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SultanOfSwing
10-16-2006, 01:54 PM
I realize this is old news. However, I didn't see a thread on Reds Live for it and I have some thoughts as well.

From Marc's blog:

The Reds have acquired infielder/outfielder Jerry Gil from the Diamondbacks for right-hander Abe Woody. Gil has 29 big-league games under his belt but spent all of 2006 in the minors. He hit .256 with 28 doubles, 27 homers and 89 RBIs in 128 games between Class AA Tennessee (I just passed their ballpark a while ago) and Class AAA Tucson. Gil, who turns 24 tomorrow, is a nephew of legendary former Reds hurler Josias Manzanillo. He has been added to the 40-man roster.

UPDATE: Wayne Krivsky says Gil has enough arm to play third base, center field or right field, though his natural position is shortstop. As for his bat:

"He’s obviously got some power," said Krivsky. "He strikes out a little too much and doesn’t walk quite enough. But he’s got a lot of ability and tools. We like the package and thought it was worthwhile to go ahead and do it."

Stats for Jerry Gil:



Year Age* Lg Tm G AB H 2B 3B HR RBI R SB CS BB SO AVG OBP SLG OPS
2003 20 A - 116 429 111 16 6 4 58 52 19 10 10 90 .259 .275 .352 .627
2004 21 AAA TUC 114 421 117 31 8 11 58 53 12 1 12 94 .278 .299 .468 .767
2004 21 MAJ AZ 29 86 15 2 1 0 8 3 2 0 0 33 .174 .182 .221 .403
2005 22 AA TEN 55 199 51 7 3 10 29 28 10 7 8 52 .256 .288 .472 .760
2006 23 AA TEN 111 446 117 27 6 26 86 71 6 6 18 111 .269 .302 .531 .833
2006 23 AAA TUC 16 47 6 1 0 1 3 6 1 0 0 15 .128 .146 .213 .359


The scouting reports say he is a great fielder. BA rated him as "Best Defensive Infielder" and "Best Defensive Arm" in 2005 He has played SS, 3B, RF, and CF. The more I look at this, it seems like a good pickup to me. He has some promise. He is young as well. (He just turned 24 on Saturday.)

He strikes me as similar to Brandon Phillips... defensive wizard, great power, strikes out too much, swings for fences, club soured on him. But he doesn't have the bad attitude reputation and looks to be even better defensively and power-wise.

What are your thoughts? Do you think Gil can actually help the Reds in 2007 (or 2008)?

Red Leader
10-16-2006, 02:03 PM
He has terrible on-base skills. He rarely ever walks. Having said that, if Ryan Freel becomes a regular next year, Gil would be a serviceable utility guy.

I had wished they could have gotten Scott Hairston or Alberto Callaspo from the D-backs. Would have take more than just Woody, but it would have been more beneficial as well.

Unassisted
10-16-2006, 02:06 PM
Since I haven't read the other thread, these may appear to be well-worn views. I think he either makes Ray Olmedo expendable or provides an insurance policy in the infield if Aurilia doesn't return in '07.

TeamSelig
10-16-2006, 02:07 PM
As long as he's not a starter, I don't see any problems with it. I'm loving the power, especially at the SS position.

M2
10-16-2006, 02:07 PM
I imagine he could obviate the perceived need to keep Juan Castro around ... except the team gave Castro a guaranteed contract.

SultanOfSwing
10-16-2006, 02:18 PM
As long as he's not a starter, I don't see any problems with it. I'm loving the power, especially at the SS position.
I agree, he could be a good pinch-hitter and a great defensive replacement. And hey maybe the new hitting coach can work on his approach a little and he could be pretty good all around.

klw
10-16-2006, 03:43 PM
"He’s obviously got some power," said Krivsky. "He strikes out a little too much and doesn’t walk quite enough. But he’s got a lot of ability and tools. We like the package and thought it was worthwhile to go ahead and do it."


