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Will M
10-14-2006, 11:06 PM
From mlbtraderumors.com:

" Adam Dunn On The Block?
Is it possible, in this day and age, for a player like Adam Dunn to be undervalued? I think so. As Lonnie Wheeler informs us, it's "not working" with the big guy. Dunn turns 27 in November. He'll make $10.5MM in 2007 and has a $13MM club option for '08.

So what exactly isn't working with Dunn? He's hit 126 home runs over the past three seasons. Only David Ortiz and Albert Pujols have more. Dunn also has a .380 OBP over the last three seasons. Better than Carlos Delgado, David Wright, Mark Teixeira, Miguel Tejada, Carlos Beltran, Aramis Ramirez, or Andruw Jones.

The problems, of course, are the strikeouts and low batting averages. Sportswriters just can't take this. You just can't convince some people that a guy who hits .240 and whiffs 190 times is a premiere player.

Dunn slipped all the way to .229/.360/.416 after the All-Star break, and that certainly contributed to the Reds' demise. But I don't think 250 ABs should erase Dunn's previous body of work. He's pretty close to a lock for 40 HRs and a .370 OBP. You better believe that's worth $10 mil. Baseball Prospectus says Dunn is worth about $53MM for 2007-10.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some smart team fleece Wayne Krivsky for Dunn. You'll notice I said smart,which probably rules out the Cubs. That's a shame - would Bob Howry and Scott Eyre get it done? One could envision the Blue Jays, Red Sox, White Sox, A's, Rangers, Brewers, or Diamondbacks acquiring Dunn this winter. "

mth123
10-14-2006, 11:11 PM
From mlbtraderumors.com:

" Adam Dunn On The Block?
Is it possible, in this day and age, for a player like Adam Dunn to be undervalued? I think so. As Lonnie Wheeler informs us, it's "not working" with the big guy. Dunn turns 27 in November. He'll make $10.5MM in 2007 and has a $13MM club option for '08.

So what exactly isn't working with Dunn? He's hit 126 home runs over the past three seasons. Only David Ortiz and Albert Pujols have more. Dunn also has a .380 OBP over the last three seasons. Better than Carlos Delgado, David Wright, Mark Teixeira, Miguel Tejada, Carlos Beltran, Aramis Ramirez, or Andruw Jones.

The problems, of course, are the strikeouts and low batting averages. Sportswriters just can't take this. You just can't convince some people that a guy who hits .240 and whiffs 190 times is a premiere player.

Dunn slipped all the way to .229/.360/.416 after the All-Star break, and that certainly contributed to the Reds' demise. But I don't think 250 ABs should erase Dunn's previous body of work. He's pretty close to a lock for 40 HRs and a .370 OBP. You better believe that's worth $10 mil. Baseball Prospectus says Dunn is worth about $53MM for 2007-10.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some smart team fleece Wayne Krivsky for Dunn. You'll notice I said smart,which probably rules out the Cubs. That's a shame - would Bob Howry and Scott Eyre get it done? One could envision the Blue Jays, Red Sox, White Sox, A's, Rangers, Brewers, or Diamondbacks acquiring Dunn this winter. "

And this is why I say you don't shop Dunn. You wait to be blown away. Shopping him is a sign of weakness in any negotiaition and step one to a fleecing.

Joseph
10-14-2006, 11:16 PM
If all we get back for Adam Dunn is Howry and Eyre I will be one unhappy camper. Dunn should only be dealt if the deal involves an impact starter and additional parts.

Simply ludicrous.

traderumor
10-14-2006, 11:19 PM
If all we get back for Adam Dunn is Howry and Eyre I will be one unhappy camper. Dunn should only be dealt if the deal involves an impact starter and additional parts.

Simply ludicrous.I think that was an attempt at humor by someone who apparently is bored with the postseason and wrote that tripe.

flyer85
10-14-2006, 11:25 PM
If WK can ship "underpriced" FL and AK for those Nats pitchers I could easily see an "overpriced" Dunn for 2 pitchers superior to Bray and Majik.

