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NJReds
10-11-2006, 09:26 AM
From the Providence Journal...link (http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/projo_20061011_11rsoxjo.31c8562.html)



Red Sox Notebook: Arroyo's strategizing his return to the Red Sox

01:00 AM EDT on Wednesday, October 11, 2006

Bronson Arroyo may be in Cincinnati, but his heart is still in Boston.

In fact, he may already be planning his return.

"I still miss playing in that uniform, especially when I turn on the TV and they are 10 games out of first place and there is still a crowd that is maybe more enthusiastic than any crowd in the game," Arroyo told the Lawrence (Mass.) Eagle-Tribune in a story published yesterday.

"You never know what's going to happen in the next couple years."

One thing that will happen is Arroyo hitting the free-agent market after 2008, when the three-year contract he signed with the Red Sox last winter expires. He has yet to sell his home in Boston, and he told the newspaper he'll hold onto it for at least two more years . . . or until he sees what happens in free agency.

Arroyo, 29, went 14-11 with a 3.29 E.R.A. for the Reds and made the National League All-Star team. He said Sox general manager Theo Epstein, who traded him to Cincinnati for outfielder Wily Mo Pena in spring training, called to congratulate him on his All-Star selection.

"He was joking around about how he couldn't go anywhere in the city without somebody yelling at him about trading me," Arroyo said.

Like many Sox fans, Arroyo didn't understand why Boston would pitching for outfield help.

"[Why] would you trade away a young, 200-inning arm?" he said. "Even if Wily Mo hits 40 home runs, I think with what's going on in baseball as far as getting rid of steroids and stuff, it's becoming harder for people to pitch 200 innings and stay healthy year after year. I can see pitchers becoming more of a commodity than they were five or six years ago."

And Arroyo thinks he became more of a commodity after the season he had.

"I was disappointed with the move, but it is probably going to help me out in the long run, because I'm coming over to [Cincinnati] with a little more responsibility, showing I didn't need the Boston Red Sox lineup to stay out there and win ballgames." he said. "In the end, as a free agent, I have become worth more than if I stayed in Boston and pitched out of the pen . . .

"Over time, you earn your respect. I've always been a guy who has been borderline, 'Is he a starter or a bullpen guy?' But now I think I've shown I can be a No. 3 on any team in baseball.

"So now I've gotten over that hump. Now I have to prove that I can be a guy who can do it 2, 3, 5 or 10 years in a row."

Reds4Life
10-11-2006, 10:16 AM
Anyone else getting really tired of hearing about Boston and Arroyo?

Memo to Bronson: You were traded, get over it. If you don't want to be here, ask for a trade and leave.

registerthis
10-11-2006, 10:17 AM
Anyone else getting really tired of hearing about Boston and Arroyo?

Memo to Bronson: You were traded, get over it. If you don't want to be here, ask for a trade and leave.

My sentiments exactly.

NJReds
10-11-2006, 10:19 AM
Maybe WK should trade him back to Boston while his value is high. They have a lot of young pitching prospects, and I don't think they're enamored with Coco Crisp, either.

vaticanplum
10-11-2006, 10:23 AM
Anyone else getting really tired of hearing about Boston and Arroyo?

Memo to Bronson: You were traded, get over it. If you don't want to be here, ask for a trade and leave.

Agreed 100%.

Normally I support the rights of public figures to say whatever they want, and I'm not likely to let stuff like this get to me as a fan as long as he's pitching well. But it's getting inappropriate at this point. He's a member of this team and has been for almost a year. His new team doesn't appear to be doing anything to make him unhappy, so I think he has something of a responsibility to them, at least in the press.

And as you say, this is moot whining. If he is unhappy he needs to deal with it on a proactive level with the organization, not vent about it to unrelated parties. I hope the media isn't spinning this.

Always Red
10-11-2006, 10:30 AM
Anyone else getting really tired of hearing about Boston and Arroyo?



yes, I am too. Tired of hearing Arroyo pining for the Red Sox. I admire what Bronson has done on the field, and his tenacity on the mound, especially with wanting to pitch on short rest.

It's not a prerequisite for these guys to love the Reds as much as we do, but I get sick of hearing them actively plotting and wishing to get away.

I know we need pitching, and at his salary, Arroyo's a steal, but another way to look at it is that he's never going to be worth as much as he is right now. If he really doesn't want to be here, or would rather be elsewhere, the Reds can get some good young arms back in return.

RedsManRick
10-11-2006, 10:32 AM
And this is why it's time for the Reds to decide what's more valuable; the next 2 years of Arroyo, at whatever level of performance you get, or what somebody is willing to trade you for those 2 years? Personally, I think you at least talk about trading Arroyo. I don't think he's going to improve any, and if somebody is willing to give you a Liriano/Nathan/Bonser type package of multiple high ceiling prospect close to the majors, you make the move.

We simply need more talent, plain and simple. If you don't get a good enough offer, it's not like Arroyo is suddenly going to decide he wants out... he already does! I would not at all be surprised by a regression somewhat to the 4.00 ERA level as more players get acclimated to his style. Everything went his way this year. I'm thrilled by what he gave us, but would be even more thrilled if we could turn around and flip him for the kind of return we should've gotten from Loepz & Kearns & Wagner.

registerthis
10-11-2006, 10:37 AM
And this is why it's time for the Reds to decide what's more valuable; the next 2 years of Arroyo, at whatever level of performance you get, or what somebody is willing to trade you for those 2 years? Personally, I think you at least talk about trading Arroyo. I don't think he's going to improve any, and if somebody is willing to give you a Liriano/Nathan/Bonser type package of multiple high ceiling prospect close to the majors, you make the move.

We simply need more talent, plain and simple. If you don't get a good enough offer, it's not like Arroyo is suddenly going to decide he wants out... he already does! I would not at all be surprised by a regression somewhat to the 4.00 ERA level as more players get acclimated to his style. Everything went his way this year. I'm thrilled by what he gave us, but would be even more thrilled if we could turn around and flip him for the kind of return we should've gotten from Loepz & Kearns & Wagner.

I agree that no one should be off the trading table, but Arroyo would be one of the last people I would be looking to trade. 240 innings of 3.29 ERA, 1.19 WHIP ball and 184 K's doesn't grow on trees, particularly at what Arroyo will be making the next two years. The offer would have to be can't-pass-this-up good in order for it to make sense for the club to trade him, and I don't know that any teams would offer that type of package for Arroyo.

RFS62
10-11-2006, 10:41 AM
I guess I'm different, because it doesn't bother me at all. I think it's refreshing when a guy tells the truth and doesn't worry about the politics involved.

It's not like he says he's gonna pull a Sheffield and tank his way out of town. He knows that putting up a stellar performance is the ONLY way he'll get back to Beantown, and that means the Reds benefit.

Isn't everything he's said about his Boston experience true? How can you blame him?

It's a lot better than the empty platitudes and LaLooshian cliche-speak we're used to in ballplayers today.

Reds4Life
10-11-2006, 10:50 AM
I guess I'm different, because it doesn't bother me at all. I think it's refreshing when a guy tells the truth and doesn't worry about the politics involved.

It's not like he says he's gonna pull a Sheffield and tank his way out of town. He knows that putting up a stellar performance is the ONLY way he'll get back to Beantown, and that means the Reds benefit.

Isn't everything he's said about his Boston experience true? How can you blame him?

It's a lot better than the empty platitudes and LaLooshian cliche-speak we're used to in ballplayers today.

Would you go into work and tell your boss how much better it was working at your last place of employment? How long do you think they'd put up with that?

Bronson must have missed the fact that Boston loved him so much they decided to trade him, even after he agreed to a less than market value contract to stay there. It's like still calling someone your girlfriend 2 years after she broke up with you.

GAC
10-11-2006, 10:52 AM
Why would you pine for a team that basically lied to you and screwed you over?

Heath
10-11-2006, 10:52 AM
Dear Bronson.

Quit whining. Or, get used to seeing the sights of Kansas City.

Love,

The RedsZone.

RFS62
10-11-2006, 10:54 AM
Would you go into work and tell your boss how much better it was working at your last place of employment? How long do you think they'd put up with that?




That's not what he did. He was being interviewed by the Providence Journal, a decidedly Red Sox newspaper.

He answered questions honestly. He didn't walk into his place of employment and make these statements.

Ltlabner
10-11-2006, 10:57 AM
" In fact, he may already be planning his return."

That's the line the author of the story wrote, not BA. And BA didn't pen the title either. I don't really see anything in his comments where he says the Reds suck and he wants to go back to Beantown.

In fact he says, " I was disappointed with the move, but it is probably going to help me out in the long run, because I'm coming over to [Cincinnati] with a little more responsibility, showing I didn't need the Boston Red Sox lineup to stay out there and win ballgames."

Also, "In the end, as a free agent, I have become worth more than if I stayed in Boston and pitched out of the pen . . .

And, "Over time, you earn your respect. I've always been a guy who has been borderline, 'Is he a starter or a bullpen guy?' But now I think I've shown I can be a No. 3 on any team in baseball.

Finally, "So now I've gotten over that hump. Now I have to prove that I can be a guy who can do it 2, 3, 5 or 10 years in a row."

I don't know, but it sounds to me that he made a passing comment about being dissapointed with the trade but the majority of his comments are focused on either how the move helped him, or looking towards the future.

redsmetz
10-11-2006, 10:59 AM
" In fact, he may already be planning his return."

That's the line the author of the story wrote, not BA. And BA didn't pen the title either. I don't really see anything in his comments where he says the Reds suck and he wants to go back to Beantown.

In fact he says, " I was disappointed with the move, but it is probably going to help me out in the long run, because I'm coming over to [Cincinnati] with a little more responsibility, showing I didn't need the Boston Red Sox lineup to stay out there and win ballgames."

Also, "In the end, as a free agent, I have become worth more than if I stayed in Boston and pitched out of the pen . . .

