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View Full Version : Wilson, Weaver and Belliard



redsupport
10-17-2006, 11:08 PM
that should keep krivskys ego in place, look at what the cards purchases yielded versus what our flotsam, jetsam, chaff, dross and debris produced.

Joseph
10-17-2006, 11:42 PM
Ross and Phillips were DFA acquisitions that were every bit as productive as those are for the Cards, he just got them early rather than late.

SeeinRed
10-17-2006, 11:44 PM
Ross and Phillips were DFA acquisitions that were every bit as productive as those are for the Cards, he just got them early rather than late.

Don't forget the Arroyo trade. Definately a productive trade for the Reds.

Topcat
10-17-2006, 11:49 PM
Don't forget the Arroyo trade. Definately a productive trade for the Reds.


Yes but that wouldn't jive with the authors intent;)

Kc61
10-17-2006, 11:54 PM
More impressive to me is how the Cards have rebuilt their bullpen. Kinney, Flores, Wainright. Wish Reds had em.

Will M
10-17-2006, 11:57 PM
Wilson's #s for the Cards:
.243 avg, 27Ks in 111 ABs, 8 HR

Belliard's #s for the Cards:
.237 avg, 5 HR in 194 ABs

Weaver's #s for the Cards:
5.2 ERA, 1.5 whip

wow , lets sign em up for 2007

redsupport
10-18-2006, 12:08 AM
no lets sign Majewski, Cormier and Franklin thats the answer

SultanOfSwing
10-18-2006, 09:16 AM
that should keep krivskys ego in place, look at what the cards purchases yielded versus what our flotsam, jetsam, chaff, dross and debris produced.
Are you really serious? 3 months ago I'm sure you were singing the praises of Belliard and Wilson and Weaver. I bet you were dying to get them. I will give you that Weaver has looked good in the postseason (contract year, anyone?), but his regular season was terrible. I would rather have Lohse any day.

Don't even talk about Belliard and Wilson. Those .200 BA are sooo attractive. I mean why didn't we pick them up? Who wouldn't want to sit Phillips so we can play Belliard? His defense is awesome! And Wilson could strike out 200 times for the Reds and not hit 40 homers! Great!

Are you really so nieve as to judge players on the fact that they got a base hit (1 out of 5, great!) yesterday? Or are you just trying to stir up the pot? Either way you really need to grow up and learn grammar.

I just wasted 40 seconds of my life....

princeton
10-18-2006, 09:22 AM
3 months ago I'm sure you were singing the praises of Belliard and Wilson and Weaver.....


I was calling for Belliard three months ago, with Philips going to SS. It wouldn't surprise if we did make an offer.

MississippiRed
10-18-2006, 09:34 AM
I was calling for Belliard three months ago, with Philips going to SS. It wouldn't surprise if we did make an offer.

I was saying the same thing to my son the other night during the game, when Belliard went to the other side of second base to make a play (and throw out a fast runner, if I remember corrrectly). I would take him.

About Krivsky, the Cardinals' postseason run is exactly the reason why a team should do everything it can when they feel they have a good chance of making the postseason (I know this was arguable this year). If only one more of Krivsky's moves had worked out better, we could be in the Cardinals' position right now. (Almost) nobody gave them a chance to get to the World Series but they are staring it in the face today. Jeff Weaver - who'd a thunk it?

registerthis
10-18-2006, 09:38 AM
I think we were just looking for an excuse to use the words "flotsam, jetsam, chaff, dross and debris" in the same sentence. Success!!

Roy Tucker
10-18-2006, 10:52 AM
If the Reds had gotten Jeff Weaver, I don't think they would have gotten the same late season results.

Dave Duncan wove some mojo around him and remade him as a pitcher. I don't think Tom Hume would have done the same.

redsupport
10-18-2006, 10:54 AM
Thats the cogent point. When have the Reds pitching brass remade anyone since Pete Schourek

CySeymour
10-18-2006, 11:05 AM
Thats the cogent point. When have the Reds pitching brass remade anyone since Pete Schourek

You could put Pete Harnish in that catagory

redsupport
10-18-2006, 11:06 AM
The Reds had every chance to sign Weaver they went with Chris Michaluk, Jason Johnson, Soo Woo KIm(whatever) and of course Joe Mays

SultanOfSwing
10-18-2006, 11:10 AM
The Reds had every chance to sign Weaver they went with Chris Michaluk, Jason Johnson, Soo Woo KIm(whatever) and of course Joe Mays
And Kyle Loshe. That one was better.

NJReds
10-18-2006, 11:28 AM
If the Reds had gotten Jeff Weaver, I don't think they would have gotten the same late season results.

Dave Duncan wove some mojo around him and remade him as a pitcher. I don't think Tom Hume would have done the same.


Also, in watching last night's game I saw three occasions where the Cards defense came through for Weaver where the Reds 'd' would've let him down. And the knock on Weaver (at least when he was in NY) was that he became unraveled when the defense let him down, or the umpire was squeezing him.

1 - First inning w/Reyes on first, no outs. LoDuca hits one in the hole that Eckstein makes a diving stop on and gets the force at second. With the Reds defense it's first and third, no outs.

2 - Sixth inning, one out...Green blisters one down the line that Pujols snares and tosses to Weaver for the second out of the inning. With the Reds, tying run is on second w/ one out.

3 - And even though Weaver's not in at this point...top 8th, Mets down 4-2 w/runners on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out. Green hits a shallow fly to center that Edmonds catches at waist level. No way Jr. gets to that. W/ the Reds it's first and third, run in, one out.

That's just off the top of my head. With the exception of Freel and BP, our defense rarely helps out our pitching staff. That spells doom for a guy like Weaver.

redsupport
10-18-2006, 11:46 AM
good point with griffey its an automatic hit

pedro
10-18-2006, 12:14 PM
I like Belliard and do believe that Dave Duncan may end up being able to fix Jeff Weaver, but I can't buy into Preston Wilson being a good pickup. As crappy as the cards OF was this year they're really lucky that Chris Duncan went all nuts otherwise they would have never have made the playoffs.

NJReds
10-18-2006, 12:17 PM
I like Belliard and do believe that Dave Duncan may end up being able to fix Jeff Weaver, but I can't buy into Preston Wilson being a good pickup. As crappy as the cards OF was this year they're really lucky that Chris Duncan went all nuts otherwise they would have never have made the playoffs.

And he bats Wilson second. Go figure.

Rex Argos
10-18-2006, 12:23 PM
Where would Preston Wilson fit into this equation? RF? I don't see how that would have improved this team. It just proves that once the playoffs start, anything can happen.

Chip R
10-18-2006, 12:30 PM
The Reds had every chance to sign Weaver they went with Chris Michaluk, Jason Johnson, Soo Woo KIm(whatever) and of course Joe Mays

And if the Reds had signed him, he'd be right there on that list with Mays, Johnson, Kim, etc.

redsupport
10-18-2006, 12:33 PM
probably, its the fielding and pitching coaching that are the key independent variables

Hubba
10-18-2006, 01:05 PM
probably, its the fielding and pitching coaching that are the key independent variablesNo offence but you need to change your name there MR redsupport.:)

redsupport
10-18-2006, 01:29 PM
support means showing veracity

OldXOhio
10-18-2006, 01:52 PM
It just proves that once the playoffs start, anything can happen.

Albert Pujols happens too. That alone would give any dog a fighting chance.

Chip R
10-18-2006, 02:00 PM
probably, its the fielding and pitching coaching that are the key independent variables


Indeed. To take this off on somewhat of a tangent, Greg Maddux was available at the deadline. Up until he was traded, he was very inconsistant with the Cubs. He goes to L.A. and he's the Maddux of old for the most part. If the Reds had traded for him which Maddux would have shown up, the one who almost no-hit the Reds or the one who got knocked around the park with the Cubs?

Highlifeman21
10-18-2006, 03:47 PM
Indeed. To take this off on somewhat of a tangent, Greg Maddux was available at the deadline. Up until he was traded, he was very inconsistant with the Cubs. He goes to L.A. and he's the Maddux of old for the most part. If the Reds had traded for him which Maddux would have shown up, the one who almost no-hit the Reds or the one who got knocked around the park with the Cubs?


That's a great point.

Maddux getting away from Dusty Baker netted better results.

The Reds without Jerry Narron should show a similar trend.

Managers do make a difference, especially bad ones.

Matt700wlw
10-18-2006, 03:49 PM
More impressive to me is how the Cards have rebuilt their bullpen. Kinney, Flores, Wainright. Wish Reds had em.

And if they had, people would have been screaming that they picked up other people's junk :D

Patrick Bateman
10-18-2006, 08:38 PM
Weaver has a 5.18 ERA this season with the Cards, 5.75 DIPS.

He stinks, and has for some time.

Don't let a few 5 inning BABIP lucky starts declare him a CY Young Award winner. He still doesn't K anyone and gives up walks. The HR's will come, they always do.

Stay far away from Weaver, unless you are carrying a bat.