Falls City Beer
10-14-2006, 11:31 PM
I think this is the deal Wayne wishes he had made in July.

flyer85
10-14-2006, 11:37 PM
I think this is the deal Wayne wishes he had made in July.I was hoping he would trade for Wuertz in May. That kind of deal might have changed the entire season.

OnBaseMachine
10-14-2006, 11:39 PM
I used to be totally against trading Dunn but his second half struggles has somewhat changed my opinion to where I would now consider trading him if the return is favorable. I would look into a Mike Pelfrey+Lastings Milledge/Heilman deal for Dunn. Pelfrey paired with Bailey, Cueto, and Wood would give the Reds four guys with legit top of the rotation potential.

Falls City Beer
10-14-2006, 11:55 PM
The Reds would be trading Dunn for pennies on the dollar. Terrible time to trade him.

Krusty
10-15-2006, 12:09 AM
Wayne K. makes one bad deal with the Nationals and now he is view as an idiot? What about the other deals?

Wouldn't it be funny to see the commish's office rule in the Reds favor and the teams have to rework the trade?

edabbs44
10-15-2006, 01:08 AM
I used to be totally against trading Dunn but his second half struggles has somewhat changed my opinion to where I would now consider trading him if the return is favorable. I would look into a Mike Pelfrey+Lastings Milledge/Heilman deal for Dunn. Pelfrey paired with Bailey, Cueto, and Wood would give the Reds four guys with legit top of the rotation potential.

There is no way Dunn would ever get that from the Mets, even in Minaya's drunkenest (is this even a word?) state. They need pitching and would not deal Pelfrey. Unless they are getting more pitching back.

TOBTTReds
10-15-2006, 02:11 AM
If all we get back for Adam Dunn is Howry and Eyre I will be one unhappy camper. Dunn should only be dealt if the deal involves an impact starter and additional parts.

Simply ludicrous.

I think that was a crack on our Trade earlier this season.

Krusty
10-15-2006, 08:53 AM
IF Krivsky moves Dunn to an AL team, it would probably be Detroit, who needs lefthanded hitting.

IF Krivsky could get a packaged of RHP Humberto Sanchez and RHP Fernando Rodney, you got to think about doing it. Rodney could become the closer of this team. Both Homer Bailey and Sanchez could be in the starting rotation sometime during the 2007 season.

Of course the Reds have to replace Dunn and Krivsky could look in free agency for an outfielder that might hit a few less home runs than Dunn but make better contact.

traderumor
10-15-2006, 08:59 AM
If WK can ship "underpriced" FL and AK for those Nats pitchers I could easily see an "overpriced" Dunn for 2 pitchers superior to Bray and Majik.Uh huh. Sure you can. If you want to criticize a deal, fine, you have a right to your opinion, but it doesn't help your case when you side with someone who was obviously being facetious.

2001MUgrad
10-15-2006, 11:45 AM
I think everyone is probably on the block. I don't think Wayne is afraid to deal anyone. I'd say that Edwin and Bailey are probably the 2 that would be the hardest to have him part with. You would certainly have to get players in return for Dunn though. It couldn't just be a salary dump.

kbrake
10-15-2006, 11:51 AM
There has never, I mean never been a worse time to trade Adam Dunn than right now. The guy is young and coming off a terrible end to the season, a terrible end that will be fresh on the minds of people everywhere. Not only that but it would be IMPOSSIBLE to replace Dunns offense through free agency. Nothing positive can come out of trading Dunn this offseason.

TC81190
10-15-2006, 12:09 PM
There has never, I mean never been a worse time to trade Adam Dunn than right now. The guy is young and coming off a terrible end to the season, a terrible end that will be fresh on the minds of people everywhere. Not only that but it would be IMPOSSIBLE to replace Dunns offense through free agency. Nothing positive can come out of trading Dunn this offseason.

I love how Dunn is such a superior player to oh I don't know....Alfonso Soriano? Dunn is not the hitting god everyone makes him out to be. And as far as positives go, I see not having to pay a glorified .230 hitting swing-for-the-fencer 10+ M a good start.

Red in Chicago
10-15-2006, 12:15 PM
prior to the kearns, lopez and pena departures, i wouldn't have objected to traded dunn...now however, i just can't see the reds finding a way to score enough runs, even if we got some pitching in return...

redsfan4445
10-15-2006, 12:54 PM
there is talk on prosportsdaily.com that maybe a straightup A-Rod to the Phillies for another strikeout power hitter in Burrell.. I would think a deal with the Yankees to swap Dunn for A-Rod would be a better deal for the Yankees!

westofyou
10-15-2006, 01:08 PM
I love how Dunn is such a superior player to oh I don't know....Alfonso Soriano?

Prior to 2006 both players vs the league average.


ALFONSO SORIANO

YEAR TEAM AGE G AB R H 2B 3B HR HR% RBI BB SO SB CS AVG SLG OBA OPS
1999 Yankees 23 -2 0 -2 -1 0 1 9.12 0 -1 1 0 -1 -.150 .060 -.223 -.163
2000 Yankees 24 -6 -4 -6 0 0 0 0.57 -5 -5 5 1 0 -.096 -.084 -.153 -.238
2001 Yankees 25 -3 -4 0 3 0 -1 -0.08 -5 -25 19 31 -9 .001 .003 -.030 -.027
2002 Yankees 26 35 35 34 15 -2 18 2.42 14 -39 37 30 -8 .036 .122 .001 .123
2003 Yankees 27 36 23 25 1 1 17 2.37 4 -22 16 24 -3 .023 .096 .004 .100
2004 Rangers 28 18 -8 10 0 1 8 1.29 10 -23 13 9 -1 .009 .049 -.015 .035
2005 Rangers 29 20 17 6 10 -1 17 2.53 23 -21 17 20 2 .000 .087 -.021 .065
TOTALS 98 59 67 30 -1 61 1.77 40 -136 107 116 -20 .012 .072 -.014 .058


YEAR TEAM RC RCAA RCAP OWP RC/G TB EBH ISO SEC BPA IBB HBP SAC SF GIDP OUTS PA POS
1999 Yankees -2 -5.40 -1 0 .210 .085 -.107 0 0 0 0 0 0 -4 DH
2000 Yankees -5 -2.99 -7 0 .012 -.053 -.073 0 0 2 -1 1 0 -10 3B
2001 Yankees -8 -0.47 1 2 .002 .013 .024 -4 -4 -1 0 6 0 -32 2B
2002 Yankees 32 1.68 100 31 .086 .068 .129 -3 7 -3 1 7 0 1 2B
2003 Yankees 29 1.55 81 20 .074 .072 .115 3 5 -4 -4 7 0 11 2B
2004 Rangers 9 0.51 38 10 .040 .013 .048 0 3 -4 2 6 0 -4 2B
2005 Rangers 18 1.03 64 26 .086 .082 .109 -1 1 -4 0 9 0 -4 2B
TOTALS 74 0.69 276 89 .059 .050 .085 -5 11 -14 -1 36 0 -42







ADAM DUNN

YEAR TEAM AGE G AB R H 2B 3B HR HR% RBI BB SO SB CS AVG SLG OBA OPS
2001 Reds 21 5 20 0 5 0 11 4.26 10 14 28 0 0 -.006 .138 .031 .169
2002 Reds 22 -6 11 -11 0 -1 9 1.76 1 71 70 9 -4 -.017 .031 .060 .091
2003 Reds 23 -17 14 -25 -10 -1 14 3.88 4 34 54 2 1 -.053 .034 .013 .047
2004 Reds 24 19 28 3 4 -3 27 4.72 29 52 94 -3 2 -.004 .132 .046 .178
2005 Reds 25 4 34 -11 5 -1 23 4.28 31 61 70 -5 2 -.022 .112 .049 .161
TOTALS 4 107 -44 4 -7 85 3.73 76 231 315 3 1 -.020 .088 .043 .131


YEAR TEAM RC RCAA RCAP OWP RC/G TB EBH ISO SEC BPA IBB HBP SAC SF GIDP OUTS PA POS
2001 Reds 17 2.43 36 15 .144 .198 .152 0 1 -1 -2 1 0 16 RF
2002 Reds 26 1.68 14 8 .048 .199 .099 7 3 -3 -1 5 0 64 LF
2003 Reds 9 0.79 6 3 .087 .185 .089 4 5 -3 1 6 0 20 LF
2004 Reds 46 2.92 83 28 .135 .218 .157 5 -1 -4 -5 5 0 61 LF
2005 Reds 41 2.66 62 27 .134 .236 .150 9 6 -4 -2 7 0 64 LF
TOTALS 139 2.12 201 82 .107 .210 .130 25 15 -15 -9 24 0 226

Falls City Beer
10-15-2006, 02:16 PM
prior to the kearns, lopez and pena departures, i wouldn't have objected to traded dunn...now however, i just can't see the reds finding a way to score enough runs, even if we got some pitching in return...

You take away Dunn, and get a raft of pitching, they're still going to lose a ton.

They'd be lucky to score 650 runs next year without making up Dunn's offense somewhere else.

redsupport
10-15-2006, 02:52 PM
Jackie Rodgers was an eminent guest on the Joe Franklin show

Kc61
10-15-2006, 03:18 PM
There has never, I mean never been a worse time to trade Adam Dunn than right now. The guy is young and coming off a terrible end to the season, a terrible end that will be fresh on the minds of people everywhere. Not only that but it would be IMPOSSIBLE to replace Dunns offense through free agency. Nothing positive can come out of trading Dunn this offseason.

You are right in some respects, but given his contract this is probably the last chance to trade Dunn. I wouldn't trade him for inadequate value, but you have to keep his contract in mind.

After this coming year, he is a free agent, except for the Reds who have an option for 2008. The option (I understand from the press) does not follow Dunn if he is traded.

Also, once the Reds exercise the option Dunn has a full no-trade clause, again according to press reports.

I guess it is possible to move him as a two month rental on July 31. Not sure whether he brings a lot in that situation.

Not saying I would trade him. (Really depends on what the offers are.) But you have to consider his contract when you say this is not a good time to trade him.

kbrake
10-15-2006, 04:33 PM
People need to offer solutions. Trade Dunn and sign a free agent for the OF is not a solution. Give some names and I'm sorry but I dont think team could sign Soriano. This is not fantasy baseball. If the Reds trade Dunn right now they would not get even close to what he is worth IMO. As far as free agency not much out there that I think would help the Reds this year, at least offensively speaking.

dunner13
10-15-2006, 05:16 PM
I think in less we get a stud young pitcher (like bonderman) we should hold on to Dunn. Maybe the new hitting coach can get him turned around. His bat will be very hard to replace but losing it would be justified with the addition of a top young pitcher. Then we could add David Delluci to help out for a year or two until Jay Bruce is ready.

RedLegSuperStar
10-15-2006, 05:57 PM
If I were the team.. I see how Dunn performs in Spring Training. If their is a team out there willing to part with a Ervin Santana/Jeremy Bonderman/ect.. and maybe more .. then we have to take that deal. Allow Dunn to regain some value or at least allow a team to loose a player to injury and over spend.

dunner13
10-15-2006, 06:26 PM
If we could trade dunn for bonderman and maybe alittle more, and then sign carlos lee to replace dunn would you do it? Lee would probably want about what were paying dunn now, so the money you save with dunn goes to lee. Milton and larues contracts are only one more year so if you cant dump them your at least going to be free from then in a year.

kbrake
10-15-2006, 06:39 PM
I dont mind Lee, but again in no way would I ever see the Reds to being in the running for him.

Natty Redlocks
10-15-2006, 06:41 PM
If we could trade dunn for bonderman and maybe alittle more, and then sign carlos lee to replace dunn would you do it? Lee would probably want about what were paying dunn now, so the money you save with dunn goes to lee. Milton and larues contracts are only one more year so if you cant dump them your at least going to be free from then in a year.

We're not going to get Carlos Lee. It would be, like, Shannon Stewart. Or Frank Catalanotto. Maybe both.

ChatterRed
10-15-2006, 06:43 PM
I have feeling this is going to get worse before it gets better.

fearofpopvol1
10-15-2006, 06:44 PM
People, teams are NOT going to trade promising big leage starters for Dunn (a la a Bonderman). Bonderman, after the way he pitched against the Yankees increased his value by about 1000%.

The best you can do for Dunn would be a AAA #1 pitching prospect from an organization and an outfielder that was fodder (which I think the Reds should do). So what if next year is not the big year? You'd have to think with this added pitching prospect, Bailey, Votto and Bruce in the wings that we would be pretty close. Pitching is at it's highest premium ever now and you just can't win championships anymore without good pitching. I realize you need some sort of offense to go with it (see the Astros/Twins), but I would take an amazing pitching staff and an average offense anyday over an amazing offense and an average pitching staff.

RedLegSuperStar
10-15-2006, 08:50 PM
People, teams are NOT going to trade promising big leage starters for Dunn (a la a Bonderman). Bonderman, after the way he pitched against the Yankees increased his value by about 1000%.

The best you can do for Dunn would be a AAA #1 pitching prospect from an organization and an outfielder that was fodder (which I think the Reds should do). So what if next year is not the big year? You'd have to think with this added pitching prospect, Bailey, Votto and Bruce in the wings that we would be pretty close. Pitching is at it's highest premium ever now and you just can't win championships anymore without good pitching. I realize you need some sort of offense to go with it (see the Astros/Twins), but I would take an amazing pitching staff and an average offense anyday over an amazing offense and an average pitching staff.

You don't know that.. Detroit has one the best pitching staff in the AL. A stockpile of youth in Verlander, Bonderman, Robertson, Miner, Miller, Maroth, Sanchez. To say they wouldn't part with Bonderman maybe true.. but they do have arms that would keep them competitive. Bonderman isn't going to be getting any cheaper the way he has performed so maybe Detroit would be willing to part with him for that power bat that could DH or play 1st.

fearofpopvol1
10-15-2006, 10:18 PM
You don't know that.. Detroit has one the best pitching staff in the AL. A stockpile of youth in Verlander, Bonderman, Robertson, Miner, Miller, Maroth, Sanchez. To say they wouldn't part with Bonderman maybe true.. but they do have arms that would keep them competitive. Bonderman isn't going to be getting any cheaper the way he has performed so maybe Detroit would be willing to part with him for that power bat that could DH or play 1st.

I do feel confident in what I said above. That's not to say that Dunn doesn't have value, but I think in order to move Dunn for something of great (future) value, Kriv is going to have to take a risk on talent that is unproven at the big league level.

Krusty
10-15-2006, 10:19 PM
I said before if Detroit offered RHPs Humberto Sanchez and Fernando Rodney that you seriously would have to consider it.

flyer85
10-15-2006, 10:26 PM
I said before if Detroit offered RHPs Humberto Sanchez and Fernando Rodney that you seriously would have to consider it.Reds are just in a world of crap and their is no way around it unless WK can engineer a AJ/Giants type trade.

klw
10-16-2006, 04:06 PM
People, teams are NOT going to trade promising big leage starters for Dunn (a la a Bonderman). Bonderman, after the way he pitched against the Yankees increased his value by about 1000%.

The best you can do for Dunn would be a AAA #1 pitching prospect from an organization and an outfielder that was fodder (which I think the Reds should do). So what if next year is not the big year? You'd have to think with this added pitching prospect, Bailey, Votto and Bruce in the wings that we would be pretty close. Pitching is at it's highest premium ever now and you just can't win championships anymore without good pitching. I realize you need some sort of offense to go with it (see the Astros/Twins), but I would take an amazing pitching staff and an average offense anyday over an amazing offense and an average pitching staff.

I agree that it is doubtful that a Bonderman is available for Dunn unless it is in a Beckett type deal with a salary dump attachment. I question if a #1 prospect is available at this point. Let's ask this another way. If you ran the Reds would you give up Bailey and Deno for Nick Shisher or Jason Bay or Andruw Jones?





TOP | NEXT | BOTSortable Batting
RK PLAYER TEAM AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB BA OBP SLG OPS
1 Manny Ramirez Bos 449 79 144 27 1 35 102 0 1 100 .321 .439 .619 1.058
2 Jermaine Dye CWS 539 103 170 27 3 44 120 7 3 59 .315 .385 .622 1.006
3 Carlos Beltran NYM 510 127 140 38 1 41 116 18 3 95 .275 .388 .594 .982
4 Matt Holliday Col 602 119 196 45 5 34 114 10 5 47 .326 .387 .586 .973
5 Vladimir Guerrero LAA 607 92 200 34 1 33 116 15 5 50 .329 .382 .552 .934
6 Jason Bay Pit 570 101 163 29 3 35 109 11 2 102 .286 .396 .532 .928
7 Alfonso Soriano Was 647 119 179 41 2 46 95 41 17 67 .277 .351 .560 .911
8 Grady Sizemore Cle 655 134 190 53 11 28 76 22 6 78 .290 .375 .533 .907
9 Vernon Wells Tor 611 91 185 40 5 32 106 17 4 54 .303 .357 .542 .899
10 Brad Hawpe Col 499 67 146 33 6 22 84 5 5 74 .293 .383 .515 .898
11 Carlos Lee Mil 624 102 187 37 1 37 116 19 2 58 .300 .355 .540 .895
12 Andruw Jones Atl 565 107 148 29 0 41 129 4 1 82 .262 .363 .531 .894
13 J.D. Drew LA 494 84 140 34 6 20 100 2 3 89 .283 .393 .498 .891
14 Pat Burrell Phi 462 80 119 24 1 29 95 0 0 98 .258 .388 .502 .890
15 Bobby Abreu NYY 548 98 163 41 2 15 107 30 6 124 .297 .424 .462 .886
16 Raul Ibanez Sea 626 103 181 33 5 33 123 2 4 65 .289 .353 .516 .869
17 Reed Johnson Tor 461 86 147 34 2 12 49 8 2 33 .319 .390 .479 .869
18 Michael Cuddyer Min 557 102 158 41 5 24 109 6 0 62 .284 .362 .504 .867
19 Gary Matthews Jr. Tex 620 102 194 44 6 19 79 10 7 58 .313 .371 .495 .866
20 Nick Swisher Oak 556 106 141 24 2 35 95 1 2 97 .254 .372 .493 .864

21 Adam Dunn Cin 561 99 131 24 0 40 92 7 0 112 .234 .365 .490 .855

SultanOfSwing
10-16-2006, 04:35 PM
I agree that it is doubtful that a Bonderman is available for Dunn unless it is in a Beckett type deal with a salary dump attachment. I question if a #1 prospect is available at this point. Let's ask this another way. If you ran the Reds would you give up Bailey and Deno for Nick Shisher or Jason Bay or Andruw Jones?

Probably not from a Reds perspective, but from a Detroit, LA, etc perspective absolutely. The Reds don't have many top notch prospects and the number one need isn't a big power bat. The SP needs fixed first. Even then the Reds might consider it for Bay or Jones. But for teams like the Angels and Tigers it is a no-brainer.

klw
10-16-2006, 04:39 PM
Of for an outside discussion of Dunn's worth there is an active thread over on Sons of Sam Horn (pages 6,7) which also includes Aurillia discussion.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=11804&st=120

Will M
10-16-2006, 04:51 PM
It seems most Sox fans know a lot about Dunn.