So much for the theory that Krivsky wants to get rid of all the Reds who strikeout.

redsupport
10-16-2006, 03:46 PM
His initials are J.G. the identical initials to one of the all time Red greats
JOE GAINES

mth123
10-16-2006, 08:03 PM
Maybe they wanted his versatility to make it easier to part with Freel.

cincy09
10-16-2006, 08:08 PM
Maybe they wanted his versatility to make it easier to part with Freel.

my thoughts as well, although I'm not sure we could get a lot for Freel

mth123
10-16-2006, 10:27 PM
my thoughts as well, although I'm not sure we could get a lot for Freel

I don't know. With teams carrying 12 pitchers a guy like Freel who can play a lot of positions (some very well) and contribute on offense when he plays are pretty valuable. From the Reds standpoint, if he could bring a competent younger SS who may be blocked by a vet or a decent young hard throwing reliever that might be able to move into a closer role, I'd deal him. He probably won't bring a decent starting pitcher, an established closer or an established starting offensive player.

His versatility may be more valuable to some one else now. His IF playing time is probably over in Cincy because the Reds are wanting Phillips to stay at 2B and they also have Harris and now Gil. His bat doesn't seem as valuable in the OF. There are some aging Lead-off OF types out there that could probably be had fairly cheaply (Lofton, Roberts) that could be signed as insurance for (and to possibly split time with) Deno. The Reds would probably save $ as well.

pahster
10-16-2006, 11:22 PM
That OBP...just...wow...its atrocious.

Jr's Boy
10-17-2006, 12:47 AM
Gil, who turns 24 tomorrow, is a nephew of legendary former Reds hurler Josias Manzanillo.




You mean Manzanugget.

Ron Madden
10-17-2006, 02:44 AM
I don't know. With teams carrying 12 pitchers a guy like Freel who can play a lot of positions (some very well) and contribute on offense when he plays are pretty valuable. From the Reds standpoint, if he could bring a competent younger SS who may be blocked by a vet or a decent young hard throwing reliever that might be able to move into a closer role, I'd deal him. He probably won't bring a decent starting pitcher, an established closer or an established starting offensive player.

His versatility may be more valuable to some one else now. His IF playing time is probably over in Cincy because the Reds are wanting Phillips to stay at 2B and they also have Harris and now Gil. His bat doesn't seem as valuable in the OF. There are some aging Lead-off OF types out there that could probably be had fairly cheaply (Lofton, Roberts) that could be signed as insurance for (and to possibly split time with) Deno. The Reds would probably save $ as well.

It might be a good idea for any other team to sign one of the aging lead-off OF types. We must remember Jerry Narron is the Reds Manager.

Narron would let Deno rot on the bench in order to get a scrappy vet who knows how to play the game into the everyday line up. ;)

lollipopcurve
10-17-2006, 08:02 AM
Gil goes into development, not onto the Reds bench in 07. He'll be in AAA, gaining experience. If he can play infield and outfield and supply RH power off the bench, and you don't find a lot of players like that, he'll be as asset. Woody may become a major league middle reliever -- best-case scenario for him. Most likely neither player makes an impact, but I agree with Doc here -- when you're trading marginal minor leaguers, take the guy with the higher ceiling.

BuckU
10-17-2006, 10:04 AM
Not to be confused with Benji Gil

M2
10-17-2006, 10:36 AM
Not to be confused with Benji Gil

Or Jerry the Bellybutton Elf.

Red Leader
10-17-2006, 11:04 AM
Or Jerry the Bellybutton Elf.

:laugh:

Or Jerry Garcia, or Geronimo Gil, or Vince Gill, or Jerry Lewis.

No sir. We're talking 'bout Jerry Gil.

RichRed
10-17-2006, 11:47 AM
:laugh:

Or Jerry Garcia, or Geronimo Gil, or Vince Gill, or Jerry Lewis.

No sir. We're talking 'bout Jerry Gil.

Just to be clear, we're NOT talking about Gil Gerard or ol' Gil from the Simpsons? Because I bet Buck Rogers has a higher OBP than Jerry Gil.

MississippiRed
10-17-2006, 11:51 AM
I agree, he could be a good pinch-hitter and a great defensive replacement. And hey maybe the new hitting coach can work on his approach a little and he could be pretty good all around.

