things we need... players who fit that

[swingman24]

1. a top of the rotation guy... i love harang and arroyo but they are #3 pitchers not 1 and 2.... so i would grab:

Barry Zito- he's the lefty we've been searching for , milton and claussen aren't good enough but zito's curveball would fit great in GABP. he will be pricey but if the ownership group is as serious as they seem they need to do this.

2. a right handed power bat... we have the leftys in the order but we have absolutely no power from the right side... so i would grab:

Alfonso Soriano- his power in our ballpark would be jus ridiculous we saw what he could do first hand we he knocked one clear over the batter's eye. He will be extremely expensive but worth it, he would play 2B and allows us to move Phillips to short.

3. A CLOSER!!- eddie will not do it and no one looks like a great closer in our system right now so im takin:

Danys Baez- he has been a very consistantly good closer and would do wonders for this team.

4. a little more speed and contact- phillips and freel are our only speed unless we do get soriano but we still strike out too much... lets fix that by:

Trading Adam Dunn and Jason LaRue for Carl Crawford and Edwin Jackson
Analysis- Crawford gives us a real leadoff hitter and he hardly ever strikes out and Jackson is still on 23 and has great stuff... but people have given up on him just like they were giving up on Phillips

Lineup:
1. Carl Crawford LF
2. Brandon Phillips SS
3. Ken Griffey Jr. CF
4. Alfonso Soriano 2B
5. Scott Hatteberg/Joey Votto 1B
6. Edwin Encarnacion 3B
7. David Ross C
8. Ryan Freel RF
9. P

Bench:
C Javier Valentin
IF Juan Castro
IF Rich Aurilia
OF Chris Denorfia
OF Todd Hollandsworth

Rotation:
1. Barry Zito
2. Aaron Harang
3. Bronson Arroyo
4. Kyle Lohse
5. Edwin Jackson/Homer Bailey/Brandon Claussen/Eric Milton/Elizardo Ramirez

Bullpen:

Rightys:
Todd Coffey
David Weathers
Gary Majewski
Danys Baez (Closer)
Matt Belisle

Leftys:
Bill Bray
Scott Schoeneweis

I think all this is very possible, do you??

[guttle11]

There's not enough money to sign both Zito and Soriano, and probably not enough to sign either one, realistically.

Trading Dunn for Carl Crawford should simply not happen. Never. I wouldn't mind getting Crawford, but only after trading Dunn for an Ervin Santana + prospect type package.

[fadetoblack2880]

why trade dunn at all? he may strike out alot, but that's no reason to send 40 homers to an opponent. griffey will not replace the homers lost by trading dunn. nor will encarnacion, phillips and carl crawford. realistically, who on this team has a high trade value right now besides harang and arroyo? i don't believe phillips has really proven that he can be a power threat and neither has encarnacion. this team had very little offense after july 13th trade, so where is the logic in dealing away the only true 40 homer guy in the lineup?

[swingman24]

soriano fixes the loss of dunn's homers with his own and im sorry im not looking past the 200 strikeouts every year just because he hits 40 home runs .. if u haven't noticed home runs dont win u anythin...

[fadetoblack2880]

soriano won't be in a reds uniform next year. and if homers don't win anything, then why pick him up anyways. he isn't that great of a second baseman and will be much more expensive than dunn is now.

[UC_Ken]

1. a top of the rotation guy... i love harang and arroyo but they are #3 pitchers not 1 and 2.... so i would grab:

Look at the NL pitcher stats this season. The top of almost all of those stats has either Harang or Arroyo. Wins, IP, K stats all belonged to those two guys this year. If they are #3s then the NL has no 1s or 2s.

As for the point of the post, I completely agree with the need for right handed power. The best fit for me if Atlanta is willing to deal is Andruw Jones. I don't think Atlanta would be interested in Dunn so it would likely have to be a three team deal. This allows Griffey to move to left and significantly improves OF defense while not reducing offensive output at all.

[fadetoblack2880]

i'm all for improving this team and acquiring a guy like andruw jones would be nice, but what's the likelihood of something that taking place? getting rid of dunn will not solve any problems. most likely it will only create more...

[flyer85]

Zito is a California guy, he won't be coming to Cincinnati.

BTW, that suggested lineup would be hands down the worst defensive lineup in baseball.

[fadetoblack2880]

yup and offensively, not much to write home about either...

[TOBTTReds]

if u haven't noticed home runs dont win u anythin

Whoa...I basically jumped out of my seat on this one. You have to be kidding me.

[ChatterRed]

Look at the NL pitcher stats this season. The top of almost all of those stats has either Harang or Arroyo. Wins, IP, K stats all belonged to those two guys this year. If they are #3s then the NL has no 1s or 2s.

