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OnBaseMachine
10-14-2006, 12:36 PM
Now keep in mind that I'm trying to stay reasonable here, hence no mention of Zito, Schmidt, or Soriano. And I would love to see the Reds unload the contracts of Griffey, Milton, and LaRue, but logic says that those contracts are most likely unmoveable.

-Sign RHP Justin Speier to a 1-year deal worth 3.5 million, with an option for a second year.

-Sign LHP Ted Lilly to a 2-year, 11 million dollar deal.

-Sign LHP Damaso Marte to a 1-year, 2.75 million deal with an option for a second year.

-Move Ken Griffey Jr. to right field.

-Unless a CFer like Mike Cameron is signed, make Chris Denorfia the everyday centerfielder.

-Re-sign Aurilia to a 1-yr deal if the price is right.

-Move Brandon Phillips to SS and platoon Ryan Freel and Aurilia (if he re-signs) at second base.

-Give Homer Bailey and Joey Votto every chance possible to make the team out of spring training. Do the same thing with the young relievers: Brad Salmon, Carlos Guevara, Calvin Medlock, David Shafer, and Jon Coutlangus.

2007 Cincinnati Reds

CF Chris Denorfia
1B Joey Votto/Scott Hatteberg
LF Adam Dunn
3B Edwin Encarnacion
RF Ken Griffey Jr.
2B Rich Aurilia/Ryan Freel(Freel bats leadoff when he starts)
SS Brandon Phillips
C David Ross/Valentin/LaRue

Rotation

RHP Aaron Harang
RHP Bronson Arroyo
LHP Ted Lilly
RHP Homer Bailey
RHP Elizardo Ramirez/Milton/Claussen

Bullpen

Todd Coffey
Bill Bray
Damaso Marte
Justin Speier
Gary Majewski
Brad Salmon(I think he's going to be a very good MLB reliever)
Coutlangus/Medlock/Shafer

Thoughts?

Shaknb8k
10-14-2006, 01:10 PM
Out of thoughts on '07 this sounds probably the best. Im just not sure about Homer making it out of Spring Training. If he doesnt do you think that Claussen and Milton will be a good enough 4 and 5?

The reason i like it is cause its puts the money into the pitching. Our offense is find and GABP will make up for some of this too. I just want 90% of the offseason to be spent on the pitching either starters or bullpen. Ive said it before on here that i would rather lose a game 2-3 than 7-9.....That roster you put together right there could make it to the playoffs.

guttle11
10-14-2006, 02:41 PM
Replace Lilly with Tomo Ohka and I like it. Although, Denorfia is not a ML leadoff hitter. I'd rather see Phillips there when Freel doesn't play.

TC81190
10-14-2006, 03:18 PM
I like the Lilly idea, a league change could have a Arroyonian effect on him. Also, I think Ohka could be had cheap, so I'd do that one too.

mth123
10-14-2006, 04:53 PM
I like it all but I'm not as high on Lilly as others. Another fly ball guy and I think he'll be unavailable to the Reds for a reasonable price. I think it will take Milton money plus to get him. As a fly ball lefty he is a good fit in Yankee Stadium with the deep LCF alley. I think he may be a Yankee target. I like Padilla instead. He has pitched in similar parks in Philly and Texas and his numbers should be comparable to his current performance. Plus no DH.

Thanks to RedManRick for the Padilla idea in an earlier thread BTW..

Strikes Out Looking
10-14-2006, 04:58 PM
For what it's worth, my offseason plan is to take it one day at a time, and prepare for the '07 season. Things come up in the offseason that you don't plan for. I'm getting ready for spring training, just in case, horrific human tragedy befalls the entire Reds major and minor league roster and the need for a 42 year old attorney without any playing experience since Hamilton's West Side Little League comes up. I'm cheap, and I play through pain (I already have decided I won't let Kremcheck near me, I'll find a Native American healer first), and unlike the current Reds roster, I'll play where they play me. I also am taking an oath not to argue with the current manager (if no tragedy befalls him) just because I believe I am smarter than he is.

KronoRed
10-14-2006, 05:15 PM
OBM for gm.

Highlifeman21
10-14-2006, 07:36 PM
I like it all but I'm not as high on Lilly as others. Another fly ball guy and I think he'll be unavailable to the Reds for a reasonable price. I think it will take Milton money plus to get him. As a fly ball lefty he is a good fit in Yankee Stadium with the deep LCF alley. I think he may be a Yankee target. I like Padilla instead. He has pitched in similar parks in Philly and Texas and his numbers should be comparable to his current performance. Plus no DH.

Thanks to RedManRick for the Padilla idea in an earlier thread BTW..

Count me in as also not high on Ted Lilly. I think signing him would be the second coming of the Milton debacle. We'd have to throw way too much money at him to get him to come to Cincinnati, and our return on investment would be little at best.

One name I haven't heard thrown around too much is Tony Armas Jr, and I think he'd be a better fit for our club than Ted Lilly.

The Padilla Flotilla would be an interesting experiment, but I don't think he can keep his attitude in check to be a successful MLB starter.

Speier and Marte would be great additions to this bullpen.

