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KittyDuran
10-11-2006, 10:47 AM
Per Marc's blog...

Wednesday, October 11, 2006
Reds seek new hitting, pitching coaches

The Reds did not offer hitting coach Chris Chambliss a contract for 2007, the team announced today. Chambliss, who spent the last three seasons as hitting coach, saw the Reds drop from first in the NL in runs last year to ninth this year.

The team also will be looking for a new pitching coach entering 2007. Vern Ruhle, who missed all of 2006 after being diagnosed with cancer, will be reassigned within the organization. Tom Hume, his season-long replacement, will return to his longtime job as the bullpen coach. Lee Tunnell, the interim bullpen coach, will not return to the major league staff but could be reassigned within the organization. He originally signed on last winter to be the pitching coach at Louisville.

The remaining coaches from the 2006 staff will return to their jobs: Buckey Dent as bench coach, Billy Hatcher as first base coach, Mark Berry as third base coach and Mike Stefanski as bullpen catcher.

Joseph
10-11-2006, 10:52 AM
Man, I can't believe they didn't get rid of Stefanski! He's terrible. </sarcasm>

I'm not surprised on either front to be honest. Vern needs to be healthy for himself and his family and he doens't need the grind of a big league pitching coach. Chambliss just seemed to not be able to get any consitency out of hitters. Some will argue thats the hitters fault more than the coaches, but someone has to take the blame.

Now, do we get guys who are highly thought of, of no namers?

Should we get the former Houston pitching coach? He did a great job IMO, mixing young and old on that staff.

redsmetz
10-11-2006, 10:57 AM
I too was surprised by the Chambliss departure. I wonder if this means he's under more serious consideration for a managerial position? I think moving Tommy Hume back to the bullpen will help out there. It will be interesting to see who they bring in.

Redsland
10-11-2006, 10:59 AM
No surprise on the pitching front.

Chambliss is a bit surprising, based on the amount of sunshine that's been blown in his direction over the past couple years. Certainly the offensive production was down this season, but The Trade and The Lineups have to take some of the blame for that.

registerthis
10-11-2006, 11:02 AM
It's unfortunate that Mark Berry is coming back. One of the worst third base coaches I have seen in some time.

justincredible
10-11-2006, 11:11 AM
It's unfortunate that Mark Berry is coming back. One of the worst third base coaches I have seen in some time.

I was going to say the same thing. He did toss me a baseball in the bleachers at Wrigley this year, though.

TStuck
10-11-2006, 11:16 AM
Honestly, one of the first names that comes to mind as a pitching coach is Greg Maddux (if he decides to retire as a player after this year). His grasp of the strategy of pitching and game management would be an incredible asset as a coach. Plus, here's a guy who would have just wrapped up his career and would have first hand knowledge of the majority of hitters the Reds pitchers would be facing.
Matt Belisle has been quoted before about how Maddux really served as a surrogate pitching coach to him and other youngsters on the Braves staff a few years back when they were both in Atlanta.
I know with the change of manager and staff in Chicago that he would more likely end up there before Cincy, but I'd sure look into the possibility of hiring him.:thumbup:
As for hitting coach, what do people think about bringing Griffey Sr. back on board? With RCast's "tradition" push, he would bring back a link to the BRM teams of the 70's. Plus who better to coax Jr. along when he hits those occasional ruts?

REDREAD
10-11-2006, 11:17 AM
With Chambliss being mentioned as a candidate for the SF manager's job, I wonder if this seperation was a mutual agreement.

Or maybe it's just Cast giving Wayne the chance to place his own people in every spot.

REDREAD
10-11-2006, 11:18 AM
Honestly, one of the first names that comes to mind as a pitching coach is Greg Maddux (if he decides to retire as a player after this year).

I wonder if there's ever been a team where the pitching coach was better than 3 of the pitchers in the rotation. :laugh:

westofyou
10-11-2006, 11:19 AM
Or maybe it's just Cast giving Wayne the chance to place his own people in every spot.