If the guy is really a defensive wizard at SS, he would be in my lineup on opening day. If the team is serious about improving the up-the-middle defense, then a drop in OPS is warranted. There aren't that many defensive wizards at SS with .850+ OPS out there. Gil sounds like Adam Everett with more pop in his bat.

This may be an especially good move if it frees up some $ (Aurillia's salary?) to get a RH hitting first baseman to platoon with Hatteburg. Also, I think GABP requires some sinker-ball pitchers. If we get a couple of those, then a plus defender at SS will be a no-brainer.

I'd bat him 8th and let him get those intentional walks hitting in front of the pitcher. Maybe that will teach him some patience. Phillips showed how nice it can be to have a middle-infielder with pop in the bottom half of the order.

pedro
10-17-2006, 03:49 PM
from BP.

You might be surprised by this given the guy's track record, but I really like the decision to pick up Gil. Not in a shout-it-to-the-rooftops sort of way, but it's not a bad little snag, and it might even turn out being particularly tasty if the club hadn't already wasn't money and committed roster space to the always-execrable Juan Castro. As a 23-year-old, Gil just had a nice little breakout of sorts at the plate at Double-A, hitting .269/.301/.531 at Tennessee before finishing up the year at Tucson (and struggling). While his 111/18 strikeout/walk ratio in the Southern League is pretty gruesome, keep in mind that Gil's a slick-fielding shortstops with one of the best arms on the planet, and he might eventually be playing in the bandbox the Reds call home. Although the D-backs were getting frustrated that Gil wasn't working on improving his approach to hitting, that power is tantalizing to make him an interesting alternative to the Castros and the Royce Claytons of the world, and make him potentially particularly well-adapted to exploit Cincinnati's reachable fences.

However, there's also a fallback, in that if Gil's inability to master the strikezone as a hitter becomes so debilitating that he can't cut it, even as an infield reserve, there's been talk that he might make a nice conversion project to the mound because of his arm strength. There's no point in speculating how good he might or might not be as a pitcher, other than that he'd have a fastball, he'd be more dangerous than most moundsmen at the plate, and he'd presumably be a pretty nimble-fielder once he adapts to coming off of the mound. As a fall-back, it's far from a sure thing, but it's something to keep in mind. Basically, a nice little pickup for Wayne Krivsky.

BigRed
10-17-2006, 09:20 PM
Could be a surprise pickup. We all know that a change of scenery can work to spark plug a player, see Phillips, Brandon.

IslandRed
10-17-2006, 09:27 PM
One other thing is that he was moved off of shortstop because he was blocked in the organization, not because he couldn't play there, much like Brandon Phillips' experience in Cleveland. If he really is that slick with the glove, I'd rather see him play shortstop at Louisville and try to find a map of the strike zone and maybe he could turn into a not-bad everyday player down the road. Given the wasteland that is our organization's middle-infield depth, no sense consigning him to the utility-guy bin too quickly.

Superdude
10-17-2006, 09:36 PM
The next Bill Hall?

Will M
10-17-2006, 09:45 PM
continues to look not only at the major leaguee roster but also the minors.

The Yanks might not need to do this but the small pickups that pan out can really help a small market team

Redmachine2003
10-18-2006, 10:18 PM
If Gil can put up Lopez numbers with better D then this is a good pick up.

Patrick Bateman
10-18-2006, 11:45 PM
If Gil can put up Lopez numbers with better D then this is a good pick up.


If he can do that he will be the top SS in the NL.

Topcat
10-19-2006, 12:30 AM
The guy has power and plays good D, sounds like it was worth the shot honestly.

Patrick Bateman
10-19-2006, 12:31 AM
The guy has power and plays good D, sounds like it was worth the shot honestly.

Agreed. Those tools don't come paired together at SS very often.
He's got a long way to go, but I think it's a decent risk.

dougdirt
10-19-2006, 01:43 AM
Agreed. Those tools don't come paired together at SS very often.
He's got a long way to go, but I think it's a decent risk.

