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swingman24
10-23-2006, 01:51 PM
1. Adam Dunn will be traded, Wayne has already gotten rid of three 100+ strikeout guys: Kearns, Lopez, and Wily Mo. Dunn will prolly bring them a starting pitcher and a reliever.

Cincinnati Reds send Adam Dunn, Jason LaRue and Rich Aurilia to the Detroit Tigers for Humberto Sanchez and Fernando Rodney.

2. Wayne will eat Eric Milton's contract by releasing him and will eat LaRue's by trading him and paying the Tigers his contract.

3. The Reds will sign a right handed power bat: Gary Sheffield (if option isn't picked up), Jose Guillen, or Alfonso Soriano.

We would love to have Soriano but his price may be too high, Sheffield might be too old, so I would go with Jose Guillen.

4. Wayne needs to make a decision on who to play at SS. I think he will go ahead and put Phillips at short but now who do you put at 2B? Aurilia has been traded (see above) and Freel's hitting cannot be sustained everyday. So if i was Wayne I would rather sign a free agent, find someone in the system, or trade for one.

When it comes down to it, give Olmedo a chance cuz he's earned it.

5. Wayne will pick up a flame throwing closer. He was spoiled when he has Joe Nathan in Minnesota so I'm thinking he'll try to pick up one like Nathan.

But he doesn't have to pick up one... Put Fernando Rodney in that slot.

Lineup:
1. Ryan Freel LF
2. Brandon Phillips SS
3. Ken Griffey Jr. CF
4. Jose Guillen RF
5. Joey Votto 1B
6. Encarnacion 3B
7. David Ross C
8. Ray Olmedo 2B
9. P

Bench:
C Javier Valentin
IF Juan Castro
IF Royce Clayton
OF Todd Hollandsworth
OF Chris Denorfia

Rotation:
1. Aaron Harang
2. Bronson Arroyo
3. Humberto Sanchez
4. Kyle Lohse
5. Elizardo Ramirez/Homer Bailey

Bullpen:
Fernando Rodney (CL)
Bill Bray
Gary Majewski
Scott Schoeneweis
Matt Belisle
Todd Coffey
Rheal Cormier

Looks like a winner to me... what do you think? is this possible?

Z-Fly
10-23-2006, 01:56 PM
Can't trade a Free Agent (Rich). I have not done my research but I am pretty sure the Jose is a 100+ strike out guy so that would go against your theory.

Degenerate39
10-23-2006, 01:58 PM
I'm sure they won't be trading Dunn and they can't trade Richie because he's a free agent.

NJReds
10-23-2006, 01:58 PM
The Mets may be interested in signing Aurilia as their everyday second baseman.

swingman24
10-23-2006, 02:10 PM
Rich has an option tho and they prolly will pick it up... and Guillen has only struck out 100 times twice in his 13 year career

registerthis
10-23-2006, 02:15 PM
Lose Dunn and replace him with Jose Guillen?

God, I hope not.

TeamSelig
10-23-2006, 02:20 PM
Reds did pick up the option on Rich, but it's a mutual option, meaning Rich doesn't have to if he doesn't want to. Doubtful that he will considering its kinda iffy on him having a starting role, and he could get more on the market than $2 million (which is what his option is for)

The lineup there isn't going to score very many runs IMO... you can never count on Griffey for a whole season, last year was Phillips AND Ross's first decent year (who knows if they'll do it again), I think Olmedo has proved that he can't be an every day MLB starter (however I'm ok with him on the bench), Votto could still be a bust (and probably won't tear apart the league his rookie season), and lastly, I don't think Jose Guillen is horrible or a bad player, but he is getting up there in age & doesn't walk much. Not really a player I'd feel comfortable counting on to produce big numbers.