Manager chooses the hitting coach, not the GM, it's the managers staff in the long run, he chooses his people in the dugout.

TStuck
10-11-2006, 11:22 AM
I wonder if there's ever been a team where the pitching coach was better than 3 of the pitchers in the rotation. :laugh:

That's called contingency planning!!!! :laugh:

dunner13
10-11-2006, 11:25 AM
Mark Soto as pitching coach.
Griffey Sr. as hitting coach.

shredda2000
10-11-2006, 11:27 AM
Mark Soto as pitching coach.
Griffey Sr. as hitting coach.

I agree :thumbup:

Wheelhouse
10-11-2006, 12:53 PM
It's unfortunate that Mark Berry is coming back. One of the worst third base coaches I have seen in some time.

? I think he's pretty darn good. Can't recall a time where he sent a runner and he shouldn't have.

Wheelhouse
10-11-2006, 12:55 PM
I agree :thumbup:

Who is Mark Soto, and if you mean Mario Soto and his name isn't burned into your head, I'm starting to feel old...

RedLegSuperStar
10-11-2006, 12:57 PM
Mark Soto as pitching coach.
Griffey Sr. as hitting coach.

I like that.. But Mario

Wheelhouse
10-11-2006, 12:57 PM
Mike Greenwell for batting coach...

RedLegSuperStar
10-11-2006, 12:58 PM
Mike Greenwell for batting coach...

whatever happened to Greeny?

klw
10-11-2006, 01:00 PM
I hope the Reds look at Papa Jack Jackson who the Red Sox just let go.

Handofdeath
10-11-2006, 02:10 PM
As for hitting coach, what do people think about bringing Griffey Sr. back on board? With RCast's "tradition" push, he would bring back a link to the BRM teams of the 70's. Plus who better to coax Jr. along when he hits those occasional ruts?

Not only that but think of those 5 or 6 touching moments the Reds could have each season when Jr's dad helps him off the field.

Topcat
10-11-2006, 02:19 PM
I hope the Reds look at Papa Jack Jackson who the Red Sox just let go.


Ron Jackson may be a good choice but what exactly are his parameters on plate discipline?

Joseph
10-11-2006, 03:59 PM
whatever happened to Greeny?

He recently raced on the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series.

Seriously.

klw
10-11-2006, 04:49 PM
Ron Jackson may be a good choice but what exactly are his parameters on plate discipline?

I believe he is from the work the count school. Here is a link to an article about his dismissal and the letter he wrote in response:
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061002&content_id=1696069&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos

Also from SOSH http://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/wiki/index.php/Ron_Jackson


In 2003, Jackson was named hitting coach of the Boston Red Sox. Under Jackson, the Red Sox:

set major league records for extra-base hits (649), total bases (2832), and slugging percentage (.491) in 2003
tied the major league record for doubles in a season (373) in 2004
led the league in batting average in 2003 and 2005, finishing less than .001 behind the Los Angeles Angels in 2004
led the league in runs scored in 2003, 2004, and 2005, as well as aggregately over the period of 2003-2006.
led the league in on-base percentage in 2003, 2004, and 2005.
led the league in doubles in 2003, 2004, and 2005, as well as aggregately over the period of 2003-2006.
led the league in total bases in 2003 and 2004, as well as aggregately over the period of 2003-2006.

Dunner44
10-11-2006, 07:13 PM
I know KGSr. was in line for the 1st base coach job last year, and Cast. went another way. I don't know that he'll be the hittin coach this year.

Soto would be a sweet pitching coach... he sure helped Milton. What was his exact role with AAA this year?

mth123
10-11-2006, 07:51 PM
I know I'm in the minority, but I'm happy to see Chambliss go. IIRC there were a number of stories this year about him working with Dunn on expanding his zone with 2 strikes and cutting his strikeouts. He didn't seem as selective as in years past and it seems (in my mind at least) to have contributed to his second half slide. I could be wrong because I really don't have any inside info, but I think Chambliss may have screwed him up. His firing kind of reinforces that in my mind.