Was it even much of a risk? Abe Woody was a 31st round draft pick in Sarasota putting up decent but not mind blowing numbers.

Topcat
10-19-2006, 04:40 AM
Was it even much of a risk? Abe Woody was a 31st round draft pick in Sarasota putting up decent but not mind blowing numbers.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxactly Doug and you know this stuff big time.

Patrick Bateman
10-19-2006, 12:12 PM
Was it even much of a risk? Abe Woody was a 31st round draft pick in Sarasota putting up decent but not mind blowing numbers.

What I mean is the risk of using a roster spot on him rather than someone else.

I think he's a good use of a 40 man spot.

SultanOfSwing
10-19-2006, 12:18 PM
What I mean is the risk of using a roster spot on him rather than someone else.

I think he's a good use of a 40 man spot.
Agreed. What does say Ray Olmedo offer that Gil doesn't? It seems as though Gil's D may be even better and he has really good power. The upside is tremendous. Think FeLo with great D (although a little less, but a little more power). Wow!

I think these kind of moves can really pay off in the long run and make a ballclub.

dougdirt
10-19-2006, 12:24 PM
What I mean is the risk of using a roster spot on him rather than someone else.

I think he's a good use of a 40 man spot.

Gotcha. I think it was a good use as well. I mean lets be honest here, how often does a team actually use all 40 roster spots for the big league club in one season? With all the crap that the Reds went through this year, they didnt.

RedsManRick
10-19-2006, 12:48 PM
I think Bill Hall might not be a bad comp. He's very athletic and has quite a bit of pop, just no plate discipline. The problem of course is that .280/.310/.450 is one thing, .230/.260/.400 is quite another (one is tolerable, if not decent, the other is not). If he can make enough contact, his power should help offset his lack of OBP. I wouldn't mind a slick defending MI with pop but low OBP batting 8th.

That said, his 47 ABs in the PCL are less than inspring. 6 hits, 0 BB, 15 SOs.

M2
10-19-2006, 01:06 PM
I'm still wondering. If you can get a guy like Jerry Gil for something as neglible as Abe Woody, why would you ever have felt the need to give Juan Castro a two-year deal? It would seem to me that kids like Gil, with elite defensive talents, would make a great-hands-no-range guy like Castro worth nothing more than a non-roster invite.

SultanOfSwing
10-19-2006, 01:09 PM
I think Bill Hall might not be a bad comp. He's very athletic and has quite a bit of pop, just no plate discipline. The problem of course is that .280/.310/.450 is one thing, .230/.260/.400 is quite another (one is tolerable, if not decent, the other is not). If he can make enough contact, his power should help offset his lack of OBP. I wouldn't mind a slick defending MI with pop but low OBP batting 8th.

That said, his 47 ABs in the PCL are less than inspring. 6 hits, 0 BB, 15 SOs.
I agree, Bill Hall might be a decent comp. I actually see Gil as having more upside. I calculated their career BB & SO per AB. Here are the results:

Bill Hall
3.31 AB/SO 2006
3.78 AB/SO Career
8.52 AB/BB 2006
12.17 AB/BB Career

Jerry Gil
4.04 AB/SO 2006
4.08 AB/SO Career
24.78 AB/BB 2006
32.33 AB/BB Career

Remember though that these are almost solely minor league stats for Gil. It appears that Gil strikeouts less but walks far less. It also seems that Gil has more power potential and better speed and more versatility. The other advantage is obviously defense. Bill Hall and good/slick defense have never been seen together. Gil comes with it as a calling card.

If the hitting coaches can work on his patience, this could be a very, very good pickup as soon as next year.