They deem him a good fit for 1B or DH only

Red Leader
10-16-2006, 04:55 PM
I like that Angels package that one guy proposed:

Ervin Santana, Scott Shields and Chone Figgins for Dunn and a prospect.

If that deal is proposed, I don't think I even hang up the phone..

SultanOfSwing
10-16-2006, 05:06 PM
I like that Angels package that one guy proposed:

Ervin Santana, Scott Shields and Chone Figgins for Dunn and a prospect.

If that deal is proposed, I don't think I even hang up the phone..
I agree, that guy was a voice of reason. Still, I don't know why Chone Figgins would attract the Reds. Unless, they then flipped Freel for pitching, hmm....

dunner13
10-16-2006, 05:19 PM
Everyone keeps mentioning the AJ, Nathan, Liriano trade, but dont forget that when that trade happened it wasnt looked at as a great trade. It took a couple of years for everyone to realize how much talent the twins really got. I dont think we should have to wait a couple of years if were going to trade one of the best power hitters in baseball.

redleg32
10-16-2006, 07:41 PM
My vote is Dunn, Larue and Elizardo to D-backs for Brandon Webb and Chris Young!!!!

Patrick Bateman
10-16-2006, 07:46 PM
My vote is Dunn, Larue and Elizardo to D-backs for Brandon Webb and Chris Young!!!!

Why would Arizona want to trade Webb?

George Foster
10-16-2006, 08:07 PM
Why would Arizona want to trade Webb?

Because Webb would really really like to play for his favorite team growing up and be so close to his home in Ashland.:D

In all seriousness, we are only talking about a two team deal, but more than likely if Dunn is traded, it will be a 3 team deal IMO.

George Foster
10-16-2006, 08:22 PM
If we were talking about a trade with Arizona, how about Dunn, LaRue, and Bailey for......Webb, Scott Hairston, and Eric Byrnes. They are looking for a catcher. Webb is a PROVEN ML PITCHER and Bailey has never played above AA. Hairston had killer AAA numbers. We could maybe flip Byrnes for a 4th or 5th starter.

http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060920&content_id=1673648&vkey=news_ari&fext=.jsp&c_id=ari

Will M
10-16-2006, 08:51 PM
I'll take Shields, Santana & a bag of baseballs for Dunn. :)

VI_RedsFan
10-16-2006, 09:38 PM
If we were talking about a trade with Arizona, how about Dunn, LaRue, and Bailey for......Webb, Scott Hairston, and Eric Byrnes. They are looking for a catcher. Webb is a PROVEN ML PITCHER and Bailey has never played above AA. Hairston had killer AAA numbers. We could maybe flip Byrnes for a 4th or 5th starter.

http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060920&content_id=1673648&vkey=news_ari&fext=.jsp&c_id=ari

IMO, I would do this deal in a heartbeat. Sure I'd hate to lose Bailey, but he could easily be a bust and Webb is a proven pitcher who would dominate here. Scott Hairston is also a very good player who I think the DBacks are underrating and probably could play 2B for us with BP moving over to SS. Before you say no to a deal like that that involves losing Bailey, just look at what our top 3 in the rotation would be:

Webb
Harang
Arroyo

That is CRAZY good.

IslandRed
10-16-2006, 10:11 PM
My problem with that proposal is that Hairston and Byrnes are nothing special. Byrnes is the epitome of the journeyman outfielder. Hairston could be something other than average if he still played second base, but he doesn't and hasn't for two years now. This makes the deal a 2-for-1 in difference-making talent, and for where we are as an organization, we'd be better off seeking deals where we're on the "2" side of the equation. It would be different if we were a 90-win club looking for the missing piece to put us into the World Series.

sig
10-17-2006, 08:49 AM
The firing of Buck in Texas means he probably wore thin on his players. They would have probably had to blow up the current core of Texas players if Buck had stayed.