I think Dunn needs to get back to being ultra selective. It is the key to his success IMO. That, and he's a giant monster.

dunner13
10-11-2006, 10:34 PM
Oops sorry about the mark instead of mario. Was typing fast and not thinking, plus I dont think I was alive when he was pitching. Hope he gets the job though.

marcshoe
10-11-2006, 11:29 PM
Man, I really do feel old now.

Krusty
10-12-2006, 09:14 AM
According to the Cincy Enquirer;

One very interesting name out there is Rudy Jaramillo, who has been the Texas Rangers' hitting coach for 12 years. Jaramillo pulled out of consideration for the Rangers' manager job and could become available if the new manager gets his own staff. Baseball America named him the best hitting coach in baseball in 2005.

Mario Soto and Ted Power - both of whom filled in as pitching coach at Triple-A Louisville - and Tom Browning could be considered long shots for the pitching coach job.

Team Clark
10-12-2006, 10:37 AM
I know KGSr. was in line for the 1st base coach job last year, and Cast. went another way. I don't know that he'll be the hittin coach this year.

Soto would be a sweet pitching coach... he sure helped Milton. What was his exact role with AAA this year?
Sr. is NOT being considered for the hitting coach position.

Jaramillo is the second highest paid coach in the Major Leagues. Approx 750k.

With all the grumbling about Power I would be shocked if he was interviewed.

Browning.....seriously!

Jackson would be a step in the right direction. If memory serves me right he and Narron have a history. Could be good.

blumj
10-12-2006, 11:21 AM
Jackson would be a step in the right direction. If memory serves me right he and Narron have a history. Could be good.
Narron was the Red Sox bench coach in '03, Jackson's first season there. He seems to have a great rapport with the players, but the Red Sox felt the need to hire a video hitting advisor last season, so perhaps they felt Jackson was not providing enough technical assistance. Or maybe they just felt it was time for Francona to be given a bigger voice in choosing his own coaching staff.

Chip R
10-12-2006, 11:26 AM
I'm not so sure having another Narron crony on staff is such a good thing.

Ron Madden
10-13-2006, 04:39 AM
Manager chooses the hitting coach, not the GM, it's the managers staff in the long run, he chooses his people in the dugout.

I know what you're sayin here WOY but Dan O"Brien hired Jerry Narron to be the bench coach for Dave Miley.

Makes me wonder if Miley had any say in the construction of his coaching staff.

dabvu2498
10-13-2006, 10:49 AM
Jaramillo is the second highest paid coach in the Major Leagues. Approx 750k.


Who's #1, I wonder...

Dave Duncan??? Rockin' Leo???

Spring~Fields
10-13-2006, 12:13 PM
Sr. is NOT being considered for the hitting coach position.

Jaramillo is the second highest paid coach in the Major Leagues. Approx 750k.

With all the grumbling about Power I would be shocked if he was interviewed.

Browning.....seriously!

Jackson would be a step in the right direction. If memory serves me right he and Narron have a history. Could be good.

TC,
Who has the reputation in baseball as a hitting coach or pitching coach, that really does make a contribution to bringing out the best in a pitcher or hitter, either helps them stay good or get better? I don't know, so I was hoping you could give us some solid names.

Krusty
10-13-2006, 05:13 PM
TC,
Who has the reputation in baseball as a hitting coach or pitching coach, that really does make a contribution to bringing out the best in a pitcher or hitter, either helps them stay good or get better? I don't know, so I was hoping you could give us some solid names.


How about former Braves pitching coach Leo Mazzone?

Chip R
10-13-2006, 06:48 PM
TC,
Who has the reputation in baseball as a hitting coach or pitching coach, that really does make a contribution to bringing out the best in a pitcher or hitter, either helps them stay good or get better? I don't know, so I was hoping you could give us some solid names.


Tom Emanski? ;)

Falls City Beer
10-13-2006, 06:53 PM
Tom Emanski? ;)

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/emanski_group.jpg

Throwsky, Comrade.

Blimpie
10-13-2006, 06:54 PM
It's unfortunate that Mark Berry is coming back. One of the worst third base coaches I have seen in some time.The Dodgers' third base coach who was in charge of the two car pileup on LoDuca Street last week would have to be in the team photo.

Blimpie
10-13-2006, 06:58 PM
Tom Emanski? ;)I these here parts, no Tom Emanski reference should ever be uttered without the requisite attachment of the photo which we fellow worshippers simply call "THE LID"....

http://81x.com/authors/potatoes/mcgriff.jpg

Team Clark
10-13-2006, 08:39 PM
Who's #1, I wonder...

Dave Duncan??? Rockin' Leo???

It was Stottlemeyre until he retired then it was passed on to Mazzone.

Joseph
10-13-2006, 08:42 PM
Whats the issue with Power? Not that I want him as coach, just like good gossip.

Team Clark
10-13-2006, 08:58 PM
TC,
Who has the reputation in baseball as a hitting coach or pitching coach, that really does make a contribution to bringing out the best in a pitcher or hitter, either helps them stay good or get better? I don't know, so I was hoping you could give us some solid names.

Rudy Jarmillo is the best hitting coach in the Big Leagues. He was not able to coach much this year as he too had cancer. Too mnay hitting coaches want you to hit one way. Similar to how Browning can only teach kids how to throw like he did. That's why he hurt so many arms in Florence. He insisted they learned his way and his way only. You can't just teach what you did. You have to teach it ALL.

Orel Hershiser is the best Pitching Coach I have ever been near or even heard of. Dave Stewart and Ray Miller would be tied for second. None of them are filling that role or want to do it. Dave Righetti and Bud Black are pretty good. Right now Don Cooper is tops. Don is lights out. I've known Don for years, mostly as a Minor League Pitching Coordinator. GREAT Philosophy and really good job of getting players to execute their pitches well. Mazzone is still pretty good despite what happened in Baltimore. He has more of an organizational philosophy. It will take some time for the O's to see the fruits of his ways. He's a poor communicator though. Dave Duncan is obviously pretty good too. He really impressed me this year.

Having an understanding of mechanics is important but not as important as your communication skills. Being able to get 14 hitters or 10-11 pitchers to work toward a common philosophy while maintaining individual swings/deliveries is a real challenge. The job is not easy. I've done it and want to continue to do it.


Sometimes you have players who are just plain dummies and can't figure anything out. They hit .225 and the hitting coach gets blamed. :laugh: All part of the job. A kid hits .300 and well... he's suppoed to. Teaching hitters to make ADJUSTMENTS is the absolute most important role of a hitting coach. Period. Same thing with Pitchers. Adjustments and solid base repetition. We see so many players who are so poorly coached that it is a miracle they have the success they have at any level. It's a weird game.

Team Clark
10-13-2006, 09:02 PM
Whats the issue with Power? Not that I want him as coach, just like good gossip.

Readers Digest version is he only wants to work with a handful of pitchers. At Dayton he only wanted to work with the top handful of guys "HE' thought were going to move up. There were several pitchers on his staff that he barely even spoke too.

Same thing in Louisville this year. For example when I was in Louisville at the end of the season Dumatrait said he had yet to get any instruction from Power whatsoever. :confused: He wasn't the only one. Same 'ol story. Ted likes the idea of being a Pitching Coach but doesn't want to put in the work to be one.

Spring~Fields
10-13-2006, 10:56 PM
Rudy Jarmillo is the best hitting coach in the Big Leagues. He was not able to coach much this year as he too had cancer. Too mnay hitting coaches want you to hit one way. Similar to how Browning can only teach kids how to throw like he did. That's why he hurt so many arms in Florence. He insisted they learned his way and his way only. You can't just teach what you did. You have to teach it ALL.

