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View Full Version : TRADE David Ross.



TC81190
10-19-2006, 02:07 PM
Would you do it?

I would. Catchers are hard to come by, and teams would undoubtedly be interested if Ross was made available. But, I'm definitely not sold on the fact that Ross can repeat it, and you might not be either if you read WOY's thread. Now maybe Ross is a late bloomer, but history seems to disagree.

And I'm still not sold on the fact that LaRue is done. A man does not go from putting up his best year one season to being finished the next. And his 100+ IsoD is very interesting, IMO, and if he bats even 250, I think he might be able to OBP 380-400 and SLG 440, which I'd be thrilled with.

And again, we might get some good parts. I'd target Florida.

They are STACKED with pitching, and Ross is cheap, and they need a catcher. I'm not sure who'd they be willing to part with, I'd ask about Vargas or Resop, although tha might be asking a bit much. Maybe the Reds might also be able to victimize a dumber GM, maybe a Omar Minaya type who'd trade his Scott Kazmir for our whoever that guy was.

But, what do you think?

redsfan30
10-19-2006, 02:09 PM
There isn't anybody in the entire organization that I would not trade if the right deal came along.

redsmetz
10-19-2006, 02:24 PM
Yeah, I'm not fan of Jason LaRue, but I'm not adverse to trading Ross - one will have to go; we can't have the three headed monster another season - and that, IMO, was an aberation to various things; LaRue's injury, contract and subsequent ineptitude at the plate, but I think he can still hit.

Highlifeman21
10-19-2006, 02:43 PM
Would you do it?

I would. Catchers are hard to come by, and teams would undoubtedly be interested if Ross was made available. But, I'm definitely not sold on the fact that Ross can repeat it, and you might not be either if you read WOY's thread. Now maybe Ross is a late bloomer, but history seems to disagree.

And I'm still not sold on the fact that LaRue is done. A man does not go from putting up his best year one season to being finished the next. And his 100+ IsoD is very interesting, IMO, and if he bats even 250, I think he might be able to OBP 380-400 and SLG 440, which I'd be thrilled with.

And again, we might get some good parts. I'd target Florida.

They are STACKED with pitching, and Ross is cheap, and they need a catcher. I'm not sure who'd they be willing to part with, I'd ask about Vargas or Resop, although tha might be asking a bit much. Maybe the Reds might also be able to victimize a dumber GM, maybe a Omar Minaya type who'd trade his Scott Kazmir for our whoever that guy was.

But, what do you think?


There's no way Jason LaRue puts up an OPS between .820 and .840, with an OBP in the .380 to .400 range. No way at all. With a career OBP of .325, and having put up a career high of .355 in his career year of 2005, .380 to .400 is the pipe dream of all pipe dreams.

LaRue has a semi respectable career OPS of .740, which is what I would expect from him on an average year. He was .663 last year in a down year. At age 32, I wouldn't expect his OBP and OPS to hurdle his career norm/average.

But hey, stranger things have happened.

Ga_Red
10-19-2006, 02:48 PM
02/08/07

registerthis
10-19-2006, 02:52 PM
TMA.

(Too many abbreviations)

osuceltic
10-19-2006, 02:53 PM
If the ratio of innings played to hrs stayed constant.
which catcher would have led the majors in hrs?
and for ip to rsbi?
and for Salary $ to hrs?
and for Salary $ to rsbi?

imo AH, BA, HB, EE, DR and BP are the ltc core to build on.
Trade any of the rest to do it.

Completely agree on your core. Those are the guys I'd build around also.

Wheelhouse
10-19-2006, 03:24 PM
What makes you think he won't repeat it? I might question him if he was an AL guy and the pitchers over here didn't know him, but his been in the NL his whole career. They've scouted him. Is it so horrible to think that a player who has not yet reached 30 may have had his game improve? Why not find a way to get rid of Larue's horrific contract, and, as you see it, "roll the dice" with Ross. The downside is probably an average Larue-type year.

Unassisted
10-19-2006, 03:36 PM
He's one of the few members of the team who performed well above average at the plate in '06, playing a position at which the club is well-stocked. You have to trade value to get value back and he would seem to have value. The challenge here is that he's underpaid for his production and to get comparable value would likely mean taking on a higher salary.

M2
10-19-2006, 03:44 PM
Imagine if only the team had foresight to cash in on Javy Lopez's unlikely flourish in 2005. Well, here's that same chance with a different player. Maybe Ross will build on what he did in 2006, but chances are he won't and that he'll slip back to the forgettable player he was before last season. The guy turns 30 in March, he's not a kid you build around.

If you like Dave Ross 2006, my suggestion is that you go find the next one rather than count on Dave Ross 2007 being more of the same.

oneupper
10-19-2006, 03:51 PM
Take LaRue's IsoD with a grain of salt.
It's .097 batting 8th (presumably before the pitcher) and .075 otherwise (about equal ABs in both situations).

RedsManRick
10-19-2006, 03:52 PM
If you can move LaRue for something of value, fine, go ahead. If you can't, move Ross for something of value. Keep in mind that Ross is the worst offensively, and the LaRue suffered through some really bad luck last year, BABIP wise. With normal luck, he would've been pretty much in line with his career norms (actually pushing his career best OBP). If you can flip Ross for a pitching with some talent, I'd do it without thinking twice. Yes, LaRue is overpaid. But just losing his salary doesn't accomplish much if there's talent to be had by trading Ross instead.

Johnny Footstool
10-19-2006, 03:57 PM
Imagine if only the team had foresight to cash in on Javy Lopez's unlikely flourish in 2005. Well, here's that same chance with a different player. Maybe Ross will build on what he did in 2006, but chances are he won't and that he'll slip back to the forgettable player he was before last season. The guy turns 30 in March, he's not kid you build around.

If you like Dave Ross 2006, my suggestion is that you go find the next one rather than count on Dave Ross 2007 being more of the same.

A lot of the Reds' 2006 offense seemed to be lightning in a bottle -- Hatteberg, Aurilia, Ross, and Phillips far exceeded their career norms. The case could be made that Phillips was merely establishing his norms, but the others have been around long enough (in Ross's case, in the minors) to give everyone a pretty good idea what they can do.

I think the Reds would be wise to cash in on some of that overachievement.

RANDY IN INDY
10-19-2006, 05:14 PM
I think David Ross liked Great American Ballpark in 2006. It fits his swing.

gm
10-19-2006, 05:58 PM
Can an arb-eligible player be traded before his team makes a qualifying offer?

(If the answer is yes...sell high)

Mario-Rijo
10-19-2006, 06:26 PM
You can toss #'s around all you want and they can make a compelling argument. But I trust my eyes more and they tell me that Ross is the far better offensive player. He is much better at not only recognizing balls from strikes but he also is better at disciplining himself not to swing at those bad pitches. LaRue on the other hand has the plate discipline of a 5 yr. old. LaRue has good power, Ross has outstanding power. Larue may have slightly better wheels not sure but not a big enough difference to matter much.

Defensively LaRue has one of the best combinations of strongest and most accurate throwing arms that I have ever seen. And he is obviously better at catching the ball on a play at the plate and his athleticism even at his age is well above average. He also appears to have improved somewhat on balls in the dirt, but Ross has the edge there and IMO he calls a better game overall than does LaRue. I believe that Ross can and will improve if asked to on catching that ball better on the play at the plate I mean it's really just a matter of waiting that split second more and with increased focus. And if he does the only thing we lose here with shipping Larue out is that cannon arm, and Ross' arm isn't bad enough to keep Larue for it.

Lastly Ross is 3 yrs. younger and far cheaper not too mention he's Arroyo's personal catcher which might hurt Bronson's #'s if we deal him. So would I trade him? Your damn right I would if I could improve the team enough by doing so, but I would rather take little or nothing at all to deal the Cowboy who's attitude about '06 could bleed over into '07! Besides if you can deal him for nothing and dump that salary you are getting something for him perhaps enough funds to help purchase that #3 starter or SS.

I believe K.C. would take him if we could come up with the right deal.

Krusty
10-19-2006, 06:38 PM
The day Krivsky can't pull the trigger to a deal to improve the club because it would mean losing David Ross is the day he can hand in his resignation.

Raisor
10-19-2006, 07:01 PM
Imagine if only the team had foresight to cash in on Javy Lopez's unlikely flourish in 2005.


I caught M2 in a boo boo!

I rock.

Wrong Javy.

Doofus.

:devil:

:evil:

mth123
10-19-2006, 07:02 PM
Trade whichever of Larue or Ross you can get a good deal for. If you get a good deal for both, trade 'em both. Then sign a cheap Catcher who can help the staff to platoon with Javy.

marcshoe
10-19-2006, 07:27 PM
I caught M2 in a boo boo!

I rock.

Wrong Javy.

Doofus.

:devil:

:evil:

Thank you. My brain was in the process of doing a backflip.


btw, I've been telling people for a while that the Reds should see if Ross has decent value and if he does, trade him. Nice year. It's likely a career year, the Reds have three catchers, and he likely has the most value.

Sell high.

Kc61
10-19-2006, 07:38 PM
What makes you think he won't repeat it? I might question him if he was an AL guy and the pitchers over here didn't know him, but his been in the NL his whole career. They've scouted him. Is it so horrible to think that a player who has not yet reached 30 may have had his game improve? Why not find a way to get rid of Larue's horrific contract, and, as you see it, "roll the dice" with Ross. The downside is probably an average Larue-type year.

I fully agree with this post.

I don't buy into the philosophy that says: when a guy on your team does well, has a "breakout" season, trade him.

Ross obviously responded well to GABP and to increased playing time (due to Larue's injury). And maybe he just improved with experience.

But I wouldn't trade him based on speculation that he will go bad.

I would be amazed if the Reds keep Larue and trade Ross.

M2
10-19-2006, 07:47 PM
I caught M2 in a boo boo!

I rock.

Wrong Javy.

Doofus.

:devil:

:evil:

:runawaycr

M2
10-19-2006, 07:51 PM
I would be amazed if the Reds keep Larue and trade Ross.

I'd be amazed too, but I'd be impressed if they bet on LaRue's multiple solid seasons and cashed in on Ross' one good one.

Kc61
10-19-2006, 09:28 PM
I'd be amazed too, but I'd be impressed if they bet on LaRue's multiple solid seasons and cashed in on Ross' one good one.

Other than 2005, Larue's highest OPS for any year was .765.

The argument for keeping Larue is his defense, which is better than Ross', and his 2005 good season. I just think Larue is not happy with this management team and the time has come for him to play elsewhere.

Cedric
10-20-2006, 12:24 AM
Would you do it?

I would. Catchers are hard to come by, and teams would undoubtedly be interested if Ross was made available. But, I'm definitely not sold on the fact that Ross can repeat it, and you might not be either if you read WOY's thread. Now maybe Ross is a late bloomer, but history seems to disagree.

And I'm still not sold on the fact that LaRue is done. A man does not go from putting up his best year one season to being finished the next. And his 100+ IsoD is very interesting, IMO, and if he bats even 250, I think he might be able to OBP 380-400 and SLG 440, which I'd be thrilled with.

And again, we might get some good parts. I'd target Florida.

They are STACKED with pitching, and Ross is cheap, and they need a catcher. I'm not sure who'd they be willing to part with, I'd ask about Vargas or Resop, although tha might be asking a bit much. Maybe the Reds might also be able to victimize a dumber GM, maybe a Omar Minaya type who'd trade his Scott Kazmir for our whoever that guy was.

But, what do you think?

Why would any team give up enough to even warrant trading Ross? I'm pretty sure that most GM's see the same thing most of us see here.

He's not got much value right now. IMO.

I'm not going to speak for others, but I wonder if they really think that Ross has enough value to bring back a player that even warrants the risk of losing another 06 season from David? I'm of the opinion that the bigger risk at this point is getting rid of Ross and not allowing him a chance to repeat 06. I just don't think he would bring in enough to do that.

TC81190
10-20-2006, 01:37 AM
There's no way Jason LaRue puts up an OPS between .820 and .840, with an OBP in the .380 to .400 range. No way at all. With a career OBP of .325, and having put up a career high of .355 in his career year of 2005, .380 to .400 is the pipe dream of all pipe dreams.

LaRue has a semi respectable career OPS of .740, which is what I would expect from him on an average year. He was .663 last year in a down year. At age 32, I wouldn't expect his OBP and OPS to hurdle his career norm/average.

But hey, stranger things have happened.

Yeah....I thought he would've OBP'd like 370-390, if he'd hit 250 this year, though?

GAC
10-20-2006, 09:00 AM
Would you do it?

I would. Catchers are hard to come by

Which is why I wouldn't unless, of course, it was a deal that I couldn't refuse.

dabvu2498
10-20-2006, 09:47 AM
The case could be made that Phillips was merely establishing his norms, but the others have been around long enough (in Ross's case, in the minors) to give everyone a pretty good idea what they can do.

Just for comparison's sake...

Brandon Phillips 3723 career professional ABs.
David Ross 2166 career professional ABs.

Brandon Phillips .757 minor league OPS
David Ross .782 minor league OPS

Brandon Phillips .665 career major league OPS (968 ABs)
David Ross .782 career major league OPS (671 ABs)

Also, since 1999, the most games that Ross has appeared in in any single season is 100 (2002).

I realize that Phillips is 25, Ross 29... but my point is that I'm not sure anyone really knows what Ross can do.

Highlifeman21
10-20-2006, 10:59 AM
Yeah....I thought he would've OBP'd like 370-390, if he'd hit 250 this year, though?


Jason LaRue is not Adam Dunn. Adam Dunn can hit .250 and OBP above .370. Jason LaRue bats .250 and would be lucky to OBP .350.

Jason LaRue doesn't walk nearly enough to OBP anything over .360.

M2
10-20-2006, 11:12 AM
Why would any team give up enough to even warrant trading Ross? I'm pretty sure that most GM's see the same thing most of us see here.

Fair point. Though there seem to be a large number of people here who view his 2006 as the start of something and not a season where he caught some lightning in a bottle.

My take is that if you can land an Aaron Harang circa 2004 type for him, it would be a worthwhile trade. Obviously no one's ponying up a stud prospect or a frontline player for Ross, but he might be able to land you an undervalued kid that you think is due for a breakout in the next year or so. I'm not saying the Reds have to trade Ross, just that it's possible they might be able to mine something in the way of a pitcher for him.

savafan
10-20-2006, 11:12 AM
Which is why I wouldn't unless, of course, it was a deal that I couldn't refuse.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/email/images/godfather.jpg

Do you own a horse?

TOBTTReds
10-20-2006, 11:15 AM
Other than 2005, Larue's highest OPS for any year was .765.

The argument for keeping Larue is his defense, which is better than Ross', and his 2005 good season. I just think Larue is not happy with this management team and the time has come for him to play elsewhere.

His defensive advantage is NOT worth his offensive shortcoming compared to a "down" year (if ross had one next year) for Ross. Personally I think we have 3 poor defensive catchers.

In response to the "Why can't he do this again?" question:
The main reason why people feel like Ross won't repeat is because catchers tend to decrease in productivity around 30-31 years old. But of course, Ross hasn't played as many games as most catchers do that start to decrease like that. Maybe he still has a 26 year old catchers body bc of the lack of wear and tear.

I personally would look to deal him for a pitcher. Although Miguel Perez might not be the best hitting catcher, I look forward to his days behind the plate. He is a Molina with a different name.

RANDY IN INDY
10-20-2006, 11:40 AM
Personally I think we have 3 poor defensive catchers.

Personally, I would agree with you.

Matt700wlw
10-20-2006, 12:17 PM
I'd do it...but I doubt he was brought in here to be traded...

TOBTTReds
10-20-2006, 12:48 PM
I'd do it...but I doubt he was brought in here to be traded...

True, but I doubt he was brought in here with the expectations to hit the way he did.

Matt700wlw
10-20-2006, 01:05 PM
True, but I doubt he was brought in here with the expectations to hit the way he did.

Probably true as well...