As for the point of the post, I completely agree with the need for right handed power. The best fit for me if Atlanta is willing to deal is Andruw Jones. I don't think Atlanta would be interested in Dunn so it would likely have to be a three team deal. This allows Griffey to move to left and significantly improves OF defense while not reducing offensive output at all.


You beat me to it. I have watched the NL pitching stats all year, too......and those two are in the top 5 or 10 of nearly every category. I'm tired of hearing how they're #3's. They're both young and doing well for this early in their careers. They should both be coming into their own.

The number one thing this management should be doing this offseason is trying to trade or unload (however you look at it), our four highest paid players - Griffey, Dunn, Milton, and LaRue. You unload all those guys and magically get something in return.............but don't add much payroll........then you can sign a Soriano and a Zito. I would absolutely love that. I would even be in favor of signing an Andrew Jones for CF. Add Jones and Soriano to the OF, move Phillips to SS, put unsung hero Aurilia at 2B and this lineup is set.

Having 3 quality starters in....
1. Zito
2. Arroyo
3. Harang
....would be the envy of all of the NL.

And our bullpen is not that bad.

[jmac]

Look at the NL pitcher stats this season. The top of almost all of those stats has either Harang or Arroyo. Wins, IP, K stats all belonged to those two guys this year. If they are #3s then the NL has no 1s or 2s.

very well said.lots talk of zito yet compare his 3.83 era to harang's and BA's.
harang has a 3.73 with 216 k's yet he may be a "#3"?
i'll take 5 harang's please.....

[westofyou]

if u haven't noticed home runs dont win u anythin...

Babe Ruth says hi.

[dunner13]

Harang is a number one. Arroyo a sure number two and possibly even a number one if he can be consistent for a full season. D-rays wont take dunn for crawford, if they wanted an outfielder they would keep the cheaper one they have who doesnt strike out every other at bat, they want a top young starter to match with kazmir. So if you want crawford you have to give up bailey because that is the only pitcher we have that fits what they want.

[Will M]

Big things we need:

1. a SP who can at least be a #3 starter to slot being Arroyo and Harang.
Someone who can pitch 220 innings with a sub 4.00 ERA.
if we can't get this by trading Dunn or Jr we will have to look at 2nd tier free agents ( Ohka, Padilla, etc ). I just would love Zito but I don't see it happening.

2. move Dunn or Griffey ( with the other playing LF ). I think several AL teams could be interested. What we could get in return is anyone's guess.
The 'new' Reds will be pitching and defense and we can't have Dunn in LF with Griffey in CF. The OF defense this year was terrible.

Assuming we move Dunn or Griffey we will need a slugging RF to replace them.
The OF would be Dunn/KGJ in LF, Freel and Deno in CF & ??? in RF.
We would need someone who can hit AND play the defense for RF ( or CF with Deno and Freel in RF ). Milton Bradley?, Sheffield???, Jose Guillen? are all free agents.

3. Resign Aurillia. Plays 1B vs LHP. Plays some at 2b ( with Phillips at SS ).
Backs up EE at 3b.

4. Resign Weathers. Consider resigning Schowenweis.

There are NO closers available so the best option for the Reds is depth of decent major league relievers.
Bray, Cormier, Schowenweis, Coffey, Majik & Weathers gives you 6 solid middle relievers. MUCH better than the start of 2006.

These four are what I consider the priorities.
Other moves are:

5. Try to find takers for Milton and LaRue ( good luck )

6. Send Votto to the instructional league to work on his defense.
WK says his bat is ready but not his glove.
If Votto is ready Hatteberg could go to the bench and the Reds will be a better deeper team.

7. Look for one more veteran for depth. Lots of Reds are fragile or wear down.
Freel and Aurillia are flexible so the extra player could almost play anywhere. Players I am thinking of are Kenny Lofton, Dave Roberts, Jose Valentin, Craig Counsell.

- Will

[dman]

Homeruns must account for something, seeing it is the crown jewel of all offensive statistics. And they do win quite a bit both directly and indirectly. Adam Dunn, David Ross, and Junior also say hi.

[RedFanAlways1966]

if u haven't noticed home runs dont win u anythin...

More hellos from... Bill Mazeroski ('60 WS), Chris Chambliss ('76 ALCS), Joe Carter ('93 WS), Ozzie Smith & Jack Clark ('85 NLCS), Tony Perez ('67 ASG), Kirk Gibson ('88 WS), Bobby Thomson ('51 NL) and Frank "Home Run" Baker ('11 WS).

[Redsfan08]

Truthfully I would be upset if we got Zito yes zito is a great pitcher but the thing is I love bary zito has a player and I just dont think cincinnati will work out for him. I think if he is gonna go to a nl team it needs to be the Padres cause that ballpark is huge and would fit him perfectly but I would love to get Tim Hudson I hope I dont take any heat for this.