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cumberlandreds
10-20-2006, 08:59 AM
Who do you think will win the Fall Classic? I hope it does go seven games and every game is close and tight. Baseball could use this. But I'm afraid the Tigers pitching is too much for the Cards to overcome. Tigers in five.

scounts22
10-20-2006, 09:14 AM
I hope the Tigers annihilate the Cardinals.

redsmetz
10-20-2006, 09:28 AM
I think the Cards can win it, but I think ultimately, pitching beats all and it goes to the Tigers in six.

BuckWoody
10-20-2006, 09:38 AM
The fan in me wants to see 7 one-run games with the last one going 11 innings but I'm thinking Tigers in five, maybe six.

I'm conflicted as to which team to pull for. I'm not fond of the Cardinals but they are representing the National League and the Central. That gets me all ready to pull for the Tigers then they show a crowd shot in Commerica and I see a couple of Meeeeeechigan shirts and I have a hard time wishing happiness upon "those people". :evil:

mbgrayson
10-20-2006, 10:18 AM
The question should be clarified: Is it who we WANT to win, or who we think WILL actually win?

In my case, either way, I think the Tigers have a huge edge. They have a weeks rest, and can set their rotation up the way they want. Suppan and Carpenter probably won't pitch till the Series goes to St. Louis. THe Tigers have four strong starters...Tigers in 5.

Heath
10-20-2006, 10:34 AM
Heart - Tigers in a sweep. Sorry, I don't see why St. Louis should be there longer than 4.

Head - Tigers in 6. Suppan and Carpenter bottle up the Tigers offense for the Cards wins.

SultanOfSwing
10-20-2006, 11:22 AM
Here's to a complete and utter desolation of the Deadbirds. Tigers in 4 and outscoring the Cards 31-0. (And for Pujols to go 0-for-whatever).

:beerme:

oneupper
10-20-2006, 11:34 AM
Cards will win. No one will know how they did it, just like no one knew how they beat the Mets.

M2
10-20-2006, 12:02 PM
DH league vs. non-DH league?

My "home" league vs. that other league?

Not a real hard choice for me. Go Birds.

westofyou
10-20-2006, 12:06 PM
DH league vs. non-DH league?

My "home" league vs. that other league?

Not a real hard choice for me. Go Birds.

OTOH

My First Love Vs the manager that has plagued me since the mid 80's.

This is the rubbermatch

34 and 68 might have had more HOF type players, this is a lunchbox series in comparison.

Go Tigers.

flyer85
10-20-2006, 12:07 PM
actually with all their RH pitching, the Cards may not match up that badly.

SultanOfSwing
10-20-2006, 12:11 PM
actually with all their RH pitching, the Cards may not match up that badly.
But with all their LH pitching, the Tigers should dominate.

macro
10-20-2006, 12:14 PM
I mentioned this in another thread, but before we go burying the Birds, don't forget 1990.

Matt700wlw
10-20-2006, 12:23 PM
This Cardinals in the big series is almost as bad as the Steelers last year....


Almost.

Go Tigers...please...for the love of God

Hey Meat
10-20-2006, 01:07 PM
I almost called in sick to work because that game last night made me sick. I hate the Cardinals. Didn't we own them this year? I am sick.

M2
10-20-2006, 01:09 PM
I mentioned this in another thread, but before we go burying the Birds, don't forget 1990.

I'll add that the Cardinals have a "Wild Bunch" feel to them. It's a veteran team with a fair number of guys who might figure this is their last, best shot at winning a championship. They're not quite as long in the tooth as the 2001 D-Backs were, but my guess is a large percentage of that team isn't taking it for granted that they'll be back again.

Given the way the AL has owned the NL this year and that the Cardinals are looking at starters on short rest for the first two games of the World Series, the Tigers should have an easy go of it, but the Cardinals could be built for danger.

WOY, interesting point about HOF talent. Though if any one of these teams has got some, it's the Birds. Pujols you'd have to assume gets in if he can have another four seasons like his first six. Scott Rolen's also well on his way to Cooperstown. Jim Edmonds presents an interesting case as well. He's every bit as good as Earl Averill or Kirby Puckett and way better than Chick Hafey. Chris Carpenter might be a two-time Cy Young winner in another few weeks.

Justin Verlander, a rookie, is really the only guy on the Tigers who can aspire to immortality, though Curtis Granderson should have a nice career. Jeremy Bonderman could have a Brad Pennyish career, possibly better though I've always been suspect about how well his arm is going to hold up over time.

Anyway, I wonder if when historians look back on this series in 50 years whether they see a Tigers team that played better this year in a stronger league or a Cardinals team that had an advantage thanks to a collection of guys who had better careers.

Reds4Life
10-20-2006, 01:11 PM
Tigers in 5, tops. I wouldn't be shocked to see a sweep.

westofyou
10-20-2006, 01:12 PM
Justin Verlander, a rookie, is really the only guy on the Tigers who can aspire to immortality,

Ivan is the Tigers HOF player.

M2
10-20-2006, 01:16 PM
Ivan is the Tigers HOF player.

Doh! Did a mental jog around the field positions and forgot about catcher. Yeah, he's a first ballot shoo-in.

toledodan
10-20-2006, 02:02 PM
if it would have been any other team besides detroit or maybe cleveland i wouldn't be rooting for the cards. after watching all the fans up here jumping on the tiger bandwaggon it got old fast. i've never seen so much new MLB stuff in one place as i do at work. i don't even want to imagine what it will be like if they win it all.

AS FOR THE DIE HARD FANS YOU STUCK BY THEM WHEN THEY LOST 119 GAMES A COUPLE OF SEASONS AGO.

I DO WISH THEM LUCK AND I HOPE THEY ENJOY THE SERIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GIK
10-20-2006, 02:12 PM
Go Tigers. I hope they pitch Rogers Game 2 and the Cards pitch Weaver.

BuckWoody
10-20-2006, 02:14 PM
if it would have been any other team besides detroit or maybe cleveland i wouldn't be rooting for the cards. after watching all the fans up here jumping on the tiger bandwaggon it got old fast. i've never seen so much new MLB stuff in one place as i do at work. i don't even want to imagine what it will be like if they win it all.

AS FOR THE DIE HARD FANS YOU STUCK BY THEM WHEN THEY LOST 119 GAMES A COUPLE OF SEASONS AGO.

I DO WISH THEM LUCK AND I HOPE THEY ENJOY THE SERIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I noticed that this year at the White Sox series. Their fans were generally well behaved and respectful (unlike their southtown neighbors) but there wasn't a one of them there wearing White Sox gear that was over 6 months old.

GIK
10-20-2006, 03:06 PM
Verlander Game 1, Rogers Game 2...
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-worldseries-tigers

bounty37h
10-20-2006, 03:21 PM
I liek the Tigers as they are fun to watch, were my dads fav team, and I was at the final game of the 84 series, and Im not a Cards fan at all, so they are who I would like to win. However, I wouldnt be upset if the Cards win for 2 reasons-one, tired of the dang AL winning it, adn 2, I have an autogrpahed rookie of Pujols, which will hopefully go up in $$ even more if he does well, they win. Other then that, just want to see 7 good baseball games!!!!!!

mbgrayson
10-20-2006, 04:00 PM
Doh! Did a mental jog around the field positions and forgot about catcher. Yeah, he(Ivan Rodriguez) is a first ballot shoo-in.

What about Ivan Rodriguez allegedly using steroids?

Canseco claims to have supplied them to him, and actually injected him, in his book "Juiced". Ivan strongly denies Canseco's claim, but has never sued or taken any legal action against him. Truth is a complete defense to libel. Despite the fact that Canseco is a dirtbag, I don't think there is much proof that he is a lying dirtbag.

Pudge's power numbers peaked shortly after Canseco joined the Rangers with him. Then, in 2005, after testing started, Pudge dropped 22 pounds and his power numbers dropped way off. Look at his career stats HERE (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/rodriiv01.shtml), keeping in mind that in late 1992, Canseco came over from the A's, and in 2005 steroid testing started . (Admittedly, ages 24 to 33 are the biggest power years for many non-steroid players too....)

Also, according to "Game of Shadows" Pudge allegedly routinely received steroids from Victor Conte of BALCO fame. See THIS Sporting News thread (http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/Lester's%20Legends/22230) on Pudge's alleged steroid use.

Color me doubtful of Pudge's claim of non-use of steroids. I wouldn't vote for him for HOF at this point because of steroids, although his stats would otherwise make a great case for inclusion.

M2
10-20-2006, 04:19 PM
What about Ivan Rodriguez allegedly using steroids?

...

Color me doubtful of Pudge's claim of non-use of steroids. I wouldn't vote for him for HOF at this point because of steroids, although his stats would otherwise make a great case for inclusion.

Fair point, my take is Pudge's power totals have little to do with his HOF candidacy. He's still a very good hitter and a durable player (which gets you counting stats). He's still got 11 Gold Gloves. Maybe the juice, if he was on it, bought him a few extra All-Star appearances and that MVP Award. Yet I'd still put him in the HOF without those (and with 50-100 fewer homers). I view him as materially different from a McGwire or Sosa, where (alleged) 'roid usage basically undermines the sole reason to put them into the HOF. Mark McGwire with good, but not great power is a good, but not great ballplayer. Pudge Rodriguez with modest power is still a great ballplayer.

mbgrayson
10-20-2006, 05:09 PM
M2:

Good points...I am unsure whether the steroids, if he used them, would also impact defense. Can he throw down to second better to catch a runner on steroids? Is his reaction time faster? Do the psychological effect of omnipotence make him play better? I don't know. The 'conventional wisdom' is that steroids just build muscle mass. I think there is more to it than that.

I have read about half of "The Juice" by Will Carroll. The science is a little over my head. Carroll states that "activities involving mass and strength would be enhanced short term by the use of anabolic steroids." It is well documented that sprinters, swimmers, weight-lifters, and baseball players all have used steroids. If I recall correctly some of the discussion in other articles I have read hypothesize that reaction time IS effected by steroids. If that is true, it would taint Pudge's defensive numbers as well.

So, looking at the numbers, let's look at 'caught stealing' percentages. From 1991-96, Pudge was throwing out 47% of base stealers. (Which is excellent). Then, in his peak HR years, 1997-2001, he caught 193 out of 345 runners...56%. Then, from 2002-06, his caught stealing percentage has dropped to 41%. (Although this year he improved; back to almost 51%.) There appears to be some correlation between this defensive stat and his HR power years.

Regardless, IF he did use steroids, I don't think you can really seperate offensive from defensive impacts. My questions about the overall impact of his alleged steroid use would still preclude my HOF vote for Pudge.

reds1869
10-20-2006, 05:19 PM
if it would have been any other team besides detroit or maybe cleveland i wouldn't be rooting for the cards. after watching all the fans up here jumping on the tiger bandwaggon it got old fast. i've never seen so much new MLB stuff in one place as i do at work. i don't even want to imagine what it will be like if they win it all.

AS FOR THE DIE HARD FANS YOU STUCK BY THEM WHEN THEY LOST 119 GAMES A COUPLE OF SEASONS AGO.

I DO WISH THEM LUCK AND I HOPE THEY ENJOY THE SERIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then I'm assuming you don't like the new Bengals either? Because there sure are a lot of "life-long fans" that came out of nowhere around here. I personally think it's great when a team gets new fans interested.