Also, why release Milton? I agree he's not much of a pitcher, but he did have quite a few quality starts this season. Plus, next season his contract runs out so look for him to put up good #'s (good for him) in his contract year.

flyer85
10-23-2006, 02:22 PM
Rich has an option tho and they prolly will pick it up... Rich and the Reds have a mutual option, meaning he will very likely be free agent once again.

flyer85
10-23-2006, 02:23 PM
Rich has an option tho and they prolly will pick it up... and Guillen has only struck out 100 times twice in his 13 year careermaybe Narron likes guys that will pee on his desk.

klw
10-23-2006, 02:43 PM
Actually Guillen has only had 11 major league seasons, many of which he was only part-time or injured. He has averaged 104 k's per 162 games played.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3592

I still contend that the comments Krivsky made when Gill was traded for may indicate that strikeouts are not a bar for him.

SultanOfSwing
10-23-2006, 03:01 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't agree with any of your points. I do believe Adam Dunn will be traded, but not for that package. Rodney is a nice reliever and has closer potential, but he isn't Zumaya. Sanchez is just not an elite prospect. People think he is great because he got pub around the trade deadline. He was average before this year and has put up good to very good number this year in AA. He is still probably 2-3 years away from the bigs. If that is Dunn's trade value, then we should easily get Vernon Wells, Brandon League, and Ted Lilly (a FA to balance it out ;)) for Wood/Pelland and Coffey.

Why is Royce Clayton on the team and Ranier Olmedo starting?!! Sanchez is not in the majors next year, much less a 3rd starter. Why eat Milton's contract when he would be better than Sanchez in 2007, and actually has some trade value? And why.... I digress.

redsfansince1989 I respect you views and opinions, but give Wayne Krivsky some credit.

redsmetz
10-23-2006, 03:40 PM
Rich has an option tho and they prolly will pick it up... and Guillen has only struck out 100 times twice in his 13 year career

The option on Aurelia is a "mutual option". The Reds have said they will excercise their option, but because it's mutual, Rich must exercise it as well. Otherwise, he's a free agent. That knocks him out of any potential trade scenario. Yes, Guillen has only had two 100 K seasons, but according to baseball-reference.com, his 162 game average is over 100. I'd take Dunner's power over Guillen's average K's any day.

Eric_Davis
10-23-2006, 07:02 PM
Man, I love Wayne.

It's not the big moves that make a franchise better, but all the little ones.

10/23/2006:

On his 26th birthday, Jon Coutlangus earned a win in relief Saturday by striking out two in a scoreless inning for Phoenix of the AFL.

The Reds benefited from Giants GM Brian Sabean's horrid roster management, claiming Coutlangus off waivers at the end of March. He went on to finish with a 2.86 ERA and a .185 average against in 63 innings for Double-A and he's currently up to five scoreless innings in the AFL. Coutlangus is a converted outfielder, so his age isn't quite so important. He has a chance to be a fine left-handed reliever if he continues to improve his command.

.....................................In Wayne I Trust..........................................

wheels
10-23-2006, 07:04 PM
Lemme get this straight.

He wants to dump K's, but will sign guys like Soriano and Guillen.

Yeah, those guys don't K much.

Falls City Beer
10-23-2006, 07:08 PM
Man, I love Wayne.

It's not the big moves that make a franchise better, but all the little ones.

.

Is that really true?

I mean, the move that totally turned around the Twins' franchise (Liriano/Nathan for that catcher) was a really big move. Now how much of that was Wayne, I don't know, but I'm not sure it is the little ones.

Bowden made a career out of turning the "little ones" into mediocre seasons; it's when he went for the brass ring (Boone for Neagle; Laverne for Vaughn) that things started to improve.

Krusty
10-23-2006, 07:34 PM
I think if Dunn is traded, Krivsky will look to get an established pitcher in return.

Best deal could be one with the Angels involving RHP Ervin Santana. Angels need help at third, lst and center. It is no secret that the Angels covet Orioles shortstop Miguel Tejada. If somehow a three-way deal involving these teams could happen, the Orioles could make up some of Tejada's lost production with Dunn.