Orel Hershiser is the best Pitching Coach I have ever been near or even heard of. Dave Stewart and Ray Miller would be tied for second. None of them are filling that role or want to do it. Dave Righetti and Bud Black are pretty good. Right now Don Cooper is tops. Don is lights out. I've known Don for years, mostly as a Minor League Pitching Coordinator. GREAT Philosophy and really good job of getting players to execute their pitches well. Mazzone is still pretty good despite what happened in Baltimore. He has more of an organizational philosophy. It will take some time for the O's to see the fruits of his ways. He's a poor communicator though. Dave Duncan is obviously pretty good too. He really impressed me this year.

Having an understanding of mechanics is important but not as important as your communication skills. Being able to get 14 hitters or 10-11 pitchers to work toward a common philosophy while maintaining individual swings/deliveries is a real challenge. The job is not easy. I've done it and want to continue to do it.


Sometimes you have players who are just plain dummies and can't figure anything out. They hit .225 and the hitting coach gets blamed. :laugh: All part of the job. A kid hits .300 and well... he's suppoed to. Teaching hitters to make ADJUSTMENTS is the absolute most important role of a hitting coach. Period. Same thing with Pitchers. Adjustments and solid base repetition. We see so many players who are so poorly coached that it is a miracle they have the success they have at any level. It's a weird game.

Thanks TC,

Is there any reasonable chance of the more qualified coaches with a fine track record for success joining up with the Reds in the future season?

LINEDRIVER
10-14-2006, 01:13 AM
I just spent at least an hour looking for info regarding Rudy Jaramillo's contract status. I was wondering if 2006 was the last season under the contract or is there still a year or two to go.

The 2006 season was Jaramillo's 12th year as the Rangers' hitting coach though he did miss last April and May while recovering from prostate cancer treatment.

He interviewed for the Mets' manager's job after the 2004 season. Willie Randolph was awarded the Met's job. Jaramillo then signed a 3 year contract with the Rangers. He is under contract with Texas for the 2007 season.
.
While speaking with Team Clark on the phone a few days ago, we both had quite a chuckle when the idea hit me and then I offered up the possibility (though the chances are probably quite slim) of Frank Robinson coming to the Reds as a replacement for Chris Chambliss.

.

Ron Madden
10-14-2006, 02:47 AM
It's unfortunate that Mark Berry is coming back. One of the worst third base coaches I have seen in some time.

On what scale do we grade a 3B coach?

I'm not real sure how we can tell but IMHO Mark Berry does a fine job. Ronnie O' sometimes left me scratching my head. I found myself questioning the decissions of Tim Foley more than any 3B coach in the past 10 years.

How do we messure the worth of a 3B coach?

redsmetz
10-14-2006, 06:23 AM
On what scale do we grade a 3B coach?

I'm not real sure how we can tell but IMHO Mark Berry does a fine job. Ronnie O' sometimes left me scratching my head. I found myself questioning the decissions of Tim Foley more than any 3B coach in the past 10 years.

How do we messure the worth of a 3B coach?

I remember someone saying that in the course of a season, you're going to have some questionable decisions. Are you too aggressive? Or too cautious? There's risk involved and sometimes there's playing it safe. You never know.

mth123
10-14-2006, 07:41 AM
I remember someone saying that in the course of a season, you're going to have some questionable decisions. Are you too aggressive? Or too cautious? There's risk involved and sometimes there's playing it safe. You never know.

And often the coach is blamed when the player runs through a sign. I gotta think when a guy like Hatteberg is thrown out the coach probably has something to do with it. But some guys are thrown out regularly (i.e. Freel). Seems to me in those cases the player is probably more to blame. I guess you could argue that the coach takes more risks with faster players, but when the same guys are the one's thrown out over and over, I don't believe its the coach.

Team Clark
10-14-2006, 10:55 AM
Thanks TC,

Is there any reasonable chance of the more qualified coaches with a fine track record for success joining up with the Reds in the future season?