And, "Over time, you earn your respect. I've always been a guy who has been borderline, 'Is he a starter or a bullpen guy?' But now I think I've shown I can be a No. 3 on any team in baseball.

Finally, "So now I've gotten over that hump. Now I have to prove that I can be a guy who can do it 2, 3, 5 or 10 years in a row."

I don't know, but it sounds to me that he made a passing comment about being dissapointed with the trade but the majority of his comments are focused on either how the move helped him, or looking towards the future.

I think you're exactly right. And even the quotes attributed to him are true statements. The Reds will have their hands full keeping him longer, but I like his future.

Reds4Life
10-11-2006, 10:59 AM
That's not what he did. He was being interviewed by the Providence Journal, a decidedly Red Sox newspaper.

He answered questions honestly. He didn't walk into his place of employment and make these statements.

You don't think people in the Reds front office aren't going to see that article? They read you know.

Joseph
10-11-2006, 10:59 AM
That's not what he did. He was being interviewed by the Providence Journal, a decidedly Red Sox newspaper.

He answered questions honestly. He didn't walk into his place of employment and make these statements.

But lets be realistic still, he didn't say these things in a vacuum where no one will ever hear them aside from his intended audience. We heard them, chances are someone in the FO here will hear or has heard them.

That can't sit well with what Cast is trying to do. If the players don't buy into the team and whats going on here, how can management expect the fans to buy into it?

RedsManRick
10-11-2006, 11:03 AM
I agree that no one should be off the trading table, but Arroyo would be one of the last people I would be looking to trade. 240 innings of 3.29 ERA, 1.19 WHIP ball and 184 K's doesn't grow on trees, particularly at what Arroyo will be making the next two years. The offer would have to be can't-pass-this-up good in order for it to make sense for the club to trade him, and I don't know that any teams would offer that type of package for Arroyo.

I agree 100% -- which is why I mentioned the package the Twins got for Pierzynski. While I wouldn't, as a GM, give that much talent for Arroyo, pitchers of his quality, for his price, simply are not available. As such, if he's out there, he's probably the most highly sought after pitcher not from Japan. Again, it's not a "trade him now" demand in the least. Rather, it's a "make it known he's not untouchable" request. You'll never know what return you can get if you don't put it out there.

RFS62
10-11-2006, 11:03 AM
You don't think people in the Reds front office aren't going to see that article? They read you know.


Sure. I understand what you're saying.

I just think it's refreshing that he tells the truth.

If his effort level was suspect it would be different. But he hasn't done a single thing disruptive since coming to the Reds, at least not to my knowledge.

Again, remember the context of the interview. It was done by Red Sox fans for Red Sox fans. They were talking about the good things from his Red Sox experience.

Much ado about nothing, IMO.

GAC
10-11-2006, 11:04 AM
So players shouldn't grant interviews. And when they do, they should lie because you don't know who may be listening. ;)

Redsland
10-11-2006, 11:04 AM
You don't think people in the Reds front office aren't going to see that article? They read you know.
Maybe he thought it was going to be printed in Baseball Prospectus.

;)

blumj
10-11-2006, 11:04 AM
I hope the media isn't spinning this.
But of course they are, or at least, they have an agenda that has absolutely nothing to do with the Reds or their fans. You know that filter in your head that tells you that maybe you shouldn't say every single thing you're thinking all the time? Bronson doesn't have one. And every single Boston area writer who covers the Red Sox knows it. He actually doesn't sound unhappy at all, but if he thinks of Boston as home, is there really anything so wrong with him wanting to go back there in the future? He wouldn't keep saying it if they didn't keep asking him, and the reason they keep asking him is all their agenda, not his.

guttle11
10-11-2006, 11:11 AM
Who cares where he wants to be if he pitches like that?

I hope he pitches great next year and the first half of 08 so they can get a ton for him at the '08 deadline.

redsfan30
10-11-2006, 11:12 AM
I still say trade him this offseason when his value is at it's highest. I'd be shocked if he resigned here after the 2008 season, and you probably aren't going to get more for him than you are right now.

Trade him, and get a king's ransom in return.

westofyou
10-11-2006, 11:15 AM
So players shouldn't grant interviews. And when they do, they should lie because you don't know who may be listening. ;)

Be careful if you "lie" the otherside is that 100,000 words of debate will generated by those trying to decide how important said lie is in the great big scheme of things.

919191
10-11-2006, 11:21 AM
Why would you pine for a team that basically lied to you and screwed you over?

I don't think it is the employer he is pining over as much as the city, the fans, and the general environmrent.

His love of Boston doesn't bother me in the least. Heck, the only time I ever really hear about it is on Redszone.:)

Unassisted
10-11-2006, 11:22 AM
I still say trade him this offseason when his value is at it's highest. I'd be shocked if he resigned here after the 2008 season, and you probably aren't going to get more for him than you are right now.

Trade him, and get a king's ransom in return.

Funny how this revelation and his second-half performance make this notion more palatable to me than it would have been at the ASB. It would be sweet poetic justice if Bronson could be sent off to the baseball equivalents of Siberia in Seattle or Tampa Bay in return for a boatload of talented young players. :D

Ltlabner
10-11-2006, 11:26 AM
Be careful if you "lie" the otherside is that 100,000 words of debate will generated by those trying to decide how important said lie is in the great big scheme of things.

What did Marty B know about Bronson's interview, and when did he know it? :evil:

Always Red
10-11-2006, 11:38 AM
Arroyo had a great year, and he did prove his worth as a SP to the rest of baseball this year. I just wish that he liked it here enough, and had more respect for Reds fans than to verbalize this. I mean, really, he could have said what he did about the Red Sox and Boston, and then thrown in something about being happy where he is now, but you never know what the future brings. I guess it just hurts my feelings more than anything else, that he won't even throw us a bone. I'll get over it; I did when Rose left the first time.

Fact is, most ambitious players want to play on the biggest stage. Which is, sadly not here in Cincinnati anymore.

None of this matters at all if he continues to pitch as he did this past year. It's what you do on the field that counts, and Arroyo has never been in trouble once off the field.

M2
10-11-2006, 11:44 AM
I guess I'm different, because it doesn't bother me at all. I think it's refreshing when a guy tells the truth and doesn't worry about the politics involved.

It's not like he says he's gonna pull a Sheffield and tank his way out of town. He knows that putting up a stellar performance is the ONLY way he'll get back to Beantown, and that means the Reds benefit.

Isn't everything he's said about his Boston experience true? How can you blame him?

It's a lot better than the empty platitudes and LaLooshian cliche-speak we're used to in ballplayers today.

What RFS said. Plus, it always seemed to me that one of the perks of reaching free agency is having the ability to play where you want to play. The guy likes Boston. We all knew that when the Reds traded for him.

pedro
10-11-2006, 11:45 AM
It seems to me that fans in Cincinnati just can't accept that some guys have other cities that they like better. Why is is? He didn't say anything bad about Cincinnati, just that he would like to return to Boston if he had the chance.

westofyou
10-11-2006, 11:48 AM
It seems to me that fans in Cincinnati just can't accept that some guys have other cities that they like better. Why is is? He didn't say anything bad about Cincinnati, just that he would like to return to Boston if he had the chance.
Perghaps it's the same thing that makes them think that because Torres wife is from Cincinnati that he'd like to work there?

blumj
10-11-2006, 11:50 AM
I mean, really, he could have said what he did about the Red Sox and Boston, and then thrown in something about being happy where he is now, but you never know what the future brings. I guess it just hurts my feelings more than anything else, that he won't even throw us a bone.
He's never once said anything like that to a Cincinnati based writer? Why would he be throwing you a bone in an interview he has zero expectation that Reds fans will be reading? And, frankly, you can't assume he didn't, he very well may have, but the Providence Journal isn't going to waste space on it because you're not their intended audience.

dabvu2498
10-11-2006, 11:50 AM
He didn't say anything bad about Cincinnati,

He did get in a bit of a shot at the Cincy fans:


I turn on the TV and they are 10 games out of first place and there is still a crowd that is maybe more enthusiastic than any crowd in the game

I really don't care if he wants to go back to Boston, or even that he just wants out of Cincy. I do care that I've heard it so much.

pedro
10-11-2006, 11:58 AM
He did get in a bit of a shot at the Cincy fans:



I really don't care if he wants to go back to Boston, or even that he just wants out of Cincy. I do care that I've heard it so much.

is it not true?

Anyway, the media is going to keep on asking these questions, there really isn't anything we can do about it. It really isn't his fault.

RFS62
10-11-2006, 12:00 PM
Let's see now.....

... a 20 something millionaire, afforded Rock Star status in Boston, part of one of the most exciting pennant chases ever and a legendary playoff and World Series....

.... Women throwing themselves at him all over New England, a local music scene that embraces you..... the world is yours and all that's in it.

Pretty heady stuff for even the most well adjusted, I would think.

Do we want him to act like none of that stuff ever happened when asked by a New England reporter? Should he lie to make sure he doesn't offend our delicate sensibilities?

Bullcrap. He's human. He told the truth. And I've not heard a single thing negative about his effort level since he came here.

membengal
10-11-2006, 12:00 PM
Anyone with a smidgen of talent want to come to Cincy to play with the Reds? Anyone? Hello? Is this thing on?

Always Red
10-11-2006, 12:02 PM
He's never once said anything like that to a Cincinnati based writer? Why would he be throwing you a bone in an interview he has zero expectation that Reds fans will be reading? And, frankly, you can't assume he didn't, he very well may have, but the Providence Journal isn't going to waste space on it because you're not their intended audience.

True enough. But it's not just me, it's Reds fans too. Like I said, just below what you quoted, it's my problem as a Reds fan, getting my feelings hurt over a player preferring to be elsewhere. Sadly, the Reds are not a desireable team to play for anymore, unless you are A) from here B) on your way up from the farm system and looking to prove yourself or C) hanging on at the end of your career.

KittyDuran
10-11-2006, 12:02 PM
Perghaps it's the same thing that makes them think that because Torres wife is from Cincinnati that he'd like to work there?Or that Junior wanted to come to the Reds to go back home?

pedro
10-11-2006, 12:02 PM
Anyone with a smidgen of talent want to come to Cincy to play with the Reds? Anyone? Hello? Is this thing on?


It's up to the management and the fans to create an environment that attracts marquee players. It'll take time but it's not impossible.

Always Red
10-11-2006, 12:05 PM
It's up to the management and the fans to create an environment that attracts marquee players. It'll take time but it's not impossible.

It worked for the Bengals, who were in more dire straights than the Reds, and it only took them three years to turn the whole ship around. They were able to do it even with Mikey still owning the team. The Reds at least have the advantage of new ownership.

It remains to be seen if the Reds have anyone with the will of Marvin Lewis, which is what you need to rurn this around.

KittyDuran
10-11-2006, 12:09 PM
So is this like what Dunn was quoted as saying earlier this year? ;)

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42653

westofyou
10-11-2006, 12:10 PM
Or that Junior wanted to come to the Reds to go back home?

True, it can go both ways... but it's not always a sure thing. I remember how Lance Johnson was alwasy on many Reds fans lists back in the 90's, simply because he was from Cincinnati.

Being from somewhere doesn't mean you want to stay there or return there, my wife is living proof of that... born and raised in Cincinnati with her whole family there now.

M2
10-11-2006, 12:14 PM
We should also remember that pro sports is a mercenary field. A player gets roughly a decade to make his money. So, regardless of what the atmosphere created by the front office or the city in general, it's going to be hard to keep a guy past his free agent date if you don't have the cash to pay him.

It doesn't really matter Bronson Arroyo goes afte 2008, I've always worked from the assumption that, if he's successful with the Reds, he'll be heading somewhere else. That may not be a bad thing either. The Reds stand to get his prime seasons and then some draft pick compensation and payroll to spend when he leaves.

RedLegSuperStar
10-11-2006, 12:41 PM
Give him back to Boston and we'll take Jon Lester, David Pauley and we'll even take Wily Mo back.

But seriously memo to Bronson.. get over it. Prove yourself with the team you're on and stop whinning about getting traded. Because to be honest if you hadn't of pitched the way you did the Reds would of been in contention for as long as they were. You need to relize you are helping the team you are on and once your contract is up then make your rants.. till then give the fans and the city something to build on and look foward too. If not have fun having a pitty party with Aurilia and Cormier..

RedLegSuperStar
10-11-2006, 12:42 PM
So is this like what Dunn was quoted as saying earlier this year? ;)

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42653

Kitty Kitty Kitty.. LoL :D

TeamBoone
10-11-2006, 12:44 PM
I often wonder how it sits with the rest of the Reds players. Do they get sick of hearing it? Or don't they hear it?

It always seems Bronson is on the bench with David Ross... I never see him talking with anyone else during a game. Has he made friends with others on the team?

I'm just throwing stuff out there... and I have no idea what kind of effect these hypothetical things could have on a clubhouse. Maybe none, but maybe they can?

Something he always seems to bring up is how much better fan support there is in Boston. This makes me feel bad because the fans here are just as good, there just aren't as many coming out and there probably won't be until the team gets better (like this year; it's a step in the right direction). Does anybody remember how many turned out for the RSox before they began their winning ways?

Chip R
10-11-2006, 12:51 PM
I often wonder how it sits with the rest of the Reds players. Do they get sick of hearing it? Or don't they hear it?

It always seems Bronson is on the bench with David Ross... I never see him talking with anyone else during a game. Has he made friends with others on the team?

I'm just throwing stuff out there... and I have no idea what kind of effect these hypothetical things could have on a clubhouse. Maybe none, but maybe they can?

Something he always seems to bring up is how much better fan support there is in Boston. This makes me feel bad because the fans here are just as good, there just aren't as many coming out and there probably won't be until the team gets better (like this year; it's a step in the right direction). Does anybody remember how many turned out for the RSox before they began their winning ways?


http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061002/SPT05/610020337/1027/SPT05

pedro
10-11-2006, 01:05 PM
I guess he's just not as nice as Jim Bowden.

KittyDuran
10-11-2006, 01:26 PM
It always seems Bronson is on the bench with David Ross... I never see him talking with anyone else during a game. Has he made friends with others on the team?The only game in which I was really looking into the dugout (and BA wasn't pitching) he was talking to Ross and Deno - he was standing in-between them. Personally, I could care less where he sits, who he talks to or if he's made any friends on the team - just pitch well. :pray:

deltachi8
10-11-2006, 01:27 PM
As long as he pitches well for this team, I really don't care what he says or doesn't say about Boston, Cincinnati or Boise. He can wear his boston uni under his reds one for all I care, just pitch.

vaticanplum
10-11-2006, 01:40 PM
It seems to me that fans in Cincinnati just can't accept that some guys have other cities that they like better. Why is is? He didn't say anything bad about Cincinnati, just that he would like to return to Boston if he had the chance.

For me, that's not the point. Personal tastes vary, and it's ridiculous to expect that every player will be fond of the city in which he plays baseball. The point is that if he is constantly wishing himself away publicly, stating that he's out of here the first chance he gets, then that has a strong possibility of creating resentment among his teammates. This isn't about cities; this is about teams. Arroyo happened to get traded to the Red Sox early in his career, and he was extremely lucky to land on a good team at the right time, beyond even how he may have fit into the city. But not every player is so lucky, and you know going into the profession that a) you'll be lucky if you make it to the majors, and b) if you do, you will be very lucky if you have any say in where you end up playing, even if you hit free agency. Blind relocation comes with the profession. 99% of the time, you never hear a word from players about their feelings on where they play (unless it's positive stuff for the media). So that 1% really sticks out.

Again, in the greater scheme of things, this is not a big deal to me, and I hope it's not too blown out of proportion. If he's unhappy it doesn't seem to have affected his pitching, which is the job he is paid to do. And I've defended Arroyo on this point in the past; I understand where he's coming from. But he's spoken about it one too many times for my tastes. At first, it was a matter of being straightforward, and he's a straigtforward guy. Now, at a point when he's made it clear how he feels and nothing he says will make much of a positive difference for him, it's stupid. And he is not a stupid guy, I don't think.

REDREAD
10-11-2006, 01:54 PM
That's the line the author of the story wrote, not BA. And BA didn't pen the title either. I don't really see anything in his comments where he says the Reds suck and he wants to go back to Beantown. .


I agree that he didn't say he was miserable or the Reds sucked, but he did say:


"I still miss playing in that uniform, especially when I turn on the TV and they are 10 games out of first place and there is still a crowd that is maybe more enthusiastic than any crowd in the game," Arroyo told the Lawrence (Mass.) Eagle-Tribune in a story published yesterday.

"You never know what's going to happen in the next couple years."

He also mentions Theo's complement/regret of trading him and hasn't sold his house in Boston.

He sounds like a teenage pining for the girl that dumped him.

However, I don't mind that at all, he did a lot for his team. I'd rather him be honest
about wanting to go back to Boston than falsely saying that he loves it here and wants to
spend the rest of his career here. We've heard that line from a lot of guys as they
approach FA, even when it's not true at all. Sometimes they'll even throw in "I'll even
stay here for less money" before they leave :lol:

I think the Reds should consider shopping Arroyo. Don't give him away, but this team isn't likely
to be contending before Bronson bolts. If the Reds could get a king's ransom of young players for him
this winter (in a pitching starved market), you have to consider pulling the trigger.

In a way, Bronson reminds me a bit of Elmer Dessens. Elmer had that great year, and I remember being
mad Elmer was traded for Lopez, because the Reds desparately needed good starting pitching then too.
Turns out that Elmer crashed back down to earth and it was a good
deal for the Reds. I don't think Bronson will collapse next year, but he's likely to regress.

pedro
10-11-2006, 01:57 PM
For me, that's not the point. Personal tastes vary, and it's ridiculous to expect that every player will be fond of the city in which he plays baseball. The point is that if he is constantly wishing himself away publicly, stating that he's out of here the first chance he gets, then that has a strong possibility of creating resentment among his teammates. This isn't about cities; this is about teams. Arroyo happened to get traded to the Red Sox early in his career, and he was extremely lucky to land on a good team at the right time, beyond even how he may have fit into the city. But not every player is so lucky, and you know going into the profession that a) you'll be lucky if you make it to the majors, and b) if you do, you will be very lucky if you have any say in where you end up playing, even if you hit free agency. Blind relocation comes with the profession. 99% of the time, you never hear a word from players about their feelings on where they play (unless it's positive stuff for the media). So that 1% really sticks out.

Again, in the greater scheme of things, this is not a big deal to me, and I hope it's not too blown out of proportion. If he's unhappy it doesn't seem to have affected his pitching, which is the job he is paid to do. And I've defended Arroyo on this point in the past; I understand where he's coming from. But he's spoken about it one too many times for my tastes. At first, it was a matter of being straightforward, and he's a straigtforward guy. Now, at a point when he's made it clear how he feels and nothing he says will make much of a positive difference for him, it's stupid. And he is not a stupid guy, I don't think.

I understand, but he's not the one writing the articles. If Dunn was from Boston, they'd be doing the same thing to him IMO.

I have a hard time believing that his comments would stoke resentment from his teammates, unless, of course, they are from Cincinnati.

REDREAD
10-11-2006, 01:58 PM
Be careful if you "lie" the otherside is that 100,000 words of debate will generated by those trying to decide how important said lie is in the great big scheme of things.

:laugh: Yet you read through it.. Must of been of some interest to you.
Or maybe you were just looking for ammo to make lame cheap shots in other threads.

Sorry that my content isn't up to your "Standards" :laugh:

KittyDuran
10-11-2006, 01:59 PM
Well if it means anything - Arroyo was one of the first signups for RedsFest this year - of course, he's probably going to be a part of the concert being held Friday night. BTW - the website has added a few more stuff about RedsFest that's kind of interesting (check out the different spellings of the show in question-the last addition, the abbrevation vs the actual title in the item) . ;)

http://reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/cin/fan_forum/redsfest.jsp

westofyou
10-11-2006, 02:01 PM
Or maybe you were just looking for ammo to make lame cheap shots in other threads.


Like the above?

pedro
10-11-2006, 02:03 PM
Like the above?


Face it, you're not as nice as Jim Bowden either.

vaticanplum
10-11-2006, 02:03 PM
Well if it means anything - Arroyo was one of the first signups for RedsFest this year.

Petty as I may be, it does. Actions do speak louder than words.

Ltlabner
10-11-2006, 02:05 PM
till then give the fans and the city something to build on and look foward too...

Sounds like that is already his plan..."So now I've gotten over that hump. Now I have to prove that I can be a guy who can do it 2, 3, 5 or 10 years in a row."


I often wonder how it sits with the rest of the Reds players. Do they get sick of hearing it? Or don't they hear it?

It always seems Bronson is on the bench with David Ross... I never see him talking with anyone else during a game. Has he made friends with others on the team?

Question 1: My guess is they could care less as most of them aren't from Cincy, and played in other cities besides the Reds. The nature of baseball is that you move around and you are natually going to like one place over another.

Question 2: I think the real question is has Jason LaRue ever made a grumpy face at BA or refused to high five him?



The point is that if he is constantly wishing himself away publicly, stating that he's out of here the first chance he gets, then that has a strong possibility of creating resentment among his teammates.

But VP, I don't think that we can draw that conclusion from this article. The author added the title and the comment about BA scheming to move back. The author added the line about BA not selling his home (as if that had any revelvance). And BA said, "You never know what's going to happen in the next couple years" , which IMO is a vague throw away line that means little. You can draw many conclusions from something that vague anywhere from "I'm outa here at first chance" to "I love it in Cincy and I might just decide to stay".

As for mentioning the lack of enthusasim in the crowds....I think he was dead on and applaud him for having the guts to "call out" the fans. While attendence was up this year it was still miserable, especially when the Reds were legitamatley in the race. Players have to be carefull on how they "call out" the fans but I don't mind one bit that a player (one that has produced mind you) makes comment that the fan support is lacking.

vaticanplum
10-11-2006, 02:05 PM
I have a hard time believing that his comments would stoke resentment from his teammates, unless, of course, they are from Cincinnati.

He's saying he'd rather play for another team. Again, to me that has more to do with the team than the city.

Ltlabner
10-11-2006, 02:11 PM
He also mentions Theo's complement/regret of trading him and hasn't sold his house in Boston.

Actually the author added that bit to the story.... "He has yet to sell his home in Boston, and he told the newspaper he'll hold onto it for at least two more years " Just wanted to correct you becuse I know thruthyness is important. :p:

When someone first mentioned trading BA for prospects I about threw up. We finally get a good arm and literally double the number of reliable starters on the staff and people already want to get rid of him.

But I see the logic in selling high. I'd rather see it happen after 2007 as doing it now is just a cloaked rebuilding plan. And rebuilding plans nomrally beget more rebuilding plans.

M2
10-11-2006, 02:42 PM
To be honest, I don't think there's an ounce of logic in the Reds trading an affordable, reliable starting pitcher under any circumstances. It's a hari kari move at this time. Maybe someday the Reds will be deep enough on the mound they can start moving guys approaching their walk year for a youth infusion, but the organization as currently constructed needs to bleed every ounce it can from the quality major league pitchers it's got.

Falls City Beer
10-11-2006, 03:59 PM
I agree with vatican. There's a fine line between honesty and indignity. He sounds like a desperate teenager. It's just kinda gross, IMO.

NJReds
10-11-2006, 04:04 PM
We finally get a good arm and literally double the number of reliable starters on the staff and people already want to get rid of him.

A lot of people on this board think that he'll "regress to career norms" next year. If the Front Office agrees, why not capitalize when his value is at its highest? If they don't, they should keep him. I think most Reds fans want him to stick around and enjoy success in Cincinnati for a real long time.

KittyDuran
10-11-2006, 04:06 PM
A lot of people on this board think that he'll "regress to career norms" next year. If the Front Office agrees, why not capitalize when his value is at its highest? If they don't, they should keep him. I think most Reds fans want him to stick around and enjoy success in Cincinnati for a real long time.People on this board were saying "regressing to career norms" after his hot start this year...:p:

NJReds
10-11-2006, 04:07 PM
People on this board were saying "regressing to career norms" after his hot start this year...:p:


Right. Second time around the league and look out! His regression has been pushed back to next year. Possibly because of overuse.

M2
10-11-2006, 04:08 PM
Regression might only mean he gives you a 3.72 ERA next year to go with 200+ IP. I'll take extra helpings of regression like that.

15fan
10-11-2006, 04:10 PM
Dear Bronson:

After I'm gone in 12 months, the Reds will have $9 million a year that they can give to someone else starting in 2008.

Sincerely,

Eric Milton

Chip R
10-11-2006, 04:14 PM
I agree with vatican. There's a fine line between honesty and indignity. He sounds like a desperate teenager. It's just kinda gross, IMO.

A lot of what athletes do or say is gross or worse than that but we accept it. As long as he goes out and performs well I don't care if he says he wants to be the King of England.

registerthis
10-11-2006, 04:20 PM
To be honest, I don't think there's an ounce of logic in the Reds trading an affordable, reliable starting pitcher under any circumstances. It's a hari kari move at this time. Maybe someday the Reds will be deep enough on the mound they can start moving guys approaching their walk year for a youth infusion, but the organization as currently constructed needs to bleed every ounce it can from the quality major league pitchers it's got.

Abso-freaking-lutely.

So Arroyo might be with another team in 2009? That means we shouldn't enjoy his services in 2007 and 2008? Rubbish.

WMR
10-11-2006, 04:21 PM
I wish he would shut-up about it, but I don't really care if he wants to keep whining and pining for the Sawks.

As long as he keeps pitching like he did this season, I don't care WHAT he says.

REDREAD
10-11-2006, 04:30 PM
Like the above?


No, you made a comment that was irrelevant to the thread, and I called you out. Not that I expect it to change your superiority complex.

Awaiting your next snide remark.. :laugh:

For someone that *****es about the content of the board, you have more than your share of posts that add absolutely nothing.

Just like your brother seems to be playing the "Jim Bowden is nice" broken record. I guess I'm not allowed to say that it's nice for teams to quickly release players that are not in their plans for next year. It is nice. It gives them more time to hook on to another team. I even amended my comment to say it was nice for Cleveland to do it with Boone too.. But that doesn't stop the constant dropping of "He's not nice like Bowden is".

You and Pedro have been trolling lately.. I guess that's because you can't dispute my points. And yes, I'm calling you out. If you wanted to get a rise out of me, you succeeded. And don't play innocent. You initiated it on this thread. You guys butted in on the discussion Ltbatner and I were having with your little smartass remarks.

Chip R
10-11-2006, 04:35 PM
Take it private, guys.

REDREAD
10-11-2006, 04:35 PM
Actually the author added that bit to the story.... "He has yet to sell his home in Boston, and he told the newspaper he'll hold onto it for at least two more years " Just wanted to correct you becuse I know thruthyness is important. :p:


I was not clear on my pronouns. I said


He also mentions Theo's complement/regret of trading him and hasn't sold his house in Boston.

I meant the "He" to refer to the author, not Arroyo.. In other words the content of the article. Sorry for the confusion. I hope you forgive me for this atrocity, it was not intentional.

westofyou
10-11-2006, 04:37 PM
You guys butted in on the discussion Ltbatner and I were having with your little smartass remarks.

yeah these are really smart assed remarks.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1174518&postcount=102
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1176489&postcount=142

I'm such the troll.:rolleyes:

KittyDuran
10-11-2006, 04:42 PM
Hey guys... don't make the mods shut this thread down...:thumbdown

REDREAD
10-11-2006, 04:44 PM
To be honest, I don't think there's an ounce of logic in the Reds trading an affordable, reliable starting pitcher under any circumstances. It's a hari kari move at this time. Maybe someday the Reds will be deep enough on the mound they can start moving guys approaching their walk year for a youth infusion, but the organization as currently constructed needs to bleed every ounce it can from the quality major league pitchers it's got.

I agree, but if they know Arroyo is going to bolt in 2 years, it depends on their short term plans. If they feel they can contend in the next 2 years, by all means hold him. If they don't feel they can contend and they can pull off a deal like Cleveland did with Colon ( getting cliff lee, phillips, and Sizemore), then you do it. (Naturally, that was just an example of a rebuilding trade that worked out great.. before anyone mocks me for making that suggestion). Whether the Reds have the talent evaluation to pull off a deal like that is another question, of course.

I think Arroyo will be worth less at the 2008 trade deadline than he's worth now. (IIRC, his contract is up after 2008). Even if he doesn't regress, obviously 2 years of Arroyo is worth more than 3 months.

REDREAD
10-11-2006, 04:45 PM
yeah these are really smart assed remarks.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1174518&postcount=102
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1176489&postcount=142

I'm such the troll.:rolleyes:


Follow Chip's advice.. stop trying to escalate the arguement, please.

REDREAD
10-11-2006, 04:54 PM
WOY : Actually, I remembered something that Pedro said and attributed it to you in that other thread, but your post on this thread a pretty good example of the behavior I am speaking of. I'm only saying this publicly because I got you and Pedro confused on the Marty thread, so I'll give you a public reprieve on that one.

Chip R
10-11-2006, 04:55 PM
Don't say you weren't warned.