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redsmetz
10-14-2006, 08:53 AM
This year's Rule 5 draft will be December 7th, the last day of the Winter Meetings. Right now the Reds have two slots on their 40 man roster, but I think many will clear off when players officially declare Free Agency after the Series, so I don't know how many slots they will have.

I wonder who we'll add to the 40 man to protect (I'm not sure who's at risk there this year), but also I think Krivsky will look at this phase harder than the past administration.

I also wonder, and I think this sometimes is where some gems are, is the Minor League phase. I wonder though if we might not take flyers on some minor league players to add some depth to our system.

Below is a synopsis of the Draft from a website sonsofsamhorn.net.


Rule 5 Draft

The Rule 5 Draft was created as a way to prevent teams from hoarding minor league talent. Without the Rule 5 draft, teams could hold minor leaguers in their farm system indefinitely, where that player may have a legitimate shot of making the big club with a different organization.

Under the Rule, teams must protect (by adding them to the 40 man roster) minor league players within three or four years of signing them. Three years for players who are 19 on June 5 preceding the signing of their first contract. Four years for players who are 18 at the same time. If a team does not add a player to the 40 man roster within the prescribed time period, that player can be drafted by another team.

There is a catch however. In order to discourage teams from drafting minor leaguers arbitralily, the drafting team must keep that player on their major league roster for one complete season. If the drafting team does not meet this requirement, then the player must be offered back to thier original team at one half of the $50,000 drafting price. Because the minor league players selected in the Rule 5 draft are usually marginal prospects or very raw, relatively few players are selected through the Rule 5 draft each year.
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Minor League Phases

There are also two minor league phases to the Rule 5 draft: the AAA and AA phase. In addition to setting a 40-man roster, organizations are required to submit a AAA and AA roster of players eligible for the Rule 5 draft. Note that these rosters are larger than regular-season AAA and AA rosters and their composition during this phase is determined by the organizations evaluation of a player, not the player's current level; the organization will place players they value more highly on the AAA roster.

After the Major League phase, the AAA phase takes place, in which other organizations can pluck players on other teams' AA rosters. During the AA phase, organizations can take Rule 5-eligible players on neither roster. The minor league Rule 5 draft is primarily a roster-filling exercise and players taken rarely reach the major leagues, not to mention establish themselves as big-league players. Unlike the Major League phase, players drafted in the AAA phase are not required to play at AAA, nor are AA draftees required to play in AA. It costs $12,000 to select a player in the AAA phase and $4,000 in the AA phase.

Heath
10-14-2006, 09:23 AM
I'd like to see the list of the players available.

redsmetz
10-14-2006, 09:27 AM
I'd like to see the list of the players available.

I would too. I suspect that will become known once rosters are settled in the coming weeks, although it's possible they may not be set until the actual date. Personally I'm tired of hearing all the Rule 5 stories of other teams. I want a gem!

mth123
10-14-2006, 10:06 AM
I also wonder, and I think this sometimes is where some gems are, is the Minor League phase. I wonder though if we might not take flyers on some minor league players to add some depth to our system.

I agree that the minor league phase seems to be more productive lately. Maybe I just wasn't aware of it before. My theory:

1. Teams have more roster spots available with Free Agency and Non-Tenders to protect guys deeper into the organization.
2. Triple A has become a place to stash spare parts and not as many prospects. The high ceiling guys in AAA are protected and the jump is too much for players from AA or A+ to stay on the roster all year without screwing up their development.
3. Computers and the information age makes it harder to keep a secret. If a team gets wind of a team liking a player, he is likely to be protected or dealt to some one else for a return. Its hard for an organization to undervalue a guy and make him available when so many talk about it now. (Maybe they read here:) )

I could easily be wrong.

SultanOfSwing
10-17-2006, 03:40 PM
I also read on BA that you can't select players unless you have enough spots left on the 40-man roster.

redsmetz
10-17-2006, 03:53 PM
I also read on BA that you can't select players unless you have enough spots left on the 40-man roster.

Yes, that is correct, at least for the major league phase. I'm not sure if you have to put a Minor League phase guy on your 40 man, but you might have to - I just don't know.

TOBTTReds
10-17-2006, 04:02 PM
I wonder who we'll add to the 40 man to protect (I'm not sure who's at risk there this year), but also I think Krivsky will look at this phase harder than the past administration.


Did we lose or not protect good players in the last administration? It is an honest question bc I don't know the answer.

And you can't include Kevin Howard as a "should have been protected" bc the Reds were absolutely right about him.

SultanOfSwing
10-17-2006, 04:15 PM
Notable Rule 5 draftees

Hall of Famers

* Roberto Clemente

All Stars

* George Bell
* Bobby Bonilla
* Darrell Evans
* Kelly Gruber
* Willie Hernandez
* John Hudek (Selected in minor league portion.)
* Mike Morgan
* Scott Podsednik (Selected in minor league portion.)
* Bip Roberts
* Johan Santana
* Manny Trillo (Selected in minor league portion.)
* Derrick Turnbow
* Dan Uggla

Others

* Luis Ayala
* Kimera Bartee
* Marcos Carvajal
* Fabio Castro
* Doug Corbett
* Enrique Cruz
* Lenny DiNardo
* Vaughn Eshelman
* Jay Gibbons
* Luis A. Gonzalez
* Jason Grilli
* David Lamb
* Wilfredo Ledezma
* Graeme Lloyd
* Hector Luna
* Shane Mack
* Matt Mantei
* Juan Mateo
* Donaldo Mendez
* Jose Morban
* Damian Rolls
* Victor Santos
* Chris Shelton
* Andy Sisco
* Adam Stern
* Jason Szuminski
* Willie Upshaw
* Lino Urdaneta
* Shane Victorino

Drafted, but returned or traded before start of season

* Colter Bean
* Frank Brooks
* Javier López
* James Vermilyea
* Fernando Vina
* John Wetteland

Drafted, but kept by drafting team without having to stay on the 25 man roster all season by virtue of a trade

* Willy Taveras
* Mitch Williams

redsmetz
10-17-2006, 04:25 PM
Did we lose or not protect good players in the last administration? It is an honest question bc I don't know the answer.

And you can't include Kevin Howard as a "should have been protected" bc the Reds were absolutely right about him.

We've lost some, mostly in the Minor League phase. Probably the most significant of late was John Koronka in 2002 to the Rangers. You can see the most recent drafts at Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_5_draft_results#Major_League_Phase

Others may recognize some of the other names. I'm having trouble following minor league career stats.

Keep in mind too that if a team wants to send a player down and don't want to offer him back to the original team, they can work out a trade to keep the player.

klw
10-17-2006, 04:47 PM
We've lost some, mostly in the Minor League phase. Probably the most significant of late was John Koronka in 2002 to the Rangers. You can see the most recent drafts at Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_5_draft_results#Major_League_Phase

Others may recognize some of the other names. I'm having trouble following minor league career stats.

Keep in mind too that if a team wants to send a player down and don't want to offer him back to the original team, they can work out a trade to keep the player.

Texas ended up returning Koronka in March of '03 and the Reds traded him to the Cubs later that summer.

How about Rick Ankiel as a target if he is unprotected by the Cardinals? Any update on his health?

jmcclain19
10-17-2006, 05:19 PM
The Rule V is kind of a wild hair crapshoot - to put it nicely.

The last two years - the consecious best players available were both pitchers - Andy Sisco and Fabian Castro - and both still haven't amounted to much.

A little bit of Reds tie in - look at who was a Rule V pick in 2002


23. RHP Gary Majewski Toronto Blue Jays Chicago White Sox

redsupport
10-17-2006, 06:26 PM
william canate picked by reds, in early nineties turned out really well

redsupport
10-17-2006, 06:27 PM
doug corbett lost by reds