenching.