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View Full Version : 2006 Mets: Do They Resemble the BRM?



Rex Argos
10-10-2006, 09:29 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15206222/

Interesting article that compares today's Mets with our beloved 75-76 Reds.

RedFanAlways1966
10-10-2006, 09:34 PM
Blasphemy! :eek:

TeamBoone
10-10-2006, 10:08 PM
Don't you mean the 2006 Mets? (see title)

And no, I don't think they do. The BRM was better.

RedsIn07
10-10-2006, 10:21 PM
Pitching, Pitching, Pitching.

Rex Argos
10-10-2006, 10:21 PM
Sorry, my crystal ball is foggy.

macro
10-10-2006, 10:25 PM
Many of you remember this, but following the 1976 World Series, Sparky Anderson was asked to compare Yankees catcher Thurman Munson to Johnny Bench. Sparky said "Don't ever embarrass anybody by comparing him to Johnny Bench".

I'm going to borrow Sparky's sentiment when I say, "Don't ever embarrass a baseball team by comparing them to the Big Red Machine."

:D

Rex Argos
10-10-2006, 10:32 PM
Many of you remember this, but following the 1976 World Series, Sparky Anderson was asked to compare Yankees catcher Thurman Munson to Johnny Bench. Sparky said "Don't ever embarrass anybody by comparing him to Johnny Bench".

I'm going to borrow Sparky's sentiment when I say, "Don't ever embarrass a baseball team by comparing them to the Big Red Machine."

:D

Excellent thought. If I could give "rep", you'd get it for that quote. I remember when Sparky said that, and the entire city of NY went nuts. But it was the absolute truth.

Degenerate39
10-10-2006, 11:16 PM
Magic 8 ball says "Hell No."

Matt700wlw
10-10-2006, 11:19 PM
They're blue

Wheelhouse
10-10-2006, 11:30 PM
Maybe if they can mix in ONE championship the conversation could begin.

cumberlandreds
10-11-2006, 06:47 AM
Many of you remember this, but following the 1976 World Series, Sparky Anderson was asked to compare Yankees catcher Thurman Munson to Johnny Bench. Sparky said "Don't ever embarrass anybody by comparing him to Johnny Bench".

I'm going to borrow Sparky's sentiment when I say, "Don't ever embarrass a baseball team by comparing them to the Big Red Machine."

:D


Good comeback on that comparison. I gave you rep for that! Pure blasphemy to compare the two teams. Like someone else said, when this Mets team wins a couple of championships we will talk about this.

RedsBaron
10-11-2006, 07:08 AM
The 2006 Mets had a record of 97-65. They scored 834 runs and allowed 731 runs, ranking third in the NL in each category.
The 1975 Reds had a record of 108-54. They scored 840 runs (1st in the NL) and allowed 586 runs (3rd in the NL).
The 1976 Reds had a record of 102-60. They scored 857 runs (1st in the NL) and allowed 633 runs (5th in the NL).
I can see nothing similar in the numbers of the 2006 Mets as compared to the 1975 and 1976 Reds.
An adjustment should be made for playing conditions. Although the 1975 and 1976 Reds gave up fewer runs than the 2006 Mets, since scoring levels were lower in the mid-1970s, I expect the 2006 Mets pitching staff actually is closer to the 1975-76 Reds than the runs allowed indicates. However, because scoring levels were lower thirty years ago, the Reds offense in 1975-76 was actually much more superior than the raw runs scored indicates. The 1976 Reds lead the NL in runs, hits, doubles, triples, home runs, runs batted in, stolen bases, on base percentage, slugging percentage, total bases, demoralized opposing pitchers, etc.
Finally, as several posters have already noted, the 1975-76 Reds won the World Series.

Ltlabner
10-11-2006, 07:26 AM
Shouldn't this Mets team at least win a world series once before being compared to any other world series team?

The premise of his article is that they are simular teams because they both had average starting pitching, great hitting and a solid bullpen. Using that "logic" doesn't that mean that any other team in baseball history with that team construction resembles the BRM.

Again, win some rings and then get back to me.

Johnny Footstool
10-11-2006, 12:18 PM
Dynasty. That was the BRM.

The Mets smell like a flash in the pan, especially considering how they performed last season with most of the same players they have now.

guttle11
10-11-2006, 12:34 PM
That Pat Lo Duca sure is a good catcher....:rolleyes:

Goodness. That might be the least thought out and worst written article I've seen in a long time. First the media want to compare a Yankee team that loses in the first round to the BRM, and now a Mets team that just won it's first division title in almost 2 decades?

Goodness I hate NY.

tsj017
10-11-2006, 01:07 PM
New York-centric media strikes again!

A few years back, the Mets had assembled a collection of high-priced infielders. They were on the cover of Sports Illustrated with the caption, "The Best Infield Ever?"

Do the Mets have 4-5 legitimate HOF candidates in their everyday lineup?

RedsBaron
10-11-2006, 06:23 PM
I re-read the article. Stupid, stupid, stupid.
The writer asserted that the Reds had no starting pitcher at the "level" of Tom Glavine. Over the course of a career, no. Glavine is a future Hall of Famer and the 1975 and 1976 Reds didn't feature any HOF pitchers. But Tom Glavine will go to the HOF primarily because of all of his 20+ win seasons as a Brave and his two Cy Young awards won as a Brave; what Glavine did in the 1990s is irrelevant to how good a pitcher that he was in 2006 for the New York Mets.
Don Gullett was a much better pitcher in 1975 than Glavine was in 2006, Gary Nolan was every bit as good in 1975 as Glavine was in 2006, and even Jack Billingham was nearly as effective in 1975 as Glavine was in 2006.
In 1976, Gullett was hurt part of the season, but he, Nolan and Zachary all pitched roughly at Glavine's 2006 level.
The writer further asserted that the Reds bullpen lacked the Mets depth. The 1975 Reds bullpen had Eastwick, McEnaney, Carroll and Borbon-it had plenty of depth.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Topcat
10-12-2006, 04:03 AM
Many of you remember this, but following the 1976 World Series, Sparky Anderson was asked to compare Yankees catcher Thurman Munson to Johnny Bench. Sparky said "Don't ever embarrass anybody by comparing him to Johnny Bench".

I'm going to borrow Sparky's sentiment when I say, "Don't ever embarrass a baseball team by comparing them to the Big Red Machine."

:D


Thurman was a awesome catcher I do not dispute that. But comparing him to Johnny Bench is like comparing any donut to a Krispy Kreme its not even in the realm of consideration.

Johnny Footstool
10-12-2006, 09:27 AM
Thurman was a awesome catcher I do not dispute that. But comparing him to Johnny Bench is like comparing any donut to a Krispy Kreme its not even in the realm of consideration.

More like comparing a bagel to a Krispy Kreme.

BTW - I like Dunkin Donuts better.

Jefferson24
10-12-2006, 11:06 AM
There is only one BRM and it upsets me to see comparisons like this. It shows that some people truely don't have the proper reverence for the BRM.

M2
10-12-2006, 01:14 PM
Seeing that I made this comparison last week, yes, the Mets are built along BRM lines.

Are they as good as the BRM? No, but that doesn't change the fact that they've got a deep and diverse lineup (3rd in scoring, 4th in HR, 3rd in doubles) that can run (1st in SBs and SB%, and I'll bet they lead the league in extra bases taken too) and field (3rd in MLB in DER). That's a five-tool team the Mets put out in the field.

Add to that the strength of their bullpen (Billy Wagner's more than a little bit better than any reliever who toed the mound for the BRM) and the middle of the pack starting and you end up with a club that resembles the BRM more than any I can recall in recent memory.

klw
10-12-2006, 01:38 PM
Here's the important part of the story:

"Mike Celizic is a contributor to MSNBC.com and a freelance writer based in New York."

I remeber watching a beautiful Reds Braves series in the summer of '94 when the Reds crushed the Braves. To fill the time the Braves announcers went position by position comparing the Braves to the BRM. I lost it when they got to third and declared that Pendleton was clearly superior to Rose.

BRM
10-12-2006, 02:54 PM
To fill the time the Braves announcers went position by position comparing the Braves to the BRM. I lost it when they got to third and declared that Pendleton was clearly superior to Rose.

:laugh: That's just funny.

Ltlabner
10-12-2006, 04:16 PM
More like comparing a bagel to a Krispy Kreme.

BTW - I like Dunkin Donuts better.

Commie...

Matt700wlw
10-12-2006, 04:18 PM
I'll give the Joe Morgan answer when he was asked about if the Yankees lineup is the best ever.

When they win something, we'll talk.

M2
10-12-2006, 04:28 PM
Commie...

Krispy and Kreme start with the same letter as Kremlin. Dunkin' and Donuts start with the same letter as democracy.

Ltlabner
10-12-2006, 04:34 PM
Krispy and Kreme start with the same letter as Kremlin. Dunkin' and Donuts start with the same letter as democracy.

But Dom starts with D.

Along with Duma

So does Dniper

So does Delta (Soviet Submarine Type)

As does Dofsyeski

Coincidence....I think not.

M2
10-13-2006, 01:11 AM
I see your bid and I raise you a Khrushchev, komrade, Kamchatka, Kiev, kommissar, Kalashnikov and KGB.

traderumor
10-13-2006, 07:55 AM
Seeing that I made this comparison last week, yes, the Mets are built along BRM lines.

Are they as good as the BRM? No, but that doesn't change the fact that they've got a deep and diverse lineup (3rd in scoring, 4th in HR, 3rd in doubles) that can run (1st in SBs and SB%, and I'll bet they lead the league in extra bases taken too) and field (3rd in MLB in DER). That's a five-tool team the Mets put out in the field.

Add to that the strength of their bullpen (Billy Wagner's more than a little bit better than any reliever who toed the mound for the BRM) and the middle of the pack starting and you end up with a club that resembles the BRM more than any I can recall in recent memory.The comparison was thrown around for the 2004 Cardinals. It comes up anytime a team hits, fields, pitches a little, and has a solid bullpen. I find teams who can only sustain that level of play for one season a poor basis of comparison to a team that dominated a decade.

M2
10-13-2006, 10:10 AM
The comparison was thrown around for the 2004 Cardinals. It comes up anytime a team hits, fields, pitches a little, and has a solid bullpen. I find teams who can only sustain that level of play for one season a poor basis of comparison to a team that dominated a decade.

That's a fair point. Obviously the Mets are only one year into this level of play. Though you've got to figure they stand to be on a decent run with Beltran, Wright and Reyes all having what should be many good years in front of them.

Anyway, even if they only play this way for one season, I'm not going to knock it. It's the kind of baseball I love and it's a relative rarity to see it. Plus, the Mets are a really good representation of the art form.

Ltlabner
10-13-2006, 01:07 PM
I see your bid and I raise you a Khrushchev, komrade, Kamchatka, Kiev, kommissar, Kalashnikov and KGB.

Ah yes, but you forgot such stalwarts of communisim as:
The Republic of Dagestan
the rivers Donets, Dubna, Dvina, Dep, Desna and Davganva
Felix Dzerzhinsky - famus commie revolutonary
Doku Zavgaev - Soviet Commie party offical
Dmitri Danilovich Lelyushenko - Soviet Military Comander

And lest we forget the commie inflicted defeat at Dien Bien Phou.

Soooo..I think it's pretty obvious that Dunkin Doughnuts is a front orginization for commies and the likes of Gus Hall.

That or the DD is appealing to something else sinister. Beats me

M2
10-13-2006, 01:46 PM
Ah yes, but you forgot such stalwarts of communisim as:
The Republic of Dagestan
the rivers Donets, Dubna, Dvina, Dep, Desna and Davganva
Felix Dzerzhinsky - famus commie revolutonary
Doku Zavgaev - Soviet Commie party offical
Dmitri Danilovich Lelyushenko - Soviet Military Comander

And lest we forget the commie inflicted defeat at Dien Bien Phou.

Soooo..I think it's pretty obvious that Dunkin Doughnuts is a front orginization for commies and the likes of Gus Hall.

That or the DD is appealing to something else sinister. Beats me

That's mostly mere geography. Kazakhstan, Kyrgyztan, Kaliningrad, the Kuril islands. Dien Bien Phooey, Commie history books would barely mention it. Kursk however, the largest tank battle ever fought, they'd devote some pages to that one.

Karl Kautsky was known as "The Pope of Marxism," as in Karl Marx
Lev Borisovish Kamenev was a founding member and one-time chairman of the Politburo
Sergey Kirov was one of Joe Stalin's earliest supporters
Kliment Voroshilov was the Marshall of the Soviet Union, instrumental in Stalin's Great Purge and had the KV series of tanks named after him
Mikhail Kalinin (for whom Kaliningrad was named) was the titular head of state for the Soviet Union from 1918-1946 and signed the papers for the Katyn Massacre.

Then you've got the Komsomol, the Soviet version of the Hitler Youth. I already mentioned the Kremlin and the KGB. Guess what letter the Comintern starts with in Russian? That's right, K.

Yet, and this is the clincher, here's the Russian spelling for the word Communist: Kommunisticheskiy. That's right, over there they considered themselves Kommies and every Kommie thing they did began with a K. They'd have made Krispy Kremes the state doughnut for sure.

Ltlabner
10-13-2006, 02:09 PM
Yet, and this is the clincher, here's the Russian spelling for the word Communist: Kommunisticheskiy. That's right, over there they considered themselves Kommies and every Kommie thing they did began with a K. They'd have made Krispy Kremes the state doughnut for sure.


You seem to know a lot about the commies....

Maybe a little TOO much.

Don't mind the non-descript sedan with two gentlemen in dark suits and buzz cuts that will be parked out front and "keeping an eye" on you.

traderumor
10-13-2006, 02:19 PM
That's a fair point. Obviously the Mets are only one year into this level of play. Though you've got to figure they stand to be on a decent run with Beltran, Wright and Reyes all having what should be many good years in front of them.

Anyway, even if they only play this way for one season, I'm not going to knock it. It's the kind of baseball I love and it's a relative rarity to see it. Plus, the Mets are a really good representation of the art form.I can agree at that level, and concur with it defining good baseball. I noticed this in another thread, but I don't think the late 60s-early 70s Orioles necessarily get their due in this regard. Paul Blair in center, speed on one corner of the outfield (Don Buford), power on the other corner (Robby). Brooks and Belanger picking it, with Boog Powell going deep and driving in runs at first. The pitching rotation was superior (McNally, Cuellar, Palmer) and the bullpen was solid. I'd say the only incomparable position was Elrod and Etchebarren behind the plate. But those teams were very, very talented and should be mentioned in the same breath as the BRM, even down to an innovative manager.

M2
10-13-2006, 02:19 PM
You seem to know a lot about the commies....

Maybe a little TOO much.

Don't mind the non-descript sedan with two gentlemen in dark suits and buzz cuts that will be parked out front and "keeping an eye" on you.

I know enough not to eat Kommie Kreme doughnuts.

Ltlabner
10-13-2006, 02:26 PM
I know enough not to eat Kommie Kreme doughnuts.

So you prefer "Dzerzhinsky Dacha" doughnuts instead?

I wonder about you.

Hahahahaha

BRM
10-13-2006, 02:28 PM
You guys are making me hungry...

M2
10-13-2006, 02:42 PM
So you prefer "Dzerzhinsky Dacha" doughnuts instead?

I wonder about you.

Hahahahaha

And note how Krispy Kreme and it's exapnsionist aims have struggled in our capitalist society. Meanwhile, Dunkin' Donuts with its true-blue Yankee heritage continues to thrive.

Oh, and I forgot to mention a little book called Das Kapital.

BRM
10-13-2006, 02:44 PM
And note how Krispy Kreme and it's exapnsionist aims have struggled in our capitalist society. Meanwhile, Dunkin' Donuts with its true-blue Yankee heritage continues to thrive.

Oh, and I forgot to mention a little book called Das Kapital.

Krispy Kreme closed down in Colorado Springs this past year.

Ltlabner
10-13-2006, 02:52 PM
And note how Krispy Kreme and it's exapnsionist aims have struggled in our capitalist society. Meanwhile, Dunkin' Donuts with its true-blue Yankee heritage continues to thrive.

Oh, and I forgot to mention a little book called Das Kapital.

Really? Because I always thought the expansive network of Duma Doughnut stores allowed them to redistribute the earnings of the stores that are doing well to the stores that are floundering. You know, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. "

:p:

So is this what the off season threads are like? hahahaha

M2
10-13-2006, 03:03 PM
So is this what the off season threads are like? hahahaha

Mostly. Lots of stuff about Jim Coombs, how to identify Redszoners in public and SERP.