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flynn78
10-13-2006, 03:45 AM
I have to say that I really like Bronson and what he brought to the team this year. I do realize that he had a swoon at the end of the season, but I see him as a good building block for our return to glory. On the other hand, I am sick and tired of Bronson planning this reunion tour with the Red Sox publicly in the press. I get it, he can't play his guitar in the Harvard bars and misses being "revered" (pun intended) by Sox Nation. It just seems to me that he should just go on with his career and not long for those days all the time. They are the ones that traded him. We have treated him as a conquering hero. They are the ones that signed him and then rooked him but good and we have to read about how much he does not want to be here every six weeks. As the Stephen Stills once said, "If you can't be with the one you love, honey love the one your with." At least act like it.

savafan
10-13-2006, 04:33 AM
Well, he got to do a charity concert for the Reds' community fund, and played onstage with Counting Crows at Riverbend. Give it some time, he hasn't even been a Red for a full year yet. We can still win him over.

Natty Redlocks
10-13-2006, 07:44 AM
Being traded wasn't his choice. The fact that he wants to leave is useful information. The criticism he's receiving for this smacks of insecurity; Reds fans want to believe Cincinnati is the best baseball town in the world and they don't like being reminded that it isn't. But that's not Arroyo's fault so let's get off him and enjoy his good cheap arm while we have it. I thank you in advance for your cooperation.

mth123
10-13-2006, 08:04 AM
Being traded wasn't his choice. The fact that he wants to leave is useful information. The criticism he's receiving for this smacks of insecurity; Reds fans want to believe Cincinnati is the best baseball town in the world and they don't like being reminded that it isn't. But that's not Arroyo's fault so let's get off him and enjoy his good cheap arm while we have it. I thank you in advance for your cooperation.

I agree with this. Players usually aren't lined-up to play in Cincy. Based on tidbits I've read and heard over the last few years, it seems that most view it as baseball purgatory where a player either makes himself desirable to the market (like Aurilia this year) or its the last stop before baseball Hell (in Kansas City or Pittsburgh). The 70's dynasty was over 30 years ago.

Last spring Arroyo was 7th in line for starts at Boston and was purely viewed as a mop up man (an issue that needs to be remembered when evaluating WK and his penchant for overpaying). The Sox did him a favor to let him go where he could pitch and establish himself. He may be a relative bargain now, but the Sox trading him probably is going to make him $10s of Millions in a couple years. He made himself desirable and will probably move on.

Ltlabner
10-13-2006, 08:10 AM
I have to say that I really like Bronson and what he brought to the team this year. I do realize that he had a swoon at the end of the season, but I see him as a good building block for our return to glory. On the other hand, I am sick and tired of Bronson planning this reunion tour with the Red Sox publicly in the press. I get it, he can't play his guitar in the Harvard bars and misses being "revered" (pun intended) by Sox Nation. It just seems to me that he should just go on with his career and not long for those days all the time. They are the ones that traded him. We have treated him as a conquering hero. They are the ones that signed him and then rooked him but good and we have to read about how much he does not want to be here every six weeks. As the Stephen Stills once said, "If you can't be with the one you love, honey love the one your with." At least act like it.

Some people have complained about BA because they think he is actinging like a teenager pining over a lost love.

Yet, others are acting like a teenager trying to win over the girl who just isn't interested.

As long as he wins baseball games I really don't care what part of the country he'd prefer to live in.

redsmetz
10-13-2006, 08:38 AM
And yet he's playing at the Shoe tonight before the start of Bearcat Madness, the start of the practice for UC's basketball team. Certainly he was not happy about leaving Boston (it's a great town), but he's been a team guy here and done much for the community. I think folks are being picky on this sort of thing. Let's just make him love us so much he'll stay!

Phhhl
10-13-2006, 09:08 AM
He doesn't need to keep reminding Cincinnati that he regards us as small potatoes. It's becoming a tired act. It's overtly insulting, and he knows it. I'm sure Epstein realizes he still wants to pitch for the Red Sox, so what purpose does this serve? None. I'm tired of it, but not enough to want to see the Reds deal him and his 15 wins.

dman
10-13-2006, 09:20 AM
What cracks me up is that the way he talks about his time in Boston, you'd think his performance would be on par with Curt Schilling or somebody like that.