Now how do you replace Dunn? Probably free agency. As mentioned Jose Guillen is out there. And you have to ask yourself are the Reds better with Dunn alone or with Santana and Guillen?

Jr's Boy
10-23-2006, 07:34 PM
2. Wayne will eat Eric Milton's contract by releasing him and will eat LaRue's by trading him and paying the Tigers his contract.



After that it wouldn't leave much money to throw around for free agents.

Krusty
10-23-2006, 07:36 PM
2. Wayne will eat Eric Milton's contract by releasing him and will eat LaRue's by trading him and paying the Tigers his contract.



After that it wouldn't leave much money to throwaround for free agents.

People forget that Milton will be on his final year of his contract and will be pitching for a new one. To give him away for nothing doesn't help the Reds especially when they are forking the tab.

SeeinRed
10-23-2006, 07:45 PM
People forget that Milton will be on his final year of his contract and will be pitching for a new one. To give him away for nothing doesn't help the Reds especially when they are forking the tab.

I agree. I don't understand how releasing Milton helps in any way. Its not his pitching that is crippling this team, its the fact that he isn't as good as his contract would suggest. To eat his contract and get nothing in return makes no sense at all to me.

Patrick Bateman
10-23-2006, 08:06 PM
People forget that Milton will be on his final year of his contract and will be pitching for a new one. To give him away for nothing doesn't help the Reds especially when they are forking the tab.

Especially with the desire for any kind of pitching in this league.

I think a high market team or a team with a large ballpark would take Milton off our hands assuming we pay 4-5M of his contract. If we could do a trade like that, Krivsky may have enough money to afford a Lilly type pitcher.

Strikes Out Looking
10-23-2006, 08:10 PM
I agree. I don't understand how releasing Milton helps in any way. Its not his pitching that is crippling this team, its the fact that he isn't as good as his contract would suggest. To eat his contract and get nothing in return makes no sense at all to me.

The Reds are on the hook for Milton's salary regardless of if they use him or not. Plus since Milton had season ending surgery, its not a sure thing he'll even be back so I don't know why they would flat out release him at this point.

As to Dunn. My crystal ball has me sensing a blockbuster deal coming in December involving the Reds and the Red Sox. I think Bronson will like who the new LF is...

RedLegSuperStar
10-23-2006, 08:35 PM
What no Scott Hatteberg?

Milton won't be released. I'd rather him pitch 4th or 5th in the rotation than have guys named Mays, Michalak, or Kim. With that said we still need a number 3 guy. Eaton, Lilly, or even through trade. Allow Claussen and Lohse to battle for 5th spot. Whoever misses the rotation becomes long relief/spot starter.

Start Elizardo in AAA as a Starter. I think you have to resign Scott Schoenewies. Maybe sign FA Keith Folke to close. Go with a pen of Claussen/Lohse, Schoenewies, Bray, Majewski, Bray, Cormier, and Folke.

I got to think the chopping block will start with LaRue and Dunn. We deal them and pay for 1/2 their contracts (at the most) then we have an extra 8 million to spend to go along with the 10-15 or so million that is estimated. That would give us 20 or so million to resign Harang, Lohse, Ross, Schoenewies, and also spend on Folke and a #3 starter.

RedLegSuperStar
10-23-2006, 08:41 PM
As to Dunn. My crystal ball has me sensing a blockbuster deal coming in December involving the Reds and the Red Sox. I think Bronson will like who the new LF is...

If it's Manny then we will get the same defense out of him as we did Dunn. Maybe worse.. not sure Bronson will care for that. Plus Manny will veto that deal (10/5). I'd rather have Crisp/Pena and Lester.

flyer85
10-23-2006, 08:43 PM
If it's Manny then we will get the same defense out of him as we did Dunn.much worse, Manny is far and away the worst defensive OF in baseball. And that is while playing the smallest LF in baseball.

dfs
10-23-2006, 09:25 PM
When it comes down to it, give Olmedo a chance cuz he's earned it.

????? Exactly how has Ray Olmedo earned anything like major league PT?

I mean...I agree with you that the organization needs to make a decision about Olmedo because he's out of options, but given that they brought in Womack, Freel, Aurilia, Phillips, Castro AND Clayton and given all of them more PT than they were willing to invest in Olmedo...doesn't that pretty much tell you what they think of him?

Tony Cloninger
10-23-2006, 10:11 PM
I do not think WK cares that Dunn K's almost 200 times a year.....as long as he has 40-50 HR, 100+ RBI/RS/BB.

It's players like LaRue and even Freel who drive you crazy by SO as much as they do with not nearly as good of production.

I mean Freel better start walking 100 times before he SO almost 100 times again.

Some do not care about a player's SO....... I say there better be some good production to go along with those K's for it not to matter.

CWRed
10-23-2006, 10:25 PM
Um, we still have Hatteberg at 1st.

Unless I've missed something the past few days.

RedLegSuperStar
10-24-2006, 08:37 AM
Um, we still have Hatteberg at 1st.

Unless I've missed something the past few days.

I was refering to the poster on Hatteberg.. just didnt want to qoute his entire post

fourrunhomer
10-24-2006, 09:16 AM
Royce Clayton will not be part of the Reds next year.....
If the Reds are able to get Rich A. to take his option, he will not be traded.
I really don't see the Reds releasing Milton. He Gets a shot at coming back from his injury.
Ray Olmedo may be with the team, but I question how much of a shot he will get. they did not seem to give him much of a shot last year.

Last year at this time, I thought I had a decent grasp on some of the moves that would be made. This year I really don't know. I believe Krivsky will make some BIG moves and we will probably be surprised by some of them.

fourrunhomer
10-24-2006, 09:20 AM
On his 26th birthday, Jon Coutlangus earned a win in relief Saturday by striking out two in a scoreless inning for Phoenix of the AFL.



I can see the word plays now. What a name.

scounts22
10-24-2006, 10:28 AM
Royce Clayton will not be part of the Reds next year.....

Let's hope not.

Redsnake
10-24-2006, 12:05 PM
Okay, here are my 5 Wayne moves:
1) Milton and Larue to Yankees for Pavano - I'm sure the Yankees would do this and the salaries will off set each other. Pavano needs a change and could be a very good #4 with a chance to be a #2. Pavano will be healthy by then and Ross becomes the opening day catcher.
2) Reds sign Suppan - I would rather have Lilly here, but I think Suppan would be cheaper. Will slide into the 3rd/4th slot. This move would allow the Reds to move the rights to Lohse and his projected $3.5 million salary elsewhere.
3) Lohse and Prospect to Mariners for R.Soriano or/Putz - Putz is the closer and Soriano has suppose to be the future. Whichever one they don't want. Meche and Pinerio are free agents so a cheap SP the Mariners need.
4) Reds sign Justin Speier - Was a very good setup guy for BJ Ryan. Could even close.
5) Reds sign Luis Gonzalez - Yes, that Luis(Diamondbacks). Should come cheap. Nearly lead the league in 2B and would be a short term option until Bruce is ready.

SultanOfSwing
10-24-2006, 12:23 PM
Okay, here are my 5 Wayne moves:
1) Milton and Larue to Yankees for Pavano - I'm sure the Yankees would do this and the salaries will off set each other. Pavano needs a change and could be a very good #4 with a chance to be a #2. Pavano will be healthy by then and Ross becomes the opening day catcher.

I don't see the Yankees trading Pavano. He is not expected to be back in 2007 (maybe later in the year), and is likely un-tradable. Plus, he makes $10m in 2007, $11m in 2008, and has a $1.95m buyout for 2009 (or $13m club option). That is a lot of money for the Reds to tie up (as opposed to Milton and LaRue off books in 2008).


2) Reds sign Suppan - I would rather have Lilly here, but I think Suppan would be cheaper. Will slide into the 3rd/4th slot. This move would allow the Reds to move the rights to Lohse and his projected $3.5 million salary elsewhere.

After Suppan's performance in the playoffs, I don't think he will be cheap. He will be vastly overpaid. He just isn't any better than a #5 (or maybe a #4).


3) Lohse and Prospect to Mariners for R.Soriano or/Putz - Putz is the closer and Soriano has suppose to be the future. Whichever one they don't want. Meche and Pinerio are free agents so a cheap SP is what the Mariners need.

I could see the Mariners doing a deal similar to this, but I would imagine they would get better offers elsewhere.


4) Reds sign Justin Speier - Was a very good setup guy for BJ Ryan. Could even close.

I'm fine with this.


5) Reds sign Luis Gonzalez - Yes, that Luis(Diamondbacks). Should come cheap. Nearly lead the league in 2B and would be a short term option until Bruce is ready.

I don't know.

BEETTLEBUG
10-24-2006, 12:35 PM
I like your 5 Wayne moves ( REDSNAKE)

Z-Fly
10-24-2006, 02:06 PM
What no Scott Hatteberg?

Milton won't be released. I'd rather him pitch 4th or 5th in the rotation than have guys named Mays, Michalak, or Kim. With that said we still need a number 3 guy. Eaton, Lilly, or even through trade. Allow Claussen and Lohse to battle for 5th spot. Whoever misses the rotation becomes long relief/spot starter.

Start Elizardo in AAA as a Starter. I think you have to resign Scott Schoenewies. Maybe sign FA Keith Folke to close. Go with a pen of Claussen/Lohse, Schoenewies, Bray, Majewski, Bray, Cormier, and Folke.

I got to think the chopping block will start with LaRue and Dunn. We deal them and pay for 1/2 their contracts (at the most) then we have an extra 8 million to spend to go along with the 10-15 or so million that is estimated. That would give us 20 or so million to resign Harang, Lohse, Ross, Schoenewies, and also spend on Folke and a #3 starter.


You didn't take into account the salarys we take in from the trade. Unless you are assuming that they are prospects and are makeing close to the minimum.

RedLegSuperStar
10-24-2006, 02:14 PM
You didn't take into account the salarys we take in from the trade. Unless you are assuming that they are prospects and are makeing close to the minimum.

I figured LaRue would bring in pennies on the dollar and Dunn would bring in the #3 starter and maybe a prospect. So actually I did factor that in.

Redsnake
10-24-2006, 03:00 PM
Thanks BEETTELBUG!!

Redsnake
10-24-2006, 03:25 PM
I don't see the Yankees trading Pavano. He is not expected to be back in 2007 (maybe later in the year), and is likely un-tradable. Plus, he makes $10m in 2007, $11m in 2008, and has a $1.95m buyout for 2009 (or $13m club option). That is a lot of money for the Reds to tie up (as opposed to Milton and LaRue off books in 2008).


I thought I seen where if not for a car wreck that Pavano was going to pitch this past September. So I assume he would be ready for opening day. You're right about the 2008 and 2009 season, but I'm talking 2007. As far as the money goes 2007 the Reds will save money by dealing Milton $7mil and LaRue $5. After that the Reds can decide to keep Pavano or trade him. If he return some what his value will increase and have better trade value.


[/QUOTE]After Suppan's performance in the playoffs, I don't think he will be cheap. He will be vastly overpaid. He just isn't any better than a #5 (or maybe a #4).[/QUOTE]

I could only hope for a LSMVP #5 pitcher on my beloved Reds team.


[/QUOTE]I could see the Mariners doing a deal similar to this, but I would imagine they would get better offers elsewhere.[/QUOTE]

That's where the "Prospect" comes in. Sweetin the deal.



[/QUOTE]I'm fine with this.[/QUOTE]



[/QUOTE] don't know.[/QUOTE]
Just an OF option

SultanOfSwing
10-24-2006, 03:57 PM
I could only hope for a LSMVP #5 pitcher on my beloved Reds team.


One (or two) NLCS does not a pitcher make.

terminator
10-24-2006, 04:29 PM
5) Reds sign Luis Gonzalez - Yes, that Luis(Diamondbacks). Should come cheap. Nearly lead the league in 2B and would be a short term option until Bruce is ready.
Depending on the price, I wouldn't mind seeing him in a Reds uniform for a year or two. He can still play. The Diamonbacks declined his $10MM option, so I assume the price would be less than that. Of course if you have Dunn and Griffey in the corner OF spots, I'm not sure where you'd play him.

Superdude
10-24-2006, 05:02 PM
Lohse and Prospect to Mariners for R.Soriano or/Putz

Putz makes like 400K and was one of the best closers in baseball last year. I seriously doubt Wayne could pull that deal.

Redsnake
10-24-2006, 05:31 PM
One (or two) NLCS does not a pitcher make.

No, but a better option then a Mays, D.Williams, etc.

Patrick Bateman
10-24-2006, 05:46 PM
No, but a better option then a Mays, D.Williams, etc.

He may be better, but that doesn't make him very good.

Redsnake
10-24-2006, 11:29 PM
He may be better, but that doesn't make him very good.

Then what would you guys recommend. Picking up Zito, Schimdt? Trading for Tim Hudson, Bonderman. I'm trying to think like a small market team. I'm not Suppan crazied. I just think an addition of a Suppan/Lilly/Wolf type pitcher would be an upgrade.

I like to here your thoughts Austin Kearns and isaiahbarney. What are your 5 moves?!?

Patrick Bateman
10-25-2006, 12:26 AM
Then what would you guys recommend. Picking up Zito, Schimdt? Trading for Tim Hudson, Bonderman. I'm trying to think like a small market team. I'm not Suppan crazied. I just think an addition of a Suppan/Lilly/Wolf type pitcher would be an upgrade.

I like to here your thoughts Austin Kearns and isaiahbarney. What are your 5 moves?!?

Well going out and saying 5 moves is kind of unrealistic because there are a lot of factors in play that I have zero control over.

One thing I do know, is that because of Suppan's success in the playoffs, he is going to command 6-7M per year for about 2 years. Pitching is that inflated. And he isn't very good. Small market teams can't afford to sign average-below average starters lots of money. He's comparable to Lohse, but will cost an extra 3M plus a longer contract.

Also there is no way Seattle would trade Putz or Soriano for Lohse/prospect. That prospect would likely have to be one of the big three and I'm guessing that wouldn't be a very popular move at this point. Lohse is going to have very little value in the trade market. You wont get one of the best relievers in the game for him.

Some realistic moves I would explore are:

1. Trade LaRue and eat about 2M to a team like the Blue Jays. The Jays need a catcher with Molina and Zaun's contracts expiring. 3M for one year should give LaRue some trade value. I'd try to get Accardo or another decent relief/prospect.

2. Rather than overpay for average starters via the FA market, I would explore trades. If a LaRue trade doesn't work out, we may get a decent rotation option/or a cheap pitcher reacing the majors for Ross since he's going to be cheap and fairly productive over the next couple of years. It's a good time to trade him since he's likely reached his peak.

A pitcher I would target is Doug Davis. I believe he's due to make around 5M next year and just came off a 5.00 ERA season. I like his chances of bouncing back to being a reasonable starting pitcher that would give us a solid top 3 starters. He may be available since he didn't pitch up to a 5M level of play and is on a 1 year contract. He would be a nice target for just the one year and Krivsky may not have to give up much for him. Maybe Pelland and some other mid-level prospects since the Brewers may decide to put payroll into other places.