I think Claussen will successfully rehab, and come back to emerge as our #3 starter. Then again, I could be completely off my rocker.

corkedbat
10-14-2006, 07:46 PM
Sorry, I never got on the Deno bandwagon. Anything more than a 4th or (preferrably) 5th OFer role for himdoes little for me.

Joseph
10-14-2006, 08:00 PM
I think Claussen will successfully rehab, and come back to emerge as our #3 starter. Then again, I could be completely off my rocker.

I'm with you on this one. He's got more talent than he showed last season.

chicoruiz
10-14-2006, 11:15 PM
I think Claussen will successfully rehab, and come back to emerge as our #3 starter. Then again, I could be completely off my rocker

I agree also. I think that if Claussen were the property of another organization, there would be a lot of posters on this board targeting him as a good potential acquisition. We may be undervaluing him simply because we've already got him.

Falls City Beer
10-14-2006, 11:20 PM
I agree also. I think that if Claussen were the property of another organization, there would be a lot of posters on this board targeting him as a good potential acquisition. We may be undervaluing him simply because we've already got him.

I hope his ineffectiveness was solely due to injury. But then I hope he's able to avoid injury in the future--this is Claussen's second major injury.

TC81190
10-14-2006, 11:24 PM
Count me in as also not high on Ted Lilly. I think signing him would be the second coming of the Milton debacle. We'd have to throw way too much money at him to get him to come to Cincinnati, and our return on investment would be little at best.

One name I haven't heard thrown around too much is Tony Armas Jr, and I think he'd be a better fit for our club than Ted Lilly.

The Padilla Flotilla would be an interesting experiment, but I don't think he can keep his attitude in check to be a successful MLB starter.

Speier and Marte would be great additions to this bullpen.

I think Claussen will successfully rehab, and come back to emerge as our #3 starter. Then again, I could be completely off my rocker.


I like Armas also. He'd probably come cheap. And again, I'd take Lilly for the right price. He could either go Arroyo or Milton on us. Ohka I'd love, because he's probably a bargain as well.

Wheelhouse
10-15-2006, 12:01 AM
As you can probably guess, I feel having a guy who hits .234 with 194 Ks and can't seem to concentrate when there are men on base, batting third, boggles the mind. I like your pitching moves and they seem very doable. Unfortunately, your starting eight would be the worst defense in the league. I'd like to see one or more moves in your plan to shore up the D.

mth123
10-15-2006, 12:01 AM
I'd be up for Ohka or Armas at the right price. Problem is they both miss a lot of time. You might need both to fill one spot.

flyer85
10-15-2006, 12:13 AM
-Sign LHP Ted Lilly to a 2-year, 11 million dollar deal.I think Lilly is likely to get a 4 yr 30M+ deal.

mth123
10-15-2006, 12:15 AM
I think Lilly is likely to get a 4 yr 30M+ deal.

Me too!

blumj
10-15-2006, 12:27 AM
And Speier and Marte are probably going to get 2 or 3 years guaranteed, too.

edabbs44
10-15-2006, 02:05 AM
I like Lilly. For that price, WK has to get him. But as previously mentioned, he might be more costly. Bob needs to get aggressive. With Milton coming off the books next year, they could be players for some arms.

OBM...no help for the lineup?

Wheelhouse
10-15-2006, 02:58 AM
Another thing--you're really right on Salmon--monstrer numbers at Louisville why on earth wasn't he brought up for the stretch? He's 26.

RedLegSuperStar
10-15-2006, 08:48 AM
OBM looks good! What about Lohse? Cormier? Castro? Belisle?

I think OBM you spent money in the bullpen when you could of spent more on the rotation/2B/OF. I love the idea of Votto and Homer, and the way Medlock pitched yesterday might be a sign of another bullpen arm to watch for. Salmon needs to be on this roster regardless. If it means Claussen starts in AAA. Could Salmon be used as a closer?? Aurilia.. that's a tough choice. His attitude gets very old.

I think if we just spent the availible starter, 2nd baseman, power hitting OF we would be in good shape. Bailey is going to be here at some point next year. Votto and Salmon should as well.

OnBaseMachine
10-15-2006, 10:09 AM
I completely forgot about Matt Belisle, and I don't know how because he is one of my favorite arms the Reds have. I like his stuff and I am of the opinion that he should get a shot at making the rotation out of spring training, and at worst should have a spot just about locked up in the bullpen.

OnBaseMachine
10-15-2006, 10:14 AM
One other thing - you know what would be grand? If Brendan Harris could come into spring training and rip the cover off the ball and win the second base job. He hit .324/.384/.534 with Louisville after the trade, so the potential is there for him to be a solid contributor. He would really help shape us the infield if he can develop into a poor man's Marcus Giles.

Krusty
10-15-2006, 10:16 AM
My moves for the offseason:

1. Trade Dunn to Detroit for RHP Humberto Sanchez and RHP Fernando Rodney.

2. Sign OF Frank Catalanotto to platoon in LF with either Freel or Denorifia.

3. Shift Griffey to RF. Denorifa and Freel will play CF.

4. Sign shortstop Alex Gonzalez as a free agent.

As for the 2007, Sanchez and Bailey both could crack the rotation sometime during the year. Rodney gives the Reds a closer and is a better option than what is on the free agent market.