Newman4
10-13-2006, 09:27 AM
I think part of it is that stupid reporters keep asking him the same old questions and he answers them honestly. If I played for the Reds and got traded somewhere where I didn't really have ties to such as Arizona for example and the reporters there kept asking me if I missed Cincinnati, if I liked it back there, if I ever thought I would leave there, etc. Then I would answer them honestly and probably look the same as BA. All I know is that he's had a good year and is signed to be here for two more.

Ltlabner
10-13-2006, 09:33 AM
BTW, if this thread is refering to the article out of Pawtucket, RI (there was a thread on this in ORG if you do a search) then the argument that BA was pining for the good old days in beantown is week IMO.

The author added the title and a line to the article that framed it as if BA was activley working to get back to Boston. The majority of BA's comments were focused on how the trade has been good for him, he's glad he showed he could be a solid #3 despite not having Bostons offense to back him up, and that he's looking forward to proving he can be a #3 for the next 2 to 10 years.

That's pretty focused on the future and not on the past, if you ask me.

dman
10-13-2006, 09:40 AM
I think part of it is that stupid reporters keep asking him the same old questions and he answers them honestly. If I played for the Reds and got traded somewhere where I didn't really have ties to such as Arizona for example and the reporters there kept asking me if I missed Cincinnati, if I liked it back there, if I ever thought I would leave there, etc. Then I would answer them honestly and probably look the same as BA. All I know is that he's had a good year and is signed to be here for two more.

I think your right. Even Casey talks about missing Cincinnati. I guess there is just a difference in how much tact one shows over the other in how they approach the conversation/interview.

ChatterRed
10-13-2006, 10:15 AM
It always surprises me how many people put down Bronson. Last time I checked, stats-wise, he was our best starting pitcher last year. Harang is probably our best starter, but the numbers say otherwise, other than wins and losses.

I love Bronson. I hope he changes his mind about Cincinnati. I'm hoping they can unload the dead weight, sign more pitching, sign a few offensive FA's..........and get rid of Narron, who I heard had some run ins with players at the end of the season.

The shame of it all is that I think we could have gotten Piniella had we not re-signed Narron.

Revamp the roster, unload dead weight, sign some FA's, hire Piniella.........I really think we could have been a much better team next year. But by keeping Narron...........I think it's more of the same ole same old.

MrCinatit
10-13-2006, 10:29 AM
Bring a championship to Cincinnati. That'll shut him up.

TOBTTReds
10-13-2006, 10:59 AM
I think he has been more involved with the community than many (or all) of the Reds this year. He is playing at the UC midnight madness (tonight?) and played at Joseph Beth Bookstores a month ago. Whether it is through his music or whatever, I love the fact that a player is sticking his nose in the community. I think it is all talk, and that is OK with me.

Being traded, esp. when you don't want to be, must be a very tough thing for a person. I'm sure some of you have been relocated and probably still talk about your old city that you love (probably Cincinnati), but bc you aren't famous, it isn't in the paper every time.

MartyFan
10-13-2006, 12:31 PM
I hope he keeps pitching like he wants to get back to Boston...lets face it with the money the Sox have to throw around they will only bring in the top Free Agents avaialble and if Arroyo wants to get their attention he needs to keep pitching like he has....honestly with the way he pitched last season he and Harang both should have had another 3-5 wins....soI will tke Arroyo feeding off of the vision to get back to Boston anyday.

SultanOfSwing
10-13-2006, 01:01 PM
Last spring Arroyo was 7th in line for starts at Boston and was purely viewed as a mop up man (an issue that needs to be remembered when evaluating WK and his penchant for overpaying).
What do you mean? Explain.

Spring~Fields
10-13-2006, 01:24 PM
I can't fault anyone for wanting to live and work where they feel and believe that they have had a great life experience.

