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View Full Version : Macha Fired in Oakland.....again



Joseph
10-16-2006, 05:12 PM
Per ESPN.

How about that?

vaticanplum
10-16-2006, 05:13 PM
Whoa. Maybe I've been out of the loop but I really didn't see that coming.

Strikes Out Looking
10-16-2006, 05:14 PM
and yet Narron still stays.

Matt700wlw
10-16-2006, 05:17 PM
and yet Narron still stays.

I think it was more on how he ran the clubhouse and his relationship with players and management than it was on how their season went...

Reds Fanatic
10-16-2006, 05:18 PM
Wow. That came out of nowhere. I had not even heard a rumor that he was in danger out losing his job.

Joseph
10-16-2006, 05:18 PM
and yet Narron still stays.

All about expectations. We weren't expected to contend or be even close to 500, the A's were expected to do alot, and the GM and owners felt they didn't do as much as they should.

Macha might look good in Red.

KronoRed
10-16-2006, 05:20 PM
Macha might look good in Red.

Red Sox? ;)

Reds4Life
10-16-2006, 05:21 PM
Go to the ALCS, get fired! Unreal.

dabvu2498
10-16-2006, 05:22 PM
Red Sox? ;)

There's some red in the Rangers uniforms.

RedFanAlways1966
10-16-2006, 05:23 PM
Go to the ALCS, get fired! Unreal.

Especially when the Yanks (aka George) do not fire Joe Torre for ONLY making it to the ALDS! ;)

mound_patrol
10-16-2006, 05:28 PM
they were talking about it today on coldpizza, but I didn't think anything would be decided this early

Reds4Life
10-16-2006, 05:29 PM
Especially when the Yanks (aka George) do not fire Joe Torre for ONLY making it to the ALDS! ;)

The A's kicked the snot out of the Twins, they just ran into the Tigers at the wrong time. Who ever wins the NLCS is probably going to get steamrolled by Detroit.

If the firing wasn't performance related I would think it would have come earlier in the season.

jmcclain19
10-16-2006, 05:30 PM
A few of the A's blogs out there seem to suggest that Macha had zero communication between himself and his players, and that this was a long time coming.

I would think this is more of a communication breakdown issue rather than a performance related firing.

Reds4Life
10-16-2006, 05:31 PM
I would think this is more of a communication breakdown issue rather than a performance related firing.

If they made it all the way to the ALCS then how important really is communication?

TC81190
10-16-2006, 05:34 PM
If they made it all the way to the ALCS then how important really is communication?

But using that logic can't the A's make it without Macha?


I'd take him though. I'd take anyone available right now over Narron, really.

NJReds
10-16-2006, 05:34 PM
I think the A's job is one of the tougher jobs in baseball. I think the Front Office meddles in the day-to-day baseball stuff.

vaticanplum
10-16-2006, 05:34 PM
If they made it all the way to the ALCS then how important really is communication?

No kidding. If they had communication they probably could have fixed Iraq.

traderumor
10-16-2006, 05:35 PM
At least Sparky had missed the playoffs when he got canned :evil:

mound_patrol
10-16-2006, 05:36 PM
If they made it all the way to the ALCS then how important really is communication?

You can always say they might have won it all had they had someone else in there

lollipopcurve
10-16-2006, 05:37 PM
I would think this is more of a communication breakdown issue rather than a performance related firing.

Oh no, that can't be. Especially in Oakland. He must have submitted a few too many screwed-up lineups.
:fineprint

WVRed
10-16-2006, 05:53 PM
Speculation is that Oakland is going to replace Macha from within, most likely third base coach Ron Washington.

I wouldnt want Macha anywhere near a Cincinnati lineup card, and I am not one of Jerry Narrons biggest supporters. His reputation in Oakland was that he could not communicate with players and he was very predictable in lineups. He benched Eric Chavez while hurt and continued running Antonio Perez out there, even though Chavez was pretty much ready to return. Imagine if Griffey got hurt again.:help:

Here is an article that pretty much summarizes.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2006/10/16/SPGQ4LQ5IA1.DTL

Reds4Life
10-16-2006, 05:54 PM
Article from MSNBC. Sounds like the players didn't like him, but man, hard to argue the results. 368-280 in 4 seasons, (4th best in baseball over that time period) 93 wins this season and a trip to the ALCS.

Seems like Beane didn't get along with him either. I think NJReds might be right about the front office meddling. Perhaps Beane should make himself manager and get it over with, he can't seem to get along with anyone else.


OAKLAND, Calif. - Ken Macha was fired as manager of the Oakland Athletics on Monday, two days after the AL West champions were swept out of the playoffs by Detroit.

Macha had two years left on his contract. The As went 368-280 in his four seasons as manager, but have frustrated management and their fans by failing to get into the World Series.

Oakland won the West with a 93-69 record this year. After sweeping Minnesota in three games in the first round of the playoffs, the As were eliminated by Detroit in four straight in the AL championship series.

Macha, 56, angered some veteran players and others who had been injured, the San Francisco Chronicle reported. There also reportedly was tension between Macha and general manager Billy Beane.

After the 2005 season, Macha left the team after three seasons as its manager after he and Beane could not agree on the terms of a new contract, the Chronicle reported. But after a brief time apart, the two parties talked again and he signed back on to manage the team.

When reached by the Chronicle on Sunday evening, Beane would not comment on Macha's future other than to say, "The end of the year is the time for evaluation, not only players, but staff as well. It's a matter of routine this time of year."

Macha has had issues with players in the past, the Chronicle reported, including outfielders Terrence Long, Adam Piatt and Chris Singleton, as well as former batting coach Thad Bosley and former pitching coach Rick Peterson. This year, Macha had differences of opinion with outfielders Jay Payton and Mark Kotsay and reliever Scott Sauerbeck, the Chronicle reported.

Toward the end of the season, one member of the starting lineup was openly critical of Macha in the clubhouse, the Chronicle reported. By the final weekend of the regular season, another prominent member of the team had joined in the criticism, the Chronicle reported. Several players went so far as to take their complaints to Beane, telling him they did not want to return to the club if Macha remained as manager, according to sources.

On Sunday, when the A's returned to Oakland from Detroit, backup catcher Adam Melhuse joined the list of disgruntled players, telling the Chronicle, "For the last two years, our relationship has deteriorated to nothing. He didn't even speak to me for well over the last month. For me, as a backup, all I want is communication. Every other coach, I get along with great, but with Macha, it is not an exaggeration to say he doesn't speak to me not 'Hi,' not anything.

"It's tough to go to work every day knowing you're working for someone who doesn't think much of you as a player and on top of that, doesn't even acknowledge you."

Macha has upset several players over the course of the season with his reaction to injuries, the Chronicle reported.

When Joe Kennedy and Rich Harden were on the disabled list, he referred to them as "non-entities," the Chronicle reported. Asked if he was concerned about Bobby Crosby's back injury affecting the shortstop's future, Macha told the Chronicle that he hoped Crosby is back next year and can play 150 games, "but if he can't, someone else will." And he raised eyebrows when asked how he felt about Mark Ellis' broken finger, which knocked the second baseman out of the playoffs, especially considering Ellis' tough injury history.

"It's part of the game," Macha told the Chronicle. "A lot of people get hurt."

Macha questioned Kotsay's inability to play in a road game against Tampa Bay the day after a day off, calling it "puzzling" two days after Kotsay admitted that it took "duct tape" simply to get him on the field with his balky back, the Chronicle reported.

There had been some thought within the organization that Macha might not be fired that he might choose to resign, instead, the Chronicle reported. He was not comfortable working under Beane and some of his close friends have worried about how unhappy he seemed in his job, despite the success of the club.

Macha, 56, served as Art Howe's bench coach with the A's for four years before becoming the manager in 2003. His 368-280 record over the past four seasons is the fourth-best mark in baseball in that span, and his .568 winnings percentage is the second-best in franchise history behind Dick Williams' .603.

There was $2.025 million remaining on Macha's contract.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Johnny Footstool
10-16-2006, 05:58 PM
During the ALCS, the announcers said that Macha told them he had spoken to Frank Thomas "once or twice" and said hello to him "on occasion", but didn't really feel like it was his place to give The Big Hurt any advice. <shrug>

KronoRed
10-16-2006, 06:01 PM
Little communication and a division title

Lots of communication and a sub .500 record

I'd go with the first one.

westofyou
10-16-2006, 06:02 PM
During the ALCS, the announcers said that Macha told them he had spoken to Frank Thomas "once or twice" and said hello to him "on occasion", but didn't really feel like it was his place to give The Big Hurt any advice. <shrug>

Earl Weaver said the same thing about Frank Robinson.

flyer85
10-16-2006, 06:17 PM
I think this is simply a case where Beane just isn't comfortable with his manager and there really isn't much else to it. The fact that he let Macha walk last year before changing his mind speaks volumes to me.

You would think Macha will land on his feet somewhere else.

traderumor
10-16-2006, 06:17 PM
A few of the A's blogs out there seem to suggest that Macha had zero communication between himself and his players, and that this was a long time coming.

I would think this is more of a communication breakdown issue rather than a performance related firing.Now I have Led Zeppelin going through my head...

Krusty
10-16-2006, 07:21 PM
Just speculating but I don't think Beane was really comfortable with Macha as the manager despite re-signing him.

jmcclain19
10-16-2006, 08:15 PM
I think the A's job is one of the tougher jobs in baseball. I think the Front Office meddles in the day-to-day baseball stuff.

Think of it this way.

Beane the is President and CEO of a company.

Over the years, he's been able to instill an organizational philosophy, from top to bottom with every employee, about how he wants his business run.

However, one middle manager in his Ops division keeps going against that philosophy because he 'feels' he knows better. You get rid of him, and his replacement shows the exact same behavior.

As the company CEO - Do you stay out of the Ops Division and not worry about it? Or do you keep cycling thru until you find a middle manager in that spot who keeps with the company line, from top to bottom?

westofyou
10-16-2006, 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
I think the A's job is one of the tougher jobs in baseball. I think the Front Office meddles in the day-to-day baseball stuff.

This is nothing new, Al Lopez quit the Indians in the Mid 50's because GM Hank Greenberg wanted an open door policy for all aspects of running the team. Lopez felt the dugout and field belonged to him, so he quit and took his act to the White Sox.

MrCinatit
10-16-2006, 08:30 PM
Wow - I hate to think what they would do to him if the A's had been eliminated in the first round.
RE: Communication: Didn't EdE say Narron never said a word to him when he received bench time after commiting an error? If so, cannot say it was any better here.

Ltlabner
10-16-2006, 08:39 PM
Wow - I hate to think what they would do to him if the A's had been eliminated in the first round.
RE: Communication: Didn't EdE say Narron never said a word to him when he received bench time after commiting an error? If so, cannot say it was any better here.

Rick White made some noise after he was sent packing about "communication" issues. Chamblis also said he was never told about a new approach or that management wanted a new approach. Kind loose ends but put together you do start to wonder.

goreds2
10-16-2006, 09:10 PM
I am not sure about hiring Macha but the Reds need a leader in a manager NOT A FRIEND TO THE PLAYERS.

The one thing that has impressed me about Jimmy Leyland is that before game 3 of the series against the Yankees, they showed him hitting ground balls to the players. He makes them work hard but shows he is willing to work also.

I loved his quote during the last month of the season when asked if he is panicking. He said, "I would panic if my kid was failing math". CLASSIC

That is a leader.

IslandRed
10-16-2006, 09:31 PM
I feel bad for Macha. But in my view, in any professional sport, managing the people in the clubhouse/locker room is as important, if not more so, than the strategic stuff. By definition, a manager who's lost the clubhouse isn't doing his job. If that's where it's heading with the A's and Macha then a change is better done now than later.

George Foster
10-16-2006, 09:32 PM
I think the A's job is one of the tougher jobs in baseball. I think the Front Office meddles in the day-to-day baseball stuff.

Let them meddle...they know what they are doing. As a GM you are responsible for wins and losses as well. To have the responsibility, and have absolutely no say is pretty tough.

The GM should not make game decisions but he has a right to ask after the game way did you do X, Y or Z. That is not meddling IMO.

MWM
10-16-2006, 09:33 PM
Wow. That came out of nowhere. I had not even heard a rumor that he was in danger out losing his job.

The mark of a good organization.

George Foster
10-16-2006, 09:39 PM
The mark of a good organization.

Beane is the best....period. He runs a tight ship. I envy their organization.

RANDY IN INDY
10-16-2006, 10:20 PM
And still 0 for the playoffs.

Joseph
10-16-2006, 10:28 PM
And still 0 for the playoffs.

Wouldn't you rather the Reds were 0 for the playoffs, but still in the playoffs over the last 5 years rather than having losing seasons?

MWM
10-16-2006, 10:39 PM
Most GMs are 0 for the playoffs, or 0 for getting to the playoffs.

I find it a bit amusing how much it hurts some people to admit that Beane is a good GM simply because he's fresh and innovative and doesn't bow to the old book of baseball truisms. He's not without fault and has made plenty of bad moves in his day (he'd tell you that himself), but he constantly refines his approach and gets better at the art of GM'ing a major league franchise. A team that hasn't won fewer than 87 games in 8 years when they hadn't won more than 78 in the previous 6. So they grasp onto things like "0 for the playoffs." It's really a silly argument at the text book definition of "grasping at straws". Whether you like him or not, you have to admit he's a great GM. Saying otherwise is more an indictment on the person saying it than him.

NJReds
10-17-2006, 10:37 AM
I find it a bit amusing how much it hurts some people to admit that Beane is a good GM simply because he's fresh and innovative and doesn't bow to the old book of baseball truisms.

Who said he wasn't a good GM? If he hates his managers, he should fire them and bring in someone he likes. If he wants a 'yes' man, I'm sure he can find one. He apparently loved Macha when he fired/released Howe.

I realize that if you question Beane in any way, it amounts to blanket hate and not admitting that he's the smartest guy in baseball. But Macha's had a lot of success as the A's manager. It will be interesting to see who's next.

It's interesting that so many people want Narron canned as Reds manager, but the A's win despite the manager because of the GM is able to overcome any shortcomings that his field manager might have.

Johnny Footstool
10-17-2006, 10:41 AM
And still 0 for the playoffs.

Sorry, but the A's broke their curse and won a playoff series this season.

KronoRed
10-17-2006, 05:48 PM
And still 0 for the playoffs.
Using the same logic so are the Twins

MWM
10-17-2006, 08:51 PM
Who said he wasn't a good GM?

There have been plenty of people here who have intimated he's not good. "0 for the playoffs" is just one example.



I realize that if you question Beane in any way, it amounts to blanket hate and not admitting that he's the smartest guy in baseball.

Now that's just silly hyperbole and you know it. The guy has made plenty of mistakes and most people who admire the guy will admit it. That some people worship Beane and think he's infallable is pure myth. He's very good at what he does and has taken an approach different than anyone else was willing take. He challenges everything including the longest standing baseball assumptions. That's where my admiration comes from. As a student of business, I admire the same type of business leaders....the ones who come in and throw convention to the wind and take a fresh approach to change. But I know he's made plenty of mistakes and I don't always agree with his ideologies. But I admire him as do many others. But I also admire John Schuerholz and Walk Jocketty (although I thought he was nuts for the Mulder trade).

Yet we still have to listen to crap like "if you don't think Beane is god....." You're above that stuff. No one thinks that and you know it.

cincinnati chili
10-17-2006, 10:28 PM
I saw a quote from Adam Melhuse saying that Macha wouldn't respond when players said "hello."

If true, Even Earl Weaver who Don Baylor once said "treated everybody equally.... like crap" would acknowledge his backup catcher with a hello.

One could argue that Beane should forgive this kind of surliness by the manager. But considering the A's have a reputation for underpaying their players, Beane probably figured it wasn't good for moral to have middle-management giving the rank and file the cold shoulder.

Cedric
10-18-2006, 12:34 AM
I saw a quote from Adam Melhuse saying that Macha wouldn't respond when players said "hello."

If true, Even Earl Weaver who Don Baylor once said "treated everybody equally.... like crap" would acknowledge his backup catcher with a hello.

One could argue that Beane should forgive this kind of surliness by the manager. But considering the A's have a reputation for underpaying their players, Beane probably figured it wasn't good for moral to have middle-management giving the rank and file the cold shoulder.

It's just stupid. Why not take the time to say hello? It's the most obvious sign of a bad leader.