PDA

View Full Version : Bengals v. Panthers



WMR
10-22-2006, 11:26 AM
I'm sure there will be plenty to talk about as far as this game is concerned...

hopefully it won't end up as a debate of how much blame to levy on an official when his screw-ups lead up to a Bengals loss b/c we'll all be jubilantly singing the praises of Marvin and his players as they return to their winning ways!

::fingers crossed ... err, make that double-crossed::

WMR
10-22-2006, 11:36 AM
Tab Perry out for year

By GEOFF HOBSON

October 20, 2006

The Bengals lost one of their most valued and versatile players Friday when they put wide receiver Tab Perry on season-ending injured reserve.

Perry, who set the club’s single-season kick return records as a rookie last year, hasn’t played since injuring his hip in the last minute of the 34-17 win over Cleveland in the second game of the season when he returned a pooch kick that rolled to the goal line and stopped.

Perry, who appeared Friday on Cincinnati radio host Lance McAlister's Bengals Rally show, said after the show that he had suffered a partial dislocation of the hip. He said there was a fear that it could be an injury similar to the one that ended Bo Jackson's career on a hit from Bengals linebacker Kevin Walker in the 1990 playoffs.

"But (Jackson) came back too early on it," Perry said. "The Bengals were worried it could be like that if I tried to keep playing. So we figured to take the rest of the season and it will be all right."

Perry expects to be cleared for the first minicamp next spring.

The Bengals used Perry on a variety of plays running and catching out of the backfield and he had been used this season as a third-down replacement for tight end Matt Schobel in a pass-protection role as well as a receiver.

Along with supplying one of the biggest plays of last season with his 94-yard kick return during the 38-31 win in Pittsburgh, Perry finished fourth in both special teams snaps and tackles as a core member. Earlier in the season, special teams coach Darrin Simmons compared the loss of Perry on special teams to the loss of running back Rudi Johnson on offense.

Lewis said Perry should have a typical rehab and be back for next season.

"The hip injury because of the amount of the pressure on the joint it's a little bit more special," Lewis said. "It's different than the shoulder because it's a function he needs. The protocol is much slower than other injuries. The best thing for him and his future is for us not to push this, for him not to push it most importantly, for him to allow it to heal correctly."

Ironically, Friday was also the day the Bengals officially activated the other Perry - running back Chris Perry - from the physically unable to perform list (PUP). With Chris Perry able to split some as a wide receiver and receivers Kelley Washington (hamstring) and Chris Henry (suspension) also on the shelf, it remains to be seen who else the Bengals are going to dress behind Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh and Antonio Chatman.

Rookie receiver Reggie McNeal was the third quarterback last week, but he may not be designated as such this week even though backup quarterback Anthony Wright is out again as he recovers from his appendectomy.

The Bengals filled Tab Perry’s roster spot by signing from the practice squad former Kentucky wide receiver Glenn Holt, a free-agent rookie who had one catch for 11 yards and one kickoff return for 16 yards in three preseason games.

Pro Bowl wide receiver Chad Johnson (shoulder) returned to the early portion of the Bengals’ Friday morning practice. He came into the day listed as probable even though he didn’t work Wednesday and Thursday, and head coach Marvin Lewis said he's ready to play.

WMR
10-22-2006, 11:36 AM
The hits just keep on coming. :(

GAC
10-22-2006, 11:42 AM
Panthers 0-2 minus Steve Smith.... 4-0 since his return.

WMR
10-22-2006, 11:43 AM
from www.bengals.com

BENGALS

VS.

PANTHERS
KEY MATCHUPS
OCTOBER 22, 2006

A former NFL club football executive (The Guru) and a current NFL personnel director (The Chief) break down Sunday’s matchup and after a low whistle following the Bengals injury list, The Guru gives the Bengals a slight edge only because they’re home and The Chief picks the Panthers to win their fifth straight.

The Guru: The Bengals have to get home, steady the ship, and get back on track. To me, this is a coach’s game. The Bengals have to adjust. That’s how good coaches survive injuries. They’re hurt at receiver and on the offensive line and they’re playing a team that has a great pass rush, but you can run the ball on them. Getting Chris Perry back should be able to help them run and that’s what they have to do. Carolina is a better rush team and they’re at home.

The Chief: Carolina has to be laughing right now. If they don’t have the best defensive line, it's one of the best and the Bengals keep shuffling up front. This is a heck of a game to have a rookie left tackle out there and to have receivers banged up. They’re going to have to throw quick. Their secondary is pretty good, too. Their corners are big and physical and their safeties can really run. I think it’s going to be a long day for the home team because of the injuries.”

WHEN THE BENGALS HAVE THE BALL
RT Willie Anderson and LT Andrew Whitworth vs. Panthers DEs Julius Peppers and Mike Rucker

No one really knows what kind of looks the exotic Carolina defense is going to lay on the rookie Whitworth on passing downs. But at least on first and second down, there should an all-World matchup between the three-time Pro Bowler Anderson and Peppers, a two-time Pro Bowler who currently leads the NFL with eight sacks.

The 6-7, 283-pound Peppers gives up about 50 pounds to the 6-5, 335ish-pound Anderson, which means the Bengals are probably going to try and run the ball for a variety of reasons. One of them is to keep away the werewolves who have rung up 139.5 sacks in the last five seasons.

“He’s strong, and got the long arms,” says The Chief. “I don’t care if it is Willie, at some point they’re going to have to give him help over there. I think Rucker is declining a bit in his play (no sacks yet), so I think that matchup is going to be OK for the Bengals.”

But when it gets to passing downs, the Panthers move around and the Bengals are expecting them to try and get Peppers on Whitworth. Making the matchup of his offensive line and defensive line so difficult is that the the Bengals are already strapped at receiver and giving help to the tackles is going to take yet another one out of a route.

“I like Whitworth, I think he’s going to be fine against Rucker,” The Guru said. “Rucker is more of a power guy, and Whitworth is a big kid who has played a lot of football.”

But also figure that tight ends Reggie Kelly and Tony Stewart, and backs Jeremi Johnson, Rudi Johnson and Kenny Watson, have to have a big day giving some help.

C Eric Ghiaciuc vs. Panthers DT Kris Jenkins

Jenkins is just a moose in the middle, but Ghiaciuc's most difficult assignment is going to be to communicate to his guys what to do because the Panthers will line up anywhere at any time with anyone. Earlier this year, another team’s center looked up to see 230-pound linebacker Thomas Davis line up at tackle.

“The thing the Bengals have to do is settle down with this offensive line,” The Guru said. “They’ve got guys who have played those spots. You can run at a guy like Peppers, I think. You can run on them, or you have to try. This is the adjustment I’m talking about.”

RB Chris Perry vs. Panthers CB Chris Gamble

Remember the 2004 draft that had the Bengals picking No. 24 then No. 26 in the first round? Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis tried real hard to like Gamble, even going back to Ohio State one last time a week before the draft to get another look. But with Corey Dillon and no backup for Rudi Johnson in sight, the Bengals took Perry, spurning Gamble basically twice. P>While Perry has been hurt for 21 of his 37 possible games, Gamble has played pretty well. Last year he and Ken Lucas were the only cornerback tandem to each record at least six interceptions.

But the Bengals are pleased that Perry (ankle, knee) is back for the first time this year because of his ability to exploit matchups in the passing game with a linebacker or safety. But he is going to have to be used as a receiver because only three veteran wides are healthy. The 6-2 Gamble goes inside in the slot on passing downs.

“Their corners are big and physical,” The Chief said. “They might get beat at times, but their safeties run, and you know they can because they play seven in the box and they’re still back there in a zone. If you had this defensive front, you would sit there with seven, too and not let anybody get behind you in the passing game. The Bengals are going to have to run the ball against seven men.”

K Shayne Graham vs. Panthers K John Kasay

Watch out for Peppers because he’s blocked five field goals in the past five seasons. Kasay told Graham when he beat him out for the Panthers job in 2003, “It could have gone either way. You’re going to have a good career.”

That day, the Bengals claimed Graham off waivers and the rest is history on both sides of the ball. Graham is currently the second most accurate field-goal kicker of all time, holds most of the Bengals single-season records and is their first Pro Bowl kicker in history.

Meanwhile, in his 16th season, Kasay is still rolling. Last month he became the first kicker in history to kick four field goals from at least 46 yards in a game against Tampa Bay, and two weeks ago became the 25th player to score 1,000 points with the same team.


WHEN THE PANTHERS HAVE THE BALL
CBs Deltha O’Neal, Tory James, Johnathan Joseph vs. WR Steve Smith

The Chief says, “You start by taking away Smith and then holding up everywhere else. When they don’t have Smith, they’re not balanced. That’s how they lost the first two games. What he does is provide a diversion in the secondary because he’s so good.”

The Bengals are intent on stopping the big play, and in the last three games Smith has six catches of at least 20 yards. It has to worry them that last week not only did Smith catch three balls of at least 31 yards, but third wide Drew Carter caught a 42-yard touchdown pass against the usually suffocating Ravens defense.

Smith is only 5-9, but James warns that “he’s strong and physical.” The Bengals figure to do what the offenses are doing to their own Chad Johnson and play it safe to keep the long one away. They also have to be wary of Carter’s speed, but the Panthers don’t often go with three wides. When they do, sometimes Smith goes in the slot, so Rock Hill, S.C., native Jospeh gets to take on Charlotte’s big star.


WR Chad Johnson: vs. Panthers WR Keysahwn Johnson

OK. It’s not a real matchup, but the cousins are going to go a long way in deciding this one. Since Smith returned in the third game of the season, not only is he the NFL’s leading receiver in that stretch with 450 yards, he and Keyshawn are the top receiving duo in the NFL with 53 catches for 723 yards and four TDs over the last four weeks. Chad and T.J. Houshmandzadeh, who also missed the first two games (hand), aren’t in the top six and have 36 catches for 385 yards with three touchdowns.

“Keyshawn is still a good player, but he’s not going to hurt you deep,” The Guru says. “He’ll be a factor underneath, on third down and he’s a strong guy.”

The Bengals had the right idea in Tampa, where the longest completion they allowed was 18 yards. But that was to a rookie QB making his second NFL start. Which brings us to:

DEs Justin Smith, Robert Geathers vs. Panthers RT Jeremy Bridges and LT Jordan Gross

The Panthers have also lost their center (Justin Hartwig) and left tackle (Travelle Wharton), and have had to shuffle. Gross, a dominant right tackle, is just a guy at left. Bridges, cut in training camp, has only been in Carolina since Sept. 12. So you figure Geathers and Smith should make some hay and get pressure on quarterback Jake Delhomme.

Delhomme is a different guy when pressured. He’s also not above gambling and throwing it to the other club, but he’s got a 2-to-1 TD-pick ratio and has thrown one fewer interception than Palmer (three) this season.

CTA513
10-22-2006, 01:41 PM
Brooks gets another start
By GEOFF HOBSON
October 22, 2006

Posted: 11:40 a.m.

Middle linebacker Brian Simmons and strong safety Dexter Jackson were both active for Sunday’s game against the Panthers and were expected to play but weren’t in the starting lineup.

Rookie Ahmad Brooks drew his second straight start in place of Simmons and Kevin Kaesviharn lined up at strong safety for the fourth straight game.

While Simmons sat last Sunday in Tampa with a neck injury, Brooks had 14 tackles in his first NFL start. Also for the third straight game, Landon Johnson started at strong-side linebacker and Caleb Miller on the weak side with Rashad Jeanty (foot) inactive again.

With wide receivers Kelley Washington (hamstring) inactive and Tab Perry on injured reserve, rookie wide receiver Glenn Holt was active after signing off the practice squad, and rookie receiver Reggie McNeal was again listed as the third quarterback.

Running back Chris Perry, just off the physically unable to perform list (PUP), was active for his first game this season and could see plenty of time as a wide receiver.

Peter Schaffer, the agent for wide receiver Tab Perry, applauded the Bengals for taking the cautious route and putting his client on season-ending injured reserve with a partially dislocated hip.

“We think there was a pretty good chance he could have come back late in the year,” Schaffer said. “But the Bengals needed the roster spot and they also felt with that type of injury rest is the best thing for it.”

Schaffer and Perry both believe he’ll be back for the first minicamp in the spring after an offseason of rehab. Perry called it “a subluxation,” where the bone slides out and then back in.

“When that happens,” Perry said, “it messes up things inside your capsule (which contains ligaments). You’ve got things that are loose, things that are bruised. You have to wait for all that to clear out.”

Former Raiders running back Bo Jackson’s career ended with a similar dislocation, but Perry and Schaffer said the Bengals believe it's because he came back too soon and didn’t take the proper time.

“We think that Tab should be back on time next year,” Schaffer said.


http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5607

Playadlc
10-22-2006, 02:01 PM
Bengals 21
Panthers 20

Playadlc
10-22-2006, 02:09 PM
I am getting this feeling that the Bengals might just get on a huge roll today.

Defense looked very active on that first drive.

dsmith421
10-22-2006, 02:25 PM
I love Bob Bratkowski. Seldom can one man waste so much talent. The guy needs to go, and I mean right now.

Joseph
10-22-2006, 02:29 PM
This defense is ugly.

TeamCasey
10-22-2006, 02:34 PM
Complete and utter BS

max venable
10-22-2006, 02:36 PM
Marvin should have kept that red flag in his pocket. He burned a timeout and for what? Even if they reverse the call, it's 4th and goal on the one inch line. They would have punched it in anyway. Not a good decision by ML.

MrCinatit
10-22-2006, 02:40 PM
This offense has become brutally bad.

Joseph
10-22-2006, 02:41 PM
This offensive line has become brutally bad.

I fixed it for you.

max venable
10-22-2006, 03:32 PM
Yeah, it's really not fun to watch the Bengals lately. Funny how we can be SO excited about a team three weeks ago and so discouraged by them right now.

TeamCasey
10-22-2006, 03:33 PM
Toss some updates in. Cartoons just took over my television.

Reds4Life
10-22-2006, 03:41 PM
14-7 Panthers at halftime. The O-line is horrible, not much more to comment on. ;)

GAC
10-22-2006, 03:48 PM
14-7 Panthers at halftime. The O-line is horrible, not much more to comment on. ;)

And that is the key to it all. The O-line is the heart blood of the team IMO.

You can't throw down field because Palmer doesn't have the time.

Playadlc
10-22-2006, 04:05 PM
The O-line is really starting to pick up their play.

Since the first scoring drive, they are really pushing the Panthers around.

Tony Cloninger
10-22-2006, 04:07 PM
I think Brat is the football version of Jerry narron probably.

Seriously though.......with this defense, which is now worse than last year when you take away Pollack and Jackson and a 1 year older and bad knee Tory James.......i think Brat wants to control the clock by pushing the run and he is also just trying to take what the defense gives.

The 1981-82 Bengals were mainly dink and dunk with some okay running but it was the passing game that made them go.
The threw deep better in 1981 than in 1982...but they still controlled the game with their passing.

Having said that....those teams had a good defense.....Top 10 or 5 in run defense in 1982.

I just think some of these OL replacements need to wake up or maybe it's the OL coach, whose days go back before Marvin.

I wish they still had McNally.....he could turn low draft picks into starters and in some cases ...big time linemen.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 04:17 PM
Man, Bengals go from greatness to obscurity in just a matter of weeks. So much for the rebirth of Bengals' football.

Playadlc
10-22-2006, 04:32 PM
Bengals lead 17-14.

8 minutes to go.

TeamCasey
10-22-2006, 04:34 PM
Thank you!

Tony Cloninger
10-22-2006, 04:40 PM
Come on defense....... 3 and out or a TO.

Playadlc
10-22-2006, 04:50 PM
INT in the endzone by Kaesviharn!!!

Bengals ball with 4 minutes to go leading 17-14.

WHO-DEY!?

Playadlc
10-22-2006, 04:52 PM
Palmer is absoultey on fire right now.

15-25 for 182 yards in the 2nd half.

WMR
10-22-2006, 04:52 PM
Rooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooodiiiiiiiii

WMR
10-22-2006, 04:59 PM
C'mon now finish it

WMR
10-22-2006, 04:59 PM
NICE punt

WMR
10-22-2006, 05:00 PM
DELHOMME SACKED!!! Bengals WINNNNNNN!!!

YES!

That's a big one.

Playadlc
10-22-2006, 05:00 PM
Sacked!!!

Game over.

Bengals 17
Panthers 14

KittyDuran
10-22-2006, 05:01 PM
Finished! 17-14 Win!

max venable
10-22-2006, 05:02 PM
WHO FREAKIN' DEY

WMR
10-22-2006, 05:04 PM
Steve Smith is my kind of player. You can tell he's the consummate competitive athlete. I don't understand those guys who can be cutting up with the opponent right after they lose.

Whenever I'd play a sporting event, I could never stand to stay on the field or talk much to the opponent right after a game when my team lost.

WMR
10-22-2006, 05:04 PM
SQUEALERS LOSE.

Wahhhhh, poor Roethlisbooger

max venable
10-22-2006, 05:05 PM
I just switched over to the Steelers game. They're trailing right now 38-31 with 6:00 left. Come on Falcons!

BTW, where is Pittsburgh's D today?

max venable
10-22-2006, 05:12 PM
Pittsburgh just tied the game. Is anybody playing D in the ATL today?

redsfan30
10-22-2006, 05:26 PM
Big win for the Bengals today to get back on the right track. I thought overall the defense played pretty well and got the big play when they really needed it. Carson was on fire in the second half and it was sure nice to see.

The 4th and 1 catch by Chad could be a moment we look back on come January.

max venable
10-22-2006, 05:31 PM
You guys watching this Pittsburgh game? The end of regulation has been CRAZY.

Overtime.

Tony Cloninger
10-22-2006, 05:32 PM
If the defense could play like this....against this offense....then they should be ok for the rest of the year. BUT seeing as they seem to fall flat when you least expect....who the heck knows.

Now hopefully the OL with the same starters for another week....will be even better.


The PITT-ATL is making me crazy.

WHY bring Morten in.....when the other guy clearly has the better freaking leg over 50 yards?

max venable
10-22-2006, 05:35 PM
WHY bring Morten in.....when the other guy clearly has the better freaking leg over 50 yards?

No kidding. Bad decision. Dude already showed he was good from 56.

Dom Heffner
10-22-2006, 05:39 PM
The dude in Tampa today was good from 62. :)

max venable
10-22-2006, 05:51 PM
So...if the zebras don't hand TB that game last week, our beloved Bengals are 5-1 and on top of the division. :rolleyes:

SteelSD
10-22-2006, 05:57 PM
So...if the zebras don't hand TB that game last week, our beloved Bengals are 5-1 and on top of the division. :rolleyes:

Officials?

You mean like the guys who called a phantom Running Into the Kicker penalty on Pitt on the first Atlanta FG miss near the end of the game and then called a phantom False Start on Pitt so Atlanta could avoid having to see Pitt's own last-second Field Goal attempt in regulation?

In any case, good win for the Bengals. Pittsburgh should be collectively embarrassed by how they handed away a game they were dominating today. And the worst part about it was that it followed Michael Vick's whine-fest on "Inside the NFL" about how he isn't appreciated. Amusing considering that he's possibly the most overrated NFL player ever and did a great job confirming that today.

Blimpie
10-22-2006, 06:04 PM
Steve Smith is my kind of player. You can tell he's the consummate competitive athlete. I don't understand those guys who can be cutting up with the opponent right after they lose.

Whenever I'd play a sporting event, I could never stand to stay on the field or talk much to the opponent right after a game when my team lost.I can't believe how intimidated the Bengals secondary appeared when trying to tackle Smith today. Smith looked like a man amongst boys whenever he was slicing through the secondary.

On a side note, Julius Peppers could end up being the best D-Lineman in NFL history. His skills are absolutely immense for somebody his size. It's a wonder the Bengals had any yards rushing today at all.

Dom Heffner
10-22-2006, 06:11 PM
Pittsburgh should be collectively embarrassed by how they handed away a game they were dominating today. And the worst part about it was that it followed Michael Vick's whine-fest on "Inside the NFL" about how he isn't appreciated. Amusing considering that he's possibly the most overrated NFL player ever and did a great job confirming that today.


Steel, I didn't watch the game, so help me out here. How does Vick throw for 232 yards and 4 touchdowns and he confirms how overrated he is?

And how does Pittsburgh dominate somebody when they give up 41 points?

Was the officiating that bad? I'm not being a smart-tail, I just watched the game on stattracker, so I honestly have no idea how things looked.

max venable
10-22-2006, 06:20 PM
Three costly turnovers by Pittsburgh.

GREAT day for me. Bengals win, Steelers lose, Crumpler and Vick are on my fantasy team (huge stats from both today).

As for the calls, the running into the kicker call was legit. The Cowher timeout was VERY questionable.

Yachtzee
10-22-2006, 06:39 PM
1. I think Cowher was tempting fate with that late TO call. It was borderline that he got it in in time, but he got the call. You can't just wait until right when they snap the ball to call your TO or you're going to get burned.

2. Roughing the kicker is a strict liability penalty. You touch the kicker, you get a flag. Don't want a flag? Don't touch the kicker.

3. If you don't want a false start, get set before the snap.

RedFanAlways1966
10-22-2006, 07:27 PM
Man, Bengals go from greatness to obscurity in just a matter of weeks. So much for the rebirth of Bengals' football.

What game did you watch? Was it the CINCINNATI Bengals or some other Bengals team?!? Must have been another team b/c the CINCINNATI team won today.

Premature things (sayings, the thing that causes unexpected pregnancies, etc) can get people in trouble. Oh well... some learn, some don't.

:laugh:

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 07:32 PM
What game did you watch? Was it the CINCINNATI Bengals or some other Bengals team?!? Must have been another team b/c the CINCINNATI team won today.

Premature things (sayings, the thing that causes unexpected pregnancies, etc) can get people in trouble. Oh well... some learn, some don't.

:laugh:

They can still salvage the season obviously, but I've seen few ass-kickings like the one laid on the Bengals by New England. That was one of the worst home losses by a supposed contender that I've seen in my life. Add a loss to the doormat Bucs the following week, then a squeaker this week against a so-so Carolina squad, and if you aren't doubting them, you should be.

I guess a lot depends on health.

RedFanAlways1966
10-22-2006, 07:35 PM
Just giving you a hard time for the comment that must have been made around halftime! I too was starting to doubt it all at that point.

They did a 180 in the 2nd half. Offense and defense. Surprising and refreshing.

:)

SteelSD
10-22-2006, 07:46 PM
Steel, I didn't watch the game, so help me out here. How does Vick throw for 232 yards and 4 touchdowns and he confirms how overrated he is?

And how does Pittsburgh dominate somebody when they give up 41 points?

Was the officiating that bad? I'm not being a smart-tail, I just watched the game on stattracker, so I honestly have no idea how things looked.

Having incredible field position constantly (driven by Pitt not being able to hold onto the football) is the impetus behind the TD's, Dom. Having to drive only 22, 25, 51, and 26 yards can make pretty much any QB look good. Vick was all over the place- particularly in the first half; bouncing throws all over the field and throwing picks. On the throws he did complete, his receivers constantly saved him by making near-circus catches. In short, he looked awful (Kordell Stewart awful). Only the fact that Pitt couldn't figure out how to cover Crumpler running straight down the middle of the field saved Vick from looking embarrassingly bad.

At one point in the first half, Pitt was up 17-7 (with the Falcon's TD coming off a fumbled punt, of course) and the Falcons simply couldn't stop them offensively. Until a fumbled snap (handing the Falcons their 2nd TD), Pitt had scored on every drive while dominating the play both offensively and defensively until they decided to just hand the game away.

And the officiating on the last two possessions in regulation was ridiculous. The refs allowed the Falcons to have a second chance at a game winner and robbed Pittsburgh of their own. But it shouldn't have come to that in the first place if Pittsburgh had simply held onto the ball. Atlanta had absolutely nothing without that.

SteelSD
10-22-2006, 07:50 PM
2. Roughing the kicker is a strict liability penalty. You touch the kicker, you get a flag. Don't want a flag? Don't touch the kicker.

1. The call was "Running into the Kicker"; not "Roughing the Kicker".
2. He didn't touch the kicker. The kicker flopped; acting as if he'd taken a shotgun blast to the head.


3. If you don't want a false start, get set before the snap.

He was. Initially, the refs were going to call an Illegal Formation penalty until they realized that it wouldn't run time off the clock. So they decided to call the phantom False Start instead...on a WR...during a spike play. Riiiight.

Caveat Emperor
10-22-2006, 08:24 PM
2. Roughing the kicker is a strict liability penalty. You touch the kicker, you get a flag. Don't want a flag? Don't touch the kicker.

Nothing bothers me, though, quite like when the kicker takes that "extra hop" to make sure he lands on top of a defender and then writhes on the ground like he's just had his hamstring roll up the back of his leg.

SeeinRed
10-22-2006, 08:27 PM
In order to dominate a game, you must shut down the other Team. The Steelers had no trouble scoring points, they just couldn't stop the Falcons from scoring. They did everything but dominate. You don't dominate and give up 41 points. It just doesn't happen. Say what you will about mistakes and penalties making it appear otherwise, but the Steelers did not put up a dominating performance by any stretch of the immagination. Besides, in order to dominate, you also have to cut down on the mistakes. The Steelers didn't.

Yes, they had 473 yards, 418 of them in the air, but they also gave up 399. 173 of them were on the ground. As much as the Steelers dominated the Falcon's pass defense, the Falcons dominated the Steeler's run defense.

Just like the Bengals last week, the Steelers lost on their own. The officals didn't make them lose. Do calls change outcomes? Absolutely. Ususally because they change momentum, not because they single handedly put points on the board for the other team. I feel for them in that reguard, but you can't blame the penalties alone. The running into the kicker call was mostly because of the acting, but you can't touch the kicker. You can't even let yourself get in a position where that call can be made. Plain and simple. There really is no gray area around it, you can't touch the kicker. The false start was iffy. There was a little movement. I tend to think you don't make that call, but it was a legit call never the less.

SeeinRed
10-22-2006, 08:29 PM
Nothing bothers me, though, quite like when the kicker takes that "extra hop" to make sure he lands on top of a defender and then writhes on the ground like he's just had his hamstring roll up the back of his leg.

You try to give your team an advantage any way you can. Its like taking a charge in Basketball. Very rarely is there much contact, but you're going to act like there was to try to get the call. It might seem a bit rediculous at times, but when your team is the one to get the call, I'm sure you don't complain about it too much.

Yachtzee
10-22-2006, 08:38 PM
1. The call was "Running into the Kicker"; not "Roughing the Kicker".
2. He didn't touch the kicker. The kicker flopped; acting as if he'd taken a shotgun blast to the head.



He was. Initially, the refs were going to call an Illegal Formation penalty until they realized that it wouldn't run time off the clock. So they decided to call the phantom False Start instead...on a WR...during a spike play. Riiiight.

Just watched it again on Football Night In America and it definitely looks like Polamalu rolled into his akle. I didn't see any flop into Polamalu.

I don't know where you got the "Refs were going to call Illegal Formation..." from. I know the announcer thought it was Illegal Formation, but the announcer was quite clearly wrong. As far as the false start goes, Washington was set, then moved and came set again before the snap. False Start.

SteelSD
10-22-2006, 09:05 PM
In order to dominate a game, you must shut down the other Team. The Steelers had no trouble scoring points, they just couldn't stop the Falcons from scoring. They did everything but dominate. You don't dominate and give up 41 points. It just doesn't happen. Say what you will about mistakes and penalties making it appear otherwise, but the Steelers did not put up a dominating performance by any stretch of the immagination. Besides, in order to dominate, you also have to cut down on the mistakes. The Steelers didn't.

Yeah. They actually did. Until the fumble-fest, the Steelers completely throttled the Falcons- who didn't record a first down until the 4:00 minute mark passed in the second quarter. It's easy to misunderstand how cutting the field by 75% can give the appearance that Pittsburgh couldn't stop the Falcons, but they did- and consistently. Problem is that Pitt couldn't stop the stupid turnovers and mental errors (another "Celebration" penalty).


Yes, they had 473 yards, 418 of them in the air, but they also gave up 399. 173 of them were on the ground. As much as the Steelers dominated the Falcon's pass defense, the Falcons dominated the Steeler's run defense.

The Falcons didn't do anything offensively (including running the ball) until the Steelers defense got completely worn down by the turnover-fest and couldn't get off the field. Apparantly, you didn't watch the game or even pay attention to the PBP or drive charts.


Just like the Bengals last week, the Steelers lost on their own. The officals didn't make them lose. Do calls change outcomes? Absolutely. Ususally because they change momentum, not because they single handedly put points on the board for the other team. I feel for them in that reguard, but you can't blame the penalties alone. The running into the kicker call was mostly because of the acting, but you can't touch the kicker. You can't even let yourself get in a position where that call can be made. Plain and simple. There really is no gray area around it, you can't touch the kicker. The false start was iffy. There was a little movement. I tend to think you don't make that call, but it was a legit call never the less.

First, you might want to read my initial post about how the Steelers actually did lose on their own regardless of the penalties. Any other interpretation of what I said is, at best, a misreading of my post. At worst, it's the definition of a strawman. The officiating, however, was as poor as I can remember- including a helmet-to-helmet hit that drew no flag and knocked Ben out of the game and a needless booth review that allowed the Atlanta defense to regroup. Let's see...helmet to helmet on Ben but the Steelers draw a roughing call for hitting Vick while he's running an OPTION play. Seems fair. Of course, Charlie Batch sliced and diced the Falcons to the tune of 195 yards (15.0 Avg.) and two TD's.

BTW, you can minimize the impact of phantom penalities if it's convenient for you, but when the game is at a make-or-break point, there's no coming back from bad calls and "momentum" can't be recovered. The Steelers found that out a few years back when a kicker from the Titans pulled the same flop act and the officials cost Pitt a playoff game. But- AGAIN- it shouldn't have gotten to that point had Pittsburgh not been- AGAIN- a stupid, sloppy team today.

Oh, and there will always be "gray" areas as long as human beings officiate the game. The kicker obviously flopped. The penalty at the end was a phantom call that NEVER gets made (particularly on a WR) when a team is rushing to the line.

Say what you will, but the Steelers dominated the actual play of that game and without the turnovers would have rolled over the Falcons- who couldn't stop them all game long and couldn't get untracked without short fields. But, again, Pittsburgh couldn't get out of their own way so, again, they lost by handing the game to a very very mediocre Atlanta squad.

SteelSD
10-22-2006, 09:09 PM
Just watched it again on Football Night In America and it definitely looks like Polamalu rolled into his akle. I didn't see any flop into Polamalu.

Yeah? And I saw a QB's head being driven into the ground last weekend, so ain't we both content.

max venable
10-22-2006, 10:17 PM
1. The call was "Running into the Kicker"; not "Roughing the Kicker".
2. He didn't touch the kicker. The kicker flopped; acting as if he'd taken a shotgun blast to the head.



He was. Initially, the refs were going to call an Illegal Formation penalty until they realized that it wouldn't run time off the clock. So they decided to call the phantom False Start instead...on a WR...during a spike play. Riiiight.

Conspiracy theory. Riiiight. :rolleyes:

WMR
10-22-2006, 10:45 PM
LOL @ how these Bengals game threads always end up so contentious.

cincy jacket
10-22-2006, 11:31 PM
Didn't want to start a new thread just for this, but looks like the Bengals will get a little bit of break when they play San Diego. Shawne Merriman was just suspended 4 games for breaking the substance abuse policy according the front page of espn.com

traderumor
10-22-2006, 11:31 PM
Very simply, the Bengals O-line got it done in the second half. They completely turned it around after being dominated for a quarter and a half. Palmer had plenty of time more often than not in the second half. One thing that is really frustrating me about Rudi is that he is not really making things happen, if the hole ain't there, he's stuffed. Now, I realize that is typical, but he needs to make something happen on a bounce out or something occasionally. He is making an awful lot of money for someone who is only getting yards on truck sized holes.

traderumor
10-22-2006, 11:33 PM
Didn't want to start a new thread just for this, but looks like the Bengals will get a little bit of break when they play San Diego. Shawne Merriman was just suspended 4 games for breaking the substance abuse policy according the front page of espn.comMust be spending time with Odell.

guttle11
10-23-2006, 02:07 AM
With Henry, CP, Dexter, and Simmons all back, and with the O-line finally gelling, I'm calling it right now...

The Bengals will win 6 of their next 7 games.

GAC
10-23-2006, 07:09 AM
You people quit complaining!! :D

At least you're not Brown fans.

I watched that pitiful display of a game yesterday vs the Broncos and twice had my head in the oven before my wife told me it was electric. ;)

max venable
10-23-2006, 08:14 AM
6 of the next 7? I hope you're right.

Here's the schedule:

Falcons
@Ravens
Chargers
@Saints
@Browns
Ravens
Raiders

If we can win six of those game...that's HUGE. Shoot, I'd be happy to win five. We know we'll beat the Browns and the Raiders...and we'll win at least one of the Ravens games. We need to find a way to win two more...that'll get us to nine wins going into the final three (Colts, Broncos, Steelers).

traderumor
10-23-2006, 12:55 PM
You people quit complaining!! :D

At least you're not Brown fans.

I watched that pitiful display of a game yesterday vs the Broncos and twice had my head in the oven before my wife told me it was electric. ;)

Ah-ha! Now the truth comes out. Falling out of trees and exploding lawnmowers was simply post-yetanotherloss-Brownsfan Depression Syndrome resulting in suicidal tendencies through self-inflicted wounds. Are we going to have a RZ intervention? :evil:

Spring~Fields
10-23-2006, 12:58 PM
You people quit complaining!! :D

At least you're not Brown fans.

I watched that pitiful display of a game yesterday vs the Broncos and twice had my head in the oven before my wife told me it was electric. ;)

Hey I watched the good half of the Bengals game and it was pretty exciting football with a good outcome. I watched the Browns game with a brown grocery bag over my head, even at home. :evil:

Spring~Fields
10-23-2006, 12:59 PM
Ah-ha! Now the truth comes out. Falling out of trees and exploding lawnmowers was simply post-yetanotherloss-Brownsfan Depression Syndrome resulting in suicidal tendencies through self-inflicted wounds. Are we going to have a RZ intervention? :evil:


Yes, See, and he was blaming those poor moles for everything, even world hunger....:devil:

ochre
10-23-2006, 01:52 PM
... my wife told me it was electric. ;)
It's Electric!
You can't see it
It's electric!
You gotta feel it
It's electric!
Ooh, it's shakin'
It's electric!
Jiggle-a-mesa-cara
She's a pumpin' like a matic
She's a movin' like electric
She sure got the boogie
You gotta know it
It's electric
Boogie woogie, woogie!
Now you can't hold it
It's electric
Boogie woogie, woogie!
But you know it's there,
Yeah here there everywhere
I've got to move,
I'm going on a party ride
I've got to groove, groove, groove,
And from this music I just can't hide.
Are you comin' with me?
Come let me take you on a party ride
And I'll teach you, teach you, teach you
I'll teach you the electric slide
Some say it's mystic
It's electric
Boogie woogie, woogie
You can't resist it
It's electric
Boogie woogie, woogie
You can't do without it
It's electric
Boogie woogie, woogie
Jiggle-a-mesa-cara she's a pumpin' like a matic
She's movin' like electric
She sure got the boogie
Don't wanna lose it
It's electric
Boogie woogie, woogie
But you can't choose it
It's electric
Boogie woogie, woogie
But you know it's there,
Yeah here there everywhere
I've got to move,
Come let me take you on a party ride
And I'll teach you, teach you, teach you
I'll teach you the electric slide
Some say it's mystic
It's electric
Boogie woogie, woogie
You can't resist it
It's electric
Boogie woogie, woogie
You can't do without it
It's electric
Boogie woogie, woogie
Jiggle-a-mesa-cara she's a pumpin' like a matic
She's movin' like electric
She sure got the boogie
Don't wanna lose it
It's electric
Boogie woogie, woogie
But you can't choose it
It's electric
Boogie woogie, woogie
But you know it's there,
Yeah here there everywhere

beb30
10-23-2006, 01:56 PM
TradeRumor - do you see how bad Toast James is now?

GAC
10-23-2006, 03:16 PM
Hey I watched the good half of the Bengals game and it was pretty exciting football with a good outcome. I watched the Browns game with a brown grocery bag over my head, even at home. :evil:

Well... at least the bag was BROWN. Good to see you wear your team's colors with pride! :lol:

http://www.trustyandcompany.com/_imagesfuse/manwithbagcloudsml.jpg

I usually ask myself "Paper or plastic?" ;)