As for the Series, I hope Detroit blasts St. Louis out of the water.

camisadelgolf
10-20-2006, 05:32 PM
I picked the Cardinals because it seems like everyone is taking them for granted.

BigREDSfaninKY
10-20-2006, 05:37 PM
Ultimately, I want the Tigers to win it. I have a friend who is a Tiger fan would like to see his team get it, I know he would for me if the Reds were in the series, except against Detroit of course. But, I've picked against the Cards in both rounds so it wouldn't surprise me if they beat Detroit. Go Tigers.

Falls City Beer
10-20-2006, 07:00 PM
Cards will win. No one will know how they did it, just like no one knew how they beat the Mets.

Yep.

RFS62
10-20-2006, 08:00 PM
Tigers all the way.

So many good stories in this matchup. I predict Sean Casey plays a pivotal role, much like his alter ego.


http://ac.aua.am/irina_davtyan/web/lotr/bio/Sam%20bio_files/Sam_RotK_8.jpg

Robb
10-20-2006, 08:04 PM
Tigers in 5. Although I didn't picture St.Louis to have a chance getting this far.

vaticanplum
10-20-2006, 08:06 PM
Heart - Tigers in a sweep. Sorry, I don't see why St. Louis should be there longer than 4.

Head - Tigers in 6. Suppan and Carpenter bottle up the Tigers offense for the Cards wins.

I second all of that. Actually, my head could accept five wins too, but I'll go with six.

Caveat Emperor
10-20-2006, 08:16 PM
I'd love nothing more than a Tigers sweep -- let them win it in St. Louis and have "the best fans in baseball" be forced to sit and watch another team celebrate a World Championship in their ballpark not having had the pleasure of seeing their team win a single game.

That'd be just superb.

OnBaseMachine
10-20-2006, 08:39 PM
Tigers.

Loveable team vs crappy team with arrogant jackarse fans. Easy one for me - Go Tigers!

toledodan
10-21-2006, 02:44 AM
Then I'm assuming you don't like the new Bengals either? Because there sure are a lot of "life-long fans" that came out of nowhere around here. I personally think it's great when a team gets new fans interested.

As for the Series, I hope Detroit blasts St. Louis out of the water.





herd fan:

i grew up in southwest ohio and know what you're talking about. i'm sure there was plenty of bandwagon fans of the bengals to go around last season. i spent many of a cold day in the 90's watching a very bad bengals team lose. i hope the long time season ticket holders enjoyed the success last year. the lion fans up here are stick by there team lose or lose. when cincinnati played up here last year i marched outside of ford field wearing my bengal gear helping the lion fans protest the GM. the fans during the game were real respective towards me and MOST of the bengal fans(there were plenty that made the trip). they were hopeful that the francise could turn around as quick as the bengals did after marvin lewis showed up. getting back to the tigers, if i didn't work with so many fans it would be easier for me to root for them. if detroit does win i will be very happy for one sean casey!

RedsBaron
10-21-2006, 07:38 AM
I'm not real emotionallly involved in this World Series and won't be all that thrilled or depressed as a result of whoever wins it.....but I'm leaning towards rooting for the Cardinals. I was a Redbird fan once, way back in 1964-65, and unlike many posters here, I have nothing against their fans: St. Louis is a terrific baseball town.
My head tells me the Tigers will win it, but my heart wants me to pull for the underdog. I'll go with St. Louis.

Spring~Fields
10-21-2006, 08:02 AM
It will be interesting to see how the Cardinals hitting does against the Tigers pitching and if the Cardinals pitching steps it up for the series. Perhaps we will see a snapshot of how much work the Reds have before them in the future to get to where the Tigers and Cards are too.

I think the Tigers will sweep the Cards or close to it.

cumberlandreds
10-22-2006, 12:12 PM
90% of everyone that participated picked the Tigers. Lot of people are going to be wrong if last night shows anything. Of course you have to remember that the Tigers lost the first game to the Yankees and rebounded quite well after that loss.