SultanOfSwing
10-19-2006, 01:14 PM
I'm still wondering. If you can get a guy like Jerry Gil for something as neglible as Abe Woody, why would you ever have felt the need to give Juan Castro a two-year deal? It would seem to me that kids like Gil, with elite defensive talents, would make a great-hands-no-range guy like Castro worth nothing more than a non-roster invite.
I think the Castro moves provides guaranteed defense. But most importantly veteran presence and training (I know, I know) to help the young infielders. Almost like a player/coach. He speaks Spanish so likely helps out EE the most. If you noticed, EE errors went way down since Castro came here, and Castro took credit for it. If Castro transform EE into a complete GG-caliber defensive player to go along with his offensive prowess, I don't think you can even quantify his value. Just my opinion.

redsupport
10-19-2006, 01:15 PM
so you think this retread, this nobody, is better than bIll Hall, just amazing, not only is it preposterous but if you dont have respect for what Bill Hall does when he consistently pulverizes the Reds "pitching staff" I dont know what games you have been watching for three years

dougdirt
10-19-2006, 01:20 PM
No one said he is better than Bill Hall, people said his potential may be that of a slightly better version of Bill Hall. I also am not sure he is a "retread, or a nobody". He has talent.

OldXOhio
10-19-2006, 01:20 PM
Not to be confused with Benji Gil

In looking at those OBP numbers, I'm thinking you just might confuse the two.

SultanOfSwing
10-19-2006, 01:21 PM
so you think this retread, this nobody, is better than bIll Hall, just amazing, not only is it preposterous but if you dont have respect for what Bill Hall does when he consistently pulverizes the Reds "pitching staff" I dont know what games you have been watching for three years
No. I said he has the potential to be better. There is a big difference. And don't qualify Hall based only upon his play against the Reds. Hall is a quality player, no doubt and Gil has a long way to go to achieve Hall's success. But I can see Gil as potentially being more successful than Hall because he has more and better tools.

All that being said, we must see Gil at the major-league level first, before passing any real judgment.

P.S.-- I wouldn't call Gil a retread or a nobody by any stretch of the imagination. He just turned 24. He is younger than Phillips. Would you call Brandon Phillips a retread?

redsupport
10-19-2006, 01:22 PM
why stop with Bill Hall, lets proclaim better than Jimmy Rollins in addition

SultanOfSwing
10-19-2006, 01:26 PM
why stop with Bill Hall, lets proclaim better than Jimmy Rollins in addition
How you ever got 195 rep points is beyond me.

CTA513
10-19-2006, 01:26 PM
why stop with Bill Hall, lets proclaim better than Jimmy Rollins in addition


50 times better than Hall and 62.5 times better than Rollins.

:eek:

M2
10-19-2006, 01:30 PM
I agree, Bill Hall might be a decent comp. I actually see Gil as having more upside.

I don't, unless Gil's got some crazy bat speed we haven't heard about. Hall's an electric athlete who could get around on Sid Finch's fastball. Gil's numbers scream "slow bat, good power." The kid's shown zero ability to hit for average.

SultanOfSwing
10-19-2006, 01:51 PM
I don't, unless Gil's got some crazy bat speed we haven't heard about. Hall's an electric athlete who could get around on Sid Finch's fastball. Gil's numbers scream "slow bat, good power." The kid's shown zero ability to hit for average.
I don't really know anything about his bat speed. I do know Gil is a more complete player if he can attain a semblance of BA and OBP. He appears to have crazy power and more speed than Hall. We know his defense is way, way better. I think in the end, if Gil can improve his patience and batting eye he has the potential to be better than Hall is right now. Now Hall can certainly improve and become a decent to fine defensive player, but it is less likely. Hall is 3 years older than Gil.

I just think Gil has very good potential, especially considering his age.

TC81190
10-19-2006, 01:58 PM
That OBP...just...wow...its atrocious.

Yeah. If he SLGs 500 though, I could deal with a 310 OBP from a MIF/CF (so long as he bats 7 or 8.)

Chip R
10-19-2006, 01:58 PM
The next Bill Hall?


Gil's going to kill the Reds too?

pahster
10-19-2006, 02:02 PM
Yeah. If he SLGs 500 though, I could deal with a 310 OBP from a MIF/CF (so long as he bats 7 or 8.)

Me too, but at this point it might be a stretch to assume that he could repeat that AA line at the major league level.

As an aside, I'm not saying I oppose his acquisition (its not like the Reds gave up a great deal in the trade), he just doesn't excite me as much as he appears to based on the responses in this thread so far.

redsupport
10-19-2006, 02:08 PM
Yes I am very excited, he holds a bat at home plate, therefore he bears some resemblance to Hank Aaron

M2
10-19-2006, 02:38 PM
I don't really know anything about his bat speed. I do know Gil is a more complete player if he can attain a semblance of BA and OBP. He appears to have crazy power and more speed than Hall. We know his defense is way, way better. I think in the end, if Gil can improve his patience and batting eye he has the potential to be better than Hall is right now. Now Hall can certainly improve and become a decent to fine defensive player, but it is less likely. Hall is 3 years older than Gil.

I just think Gil has very good potential, especially considering his age.

I don't think anyone who can't find 1B has very good potential. Gil's really not that much different than Dane Sardinha was a few years back (no average, no walks, some pop, great D).

However, I do think that if Gil's defensive skills are elite that he'd be a useful bench player. I'd never want to start a guy for whom a .300 OB is nothing more than a wistful hope, but I'd sure be willing to put a legitimate stellar defensive middle IF on the 25-man. Maximize his innings in the field and minimize his ABs.

Doc. Scott
10-19-2006, 02:40 PM
How you ever got 195 rep points is beyond me.

Blame FCB for that.

Doc. Scott
10-19-2006, 02:43 PM
I don't think anyone who can't find 1B has very good potential. Gil's really not that much different than Dane Sardinha was a few years back (no average, no walks, some pop, great D).

However, I do think that if Gil's defensive skills are elite that he'd be a useful bench player. I'd never want to start a guy for whom a .300 OB is nothing more than a wistful hope, but I'd sure be willing to put a legitimate stellar defensive middle IF on the 25-man. Maximize his innings in the field and minimize his ABs.

Sardinha never had the kind of power Gil does. Gil has also improved that power over time, while Dane is the exact same player today with the exact same abilities he had at Pepperdine. And as the pitching got tougher, he stayed the same (assist to Wooderson (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000190/)).

And I have to say I wonder why the D-Backs would spend most of 2006 playing the guy in center field if he was so great and award-winning at shortstop. Haven't reconciled those two bits of info yet.

LoganBuck
10-19-2006, 02:48 PM
Gil's going to kill the Reds too?

:D :D :D

redsupport
10-19-2006, 02:55 PM
does anyone remember Gus Gil? a great reds farmhand

CTA513
10-19-2006, 03:09 PM
Yes I am very excited, he holds a bat at home plate, therefore he bears some resemblance to Hank Aaron

Hes better than Aaron.

SultanOfSwing
10-19-2006, 03:11 PM
And I have to say I wonder why the D-Backs would spend most of 2006 playing the guy in center field if he was so great and award-winning at shortstop. Haven't reconciled those two bits of info yet.
Because SS was being filled by Stephen Drew--the best SS prospect in baseball. I don't think that is a knock on Gil. Probably a complement, as they still wanted to play Gil, and it demonstrated that he has some serious tools to be that versatile.

M2
10-19-2006, 03:34 PM
Sardinha never had the kind of power Gil does. Gil has also improved that power over time, while Dane is the exact same player today with the exact same abilities he had at Pepperdine. And as the pitching got tougher, he stayed the same (assist to Wooderson (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000190/)).

Though I'd suggest that Sardinha's lack of BA skills combined with that awful eye of his is what kept him from progressing and that the same thing likely will put a low ceiling on Gil. He'll need his power to go from interesting to sick in order to overcome the deficits in his plate approach.

Yet, if he's great defender who occasionally hits a rocket, I'm cool with that on the bench.

Here's my prime reason to root for him to be better than that: he'll surely be called the Gila Monster if he takes a Bill Hall turn.

Chip R
10-19-2006, 03:53 PM
Here's my prime reason to root for him to be better than that: he'll surely be called the Gila Monster if he takes a Bill Hall turn.


Yeah, but wouldn't you rather have a guy with the name of Abe Woody around?

M2
10-19-2006, 03:56 PM
Yeah, but wouldn't you rather have a guy with the name of Abe Woody around?

Not when Jonathan Coutlangus is almost ready to dive into the majors.

BoydsOfSummer
10-19-2006, 04:09 PM
Should have tossed in another Woody-like player or two and snagged Scott Hairston. Somebody will do it and have a very nice bench player if not more. That guy is being wasted in Arizona.

Patrick Bateman
10-19-2006, 04:30 PM
I think Juan Uribe circa 2006 (with fielding) is a better comp to Gil than Bill Hall is.

Falls City Beer
10-19-2006, 04:30 PM
Not when Jonathan Coutlangus is almost ready to dive into the majors.

Dude's so close he can almost taste it.

flyer85
10-19-2006, 04:34 PM
snagged Scott Hairston. couldn't agree more. Gil is worthless while hairston could turn into a good everyday player(it just likely won't happen in Arizona).

dougdirt
10-19-2006, 05:59 PM
Gil is worthless?

redsupport
10-19-2006, 08:54 PM
no he is worth something, he is worth an Ed Crosby or maybe a Keith Kessinger

flyer85
10-20-2006, 12:04 AM
I see nothing in Gil's minor league numbers to indicate a chance for success in the majors. His complete lack of plate discipline would be exploted ruthlessly by major league pitchers.

texasdave
10-20-2006, 03:19 PM
I don't, unless Gil's got some crazy bat speed we haven't heard about. Hall's an electric athlete who could get around on Sid Finch's fastball. Gil's numbers scream "slow bat, good power." The kid's shown zero ability to hit for average.

FWIW, a Sporting News article in the Sept 13, 2004 edition states that Gil has a quick bat and it is hard to throw a fastball by him. Any pitch with a wrinkle to it is a different story. Sounds like a Wily Mo Pena-ish trait to me.

SultanOfSwing
10-20-2006, 03:23 PM
FWIW, a Sporting News article in the Sept 13, 2004 edition states that Gil has a quick bat and it is hard to throw a fastball by him. Any pitch with a wrinkle to it is a different story. Sounds like a Wily Mo Pena-ish trait to me.
Thanks very much. :)

EDIT: texasdave do you think you could find a link to that article?

M2
10-20-2006, 03:44 PM
FWIW, a Sporting News article in the Sept 13, 2004 edition states that Gil has a quick bat and it is hard to throw a fastball by him. Any pitch with a wrinkle to it is a different story. Sounds like a Wily Mo Pena-ish trait to me.

Hopefully that's it, though that average still leads me to believe he lacks the elite bat speed of the guys who escape from his particular set of deficits (Hall, Wily Mo, Soriano).

FWIW, here's a mention of Gil from a late 2004/early 2005 chat about D-Backs prospects:

Q: Bruce from Bloomington, MN asks:
Kevin, I was wondering what the D'Backs think of Jerry Gil's development?

A: Kevin Goldstein: Mixed. I got many varying opinions on Gil, but few of them (very few) were good. There's no doubt that he can pick it and throw it with anyone, but the guy just can't hit enough by any measurement. More than one scout wants to see what he can do on the mound.

My take is scouts love bat speed (who doesn't?) and that if Gil had it in spades then you'd hear a chorus of folks insisting the guy will learn to hit. More than likely his hitting tools are viewed as insufficient to overcome his numbers.

Redmachine2003
10-20-2006, 09:14 PM
Hopefully that's it, though that average still leads me to believe he lacks the elite bat speed of the guys who escape from his particular set of deficits (Hall, Wily Mo, Soriano).

FWIW, here's a mention of Gil from a late 2004/early 2005 chat about D-Backs prospects:

Q: Bruce from Bloomington, MN asks:
Kevin, I was wondering what the D'Backs think of Jerry Gil's development?

A: Kevin Goldstein: Mixed. I got many varying opinions on Gil, but few of them (very few) were good. There's no doubt that he can pick it and throw it with anyone, but the guy just can't hit enough by any measurement. More than one scout wants to see what he can do on the mound.

