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Reds4Life
10-08-2006, 11:36 PM
In about 3 minutes on Ch 9, talking about the offseason.

I'll post any tidbits for those out of the viewing area.

Reds4Life
10-08-2006, 11:49 PM
Not much worth reporting yet, but he did say that Bronson and Harang going a lot of innings let Narron use the bullpen "the right way, the way he wants too". :laugh: :bang:

edabbs44
10-08-2006, 11:54 PM
Not much worth reporting yet, but he did say that Bronson and Harang going a lot of innings let Narron use the bullpen "the right way, the way he wants too". :laugh: :bang:

:help:

Reds4Life
10-08-2006, 11:58 PM
More notes:

When Popo asked about moving Junior to a corner he didn't commit, saying we'll see. Also said it would be up to Narron in spring training.

He called Dunn one of the premire power hitters in the game, dismissed the strikeouts saying it's normal for most power hitters due to a longer swing. When you take the walks into account he said Dunn is impressive.

More after the commercial.

Reds4Life
10-09-2006, 12:12 AM
More stuff:

Krivsky said he couldn't be happier with Narron, and he's very pleased with his performance. He judges a manager on the talent he's given, thinks Narron got the most out of the Reds. Used the words "outstanding job". That loud noise you just heard was FCB's head exploding. ;)

EdwinE is the 3rd basemen of the future; he's working with Dent a lot to cut down on the errors.

The Reds are going to exercise their end of the mutual option on Aurilla's contract, doesn't know what Rich will do, has a meeting with his agent soon.

There was a split camp within the front office about brining Bailey up; he made the decision to keep him in the minors. Said he pitched enough innings in the minors and had some shoulder tendentious during the year, wasn't worth risking injury at his age.

Milton will be throwing again in December, the injuries are nothing serious.

Thus ends the interview.

Johnny Footstool
10-09-2006, 12:20 AM
He called Dunn one of the premire power hitters in the game, dismissed the strikeouts saying it's normal for most power hitters due to a longer swing. When you take the walks into account he said Dunn is impressive.


Here's hoping he means that.

And thanks for posting this, Reds4Life.

reds44
10-09-2006, 12:41 AM
Krivsky said he couldn't be happier with Narron, and he's very pleased with his performance. He judges a manager on the talent he's given, thinks Narron got the most out of the Reds. Used the words "outstanding job". That loud noise you just heard was FCB's head exploding.

Ehh I disagree, but there are bigger issues with this team.


EdwinE is the 3rd basemen of the future; he's working with Dent a lot to cut down on the errors.

Good to hear.


The Reds are going to exercise their end of the mutual option on Aurilla's contract, doesn't know what Rich will do, has a meeting with his agent soon.
Good to hear.



There was a split camp within the front office about brining Bailey up; he made the decision to keep him in the minors. Said he pitched enough innings in the minors and had some shoulder tendentious during the year, wasn't worth risking injury at his age.


Good choice.



Milton will be throwing again in December, the injuries are nothing serious.

Good to hear.

Thanks Mod.

KronoRed
10-09-2006, 03:22 AM
Thanks Reds4 :)

SirFelixCat
10-09-2006, 04:03 AM
Good stuff, sans the Narron part, but still good.


Thanks for the posting.

RedFanAlways1966
10-09-2006, 07:48 AM
Thanks for the recap, R4L! :thumbup:

Strikes Out Looking
10-09-2006, 07:56 AM
More stuff:

Krivsky said he couldn't be happier with Narron, and he's very pleased with his performance.

Anybody else depressed about this? Between the news about Pinella possibly going to the Yankees and this quote, I am ready to jump off a bridge!

redsmetz
10-09-2006, 08:10 AM
Anybody else depressed about this? Between the news about Pinella possibly going to the Yankees and this quote, I am ready to jump off a bridge!