Still Mark Texeira is going be after a huge contract soon and has a horrible to deal with agent. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if they traded him because of that. They will also be looking for starting pitching. While I think Tex is a much better all round player and Reds would come out way ahead on the deal, it almost makes sense to do a Tex for Dunn swap? The salary Tex is about to get and his agent probably make the Reds an unlikely destination. Just hope he doesn't wind up in atlanta.

klw
10-17-2006, 08:54 AM
Is all of the Ervin Santana discussion based on the Tejada proposal or do the Angels want to move him for some reason? He is constantly mentioned in rumors but given his age, value and production why would the Angels be eager to move him? Now that Weaver is up aren't most of their prospects position players?

Red Leader
10-17-2006, 09:14 AM
The Angels still have Joe Saunders, who was brought up this year along with Weaver and Nick Adenhart, Tommy Mendoza, Von Stertzbach, and 2005's 1st round pick, Trevor Bell.

Red Leader
10-17-2006, 09:19 AM
The Angels also have a full rotation and that's without Bartolo Colon.

1 John Lackey (R)
2 Kelvim Escobar (R)
3 Ervin Santana (R)
4 Jered Weaver (R)
5 Joe Saunders (L)


Escobar is a free agent this offseason. Colon will likely be inserted back into his spot in the rotation. I don't think the Angels will have any problems filling the 5th rotation spot should they move Santana.

lollipopcurve
10-17-2006, 09:27 AM
Mark Texeira is going be after a huge contract soon and has a horrible to deal with agent

Tex is from the Baltimore area and he's likely the #1 guy on their radar screen. How about this 3-way scenario:

Tex to Baltimore for Tejada and a pitcher (O's have several good young arms)
Dunn to Texas for Michael Young

Some tweaking around the edges may be necessary, (i.e., the Reds may have to supplement what Baltimore gets) but I see that as the core of the deal. Thoughts?

Krusty
10-17-2006, 09:47 AM
Tex is from the Baltimore area and he's likely the #1 guy on their radar screen. How about this 3-way scenario:

Tex to Baltimore for Tejada and a pitcher (O's have several good young arms)
Dunn to Texas for Michael Young

Some tweaking around the edges may be necessary, (i.e., the Reds may have to supplement what Baltimore gets) but I see that as the core of the deal. Thoughts?

Who does Texas play at lst base and shortstop?

SultanOfSwing
10-17-2006, 09:49 AM
If we were talking about a trade with Arizona, how about Dunn, LaRue, and Bailey for......Webb, Scott Hairston, and Eric Byrnes. They are looking for a catcher. Webb is a PROVEN ML PITCHER and Bailey has never played above AA. Hairston had killer AAA numbers. We could maybe flip Byrnes for a 4th or 5th starter.

http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060920&content_id=1673648&vkey=news_ari&fext=.jsp&c_id=ari
Replace Hairston with Hudson and I'll start talking. To give up Dunn and Bailey in one deal has to have a major return, and I mean major!

SultanOfSwing
10-17-2006, 09:50 AM
Who does Texas play at lst base and shortstop?
Tejada @ SS.
Dunn @ 1st?

SultanOfSwing
10-17-2006, 09:52 AM
Tex is from the Baltimore area and he's likely the #1 guy on their radar screen. How about this 3-way scenario:

Tex to Baltimore for Tejada and a pitcher (O's have several good young arms)
Dunn to Texas for Michael Young

Some tweaking around the edges may be necessary, (i.e., the Reds may have to supplement what Baltimore gets) but I see that as the core of the deal. Thoughts?
No. No. No.
Dunn must bring back pitching. The Reds don't need a world-beating offensive SS, they need defense and pitching. A solid, cheaper SS and a great SP are much more valuable than a great SS and an average SP.

lollipopcurve
10-17-2006, 09:53 AM
Who does Texas play at lst base and shortstop?

Or, Arias (a solid prospect who's spent a year at AAA) at SS, Tejada at 3rd and Blalock at 1B (or, if Blalock is traded, they can fill in with Wilkerson, Botts or a free agent -- not hard to find a first baseman).