Sure there is... just like FA players Coaches want good pay and a 2-3 year deal. The Reds FOR YEARS seriously underpaid their coaches. (With the exception of Gullett) I know for a fact that several coaches were making under 40K dollars in 2000 through 2002. My understanding is that is still the case today. That's pretty ridiculous.

blumj
10-14-2006, 11:29 AM
TC, if you don't mind, do you have any idea what the Red Sox are doing? Is Magadan just a "Theo" guy and Farrell just a "Tito" guy, or are they actually seriously trying to change something? I wasn't really surprised about Papa Jack, but I thought Wallace was someone they really held in high regard and would try to keep in the organization in some capacity.

Team Clark
10-14-2006, 01:00 PM
TC, if you don't mind, do you have any idea what the Red Sox are doing? Is Magadan just a "Theo" guy and Farrell just a "Tito" guy, or are they actually seriously trying to change something? I wasn't really surprised about Papa Jack, but I thought Wallace was someone they really held in high regard and would try to keep in the organization in some capacity.

I really do not have a solid answer for you. Magadan is a good coach. I'm not sure he is a step above Papa Jack. In Baseball it's who you know and who you owe favors too. Letting Wallace go is a big mistake. I worked with him in Norfolk. I wouldn't know Jack about pitching if it were not for him.

blumj
10-14-2006, 05:06 PM
I really do not have a solid answer for you. Magadan is a good coach. I'm not sure he is a step above Papa Jack. In Baseball it's who you know and who you owe favors too. Letting Wallace go is a big mistake. I worked with him in Norfolk. I wouldn't know Jack about pitching if it were not for him.

Thanks, I appreciate the answer.

Handofdeath
10-24-2006, 05:02 PM
I looked it up and Jaramillo has been with the Rangers longer than any other hitting coach in the majors. In fact, he was drafted by the Rangers and went to School at UT. He lives in Texas and is a member of the Texas Baseball Hall of Fame. He was born in Dallas. He's not going anywhere. Interesting part of an article i found...

As much as Jaramillo taught in the minors, he learned, too. He remembers when the Rangers' minor leaguers were in Winter Haven, Fla., in spring training to play Boston's farm clubs. He briefly sneaked away from the field, found Ted Williams and asked for 5 minutes of Williams' time.

Williams nodded.

The next year, Jaramillo found him again. The conversation grew. When it was done, Williams looked down at the 5-9 Jaramillo.

"Young man," he said, "you are going to be a fine hitting coach one day."

Sporting News 8-30-04

Mario-Rijo
11-01-2006, 09:52 PM
So with all that's been said here who are the favorites to get the job(s)? It sounds like it's Jackson and Wallace if it's up too me. Although I would certainly like Mario he might be better in a lower level just due to his lack of experience in coaching major leaguers.

Bottom Line I want the best available.

Mario-Rijo
11-03-2006, 11:07 AM
Aha, bingo more info and it looks good.


Reds are 'still working' on coaching vacancies


According to general manager Wayne Krivsky, the Reds are "still working" on the process of hiring new hitting and pitching coaches.

The pitching coach choice will come down to two men who were fired by their teams at the end of the season, Jim Hickey (Astros) and Dave Wallace (Red Sox), and Dick Pole, a former big-league pitching coach who was the Cubs' bench coach in 2006.

The Reds have interviewed former Brewers coach Butch Wynegar to tutor their hitters but have not spoken with another high-profile possibility, longtime Red Sox hitting coach Ron Jackson. Cincinnati was interested in talking to Kevin Long, the hitting instructor for Dave Miley at the Yankees' Class AAA Columbus affiliate, but Long is expected to replace Don Mattingly as New York's hitting coach.

"We've had numerous interviews and we're going to keep working at it and hopefully it gets resolved soon," Krivsky said. "But it's more important to get the right guys."

Marc Lancaster