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View Full Version : Wayne Krivsky Is a Genius



camisadelgolf
10-13-2006, 02:08 PM
This is a theory I have on Wayne Krivsky. It's just for fun, but I suppose it's possible that it's true. Anyway, here's Wayne's plan:

First, he trades Lopez and Kearns and doesn't get nearly the return he should. From then on, he'll proceed to make big deals in which the Reds get terribly ripped off. Before you know it, teams are lined up to trade with Wayne Krivsky. From there, every GM in the league will think that any deal he does with the Reds will be good for his respective team, and that's when Wayne turns it around, takes advantage of everyone, and completely rips them off.

I apologize for this post being neither informative nor funny.
:thumbdown:bang: :confused: :)

Ltlabner
10-13-2006, 02:10 PM
Well....at least you are right about two things in your post. :p:

dabvu2498
10-13-2006, 02:11 PM
I apologize for this post being neither informative nor funny.
:thumbdown:bang: :confused: :)

I laughed when I saw the title.

Z-Fly
10-13-2006, 02:26 PM
To be honest, I think Wayne "The Brain" is a Genius. The Kearns/Lopez trade has not worked out. It is not that big of a loss. Neither one of those guys would have a place on the team next year. Kearns cann't play centerfield, and Lopez can not play short stop well. So where would they play?

SultanOfSwing
10-13-2006, 02:32 PM
To be honest, I think Wayne "The Brain" is a Genius. The Kearns/Lopez trade has not worked out. It is not that big of a loss. Neither one of those guys would have a place on the team next year. Kearns cann't play centerfield, and Lopez can not play short stop well. So where would they play?
Agreed 100%. *5 Star!*

BRM
10-13-2006, 02:34 PM
To be honest, I think Wayne "The Brain" is a Genius. The Kearns/Lopez trade has not worked out. It is not that big of a loss. Neither one of those guys would have a place on the team next year. Kearns cann't play centerfield, and Lopez can not play short stop well. So where would they play?

Use them this offseason to acquire actual help? Maybe they land a starter? Lopez would be no worse an option at SS than Castro. If you don't like him at SS, move him to 2B and slide Phillips over. Why couldn't Kearns play RF, where he always played?

SultanOfSwing
10-13-2006, 02:46 PM
Use them this offseason to acquire actual help? Maybe they land a starter? Lopez would be no worse an option at SS than Castro. If you don't like him at SS, move him to 2B and slide Phillips over. Why couldn't Kearns play RF, where he always played?
What help would they acquire? One starter for both of them? How does that help? It wouldn't be an ace. With Washington we filled multiple holes. What if we got stuck with them and their arbitration-inflated salaries? What then? No money for any FA. Kearns probably has value, but Lopez probably doesn't. We would have to throw him in a deal. Both had average seasons, they aren't tantalizing trade bait, like some think.

redsmetz
10-13-2006, 02:57 PM
Use them this offseason to acquire actual help? Maybe they land a starter? Lopez would be no worse an option at SS than Castro. If you don't like him at SS, move him to 2B and slide Phillips over. Why couldn't Kearns play RF, where he always played?

At the time of the trade, a starter wasn't the most pressing need. Yes, the
5th spot was a moving target, but the bullpen was absolutely slaughtering us. We needed relief help and we needed it quickly. The fact that it didn't work out entirely for this season, doesn't mean it won't pan out in later seasons. Forget about Clayton, for instance, he was a throw in and he was ultimately benched, although he did help some in the final weeks. I keep saying, Krivsky acknowledged that he might have overpaid. I think overall, the majority of his trades helped out or were good efforts. And as many have noted here, other than the Nats trade, we gave up little for the various players we picked up.

Here's the ad infinitum phrase... let's wait for the offseason moves and she how this club is constructed. New players through trades, free agency, Rule 5 draft (and I keep saying, watch the minor league phase, I think the Reds have oft overlooked that part), then we can judge things.

SultanOfSwing
10-13-2006, 03:09 PM
At the time of the trade, a starter wasn't the most pressing need. Yes, the
5th spot was a moving target, but the bullpen was absolutely slaughtering us. We needed relief help and we needed it quickly. The fact that it didn't work out entirely for this season, doesn't mean it won't pan out in later seasons. Forget about Clayton, for instance, he was a throw in and he was ultimately benched, although he did help some in the final weeks. I keep saying, Krivsky acknowledged that he might have overpaid. I think overall, the majority of his trades helped out or were good efforts. And as many have noted here, other than the Nats trade, we gave up little for the various players we picked up.

Here's the ad infinitum phrase... let's wait for the offseason moves and she how this club is constructed. New players through trades, free agency, Rule 5 draft (and I keep saying, watch the minor league phase, I think the Reds have oft overlooked that part), then we can judge things.
Thank you for objectivity and wisdom! There is a severe famine of such on this board. I understand most mean well and are passionate about their beloved Reds. However, sometimes it gets under my skin when many complain about a professional and claim to have more ability. The truth is, we don't know all the facts. Let us look at things objectively and see what we do have, rather than hark longingly to days of long ago.

Krivsky is paid do his job and is regarded well for the job he does. Who are we to criticize him after 6 mo.? I could go on, but my passion overwhelms me and must be restrained.

redsmetz your wisdom bespeaks your 51 years. :thumbup:

P.S. - I would rep you if I could. So would someone be so kind as to do it for me. :)

puca
10-13-2006, 03:12 PM
To be honest, I think Wayne "The Brain" is a Genius. The Kearns/Lopez trade has not worked out. It is not that big of a loss. Neither one of those guys would have a place on the team next year. Kearns cann't play centerfield, and Lopez can not play short stop well. So where would they play?

Please clarify, which was the genius part of that particular move, getting rid of players that he didn't want or getting nothing of value in return?

BRM
10-13-2006, 03:16 PM
What help would they acquire? One starter for both of them? How does that help? It wouldn't be an ace. With Washington we filled multiple holes. What if we got stuck with them and their arbitration-inflated salaries? What then? No money for any FA. Kearns probably has value, but Lopez probably doesn't. We would have to throw him in a deal. Both had average seasons, they aren't tantalizing trade bait, like some think.

You asked what place they would have on the team next year and where would they play. I simply gave one possible answer. They both would have had a place to play in Cincy if they were still here. Are there better options out there? Yes. Are there better options in-house right now? Probably not. As far as what they would acquire this offseason, I have no idea. I do know that it would likely be more than what was received for them back in June.

I fully understand why Wayne made the deal. The bullpen was horrible and was in dire need of an upgrade. We all get that. However, the question was what would we do with them now if they were still here.

SultanOfSwing
10-13-2006, 03:19 PM
You asked what place they would have on the team next year and where would they play. I simply gave one possible answer. They both would have had a place to play in Cincy if they were still here. Are there better options out there? Yes. Are there better options in-house right now? Probably not. As far as what they would acquire this offseason, I have no idea. I do know that it would likely be more than what was received for them back in June.

I fully understand why Wayne made the deal. The bullpen was horrible and was in dire need of an upgrade. We all get that. However, the question was what would we do with them now if they were still here.
Oh, OK, no problem with that. I thought you were re-hashing dislike for the trade. I have stayed out of those discussions, but when I thought you were still mad in October! I had to reply.

BRM
10-13-2006, 03:22 PM
Oh, OK, no problem with that. I thought you were re-hashing dislike for the trade. I have stayed out of those discussions, but when I thought you were still mad in October! I had to reply.

I'm WAY beyond re-hashing that trade. It's over and done with. Time to move on. :)

Will M
10-13-2006, 04:32 PM
1. Lopez couldn't hit lefties nor play D.
Kearns is OK but not worth the $$$ he will get in arbitration.

Bray & Majik are cheap good pitchers.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE 'The Trade'

2. Arroyo

3. Phillips

4. D Ross

5. Hatteberg ( both the original signing & resigning him )

6. resigning Valentin on the cheap

7. His care in not rushing Bailey & Votto until they are ready

8. The fact that he gave up very little in prospects this year in an affort to keep the Reds in contention. Other than maybe Germano I don't see one player who we will regret losing.

9. his attention to the farm system and the entire organization

10. heck , I even like resigning Castro as the late inning defensive replacement

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Krisky

registerthis
10-13-2006, 04:34 PM
It is not that big of a loss. Neither one of those guys would have a place on the team next year.

You're right, this team certainly has no need for a shortstop or an outfielder. Thank goodness they dumped all of that dead weight.

SultanOfSwing
10-13-2006, 04:40 PM
You're right, this team certainly has no need for a shortstop or an outfielder. Thank goodness they dumped all of that dead weight.
They have no need for THAT shortstop.

BRM
10-13-2006, 04:45 PM
They have no need for THAT shortstop.

I would have liked for the Reds to try him at 2B if they had hung onto him.

SultanOfSwing
10-13-2006, 04:52 PM
I would have liked for the Reds to try him at 2B if they had hung onto him.
At $4-5m a year. IMO, that is a pretty expensive 2B considering his offensive production and defense.

Tom Servo
10-13-2006, 04:54 PM
I'm not ready to call The Trade a total failure either. Wayne was definatly planning for the future when he got Majewksi and Bray instead of older, cheaper bullpen help, and I do think Majic and Bray can end up helping us in the long run. Plus we cleared some salary on two guys who are never going to be world beaters.

BRM
10-13-2006, 04:56 PM
At $4-5m a year. IMO, that is a pretty expensive 2B considering his offensive production and defense.

Well, the hope we would be that his defense is less of a liability at 2B than it was at SS. Who knows what kind of 2B he could be?

SultanOfSwing
10-13-2006, 05:07 PM
I'm not ready to call The Trade a total failure either. Wayne was definatly planning for the future when he got Majewksi and Bray instead of older, cheaper bullpen help, and I do think Majic and Bray can end up helping us in the long run. Plus we cleared some salary on two guys who are never going to be world beaters.
I agree. Also many people seem to forget the minor leaguers involved. Harris may turn into a solid player. He was the main player (from the Cubs) in that 2004 blockbuster Nomar deal. He plays solid defense with decent pop and great contact. He has a Freel-type hustle reputation and "plays the game the right way." Thompson was a great prospect before having shoulder surgery. He should be recovered by next year and continue progression. If he lives up to his projection, he will easily become the Reds 3rd or 4th (maybe even 2nd behind Homer) best arm in the minors.

So yes, we must wait and see.

SultanOfSwing
10-13-2006, 05:11 PM
Well, the hope we would be that his defense is less of a liability at 2B than it was at SS. Who knows what kind of 2B he could be?
Even if he transforms into a adequate 2nd baseman, does his offense equal that position. I don't think so. Usually 2nd base is a power or BA position. If he fielded like Orlando Hudson that would be great. But he doesn't and never will. I think Krivsky, with his pitching/defense driven plan, realized this. He just doesn't fit in the plan, IMHO.

BRM
10-13-2006, 05:20 PM
Even if he transforms into a adequate 2nd baseman, does his offense equal that position. I don't think so. Usually 2nd base is a power or BA position. If he fielded like Orlando Hudson that would be great. But he doesn't and never will. I think Krivsky, with his pitching/defense driven plan, realized this. He just doesn't fit in the plan, IMHO.

That may very well be the case. Krivsky may have given up on Lopez ever becoming a good defensive infielder. I just hope he is good at identifying quality defense. He hasn't exhibited that ability to this point. Phillips is the only plus defender he has acquired/signed. Well, Hat is actually above average at 1B as well.

SultanOfSwing
10-13-2006, 05:32 PM
That may very well be the case. Krivsky may have given up on Lopez ever becoming a good defensive infielder. I just hope he is good at identifying quality defense. He hasn't exhibited that ability to this point. Phillips is the only plus defender he has acquired/signed. Well, Hat is actually above average at 1B as well.
What about Castro? He is an excellent defensive IF backup/replacement.