My take is scouts love bat speed (who doesn't?) and that if Gil had it in spades then you'd hear a chorus of folks insisting the guy will learn to hit. More than likely his hitting tools are viewed as insufficient to overcome his numbers.That may have been true then when he did hit for very much power at all. Now that he is hitting for power and his avg and OBP has went up. The view might be changing some.

texasdave
10-20-2006, 11:48 PM
Thanks very much. :)

EDIT: texasdave do you think you could find a link to that article?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_37_228/ai_n6198563

N.L. reports
Sporting News, The, Sept 13, 2004

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ARIZONA DIAMONDBACKS The club has given SS Alex Cintron some starts at second base to get a look at Jerry Gil, 21, at shortstop and to determine whether Cintron is better suited for second.... RHP Brian Bruney gained confidence in his off-speed stuff while at Class AAA Tucson. But after the Diamondbacks called him up late last month, he also displayed a tendency to rush on the mound, causing his front shoulder to fly open and hampering his control. When that happens, he falls behind in the count, and hitters can sit on his mid-90s fastball. SCOUTING REPORT: Gil is sharp defensively, displaying above-average range and a strong arm. He is improving at the plate but still tends to be fooled by breaking balls. He has a quick bat, though, and it's hard to throw a fastball by him.--Steve Gilbert

Slyder
10-21-2006, 02:56 AM
I'm still wondering. If you can get a guy like Jerry Gil for something as neglible as Abe Woody, why would you ever have felt the need to give Juan Castro a two-year deal? It would seem to me that kids like Gil, with elite defensive talents, would make a great-hands-no-range guy like Castro worth nothing more than a non-roster invite.


A bird in the hard is worth 2 in the bush? Maybe the FO wanted to make sure they had SOMEONE going into FA incase we couldn't find someone. Its always better to have too many than not enough as we learned this year.

My 2 cents: BCS you get another Phillips who explodes on to the scene.

Most likely scenario: Rafeal Belliard with more pop.

TRF
10-21-2006, 09:00 PM
Gil could have been a great pickup. Unlike M2, Gil is a guy I'd start everyday at SS. His scouting report sounds like he is a difference maker in the field. Add in Ryan Freel in CF, and the D up the middle can do a lot for the team era on balls not hit out of the yard.

Except...


Except Krivsky has decimated this offense. Kearns, gone. Felo, gone. Pena, gone. Hatteberg returning to earth.Jr. a shell of what he was (how that truly pains me to type.) Dunn... who knows anymore. As it stands the OF is Freel, Griff and Dunner.

blech. defensively, and the offense has a few ???'s too.

Now if Dunn were at 1B, Freel or Deno in CF or RF, Jr. in LF, then the defense is improved, and IF Dunn and Jr bounce back offensively to 2004 numbers you can hide Gil's bat. Especially considering how much his D would help the pitching staff.

But that would be a heck of a lot easier with Kearns or Pena around.

Fil3232
10-22-2006, 02:39 AM
Pena's offensive absence can hardly be considered a true loss given the fact it got a 230 IP, 3.2 ERA pitcher in return. To lament his loss is wrong. Kearns, on the other hand, can probably produce decent numbers in GAB, but his loss isnt going to cost much in the long run. As Joe Randa, Scott Hatteberg, and Rich Aurillia have proved, cheap offense is a lot easier to come by than good pitching. An outfield of Dunn, JR, and Freel/Deno is not only servicable offensively, but it in the top half of NL OFs.

TRF
10-22-2006, 08:38 PM
oh, i can lament his loss when it was a precursor towards dismantling the offense.now there are holes in the offense at SS, 1B and possiblt 2 OF spots. Arroyo was a huge find, but that he pitched like he did was NOT what was expected of him.

The OF was a system wide source of strength. Now its wait for Jay Bruce. Maybe Votto arrives in 2008.

But ot goes to Krivsky's words. He doesn't like strikeouts. So, Pena, gone. Kearns, gone. FeLo, gone. say what you want about his D, he had a ton more value than what was sent to the Reds, and he was never tried at 2B.

No this team is headed towards being a weak hitting, league average pitching team. That bothers the crap out of me.