Catalanotto is more of a contact hitter that Krivsky is striving. At GAB, he will hit some home runs but it is putting the ball in play instead of striking out that Krivsky wants.

Shifting Griffey to RF might be better on his legs but everyone knows that is the best thing for his career.

Gonzalez is the best defensive shortstop on the market and we all know how Krivsky is out to improve the defense.

mth123
10-15-2006, 10:22 AM
My moves for the offseason:

1. Trade Dunn to Detroit for RHP Humberto Sanchez and RHP Fernando Rodney.

2. Sign OF Frank Catalanotto to platoon in LF with either Freel or Denorifia.

3. Shift Griffey to RF. Denorifa and Freel will play CF.

4. Sign shortstop Alex Gonzalez as a free agent.

As for the 2007, Sanchez and Bailey both could crack the rotation sometime during the year. Rodney gives the Reds a closer and is a better option than what is on the free agent market.

Catalanotto is more of a contact hitter that Krivsky is striving. At GAB, he will hit some home runs but it is putting the ball in play instead of striking out that Krivsky wants.

Shifting Griffey to RF might be better on his legs but everyone knows that is the best thing for his career.

Gonzalez is the best defensive shortstop on the market and we all know how Krivsky is out to improve the defense.

So now you have the catchers, Hat, Phillips, Gonzalez, EE, Cat, Deno and Griffey. Good luck trying to score 650 runs with that.

For that team to win the slogan should be Spahn and Sain and pray for Walter Johnson and Christy Mathewson.

Krusty
10-15-2006, 11:04 AM
So now you have the catchers, Hat, Phillips, Gonzalez, EE, Cat, Deno and Griffey. Good luck trying to score 650 runs with that.

For that team to win the slogan should be Spahn and Sain and pray for Walter Johnson and Christy Mathewson.

Lineup:
1. Freel CF
2. Hatteberg lb
3. Griffey RF
4. Encarncion 3b
5. Catalanotto LF
6. Phillips 2b
7. Ross/Valentin c
8. Gonzalez ss

Less power in the lineup but more contact hitters to put the ball in play. At the same time you upgrade the outfield defense with Catalanotto/Denorfia over Dunn in LF and shifting Junior to RF. Gonzalez is solid on defense and is an upgrade over Lopez/Clayton.

Pitching, defense and timely hitting wins championships. Plus the Reds could use the money saved in trading Dunn to sign a free agent pitcher.

mth123
10-15-2006, 11:23 AM
Lineup:
1. Freel CF
2. Hatteberg lb
3. Griffey RF
4. Encarncion 3b
5. Catalanotto LF
6. Phillips 2b
7. Ross/Valentin c
8. Gonzalez ss

Less power in the lineup but more contact hitters to put the ball in play. At the same time you upgrade the outfield defense with Catalanotto/Denorfia over Dunn in LF and shifting Junior to RF. Gonzalez is solid on defense and is an upgrade over Lopez/Clayton.

Pitching, defense and timely hitting wins championships. Plus the Reds could use the money saved in trading Dunn to sign a free agent pitcher.

I like Gonzalez at SS ok and Deno in CF. I just don't think you can carry two Judy hitters like Cat and Hat at LF and 1B where most teams usually have their best power guys. And I'm not as high on Freel as most around here. I think his baserunning reduces the offense that he seems to give you by looking at his OPS. You can probably subtract significantly from his OBP for all the outs he makes on the bases (not just the Caught Stealings, but the pick-offs while asleep on the bases and all the times thrown out trying to stretch and running through signs). You would need 4 all stars in the rotation to win with the little amount of runs that the proposed team will score.

As for the savings on Dunn, in today's market you won't get much more than a mid-rotation inning eater for the money you save.

11BarryLarkin11
10-15-2006, 03:31 PM
Interesting ideas across the board. I like the Marte idea, as I think he's better than he showed in 2006.

But, as for Ted Lilly, I'd have to pass. He's one of the least efficient pitchers around and accordingly is about a 5 inning pitcher. For the kind of money he'll command, I would want more than 5 innings per start out of him.

On the year, Lilly was fourth in MLB with 4.00 pitches per plate appearance (Behind only C.Young 4.13, G. Meche 4.07, M. Cain 4.04) and he spent much of the year running neck and neck with Gil Meche for the most pitches per plate appearance.

As such, he only averaged about 5 and 2/3 innings per start. And, when you only have two starting pitchers (Harang/Arroyo) who are consistently capable of working deep into games, then it puts a considerable strain on the bullpen. And, given that our bullpen isn't a strength, I don't think you want to overwork or rely on it more than is necessary. I think there is a definite trickle down effect at work in this regard.

Personally, I think Lilly just walks too many batters and is too inefficient with his pitches to warrant any kind of significant payday from the Reds.

But, that's just my $.02.

flyer85
10-16-2006, 01:19 PM
Another thing--you're really right on Salmon--monstrer numbers at Louisville why on earth wasn't he brought up for the stretch? He's 26.Mike Burns also had "monster numbers" at Louisville.