Or addition by subtraction: He replaced terrible defense (Pena/Lopez) with pitching--thus improving the pitching/defense.

Brendan Harris is a solid defender. Ross is good defender (some say he can't receive outfield throws, I don't know--but an overall good defensive catcher). Hollandsworth is a solid defender.

I realize none of these are earth-shattering moves, but I do see a pattern. Krivsky hasn't had long to fulfill his plan, but he has stuck to it so far.

BRM
10-13-2006, 05:36 PM
Castro is alright as a backup but I certainly wouldn't call him an excellent defender. Ditto for Hollandsworth. I don't know enough about Harris. I thought I read he didn't have the range to play middle infield but I could be wrong.

SultanOfSwing
10-13-2006, 05:42 PM
Castro is alright as a backup but I certainly wouldn't call him an excellent defender. Ditto for Hollandsworth. I don't know enough about Harris. I thought I read he didn't have the range to play middle infield but I could be wrong.
It depends on whether you want flashy defense or solid, almost perfect defense. Castro and Hollandsworth provide the latter.

Harris reportedly can play 2B and 3B and even some SS.

I was just pointing out that Krivsky has set a pattern. Has he acquired just defensive wizards? No. But you will notice, none of his acquisitions are poor defenders.

P.S. -- BRM we seem to be replying to each other a lot today. Are you following me around? :D :laugh:

BRM
10-13-2006, 05:47 PM
Castro has zero range. He will catch anything hit right at him, I'll give you that. Give Castro an everyday job in the middle of the infield and the Reds pitchers will be the ones who pay the price. Lots of groundballs will end up in the outfield that a SS with average range would get to. Hollandsworth is a pinch-hitter, that's about it. If range is part of the equation, both of these guys are below average defenders.

redsmetz
10-13-2006, 06:55 PM
Castro has zero range. He will catch anything hit right at him, I'll give you that. Give Castro an everyday job in the middle of the infield and the Reds pitchers will be the ones who pay the price. Lots of groundballs will end up in the outfield that a SS with average range would get to. Hollandsworth is a pinch-hitter, that's about it. If range is part of the equation, both of these guys are below average defenders.

Why do people believe that the shortstop job will be given to Castro? He's for the bench, period. Either Phillips will be there or someone else.

paulrichjr
10-14-2006, 12:53 AM
I'm not ready to call The Trade a total failure either. Wayne was definatly planning for the future when he got Majewksi and Bray instead of older, cheaper bullpen help, and I do think Majic and Bray can end up helping us in the long run. Plus we cleared some salary on two guys who are never going to be world beaters.

My opinion is that Majweski will not be here in April.

Spitball
10-14-2006, 02:06 AM
My opinion is that Majweski will not be here in April.

Why??? I absolutely miss your logic. Why trade him now? His health and effectiveness are in question. Could the front office explain or save face for getting so much less in value after such a controversial trade? Absolutely no way.

Why release him? Krivsky would have too much unneccessary spin control.

I'm interested in your reasoning.

Falls City Beer
10-14-2006, 02:12 AM
Why??? I absolutely miss your logic. Why trade him now? His health and effectiveness are in question. Could the front office explain or save face for getting so much less in value after such a controversial trade? Absolutely no way.

Why release him? Krivsky would have too much unneccessary spin control.

I'm interested in your reasoning.

I agree. Unfortunately, I think the Reds will be playing wet nurse to Majewski all next season.

Topcat
10-14-2006, 05:52 AM
I'm not ready to call The Trade a total failure either. Wayne was definatly planning for the future when he got Majewksi and Bray instead of older, cheaper bullpen help, and I do think Majic and Bray can end up helping us in the long run. Plus we cleared some salary on two guys who are never going to be world beaters.

Damn if that is not a solid eye poping reality post. Loved Felo but he was a liability at shortstop and would have been a colossal over paid mistake at @2B at a over paid price. I stand by what I have always said Bray and Majik was worth the gamble. I look back at past rumors or offers like Cliff lee for Kearns and so wish we took them but we did not. In the end we got equal value when you factor in the Payflex it will create.