Doc. Scott
10-13-2006, 07:44 PM
So Bronson is living in Cincinnati in the offseason? He still has a house in Boston... why wouldn't he be there if he loved it so much?

jmac
10-13-2006, 09:00 PM
i'm sure all teams have many guys that "feel" this way toward a place. they just dont say it where bronson does.i remember quite a few yrs ago listening to an interview on the radio.the sac kings of nba had just picked up a guy named chris webber.he didnt want to go there.didnt want to stay there. didnt want to play there.he made this very clear !
before long webber ,being the centerpiece, had helped lead the kings to become one of the top teams in nba and even signed an extension.
are you reading this bronson ??? :D

if i may add...bronson already has a like for community and teammates so he's already ahead of webber on those fronts.now to work on the "top team" and "extension"...

redsupport
10-13-2006, 09:14 PM
He is probably miffed at five games or so the bullpen lost for him as well as the numerous pop flies to center that fell out of the range of the lithopedian centerfielder

mth123
10-13-2006, 11:07 PM
What do you mean? Explain.

Well let me start by saying it turned out great so I'm happy. If you look a little deeper though, WK traded his starting LF who was widely projected to hit 25 to 30 HR with decent on base skills for a mop-up man. That is what Pena and Arroyo were at the time. The Red Sox projected Schilling, Beckett, Wells, Clement and Wakefield in the rotation with Papelbon next in line. Arroyo was fighting with Lester for the 7th and 8th spots in line. If he had stayed in Boston he would have had the same role that Matt Belisle had in Cincy. At least until all the injuries anyway.

Now move forward a couple of months. Kearns and Lopez were both key pieces to the Reds yet were traded for basically non-key excess from WAS. Hat, Ross and Phillips were unwanted. Cormier was the Reds taking on a salary. Schoenweiss was an odd man out. So far WK has not really acquired a guy that the other team has hated to see go, yet within a few months he traded 3/8 of his projected starting line-up, a couple of decent young potential spare parts of his own in Wagner, Germano and Ward and is left with no real area of depth from which to improve the team. In return? Basically spare parts.

Some worked out really well so it doesn't look so bad, but I thought the old "you gotta give something to get something" theory went both ways. Seems the Reds were giving something, but trading partners were just giving up excess pieces. As well as it turned out, WK should have been able to get more than a mop-up guy for his starting LF. Kudos to him for recognizing Arroyo's potential, but he still got shorted based on the players involved and their status at the time. Think what may have happened had WK gotten Cla Meredith thrown in.

I'm nervous about the off-season and would prefer small deals and a couple mid-level free agent signings and then see where we are. WK seems to be pretty good at that. More big deals could do us in. BTW I wasn't smart enough to recognize all of this at the time like some other posters were, so I'm not trying to play the "I told you so" card. But with some time to look back, I see the pattern.

Sorry if this hi-jacked the thread.

blumj
10-13-2006, 11:22 PM
The Red Sox projected Schilling, Beckett, Wells, Clement and Wakefield in the rotation with Papelbon next in line. Arroyo was fighting with Lester for the 7th and 8th spots in line. If he had stayed in Boston he would have had the same role that Matt Belisle had in Cincy.
I think that's what the Red Sox feared could happen, that Arroyo might be relegated to a long relief/6th starter's role, which was why they wanted to trade him, or one of their other starters, while he still had the value of a starting pitcher. But, since they traded him before it could happen, it's a reach to say his value was just that of a long reliever, since he'd never actually been used that way.

By the way, it's just as easy to make the case that the Red Sox traded a solid starting pitcher for a 4th outfielder, as that had been WMP's actual role.

mth123
10-13-2006, 11:31 PM
I think that's what the Red Sox feared could happen, that Arroyo might be relegated to a long relief/6th starter's role, which was why they wanted to trade him, or one of their other starters, while he still had the value of a starting pitcher. But, since they traded him before it could happen, it's a reach to say his value was just that of a long reliever, since he'd never actually been used that way.

Yeah he was a pretty regular starter the 2 years before. So he was worth more than a run of the mill mop-up guy. Gotta acknowledge that. The point still is that WK has given up many central figures and basically only received guys that weren't in the other teams plans. It just seems like a pattern of "settling" to me. Not a good trait when it comes to winning in a game of negotiations.

klw
10-16-2006, 10:58 AM
Here is the Sons of Sam Horn's take on the Bronson matter.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=12300