3. I would explore moving Milton and try to eat 5-6M of his contract. With teams desperate for pitching, Milton may have some value at 3-4M for one season. If we could get anything of value in return for him, great, otherwise I'm happy with saving 3-4M to put into other areas and give rotation spots to guys like Ramirez/Claussen that could pitch up to Milton's level of play (or even greater) at a much lesser cost.

4. Signing a guy like Speier for 2-4M would be fine with me as long as the contract doesn't go too long. It would be a decent risk and wouldn't take too much off of the payroll. It fills a good need.

5. To fill out the rest of the line-up with savings hopefully from Milton and LaRue trades should give us enough money to resign a guy like Aurilia that could platoon at 1st base with Hatteberg and fill in around 2nd base. A similar cheaper option would be Wes Helms. He can hit lefties and would be a perfect partner for Hatteberg.

I would love to move Griffey to RF and plug a guy like Deno in CF, but if that doesn't happen, rather than signing Gonzalez, I would target Delucci to play RF. He's hit quite well the last 2 seasons and would be fairly economical.

If we can ove Griffey to RF, then instead of signing Delucci, our resources may be better allocated at 2nd base. We are pretty low on infielders. A guy I would target is Orlando Hudson. The D-Backs are set with Drew at SS and Callaspo coming up at 2nd base, so he should be available for an affordable rate. He plays great defense and isn't the worst hitter around. Plus he's a guy that fits in with Krivsky's toolset.


Again, it's extremely difficult to give you an exact run down of an offseason plan in 15 minutes. It's extremely complicated since there are just so many factors that none of here know of. So I think those are some pretty realistic ideas that would make us better for this year without mortgaging the future, and would hopefully leave us with some more money to play around with for the next couple of seasons. And it's going to be hard to acquire any ace pitchers for the future unless we trade Dunn, and even then I doubt any team gives us anywhere close to fair value for him.

Slyder
10-25-2006, 01:01 AM
Then what would you guys recommend. Picking up Zito, Schimdt? Trading for Tim Hudson, Bonderman. I'm trying to think like a small market team. I'm not Suppan crazied. I just think an addition of a Suppan/Lilly/Wolf type pitcher would be an upgrade.

I like to here your thoughts Austin Kearns and isaiahbarney. What are your 5 moves?!?

I know you didnt say me directly but I dont remember you saying anything about mine when I posted it the first time.

Heres the link:
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1162999&postcount=32

I updated it to reflect changes with possible Free Agents and Lidle's tragic death. Also changed a bit in the plan to fill some holes I left in the initial workings.

I'm looking forward to thoughts and comments about my "plan".

Eric_Davis
10-25-2006, 04:32 AM
Is that really true?

I mean, the move that totally turned around the Twins' franchise (Liriano/Nathan for that catcher) was a really big move. Now how much of that was Wayne, I don't know, but I'm not sure it is the little ones.

Bowden made a career out of turning the "little ones" into mediocre seasons; it's when he went for the brass ring (Boone for Neagle; Laverne for Vaughn) that things started to improve.

There was nothing to turn around with the Twin's franchise. Their farm system continued to churn out pitchers and players. They drafted well, and tried not to overpay for players very often. It was always the little moves with the Twins that allowed them to win a couple of World Series in the Free Agent era and every once in a while contend where teams like the Pirates, Brewers, and Royals continually flounder.

Bowden never has been and never will be a "little move" guy. He was always looking to hit the homerun to the detriment of the franchise.

Unless Krivsky dies, or ownership changes, the Cincinnati REDS are going to be perennial September contenders for the next 10 years. I'm going to enjoy this (and already am enjoying it.)

You want to have some fun? Start heading out to the REDS' minor league affiliates for some weekends next year to catch a glimpse of some of their future starters and contributors to teams that will be in the playoffs.

Eric_Davis
10-25-2006, 04:35 AM
I can see the word plays now. What a name.

You must have seen too much Larry Flynt.

:eek: