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View Full Version : Macha fires parting shots at Beane



Rex Argos
10-22-2006, 12:19 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2634647

If Beane is the micro-manager that Macha says he is--will Oakland have trouble finding a quality manager to take the helm?

Spring~Fields
10-22-2006, 01:04 PM
Makes me wonder how much input the GM's play in the daily decisions of what we believe are the managers decisions and if we are wrong at times for questioning or blaming the manager.

Blimpie
10-22-2006, 01:23 PM
If Macha knew that Beane possessed this quality when he left Oakland the last time...why on Earth did he return to the fold and allow himself to be re-hired?

mth123
10-22-2006, 01:34 PM
If Macha knew that Beane possessed this quality when he left Oakland the last time...why on Earth did he return to the fold and allow himself to be re-hired?

Only 30 Jobs out there. Very few can be choosey.

KronoRed
10-22-2006, 05:15 PM
Beane was right, Kielty should have started over Kotsay.

Rex Argos
10-22-2006, 06:12 PM
Beane was right, Kielty should have started over Kotsay.


But is that Beane's role? If BB is going to dictate the lineup, why even have a manager?

MWM
10-22-2006, 07:00 PM
I can't name a single profession where a boss can have no input on what's done at the level subordinate to them. I don't see why baseball should be any different. The GM, I don't care whether it's Beane, Schuerholz, Dombrowski, etc..., should absoluely have *some* level of input into what types of game strategies and personnel decisions are made in thes day-to-day operations of the baseball team. Afterall, the GM is in charge of the players that are on the team, I don't see why they should just sit back and have no say whatsoever on how those players are utilized.

Facti is, the GM's are the boss and the managers answer to them. The GMs are there because they know the game of baseball and have a strategy for putting together a winning team. I'd be a little concerned if the GM didn't have any say at all in the use of the plaeyrs he acquired.

That's not to say micromanaging is a good thing (And something like suggesting Kielty should start instead of Kotsay is not micromanaging). Just like any other profession, micromanaging isn't a good leadership technique in most instance. I wouldn't work well if I was micromanaged. You need to find good peolpe and let them do their job, but you should have input on the overall strategy of the organization. For some reason in baseball it seems like there's this belief that managers should have no input at all from the GMs and they should be able to do with the players whatever they want. I don't buy that this is the way it shoudl be for a minute.

And I think it's pretty bush league for a manager to go public with these types of statements afterhe's let go. It just reeks of sour grapes. If he believes thse things, fine. But he's coming across as a whiner as far as I can tell.

terminator
10-22-2006, 11:04 PM
So, your GM was micro-managing and your team made the playoffs. Then your GM tried to micro-manage in the playoffs, you ignored him and you lost.

Sounds like Macha is saying Beane should get credit for making the playoffs and Macha is at fault for losing in the playoffs. :p:

IslandRed
10-22-2006, 11:05 PM
And I think it's pretty bush league for a manager to go public with these types of statements afterhe's let go. It just reeks of sour grapes. If he believes thse things, fine. But he's coming across as a whiner as far as I can tell.

I think Macha's comments were calculated in the same way that some needless potshots were taken at Paul DePodesta after his ouster in L.A. Remember that Billy Beane is not exactly the most popular person in baseball. I think the comments were a coded message to potential future employers -- "I may have been in Oakland for years but I'm not one of those Moneyball guys."

Topcat
10-23-2006, 12:36 AM
But is that Beane's role? If BB is going to dictate the lineup, why even have a manager?

Yup have to agree with that point 100 percent.

Jpup
10-23-2006, 01:05 AM
But is that Beane's role? If BB is going to dictate the lineup, why even have a manager?

now they don't.

KronoRed
10-23-2006, 01:10 AM
But is that Beane's role? If BB is going to dictate the lineup, why even have a manager?
I think it is Beane's role to say "hey play this guy he's better then the other one" he's the one who went and got the players.

Not like Beane is calling down telling Macha when to go to the pen.

Highlifeman21
10-23-2006, 01:28 AM
I think it is Beane's role to say "hey play this guy he's better then the other one" he's the one who went and got the players.

Not like Beane is calling down telling Macha when to go to the pen.

Can we get Krivsky to do this for Narron? Please?

BoydsOfSummer
10-23-2006, 01:48 AM
I'd think it would be frustrating as heck to aquire players with a purpose in mind and see them not used properly or not used at all.

jmcclain19
10-23-2006, 02:03 AM
I've posted this in another thread.

Beane's the CEO of his company.

He has a proven successful company philosophy that he wants the entire organization to follow.

Macha's a middle manager, who is deteremined not to follow the policy.

Just as it would happen in any other company - that meddling middle manager gets fired, and replaced until they find someone who will do what the rest of the organization already does.

I don't see why Macha is surprised. In any other type of business with a hands on top dog - this is common place.

Maybe because he's never had to go out in the real world and work a non-baseball job?

Crosley68
10-23-2006, 09:22 AM
Beane should have hired Lou.....now that would have been some fireworks!!!

NJReds
10-23-2006, 10:53 AM
I can't name a single profession where a boss can have no input on what's done at the level subordinate to them. I don't see why baseball should be any different. The GM, I don't care whether it's Beane, Schuerholz, Dombrowski, etc..., should absoluely have *some* level of input into what types of game strategies and personnel decisions are made in thes day-to-day operations of the baseball team. Afterall, the GM is in charge of the players that are on the team, I don't see why they should just sit back and have no say whatsoever on how those players are utilized.

Is anyone telling Leyland what to do? Did Sparky get constant instructions from his GM? I don't think Cashman is giving Torre instructions, and I pretty sure Minaya is letting Willie Randolph make his own decisions. I know that LaRussa's GM isn't telling him what to do.

cincinnati chili
10-23-2006, 11:11 AM
I think Macha's comments were calculated in the same way that some needless potshots were taken at Paul DePodesta after his ouster in L.A. Remember that Billy Beane is not exactly the most popular person in baseball. I think the comments were a coded message to potential future employers -- "I may have been in Oakland for years but I'm not one of those Moneyball guys."

In LA, they took pot-shots at the guy who WAS FIRED. The FIRED GUY did not take the pot shots. As far as I know, DePo handled it with class, and got an Ass. GM job very quickly. If I'm not mistaken, Grady Little didn't fire any pot shots on the way out of Boston. If I'm not mistaken, Phil Garner didn't fire any shots on the way out of Detroit. All these guys, got retread again later, because they handled their adversity with class.

But I do think that you're right that, Beane is hated by some baseball people. Plus, Macha has a record of success. So I think it's possible someone will hire him.

westofyou
10-23-2006, 11:38 AM
Is anyone telling Leyland what to do? Did Sparky get constant instructions from his GM? I don't think Cashman is giving Torre instructions, and I pretty sure Minaya is letting Willie Randolph make his own decisions. I know that LaRussa's GM isn't telling him what to do.

You act as though this has never happened before, well it has... numerous times the GM is the guy that provides the players, you can bet he wants to see them play in certain instances.

BTW Dave Bristol was canned by the Reds because Howsam said "He was too independant", he wasn't used to interacting with the front office and didn't work well with the GM on accomplishing what he wanted.

NJReds
10-23-2006, 11:44 AM
You act as though this has never happened before, well it has... numerous times the GM is the guy that provides the players, you can bet he wants to see them play in certain instances.

BTW Dave Bristol was canned by the Reds because Howsam said "He was too independant", he wasn't used to interacting with the front office and didn't work well with the GM on accomplishing what he wanted.

No. I'm sure it has happened before. But I don't think it's the norm.

The GM hires the manager, you'd think that this would be discussed during the interview process. Beane is very hands-on. You can decide if that's good or bad; it seems to be working for the A's. But I can understand a manager's frustrations, too. I also think it was unprofessional of Macha to attack Beane on the way out the door -- he knew the drill from when Art Howe was the manager.

traderumor
10-23-2006, 01:02 PM
I think the idea of "meddling" between a GM and manager has perhaps gotten misconstrued. It seems to me that they need to communicate and that a manager is not an island unto himself in any organization, even HOF managers mentioned in this thread. While I'm sure a field manager wouldn't be crazy about a GM asking "why did you bunt there?" he would expect some feedback from the front office about who is going to play and what type of situations they think will maximize the talent that has been assembled for their use.

dfs
10-24-2006, 11:50 AM
BTW Dave Bristol was canned by the Reds because Howsam said "He was too independant", he wasn't used to interacting with the front office and didn't work well with the GM on accomplishing what he wanted.

Right. And that's a no-win situation for a manager. I'm sure Dave Miley is sitting in Columbus thinking..."if only I hadn't been so compliant in DanO's schemes."

If things work out...great. If not, the manager is toast, no matter what he's done.

Spring~Fields
10-24-2006, 02:29 PM
You act as though this has never happened before, well it has... numerous times the GM is the guy that provides the players, you can bet he wants to see them play in certain instances.



So then when some of us criticize Narron, for example, with Griffey in center and hitting 3rd or Dunn hitting down in the order, or EE not playing and Clayton playing instead of whoever, we could be wrong, as it could be Krivsky dictating to Narron in a given situation?

flyer85
10-24-2006, 02:40 PM
So then when some of us criticize Narron, for example, with Griffey in center and hitting 3rd or Dunn hitting down in the order, or EE not playing and Clayton playing instead of whoever, we could be wrong, as it could be Krivsky dictating to Narron in a given situation?I would it is fair to assume that since WK gave JN an extension that they are pretty much on the same page about who should be playing and how things ought to be done.

I doubt WK dictated lineups to JN but the fact that JN's contract was extneded by WK probably means that they agreed about how Narron ran the club and contructed lineups.