Oh good Lord. It's a friggin' game!

redsmetz
10-09-2006, 08:13 AM
Regarding Krivsky's comments on Jerry Narron... either WK is a complete idiot (and there are those on RZ who believe that) or he knows something about Jerry Narron that causes him to hold him in high esteem. I thought it was important that he commented that he judges a manager on the talent he's given, thinks Narron got the most out of the Reds. Used the words "outstanding job". Narron didn't have a lot to start with, it improved somewhat during the season. We'll see next year.

RedsManRick
10-09-2006, 08:42 AM
Regarding Krivsky's comments on Jerry Narron... either WK is a complete idiot (and there are those on RZ who believe that) or he knows something about Jerry Narron that causes him to hold him in high esteem. I thought it was important that he commented that he judges a manager on the talent he's given, thinks Narron got the most out of the Reds. Used the words "outstanding job". Narron didn't have a lot to start with, it improved somewhat during the season. We'll see next year.

I'm not gonna sing Narron's praises, but anybody who thinks any other manager (especially Pinella) would've led this team to the playoffs is fooling themselves in my opinion. Managers are just managers. Their on the field decisions over the course of the decision rarely mean more than a few games either direction. Narron isn't Baker or Bochy, completely mishanding a staff and making horrible substitutions. I have yet to see a manager where people like their decisions in fact. It's just cycle them through and complain. How about we worry about the 3-5 spots in the rotation, the closer, and getting Junior out of CF.

MWM
10-09-2006, 09:00 AM
When's the last time a GM went on TV and said they thought the manager was doing a poor job? It doesn't happen, and rightfully so. That's why I just don't pay attention to these types of appearances. They're meant to be face time with their fans, nothing more. Nothing of value is hardly ever said.

redsfan30
10-09-2006, 09:16 AM
Thanks for the recap!

KoryMac5
10-09-2006, 09:19 AM
I would love to see Sweet Lou back in Red but we just don't have the money to spend on a manager. The Yankees are going to pay Lou big dollars I would rather spend that on a player who can help us.

oneupper
10-09-2006, 09:28 AM
I don't like that Krivsky likes Narron, but I like the fact that WK realizes that the team is not very talented.

Hopefully, he'll work to fix that.

Matt700wlw
10-09-2006, 02:34 PM
First, Wayne isn't going to go public if he doesn't like Narron....that's not professional. If they would bring in somebody else, the reason would be "to go a different direction."

Second, him saying Narron did the best he could with the talent he was given tells me that Krivsky knows HE has more work to do to give Jerry more to work with it.

I don't think DanO ever expressed this in his short (but felt like a very long) tenure.

Dom Heffner
10-09-2006, 03:15 PM
I just wish the Reds would finally figure out what the Bengals did.

Stop wasting money (however little) on guys like Narron, Shula, LeBeau and get somebody who knows what they are doing.

If managers don't matter and they only swing the season one or two games, why even have one?

I don't buy that at all.

I think it matters even more on a small market team in the National League.

NJReds
10-09-2006, 03:21 PM
If managers don't matter and they only swing the season one or two games, why even have one?

I don't buy that at all.

I think it matters even more on a small market team in the National League.

Who would you want?

I've read a lot of Redszone posts about managers, and I'm having trouble finding a manager (except for Sparky Anderson) who anyone thinks is any good.

Reds4Life
10-09-2006, 03:23 PM
Who would you want?

I've read a lot of Redszone posts about managers, and I'm having trouble finding a manager (except for Sparky Anderson) who anyone thinks is any good.

Someone who doesn't have a career losing record would be a nice start.

Oh, and stop farming the spot out to the lowest bidder, which seems to be the Reds MO for hiring the last 3 or 4 managers.

westofyou
10-09-2006, 03:27 PM
Stop wasting money (however little) on guys like Narron, Shula, LeBeau and get somebody who knows what they are doing.

And there lies the rub, a baseball manager does more then 1/2 his job behind the scenes, in teh clubhouse and with the players. Comparison to football coaches should automatically go out the window, it's like comnparing coke and kool aid, two similar things, but not really when you poke at it more and more. Football coaches are about "systems" applied to 16 games baseball manager are a diffrent animal.

westofyou
10-09-2006, 03:28 PM
I've read a lot of Redszone posts about managers, and I'm having trouble finding a manager (except for Sparky Anderson) who anyone thinks is any good.

yep, the two longest tenured managers in MLB get a lot of flak here and on their own boards, that speaks volumns as far as I'm concerned.

Ravenlord
10-09-2006, 03:30 PM
I've read a lot of Redszone posts about managers, and I'm having trouble finding a manager (except for Sparky Anderson) who anyone thinks is any good.

Larry Dierker
Davy Johnson
Jim Tracy if he has a strong pitching coach
Bobby Cox
Joe Torre
Joe Girardi

NJReds
10-09-2006, 04:21 PM
Oh, and stop farming the spot out to the lowest bidder, which seems to be the Reds MO for hiring the last 3 or 4 managers.

I agree with that. Alledgedly that's what happened with Willie Randolph.

Hoosier Red
10-09-2006, 05:36 PM
Someone who doesn't have a career losing record would be a nice start.

Oh, and stop farming the spot out to the lowest bidder, which seems to be the Reds MO for hiring the last 3 or 4 managers.

Joe Torre's career winning % before going to the Yankees?
Oh that's right, I'm sure he just got smart in the late 90's and has taken dum dum pills in the playoffs the last few years.

Dom Heffner
10-09-2006, 05:43 PM
Comparison to football coaches should automatically go out the window, it's like comnparing coke and kool aid, two similar things, but not really when you poke at it more and more. Football coaches are about "systems" applied to 16 games baseball manager are a diffrent animal.


I'm not saying that football coaches and baseball managers are the same animal (and I would never compare Coke to Kool-Aid lol).

What I'm saying is that the Bengals tried to be cheap about it, just like the Reds are, and they finally learned.

Dave Shula= Jerry Narron.

Not in job duties, certainly.

The similarity lies in the fact that there's no experience, thus we don't have to pay them anything.

You get what you pay for sometimes.

Matt700wlw
10-09-2006, 05:45 PM
Joe Torre's career winning % before going to the Yankees?
Oh that's right, I'm sure he just got smart in the late 90's and has taken dum dum pills in the playoffs the last few years.

http://www.dutchvalleyfoods.com/food/images/catimages/732181.jpg

Mario-Rijo
10-09-2006, 06:00 PM
Krivsky said he couldn't be happier with Narron, and he's very pleased with his performance. He judges a manager on the talent he's given, thinks Narron got the most out of the Reds. Used the words "outstanding job". That loud noise you just heard was FCB's head exploding.

Hmmm, don't think I completely agree with this. However if that's what Krivsky believes then I can only assume that means we will see at least a solid upgrade in more than 1 or 2 areas. If not then we should come to the conclusion that maybe the FO is only talking a good game!? Talent upgrade, Yes Please!

Spring~Fields
10-09-2006, 06:59 PM
He judges a manager on the talent he's given, thinks Narron got the most out of the Reds.

Krivsky admitting that the Reds just don't currently have the talent is a start.
Hopefully he will end his thirst for other teams rejects and move on toward obtaining this "talent" that he references.

redsmetz
10-09-2006, 07:06 PM
Joe Torre's career winning % before going to the Yankees?
Oh that's right, I'm sure he just got smart in the late 90's and has taken dum dum pills in the playoffs the last few years.

I have been pointing this out ad infinitum. And Sparky Anderson had NO major league experience prior to managing the Reds. Give Jerry Narron some ballplayers and a team that is not in flux, and he can do wonders.

TeamBoone
10-10-2006, 12:24 AM
Give Jerry Narron the Big Red Machine and he'd be winning too... and probably be as loved as Sparky Anderson, though I'm not sure because RZ is a tough crowd to please.

wolfboy
10-10-2006, 01:14 AM
Joe Torre's career winning % before going to the Yankees?
Oh that's right, I'm sure he just got smart in the late 90's and has taken dum dum pills in the playoffs the last few years.

I won't disagree with the notion that talent will make the manager. At the same time, Torre has done one hell of a job from an ego management perspective over the years. I think a large part of Sparky's success could be categorized in the same way. It can't be easy getting a roster full of stars to dedicate themselves to a team first mentality. Sparky and Torre were both successful in doing that. Unfortunately, Torre may have lost his touch. I think the tensions between A-Rod and the rest of the team have soured the clubhouse. Torre couldn't mitigate the damage, and it's probably going to cost him his job.

WMR
10-10-2006, 01:19 AM
I have been pointing this out ad infinitum. And Sparky Anderson had NO major league experience prior to managing the Reds. Give Jerry Narron some ballplayers and a team that is not in flux, and he can do wonders.



While the team obviously lost an offensive weapon, Adam Dunn lost protection in the lineup. Dunn hit 40 home runs this season, but only two of those came in September, when he batted .161 with five RBIs.

"Losing Griffey was huge," said Reds manager Jerry Narron. "Not only did we lose our top clutch hitter, it changed the way they pitched to Dunn."




Here's what amazes me about this sentence:

Narron acknowledges that Dunn has been better when hitting IN FRONT of Griffey in the lineup.

Narron acknowledges that pitchers approach Dunn differently when he has a Hall of Famer behind him rather than Scott Hatteberg or Brandon Phillips.

But yet when Dunn and Griffey were both healthy and in the lineup, what did Narron do the majority of the time?

Right - he hit Griffey third and Dunn fourth or fifth. Dunn only had 123 at-bats in the two spot. Unbelievable.

Hmm.

WVRedsFan
10-10-2006, 02:17 AM
Give Jerry Narron the Big Red Machine and he'd be winning too... and probably be as loved as Sparky Anderson, though I'm not sure because RZ is a tough crowd to please.

I disagree, TB (that's an unusal thing, btw). The record speaks for itself on Spraky and Jerry.

Jerry's record is as follows:


Year League Team Age G W L WP Finish
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
2001 AL West Texas 45 134 62 72 .463 4
2002 AL West Texas 46 162 72 90 .444 4

2005 NL Cent Cincnnti 49 93 46 46 .500 5
2006 NL Cent Cincnnti 50 162 80 82 .494 3
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
Cincnnti 255 126 128 .496
Texas 296 134 162 .453
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
TOTAL 551 260 290 .473



While Sparky's record is:


Year League Team Age G W L WP Finish
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
1970 NL West Cincnnti 36 162 102 60 .630 NL 1
1971 NL West Cincnnti 37 162 79 83 .488 5
1972 NL West Cincnnti 38 154 95 59 .617 NL 1
1973 NL West Cincnnti 39 162 99 63 .611 1
1974 NL West Cincnnti 40 163 98 64 .605 2
1975 NL West Cincnnti 41 162 108 54 .667 WS 1
1976 NL West Cincnnti 42 162 102 60 .630 WS 1
1977 NL West Cincnnti 43 162 88 74 .543 2
1978 NL West Cincnnti 44 161 92 69 .571 2

1979 AL East Detroit 45 106 56 50 .528 5
1980 AL East Detroit 46 163 84 78 .519 5
1981 AL East Detroit 47 57 31 26 .544 4 First half of season
1981 AL East Detroit 47 52 29 23 .558 2 Second half of season
1982 AL East Detroit 48 162 83 79 .512 4
1983 AL East Detroit 49 162 92 70 .568 2
1984 AL East Detroit 50 162 104 58 .642 WS 1
1985 AL East Detroit 51 161 84 77 .522 3
1986 AL East Detroit 52 162 87 75 .537 3
1987 AL East Detroit 53 162 98 64 .605 1
1988 AL East Detroit 54 162 88 74 .543 2
1989 AL East Detroit 55 162 59 103 .364 7
1990 AL East Detroit 56 162 79 83 .488 3
1991 AL East Detroit 57 162 84 78 .519 2
1992 AL East Detroit 58 162 75 87 .463 6
1993 AL East Detroit 59 162 85 77 .525 4
1994 AL East Detroit 60 115 53 62 .461 5
1995 AL East Detroit 61 144 60 84 .417 4
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
Cincnnti 1450 863 586 .596
Detroit 2580 1331 1248 .516
+----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+
TOTAL 4030 2194 1834 .545



Two things jump out. Sparky had 4 losing seasons out of 27. Narron has had no winning seasons (even his best was a break even after he took over for Miley). Most (the last 3 or 4) were after Detroit was just so horrible from 92-95. Sparky was a winner. Eight of nine with the Reds and 9 of 14 with the Tigers. Narron can't come close to that with his 0-3-1 record. Given allo fthe talent Sparky came to Cincinnati with, he continued it as he went to Detroit, not a great franchise at all.

How can you develop a winning attitude when your manager still hasn't had a winning season? Elementary, i guess, but the attitude of Krivsky that he is "doing a wonderful job" smells of cheapness. Get a winner in here--someone who has proven he can win at the major league level--and I see good things happening. It goes far beyond the won-loss record and into the really intelligent things like talent appraisal. More than scrappy veterans and using your heart to decide when pitchers stay in the game or go.

Krivsky and BobbyC need to look at the big picture before we get a BRM team saddled with the lineups that Narron gave us this year. Of course, I may be wrong and YMMV.

BuckeyeRedleg
10-10-2006, 09:27 AM
Give Jerry Narron the Big Red Machine and he'd be winning too... and probably be as loved as Sparky Anderson, though I'm not sure because RZ is a tough crowd to please.

6 straight seasons of losing baseball and 3 playoff appearances in 30 years will do that to a fanbase, especially the type of non-casual fan that posts on the RZ.

westofyou
10-10-2006, 11:16 AM
How can you develop a winning attitude when your manager still hasn't had a winning season?

You actually typed this and used Sparky Anderson as an example?

The same Sparky Anderson that was a coach for the expansion San Diego Padres and had only managed in the ML prior to be hired by the Reds?

The same Reds who fired a manager who had a .529 winning percentage hired a guy with absolutley no track record at all and came out smelling like roses?

To get to your original question


How can you develop a winning attitude when your manager still hasn't had a winning season?

I'd say... get better players.

Chip R
10-10-2006, 11:26 AM
I'd say... get better players.


Brilliant!

TeamBoone
10-10-2006, 02:42 PM
I guess my post wasn't clear. I meant, ANYONE could have won with the players that comprised the The Big Red Machine and win... even Jerry Narron.

I wasn't referring to Sparky's entire career as a manager.

REDREAD
10-10-2006, 06:00 PM
There was a split camp within the front office about brining Bailey up; he made the decision to keep him in the minors. Said he pitched enough innings in the minors and had some shoulder tendentious during the year , wasn't worth risking injury at his age.

.


Oh man, I hope this doesn't end up being Maj, part II.
I just have no confidence in the Reds med staff. They have a horrible track record of preventing injuries from getting worse.
I know the Reds took it fairly easy with Homer, but IIRC, this year was still the most innings he's ever pitched.

REDREAD
10-10-2006, 06:04 PM
Joe Torre's career winning % before going to the Yankees?
Oh that's right, I'm sure he just got smart in the late 90's and has taken dum dum pills in the playoffs the last few years.


In Torre's defense, he got a lot out of those horrible Braves' teams in the 80's. His replacement did much worse (Haas).