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Redlegs23
10-25-2006, 06:41 PM
How many of you consider yourselves UC basketball fans, but not UC football fans. And by fans I mean you actively follow the program, go to the majority of games or at least listen on the radio/watch on tv the games that you cannot attend.

If you consider yourself a fan of the basketball program but impartial to the football program, why is that?

Also, how many of you consider yourselves UC basketball fans and OSU football fans? I'm trying to get a feel for why it's so difficult for UC football to get anyone to their games. They have a pretty good team this year, cheap tickets (starting at $10), and several activities on campus leading up to the games as well as a nice stadium. I really think the football program is rising, and has potential to turn themselves around as Louisville has done in the recent past. However, I'm not so sure that the "fans" will come out and support them until they do something big like the bball team did with the final four. Anybody have thoughts on this?

I'm a member of a UC message board where there is all kinds of discussions on this, and I just wanted to see how many people over here fit the bill of being UC fans but only for basketball.

Cedric
10-25-2006, 06:44 PM
It's simple. No tradition and no ties. A commuting campus must have tradition or a big name coach (Huggins) that brings the fans in. When Gino Guiduli is in your ring of honor already you got problems.

There are VERY few UC Bearcat football fans from birth. There are no family ties and tradition.

Reds4Life
10-25-2006, 06:45 PM
I'm a big UC basketball fan, could care less about the football team. It isn't just UC football though, I'm not a fan of football in general. I don't watch the Bengals or OSU either.

wolfboy
10-25-2006, 06:50 PM
I don't follow the basketball program as much as I used to. I never followed the football program in the past, and I've started to. I don't really have much more than a casual interest in either program.
Over the years, my interest in basketball in general has waned, while my interest in football has increased. If I weren't a graduate of UC, I don't think I would follow the football team at all.
I think I really enjoy both teams more since the move to the Big East. I like the notion of being an underdog in a major conference. It's much more enjoyable for me than being the big fish in a little pond.

vaticanplum
10-25-2006, 06:55 PM
My family has season tickets to the UC football team. I've yet to determine why. They drag me along from time to time. It bores me to tears, apart from the members of my family themselves, who are very entertaining.

They do not follow basketball as much. i think they just like football better than basketball and this is cheaper and more family-friendly than the Bengals. I couldn't really tell you why they are such an exception, since as I said, I don't really pay much attention. But there you have it: some people do follow the football team and not the basketball team.

Chip R
10-25-2006, 09:17 PM
I think one big problem that UC football has - and I know this sounds silly - no place to tailgate. I know about the practice field where they have games and stuff going on but that seems very contrived to me. If you want to park, you have to do it in the garages. Does not make for a real good time.

I think another thing is that it is a commuter college. A lot of students are from Cincinnati and the surrounding area. When Friday afternoon comes they go home. They aren't staying on campus because they don't have to. If the public doesn't see the students at the game they probably figure they shouldn't go either.

I used to go to 3-4 UC games a year when I first moved here. That was more because my girlfriend at the time was a UC student. I was there for the Wisconsin game. It was a great atmosphere but they were playing a Big 10 team who brought a lot of fans. I think if UC Football had had success like UC hoops has had recently, it might be more popular. It's not like people don't like football here. They're crazy about high school football and are passionate about the Bengals. Stands to reason UC football should be popular as well. It's not like they don't recruit local players either.

I don't necessarily think it's one thing that is to blame. It's a lot of little things. I think they ae going in the right direction. They have some good rivalries in the Big East with WV and Pitt and LOU and Syracuse. But sometimes you can't pay people to go to your games. Like when the Reds were playing the Padres and they cut ticket prices and sold $1 hot dogs. They didn't get any more than they would have if they had sold them at regular price. The fans lost interest. Right now, UC fans don't have much interest in the team.

paintmered
10-25-2006, 09:32 PM
UC does have a tailgating lot. It's not much of one, but they do have one. It's located alongside the baseball field in front of Edwards.

As for the lack of fans, it's fairly obvious that this city won't support a team that doesn't have success. We're seeing that with the Reds right now. No amount of advertising and marketing got fans to the ballpark in September. The Bearcats are going through similar struggles. Saturday is homecoming, so that will help with attendance - although I'm worried about the weather forecast. Precipitation tends to drive the UC crowds away.

UC football is definetly headed in the right direction. They were picked to only win 3-4 games this year but now have a legitimate shot of ending up in a bowl game. The core of the team is in their sophomore season, so this team is going to do nothing but improve between now and 2008.

I expect to see 8-9 wins out of them next year. Maybe that will be enough to get them over the hump and see attendance increase.

paintmered
10-25-2006, 09:39 PM
I think another thing is that it is a commuter college. A lot of students are from Cincinnati and the surrounding area. When Friday afternoon comes they go home. They aren't staying on campus because they don't have to. If the public doesn't see the students at the game they probably figure they shouldn't go either.

I hear people saying this all the time, and I'm not so sure how true it is. There's 3500 students living on campus and at least 10,000 more within a mile of campus.

I've been here over four years now and the vast majority of people I know (many from cincinnati) are still around campus on the weekends. The bigger concern is apathy, not commuting.

Chip R
10-25-2006, 09:52 PM
UC does have a tailgating lot. It's not much of one, but they do have one. It's located alongside the baseball field in front of Edwards.

As for the lack of fans, it's fairly obvious that this city won't support a team that doesn't have success. We're seeing that with the Reds right now. No amount of advertising and marketing got fans to the ballpark in September. The Bearcats are going through similar struggles. Saturday is homecoming, so that will help with attendance - although I'm worried about the weather forecast. Precipitation tends to drive the UC crowds away.

UC football is definetly headed in the right direction. They were picked to only win 3-4 games this year but now have a legitimate shot of ending up in a bowl game. The core of the team is in their sophomore season, so this team is going to do nothing but improve between now and 2008.

I expect to see 8-9 wins out of them next year. Maybe that will be enough to get them over the hump and see attendance increase.

That's good. I haven't been to a game in 5 years so I didn't know about the new lot. I have been to more UC football games than basketball games though. I don't have any horse in this race but I do root for UC. I believe you when you say that fans here only support successful teams.

But how successful does UC have to be? Do they have to go to BCS bowls every year? Should they stop scheduling teams like tOSU and get some lower level teams to play them for an easy win? They went to several bowls during the Minter years and it didn't seem to matter even when the Bengals and Reds were down.

paintmered
10-25-2006, 10:34 PM
They went to several bowls during the Minter years and it didn't seem to matter even when the Bengals and Reds were down.

Right, but let's take a look at the bowl game affiliations between CUSA and the Big East:

Big East:
BCS game
Gator Bowl
Sun Bowl
Meineke Car Care Bowl
Texas Bowl
International Bowl
Birmingham Bowl

CUSA:
GMAC Bowl
Liberty Bowl
Armed Forces Bowl
Birmingham Bowl
New Orleans

Are any of those CUSA bowl affiliations going to inspire a fanbase? Absolutely not. The New Orleans Bowl win did nothing for this program a few years ago.

But there are some very attractive bowls the Big East will send teams to this year. I don't think it's going to take a BCS bid, but if UC could make it to the Sun or Gator Bowl, that should be enough to charge the fanbase.

Also, next year's non-conf schedule for UC is going to be much more sane than this year's schedule. There is still one game left to schedule, but the other four are Fresno St., Marshall, Miami (Oh), and I-AA S.E. Missouri St. Going into Columbus and Blacksburg in the same year is rediculous.

Chip R
10-25-2006, 11:14 PM
Right, but let's take a look at the bowl game affiliations between CUSA and the Big East:

Big East:
BCS game
Gator Bowl
Sun Bowl
Meineke Car Care Bowl
Texas Bowl
International Bowl
Birmingham Bowl

CUSA:
GMAC Bowl
Liberty Bowl
Armed Forces Bowl
Birmingham Bowl
New Orleans

Are any of those CUSA bowl affiliations going to inspire a fanbase? Absolutely not. The New Orleans Bowl win did nothing for this program a few years ago.

But there are some very attractive bowls the Big East will send teams to this year. I don't think it's going to take a BCS bid, but if UC could make it to the Sun or Gator Bowl, that should be enough to charge the fanbase.


Boy, I dunno, paint. The Gator Bowl is about the only one out there that's worth a darn. Let's face it, if it isn't being played on or after New Years day, nobody really gives a hoot. I may be way off but I don't see a lot of UC folk heading to either Jacksonville or El Paso to watch a 7-4 or 8-3 team.

The bowl affiliation with the conferences is a problem too. Let me give you an example. Back in the 70s, Iowa had a horrible football program. They hired Hayden Fry and petty soon they started going to bowls, the first of which was the Rose Bowl. Now there weren't so many bowls back then so most of them had some panache to them. I believe they played in the Gator Bowl one year, Holiday Bowl another, Peach Bowl another year. They were going to different bowls every year with a trip to Pasadena thrown in there every few years. But in the 90s they started doing these conference tie ins with the bowls. Some of the other doormats of the Big 10 improves as well like Wisconsin and MSU and Purdue and even Northwestern. Plus they added Penn St. Iowa started getting mediocre. They would finish about 4th or 5th about every year and were obligated to go to the Sun Bowl or the Alamo Bowl. The first couple of years was OK but after that people lost interest because they were going to the same bowls every year. Nothing against San Antonio but my friends and I took to calling the Alamo bowl the Al-Lame-o Bowl. People like going to different places. If they don't make the BCS game, UC is going to be in the same situation. After a few years it will be, "Ho hum, we made the Sun Bowl again." or "Another Gator Bowl. Big deal." I can just see Daugherty writing a column on how there are too many bowl games and UC is going to a boring game. And I can hear the Angry Guys snarking about El Paso or Birmingham. And it won't be a lot different than the Minter years. I really think they are going to have to go to a BCS bowl or two to charge that fanbase.

paintmered
10-25-2006, 11:24 PM
Boy, I dunno, paint. The Gator Bowl is about the only one out there that's worth a darn. Let's face it, if it isn't being played on or after New Years day, nobody really gives a hoot. I may be way off but I don't see a lot of UC folk heading to either Jacksonville or El Paso to watch a 7-4 or 8-3 team.

The bowl affiliation with the conferences is a problem too. Let me give you an example. Back in the 70s, Iowa had a horrible football program. They hired Hayden Fry and petty soon they started going to bowls, the first of which was the Rose Bowl. Now there weren't so many bowls back then so most of them had some panache to them. I believe they played in the Gator Bowl one year, Holiday Bowl another, Peach Bowl another year. They were going to different bowls every year with a trip to Pasadena thrown in there every few years. But in the 90s they started doing these conference tie ins with the bowls. Some of the other doormats of the Big 10 improves as well like Wisconsin and MSU and Purdue and even Northwestern. Plus they added Penn St. Iowa started getting mediocre. They would finish about 4th or 5th about every year and were obligated to go to the Sun Bowl or the Alamo Bowl. The first couple of years was OK but after that people lost interest because they were going to the same bowls every year. Nothing against San Antonio but my friends and I took to calling the Alamo bowl the Al-Lame-o Bowl. People like going to different places. If they don't make the BCS game, UC is going to be in the same situation. After a few years it will be, "Ho hum, we made the Sun Bowl again." or "Another Gator Bowl. Big deal." I can just see Daugherty writing a column on how there are too many bowl games and UC is going to a boring game. And I can hear the Angry Guys snarking about El Paso or Birmingham. And it won't be a lot different than the Minter years. I really think they are going to have to go to a BCS bowl or two to charge that fanbase.

Personally, I find that scenario quite appealing compared to the current situation. Face it, half the city doesn't know there's even major college football being played here. UC hasn't been to anything higher than a third-tier bowl game since I was born. A Sun Bowl birth would at least make people notice. Iowa doesn't have a problem getting fans to home games, do they? Of course not.

I do agree that UC fans aren't going to travel to see this team in anything less than a New Year's Bowl. But right now, the objective is to get people to travel to Nippert first so there are more than 15,000 there for nationally televised games.

Chip R
10-26-2006, 12:06 AM
Going to any bowl now is going to be better than the alternative to the fans and the team. But trust me, after a few years of going to the same old bowls it's going to get old. It'll be like UC hoops during the last few ears of the Huggins regime. During the Tony Yates era, 20 wins a year and just making the NCAAs would have been a dream come true. But after a Final 4 appearance, some Elite 8s and Sweet 16s not to mention all the CUSA championships and Kenyon Martin's senior year, just making the NCAAs wasn't that special anymore.

UC may not get to that Final 4 level and making bowl games will be great. But eventually they are going to have to get to the next level if they want to keep that support.

There are so many good things about UC football that they shouldn't have to be a perennial top 25 team in order to sell out Nippert and get some media attention. The tickets are inexpensive, it's a more family friendly atmosphere than a Bengals game. Nippert isn't exactly the Horseshoe but it has its charms. Local kids are there playing. It's all good. But the problem is that they are going to have to be a top 25 team and go to BCS games if they want the support they are looking for.

Cedric
10-26-2006, 01:09 AM
Going to any bowl now is going to be better than the alternative to the fans and the team. But trust me, after a few years of going to the same old bowls it's going to get old. It'll be like UC hoops during the last few ears of the Huggins regime. During the Tony Yates era, 20 wins a year and just making the NCAAs would have been a dream come true. But after a Final 4 appearance, some Elite 8s and Sweet 16s not to mention all the CUSA championships and Kenyon Martin's senior year, just making the NCAAs wasn't that special anymore.

UC may not get to that Final 4 level and making bowl games will be great. But eventually they are going to have to get to the next level if they want to keep that support.

There are so many good things about UC football that they shouldn't have to be a perennial top 25 team in order to sell out Nippert and get some media attention. The tickets are inexpensive, it's a more family friendly atmosphere than a Bengals game. Nippert isn't exactly the Horseshoe but it has its charms. Local kids are there playing. It's all good. But the problem is that they are going to have to be a top 25 team and go to BCS games if they want the support they are looking for.

And how do you win? With constant top 30 recruiting classes. That's just not possible at this school. The program has zero tradition and not much in terms of aesthetics either. It's getting better, but it's still not the best. There are just too many potential options for the type of recruit that UC must get. They lose too much second tier talent to Miami and other schools.

RedFanAlways1966
10-26-2006, 08:49 AM
I had a good friend who was a UC alumni and diehard basketball fan (during the Huggins era). He took me to a few UC basketball games about 10-12 years ago. He told me one time that I could go to a UC football game with him sometime if I was interested. I was sort of surprised when he told me that in order to have UC basketball season tickets he was also required by UC to buy football season tickets too. You could get football season tickets by themself, but you had to buy the football package in order to get the basketball package... take it or leave it. I cannot confirm it, but this friend was a real honest type.

Is this still the case at UC?

paintmered
10-26-2006, 09:03 AM
I had a good friend who was a UC alumni and diehard basketball fan (during the Huggins era). He took me to a few UC basketball games about 10-12 years ago. He told me one time that I could go to a UC football game with him sometime if I was interested. I was sort of surprised when he told me that in order to have UC basketball season tickets he was also required by UC to buy football season tickets too. You could get football season tickets by themself, but you had to buy the football package in order to get the basketball package... take it or leave it. I cannot confirm it, but this friend was a real honest type.

Is this still the case at UC?

Yep. That is still the policy as far as I know.

RedFanAlways1966
10-26-2006, 09:42 AM
Yep. That is still the policy as far as I know.

Thanks, paintmered.

I do not agree with this policy. It seems that when you "force" something upon someone, then they usually end up not liking it. I wonder how many diehard basketball fans end up blowing off the football tickets (or try reselling them for whatever they can get or give them away) and end up feeling "overcharged" for their loyal support of the hoops team? They might even feel negative towards the gridiron team b/c of the forced purchase.

I feel you should let football fans support the team. Do not "force" fans of other sports to buy into it. Some may support both, but let the paying customer decide and not be forced. Perhaps the admins. need to sit in a freshman Marketing 101 course?!?

Roy Tucker
10-26-2006, 10:56 AM
As a teen in Centerville, I grew up as a Univ. of Dayton basketball fan (Hank Finkel, Don May, et al). Got my undergrad degree at OSU so I became a Buckeye football fan (Rex Kern, Archie Griffin, et al).

I moved down to Cincinnati in '84. Slowly over time, my allegiance to UD basketball waned and I slowly warmed to UC hoops. Mostly because that was all that was in the paper and on TV. I knew UC had a football team, read the game stories in the paper, went to the odd game when someone gave me tickets, but didn't pay much other attention.

As my son went through HS, I noticed UC recruits pretty hard at all the local high schools. Athletically, yes, but they recuit the good academic kids as well. Plus there are some ties between the music programs at UC's CCM and Mason HS. As a fall-out, I started paying more attention to UC and UC football. I follow the games a little more closely now.

So my son is a freshman at UC this year. Lives on campus and is absolutely loving college life. I've taken him to tOSU games over the years (I get alumni tickets) so he has been exposed to the grand spectacle and paegent of OSU football. He goes to UC football games. He's said they play pretty decent football but it is just not the same.

My opinion is they seem to be on the right track with Mark Dantonio. He is building a good program and I think reaching a level of a team like Louisville is reachable. Paint's prediction of 8-9 wins next seems plausible. But if UC starts experiencing some success, they are going to have a hard time holding onto Dantonio.

UC has poured a lot of money into its Clifton campus and it is a nice place now. Nippert Stadium is a very nice facility in the middle of a modern urban campus. I think it will attract recruits.

But it will always be a problem getting fans to come to UC games on a regular basis. There are entirely too many sports options in the greater Cincinnati area. Reds, Bengals, Miami, OSU, UK, etc etc.

Compounding the problem is the whoring to ESPN. I realize the necessity of TV exposure, but if yoplay a game on a Sunday night against Southen Florida, you aren't going to get a crowd. If you play on a Friday night, you're up against high school football which is huge around here.

Redlegs23
10-26-2006, 11:13 AM
I agree with a lot of what's been said in these posts. Especially the ones that say the crowd is linked directly to the success they have on the field. UC basketball has a great history from the 60's, but obviously had some down times during the Yates era (which I was not around for). Then Huggs came along, two years later we're in the final four, and suddenly everybody loves UC basketball again. I think this shows that Cincy is a fair weather type of town.

In order to get that type of following for football I think there needs to be a big time bowl game involved. A 2nd tier bowl game will probably help attendance, but it won't push it over the edge. This success is obviously linked to recruiting, which is improving. In fact, just this morning we got a recruit who had offers from BC and Rutgers. Dantonio is moving this program in the right direction, but unfortunately many of the recruits are leaning in other directions after they come to campus and watch a game. Not so much because of the product on the field, but more because of the 10-15,000 attendance numbers and people just not caring about the program. Recruits just don't find that atmosphere too exciting when they can go somewhere else and have 60,000+ cheering for them every Saturday.

For those of you who haven't been to a game in a while, or possibly ever I encourage you to get down to a game this weekend. It's homecoming at UC and should be a good game against Syracuse.

vaticanplum
10-26-2006, 12:19 PM
In order to get that type of following for football I think there needs to be a big time bowl game involved. A 2nd tier bowl game will probably help attendance, but it won't push it over the edge. This success is obviously linked to recruiting, which is improving. In fact, just this morning we got a recruit who had offers from BC and Rutgers. Dantonio is moving this program in the right direction, but unfortunately many of the recruits are leaning in other directions after they come to campus and watch a game. Not so much because of the product on the field, but more because of the 10-15,000 attendance numbers and people just not caring about the program. Recruits just don't find that atmosphere too exciting when they can go somewhere else and have 60,000+ cheering for them every Saturday.

In my (fairly uneducated) opinion, UC will always have trouble recruiting in football simply due to the geographical competition of Ohio State, Michigan, Notre Dame et al; those football programs are never going away. But yes, it can improve.

Chip R
10-26-2006, 02:45 PM
And how do you win? With constant top 30 recruiting classes. That's just not possible at this school. The program has zero tradition and not much in terms of aesthetics either. It's getting better, but it's still not the best. There are just too many potential options for the type of recruit that UC must get. They lose too much second tier talent to Miami and other schools.


That's defeatism. Why even have a football program in Division 1 if you don' think you can compete against the best? Many programs were worse off than UC is or has been and they turned into powerhouses. Up until the 50s or 60s Florida St. was a women's college. The University of Miami was not a powerhouse until the mid 80s. Recently, Virginia Tech has become a perennial powerhouse. Before the 90s two programs that were laughing stocks were Kansas State and Wisconsin. Kansas St. was losing to 1-AA schools at home. Wisconsin was pathetic. But they hired Bill Snyder and Barry Alvarez and have gone to multiple BCS bowls. You think it's hard to recruit football players at UC, try getting them to come to Manhattan, Kansas. Madison Wisconsin is a pretty nice place from what I've been told but there was no real tradition there before Alvarez came on board. Kansas St. had to recruit against all the Texas schools, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St. and Nebraska. Wisconsin had to recruit against Michigan, Notre Dame, Ohio St. and Iowa. Yet they managed to turn things around.

It's also easier now to build up a program. And it's not like UC is in the shape a Wisconsin or a Kansas State were. With scholarship limits and national TV exposure, not to mention being in a BCS conference, you have an opportunity to get some kids to come to your school. Athletes want two things from a school. Playing time and TV exposure. UC can give a kid who is wanting to go to tOSU an opportunity to play within the first couple of years he is there. If he goes to tOSU, he may have to sit on the bench for 4-5 years. Perhaps by the time he's a senior he can start but until then, he's going to have to cool his heels on the bench. Maybe he'll get on special teams but unless he is super talented, he's not going to play regularly very soon. At UC, he may redshirt a year but, as paint said, look at all the sophomores that are playing for UC now. With all the sports channels that are out there, a team like UC is going to be on national or regional TV a lot - especially if they are good.

I don't know if this will happen at UC but it's not impossible.

paintmered
10-26-2006, 11:50 PM
And how do you win? With constant top 30 recruiting classes. That's just not possible at this school. The program has zero tradition and not much in terms of aesthetics either. It's getting better, but it's still not the best. There are just too many potential options for the type of recruit that UC must get. They lose too much second tier talent to Miami and other schools.

They lose too much second tier talent to Miami? Let's see here....

Right now Miami is 1-7 with their only win coming over hapless Buffalo (1-6). They were also beaten earlier this year by UC by two touchdowns. If that's the talent that UC is losing out on, then that's fine by me.

But I think you bring up an interesting point whether you realize it or not. There's a perception that UC is nothing more than a MAC program in a major conference. That's something that needs to change for the program to reach the next level.


By the way, if any of you are looking for something to do on Saturday..... UC vs. Syracuse, high noon. Tickets start at $10.

LoganBuck
10-27-2006, 01:00 AM
UC must carve a niche in recruiting football players. They must offer players early, and identify borderline academic recruits who are likely to make the grade. They can take some of the players that can't get into an Ohio State, Notre Dame, or Michigan. Dantonio has gotten better at doing this, but he needs more. Winning brings recruits more than anything else, UC should not be trying to compete with OSU, scUM, or ND for recruits, their competition should be the lower level B10 and SEC schools. These teams manage to recruit some great players, and with time UC can as well. Selling the opportunity to go to a bowl, and to be seen on ESPN, is a major advantage, over say an Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, etc. Recruits invision themselves playing in bowls, not sitting at home over Christmas break. The short term goal must be making bowl appearances a yearly occurance. Then the recruiting will pick up and after that you can begin discussing BCS bowls.

Cedric
10-27-2006, 11:15 AM
That's defeatism. Why even have a football program in Division 1 if you don' think you can compete against the best?

I guess they should keep trying. After attending school here and seeing the pecking order of UC football I have very little faith that it can become anything good. I'm not trying to be negative, it's just playing about tenth fiddle in this city for sports entertainment.

The problem with turning around this football program is nothing new, it's just never been even remotely successful and I don't see how it would now. There are even more options for people than before.

Cedric
10-27-2006, 11:17 AM
UC must carve a niche in recruiting football players. They must offer players early, and identify borderline academic recruits who are likely to make the grade. They can take some of the players that can't get into an Ohio State, Notre Dame, or Michigan. Dantonio has gotten better at doing this, but he needs more. Winning brings recruits more than anything else, UC should not be trying to compete with OSU, scUM, or ND for recruits, their competition should be the lower level B10 and SEC schools. These teams manage to recruit some great players, and with time UC can as well. Selling the opportunity to go to a bowl, and to be seen on ESPN, is a major advantage, over say an Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, etc. Recruits invision themselves playing in bowls, not sitting at home over Christmas break. The short term goal must be making bowl appearances a yearly occurance. Then the recruiting will pick up and after that you can begin discussing BCS bowls.

Indiana, Illinois, and even Northwestern are recruiting WELL above UC at this point. UC would never pull off a Jordan Mabin type unless he was an academic casualty. UC might be a Big East school, but they target the exact same kids that Miami does. They have to.

paintmered
11-12-2006, 11:49 PM
Bump.

I'm not sure how well communicated it has been, but the UC/Rutgers game has been moved to 7:45. Which means that "other game" can no longer be used as an excuse to stay home - especially since it will be shown on the Schott Stadium video board.

Ticket information: http://gobearcats.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/110906aad.html

vaticanplum
11-13-2006, 12:02 AM
I'm not sure how well communicated it has been, but the UC/Rutgers game has been moved to 7:45. Which means that "other game" can no longer be used as an excuse to stay home - especially since it will be shown on the Schott Stadium video board.

I'm going! And I don't even like football that much! :beerme:

Cedric
11-13-2006, 12:20 AM
I'm going! And I don't even like football that much! :beerme:

I'll walk over to the game depending on the Buckeyes outcome. I'm not gonna lie, I'll be a big baby and not leave the house if they somehow lose :)

Redlegs23
11-14-2006, 08:15 PM
I'll definitely be there. I've heard that there's only a couple of sections that have tickets left, so if you're going get your tickets soon. Also, I think this is the game that veterans can get in free. Let's get a good crowd in there and give this football program the support they deserve to pull of a big time upset! Ticket information is at www.gobearcats.com.

Tyler Durden
11-14-2006, 11:34 PM
Big weekend for football. If still lived in Cincinnati, I'd be at Nippert both Friday and Saturday night, rooting on the Bombers and Bearcats (rooting for the Wolverines in between).

wolfboy
11-15-2006, 11:15 AM
Big weekend for football. If still lived in Cincinnati, I'd be at Nippert both Friday and Saturday night, rooting on the Bombers and Bearcats (rooting for the Wolverines in between).

I'm ticked that I can't make the St. X game on Friday night.

Reds Freak
11-15-2006, 12:20 PM
Does anyone know what UC does as far as marketing their football team? I seem to remember in the past commercials asking "What else would you be doing on a Saturday? Raking your leaves? Come to UC Football games". Marketing in the short term with cute little gimmicks, activities, giveaways, entertainment are nice but you build a fan base with a more long term focus in mind.

I would think a well-coordinated, thought out marketing plan with long-term goals in mind would behoove the school. I'm sure they do this now, but it doesn't seem to be working.

vaticanplum
11-15-2006, 07:06 PM
Big weekend for football. If still lived in Cincinnati, I'd be at Nippert both Friday and Saturday night, rooting on the Bombers and Bearcats (rooting for the Wolverines in between).

My mother is going to both. She's a season ticket holder to both. She is also clearly insane.

One of her best friend's son plays...oh, crap...one of those important positions for X. Running back? Quarterback? one of those, I think. I cheer when I see him on the news. He's very speedy.

Tyler Durden
11-15-2006, 07:07 PM
Darius Ashley? Luca Romeo?

vaticanplum
11-15-2006, 07:24 PM
Luca Romeo?

My God, how did you know that? What position is that anyway?

I love Luca, but man that Darius kid is amazing. He's like two feet tall and always looks like he could singlehandedly take on any other team.

Tyler Durden
11-17-2006, 09:50 PM
Those are the two main running backs on the team. And being a native Cincinnatian, I am more interested in HS Football than I really should be.

Tony Cloninger
11-18-2006, 01:31 AM
The problem for the UC football program is ......who can remember any great player coming from there?

Greg Cook in 1968....when he led the nation in passing....that is about it.

paintmered
11-18-2006, 03:02 PM
UC installed collapsible field goals for today's game.

The administration is anticipating a storming of the field tonight. :)

cinredsfan2000
11-18-2006, 03:54 PM
Sorta off topic i guess but i mistakenly recieved a U.C t-shirt a coupla years ago actually ordered a REDS t-shirt. But figured why go through the hassle of returning it figure oh well i'll keep it well long story short i figured since i dont care for basketball on any level i might as well make the best of the situation and thus have sort of starting rooting for the bearcats football team . Not like the miami hurricanes football team have done much this season to get excited about .

paintmered
11-19-2006, 02:53 AM
The administration is anticipating a storming of the field tonight. :)

And the administration was right. For anyone who was thinking about going to the game and decided not to, you missed out on a great game and a great atmosphere. Rushing the field in my last home game as a student is a memory worth keeping.

BTW, UC had around 100 high school recruits at the game today. Hopefully tonight's dominating performance won some of the hearts and minds of those players.....and of Cincinnatians who made the choice to be there and witness it in person.

Cyclone792
11-19-2006, 02:58 AM
And the administration was right. For anyone who was thinking about going to the game and decided not to, you missed out on a great game and a great atmosphere. Rushing the field in my last home game as a student is a memory worth keeping.

BTW, UC had around 100 high school recruits at the game today. Hopefully tonight's dominating performance won some of the hearts and minds of those players.....and of Cincinnatians who made the choice to be there and witness it in person.

This was nothing short of an excellent win for the football program as a whole, IMO.

Given Rutgers unbeaten record coming into the game and all the national championship talk surrounding them, this was a game that had college football's attention throughout the nation. To win a game of this magnitude that had fans around the country tuning into is huge for the program altogether.

paintmered
11-19-2006, 11:54 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdukxMs6zck

Matt700wlw
11-19-2006, 11:55 AM
UC Football!

Call me impressed! They earned a lot of respect last night, not only from football fans, but also potential recruits

Reds Freak
11-19-2006, 12:20 PM
Not only was I impressed with the UC football team, I was astonished at the speed in which the fans rushed the field. I have never seen a field fill as quickly as that last night. As soon as the clock hit 0:00 it took about 5 seconds for the students to get out there. It was a swarm of black and red converging on the field.

vaticanplum
11-19-2006, 01:32 PM
I called my mom this morning to hear her thoughts and she answered the phone "Bearcats Central". :laugh: She was beside herself, said it was probably "the most exciting damn game I've ever been to." She rushed the field and said she hugged "about 12 Bearcats". She loves that team and said that in her mind it was the game of the day, even more than OSU-Mich because it's such an upset and UC is such a happy good team. She said this was the QB's first start ever?!?

I can't believe I didn't go. I'm a moron.

Chip R
11-19-2006, 03:03 PM
I called my mom this morning to hear her thoughts and she answered the phone "Bearcats Central". :laugh: She was beside herself, said it was probably "the most exciting damn game I've ever been to." She rushed the field and said she hugged "about 12 Bearcats". She loves that team and said that in her mind it was the game of the day, even more than OSU-Mich because it's such an upset and UC is such a happy good team. She said this was the QB's first start ever?!?

I can't believe I didn't go. I'm a moron.


I was there for the big win in 1999 against Wisconsin. You really missed out, VP.

This game is a big step for UC football. It will probably never become the phenomenon that UC hoops was for about 10 years there but it's a good step. They need to sustain it and need to look no farther than across the field for inspiration. If Rutgers can do it, so can UC.

vaticanplum
11-19-2006, 03:13 PM
I was there for the big win in 1999 against Wisconsin. You really missed out, VP.

That was exactly the game she compared it to. I have no idea what she's talking about, of course, except that it was a big game and probably an upset.

I was supposed to be getting mad work done this weekend, but all of these Reds moves have slowed that down considerably. Arrggghhh

Redlegs23
11-19-2006, 10:31 PM
That game was incredible. The entire night was incredible. The atmosphere was awesome. I've never had that much fun at a game before, including all the OSU games I've been to. Nippert really is a great setting for college football. As far as I'm concerned everyone in Cincinnati that decided to sit at home missed out on one incredible night.

paintmered
11-25-2006, 07:37 PM
Not sure if anyone noticed, but UC won their final game of the season on the road today.

7-5. Not bad at all for a sophomore-laden team picked to win only 3 or 4 games this preseason. :)

LoganBuck
11-25-2006, 11:05 PM
UC had a good year considering that they had the toughest strength of schedule in the country, and a young team. I will be rooting hard for them in their bowl game, and I hope they can hold on to Mark Dantonio, but UC is going to have to up his pay.

Chip R
11-26-2006, 12:59 AM
I heard Sparty may be looking at Dantonio.

BuckeyeRed27
11-26-2006, 04:12 AM
Great season by the Bearcats. They played everybody tough. Hope they can bulid next year and get into the top of the Big East.

Redlegs23
11-26-2006, 08:10 PM
According to Lance's blog, Mich. St. now has Dantonio as their #1 candidate. Terrible news. Hopefully he's committed to staying at UC and building the program. He's paid the 3rd lowest salary for any BCS school though, so that will have to change to keep him.

Caveat Emperor
11-26-2006, 08:58 PM
According to Lance's blog, Mich. St. now has Dantonio as their #1 candidate. Terrible news. Hopefully he's committed to staying at UC and building the program. He's paid the 3rd lowest salary for any BCS school though, so that will have to change to keep him.

Word has it now that UC has given Dantonio permission to talk with Sparty, and he's up there in EL tonight speaking to the AD.

If I was a betting man, I'd say 90% that Dantonio leaves. There is simply no way, no how that the current chiefs at UC will pay the kind of coin that is required to keep him with the program

Plus, Sparty is just a better job -- better conference, and at a school where you don't have to give tickets away to get 27,000 fans to show up for a nationally televised game.

LoganBuck
11-26-2006, 10:03 PM
Too bad, if all this is true. Michigan State is the better job, but I would pass if I was Dantonio, Michigan State is at best the fourth best job available in the BigTen. Remember Marvin Lewis turned them down repeatedly before he came to Cincinnati. Michigan State has decent facilities and will undoubtably give Dantonio at least a millon dollars raise. I see that job as a graveyard. Buyer beware. If he were to put together a big year next year, in the Big East he may have better opportunities to choose from.

I believe that UC is really screwed in this situation, because of the Huggins fiasco. They had to buy him out for a boatload of cash, pay Andy Kennedy, buyout and pay Mick Cronin, plus attendance dropped last year, and is pitiful this year for basketball, as well as the drop in donations. The Basketball program had been carrying the athletic department. The BigEast tie ins do bring in more cash and they figure to get over $2.5 million in bowl payouts, etc. I doubt that they can come close to matching MSU for compensation.

paintmered
11-26-2006, 10:25 PM
UC needs to do what it takes to keep Dantonio in Clifton for a very long time.

Just when the football program finally begins gaining positive momentum, they might lose their coach. :(

Reds4Life
11-26-2006, 10:43 PM
UC needs to do what it takes to keep Dantonio in Clifton for a very long time.

Just when the football program finally begins gaining positive momentum, they might lose their coach. :(

Dantonio is gone, expect a presser at MSU tomorrow naming him head coach.

UC needs to step up and hire a big name coach if they really want to move this program forward. If they hire another nobody everything that has been gained over the last few seasons could end up down the drain.

Given the current administrations attitude toward athletics, and the fact Nancy has ruined the basketball money machine, I'm sure we'll hire whoever is willing to work for the cheapest. Dantonio was one of the worst paid BCS coaches in all of college football, I'm sure his replacement won't do much better.

Cedric
11-26-2006, 11:33 PM
Great decision by Dantonio. Pretty easy I would say. He has gotten no support here and the Big Ten is the best conference in America.

Redlegs23
11-26-2006, 11:37 PM
Terrible news for the UC program. Just when everyone started getting excited about UC football.

DoogMinAmo
11-27-2006, 12:42 AM
C. Trent Rosecrans refuses to call it a done deal on his blog, and until he does I am still holding out hope that Dantonio is not leaving. If it is true, then I reiterate what Redlegs23 says, word for word.

RedFanAlways1966
11-27-2006, 08:36 AM
Dantonio is gone, expect a presser at MSU tomorrow naming him head coach.

Given the current administrations attitude toward athletics, and the fact Nancy has ruined the basketball money machine, I'm sure we'll hire whoever is willing to work for the cheapest. Dantonio was one of the worst paid BCS coaches in all of college football, I'm sure his replacement won't do much better.

WLW is reporting that at MSU Dantonio will make 3X the salary that he is getting w/ UC.

LoganBuck
11-27-2006, 08:39 AM
If it is true they should go right back up the road and grab Jim Heacock, at OSU. Ohio State is still running the same defense from when Dantonio was there and the philosophy would be the same. Rumors have circulated all year that Heacock would probably move into a top spot somewhere else after this season.

It my be a little premature, but Jim Tressel does have a young budding star of a coaching candidate, in Luke Fickell the co-defensive coordinator but he is a little young. He is said to be the second best recruiter at Ohio State behind Tressel himself. If UC wants to grab a young coach, he would a good choice as well. He was there when Dantonio was as well.

paintmered
11-27-2006, 10:31 AM
According to C. Trent's blog, UC matched MSU's offer.

He didn't bail because of the money, he bailed because he got absolutely no support from the area.

Reds Fanatic
11-27-2006, 10:55 AM
Dantonio is getting a 5 year contract for $1.1 million a year with a $200,000 signing bonus and other incentives where he can make even more.

max venable
11-27-2006, 11:54 AM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061127/SPT0101/611270346/1062/SPT It's official. Dantonio to MSU.

HotCorner
11-27-2006, 02:46 PM
Go get Central Michigan's Brian Kelly!

beb30
11-27-2006, 02:54 PM
This is why UC will never be a football program. We get coaches that actually have talent, but then they leave for bigger and better schools.

Chip R
11-27-2006, 03:01 PM
David Shula had a turn with the Bengals so perhaps little brother could take the UC gig. ;)

Roy Tucker
11-27-2006, 03:08 PM
Maybe UC should have lost its last few games. A devastating blow to a program that appeared like it may juuuuust be turning the corner.

They need to rapidly fill the slot with an up-and-coming coach to keep the momentum going. Otherwise, UC will sink back to its same old-same old ne'er do well status.

redsfan30
11-27-2006, 03:27 PM
Huge loss for UC. Dantonio had that program 100% on the rise and was just a few years from I think being a force in the Big East.

dabvu2498
11-27-2006, 04:55 PM
Go get Central Michigan's Brian Kelly!

Already gotten.


Iowa State: Will announce the signing of Central Michigan coach Brian Kelly this evening

Michigan State: Has agreed to terms with Cincinnati's Mark Dantonio and will announce this week.

Alabama: South Florida's Jim Leavitt will be the top candidate on the list. Forget Steve Spurrier going to Tuscaloosa, or Miami for that matter too.

Arizona State: Former Colorado coach Gary Barnett has emerged as a posisble surprise candidate. Texas Tech coach Mike Leach will interview for this one. Leach is ready to leave Lubbock and should emerge some place else. There is no clear cut favorite at the moment.

North Carolina State: Tennessee Titan offensive coordinator Norm Chow may have a shot at this job.

Miami: The hot news was that Houston Nutt was high on the list, but Nutt says he isn't interested. Rutgers Greg Schiano claims he will stay in New Jersey (where he is from). Tulsa's Dave Kragthorpe and South Florida's Jim Leavitt will be on the list. There is a remote chance that Dolphins' head coach Nick Saban might have interest. TTU's Leach could eventually wind up as the eventual hire here, if Arizona State doesn't grab him first.

Cincinnati: With the apparent loss of Dantonio, this frees up a school on the rise opening in the Big East. This is an opportunity for an NFL coach to resurrect his career, ala Pete Carroll, Al Groh, etc. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Hal Mumme got a call.

Wake Forest's Jim Grobe will end up on somebody's short list, and West Virginia's Rich Rodriguez could desire to talk with somebody about one of the job openings.

http://mb14.scout.com/fvanderbiltfrm1.showMessage?topicID=24028.topic

Caveat Emperor
11-27-2006, 06:40 PM
This is why UC will never be a football program. We get coaches that actually have talent, but then they leave for bigger and better schools.

That's really an excuse that a program like UC shouldn't be allowed to make. They're in what is, allegedly, a BCS conference. A coaching job at UC should be a destination job, not a stepping-stone job to a bigger program. We're not talking about a MAC school or a C-USA school -- this is supposed to be big-time college football.

All the ingredients should be there for UC to be successful. Hell, the football program even got a break when Huggins and his larger-than-life basketball program went with him. This is a city where you can't sneeze at a workplace without bumping into someone that either went to UC or sent a kid to UC, yet they have to run 2-for-1 specials and count on people like me (college football fan with no tie to UC) to show and watch games. I know there's competition for sports dollars around here with the Reds, Bengals and Xavier Basketball, but not so much so that UC should be forced to beg and whine for 27,000 fans to come out and watch a national TV game vs. an unbeaten opponent in November.

If the reason Dantonio left is because Michigan State is simply a better job (that assuming that UC matched the offer and he still left) then it's time for everyone to sit down and figure out why Clifton isn't an attractive place to coach and go about fixing that -- because finding good coaches is too damn tough and too big a crap chute to repeat frequently. This is big time, and if UC wants to be big time, it's time for the alumni and students to put up and start treating their football program like something they give a damn about as opposed to something to do on a sunny day when they're bored.

Chip R
11-27-2006, 07:58 PM
That's really an excuse that a program like UC shouldn't be allowed to make. They're in what is, allegedly, a BCS conference. A coaching job at UC should be a destination job, not a stepping-stone job to a bigger program. We're not talking about a MAC school or a C-USA school -- this is supposed to be big-time college football.

It is but it isn't. Just being in a BCS conference doesn't make UC a big time program any more than being in the Big 10 or SEC makes Indiana or Vanderbilt big time. There are decades of tradition in programs like tOSU, MSU, LSU, Notre
Dame, etc that fans and alumni can talk about like it happened last week. Even a school like Illinois can talk about Red Grange and Bob Zuppke and Dick Butkus. ABout all UC people can talk about is the win over Wisconsin in 99. Most don't know or don't care that a guy like Sid Gillman coached here.


All the ingredients should be there for UC to be successful. Hell, the football program even got a break when Huggins and his larger-than-life basketball program went with him. This is a city where you can't sneeze at a workplace without bumping into someone that either went to UC or sent a kid to UC, yet they have to run 2-for-1 specials and count on people like me (college football fan with no tie to UC) to show and watch games. I know there's competition for sports dollars around here with the Reds, Bengals and Xavier Basketball, but not so much so that UC should be forced to beg and whine for 27,000 fans to come out and watch a national TV game vs. an unbeaten opponent in November.

You're right again. But you can't make people come to the games if they don't want to. Obviously giving tickets away doesn't help much. If people don't believe in the product, you can't give it to them. There just isn't the passion here for UC football as there is for UC hoops. When Huggins was here pre-Zimpher and the program was at it's peak, there was talk about every year about him going to the NBA or another college job. Whenever that happened it was the talk of the town. Newspapers, radios, TVs, internet sites would be talking about it all the time. And if he had left, you can bet there would have been a lot of really upset people out there at him for turning his back on UC. Now Dantonio goes to Sparty, most people are saying it's a good career move for him - which it is. There is very little anger and resentment. That tells me that people don't care that much about the program.


If the reason Dantonio left is because Michigan State is simply a better job (that assuming that UC matched the offer and he still left) then it's time for everyone to sit down and figure out why Clifton isn't an attractive place to coach and go about fixing that -- because finding good coaches is too damn tough and too big a crap chute to repeat frequently. This is big time, and if UC wants to be big time, it's time for the alumni and students to put up and start treating their football program like something they give a damn about as opposed to something to do on a sunny day when they're bored.

Either that or downsize. If UC wants to keep up with the Joneses, they are in for a struggle. And it may be a struggle they can't win. I'm not saying they can't have a nice program here and be competitive in the Big East but the Big 10 schools and the SEC schools they are competing against are always going to be upgrading. You have 3 teams in the Big 10 that have stadiums that seat over 100,000 people. You have 2 in the SEC that are over 100,000. And they fill those stadiums each week. If they want an indoor facility or a better weight room or a new playing surface or more seats in the stadium, it's no big deal. Alumni and businesses are happy to donate. I know UC has upgraded their facilities but they can't do it every year and pay their coaches the going rate. Dantonio said it best. He said Sparty has 80k people in the stands every week screaming their heads off. They play the best teams in the nation and are on TV all the time. He said that the state is split right down the middle between Sparty and UM. That last statement may be hyperbole but even if it is, you have 30-40% of a state like Michigan who are Sparty fans. You don't even have 30-40% of a city that are UC fans. So why beat your head against the wall? If you just want to collect the TV and Bowl money from the Big East, that's fine. But you are never, ever going to be on a par with a school like MSU much less tOSU.

Cedric
11-27-2006, 08:06 PM
UC is nowhere near at the level of Michigan State. It would take years and years of winning for that to happen.

Michigan State was the premier school in Michigan in the 50's and all the way to like 69. They have tradition, fan support, and a much better stadium. It's just not a good comparison. UC in my opinion will not ever have sustained success with football. Football is a sport based on tradition and fan support and UC has neither.

Caveat Emperor
11-27-2006, 08:46 PM
There are decades of tradition in programs like tOSU, MSU, LSU, Notre Dame, etc that fans and alumni can talk about like it happened last week. Even a school like Illinois can talk about Red Grange and Bob Zuppke and Dick Butkus. ABout all UC people can talk about is the win over Wisconsin in 99. Most don't know or don't care that a guy like Sid Gillman coached here.

This inferiority complex bothers the hell out of me. It's a "woe is me, I'll never be as great as THE Ohio State University or Notre Dame, so why should I even try" song and dance that is used as an excuse. For teams not in a BCS conference (like my own whining alma mater, Tulane), the song and dance is "we're not in a BCS conference, how can we compete?" Well, now even for teams in a BCS conference the song and dance is "we're not a traditional football powerhouse, how can we compete?"

Don't have a 100,000 seat stadium? Neither do the Oregon Ducks, but they somehow manage to make Autzen Stadium the loudest place on the planet once a week in the fall. Don't have a storied football tradition? Neither did the Virginia Tech Hokies, but they somehow managed to make it to a national title game and carve out a nice program for themselves with a hot young recruit named Michael Vick.

It takes alumni support and a commitment from the university to playing winning football. Winning puts you in big TV games, gets you into big bowl games, and into the homes of top recruits. Alumni support sells your stadium out and gets people excited about your product. UC could do both -- they could go out this week and find themselves a top-flight coach, pay him what he's worth and then go aggressively sell the football program to their alumni base. Lean on the big time alums to pony up for season tickets and make UC football the place for Cincinnatians to be seen on the weekends.

Or -- just roll over and die for the traditional powerhouses. That's what they want, anyway: to find a way to remind you that no matter what you do, what conference you join, you're still on the outside looking in compared to them. They belong in the big game, not you. They deserve the top talent each year, not you. If I were a UC alum, I know I'd be crowing loudly for the former.

Cedric
11-27-2006, 09:03 PM
This inferiority complex bothers the hell out of me. It's a "woe is me, I'll never be as great as THE Ohio State University or Notre Dame, so why should I even try" song and dance that is used as an excuse. For teams not in a BCS conference (like my own whining alma mater, Tulane), the song and dance is "we're not in a BCS conference, how can we compete?" Well, now even for teams in a BCS conference the song and dance is "we're not a traditional football powerhouse, how can we compete?"

Don't have a 100,000 seat stadium? Neither do the Oregon Ducks, but they somehow manage to make Autzen Stadium the loudest place on the planet once a week in the fall. Don't have a storied football tradition? Neither did the Virginia Tech Hokies, but they somehow managed to make it to a national title game and carve out a nice program for themselves with a hot young recruit named Michael Vick.

It takes alumni support and a commitment from the university to playing winning football. Winning puts you in big TV games, gets you into big bowl games, and into the homes of top recruits. Alumni support sells your stadium out and gets people excited about your product. UC could do both -- they could go out this week and find themselves a top-flight coach, pay him what he's worth and then go aggressively sell the football program to their alumni base. Lean on the big time alums to pony up for season tickets and make UC football the place for Cincinnatians to be seen on the weekends.

Or -- just roll over and die for the traditional powerhouses. That's what they want, anyway: to find a way to remind you that no matter what you do, what conference you join, you're still on the outside looking in compared to them. They belong in the big game, not you. They deserve the top talent each year, not you. If I were a UC alum, I know I'd be crowing loudly for the former.

Virginia Tech is one of the only games in town. Not much in terms of pro teams and Virginia was pretty average for years. UC football is about fifth in line at this point. Add in no tradition and it's a bad mix.

paintmered
11-27-2006, 09:43 PM
There is very little anger and resentment. That tells me that people don't care that much about the program.

Head over to any of the UC boards like BCI. There's PLENTY of anger and resentment right now. Granted, the folks there are in the small minority of hardcore supporters. But the fact remains, there are people out there who feel used, abused and want to punch Dantanio in the face if given the chance. Especially since UC put an offer on the table to match the financial terms of MSU.

Cedric
11-27-2006, 10:56 PM
Head over to any of the UC boards like BCI. There's PLENTY of anger and resentment right now. Granted, the folks there are in the small minority of hardcore supporters. But the fact remains, there are people out there who feel used, abused and want to punch Dantanio in the face if given the chance. Especially since UC put an offer on the table to match the financial terms of MSU.

Then they are naive, IMO. Michigan State and UC aren't even close on the college football spectrum.

He had a history at Michigan State and he's going to get fan support. It's just an obvious better job.

paintmered
11-27-2006, 11:07 PM
Then they are naive, IMO. Michigan State and UC aren't even close on the college football spectrum.

He had a history at Michigan State and he's going to get fan support. It's just an obvious better job.

If n better job is finishing 5-7 every year and 5-6th in the Big Ten, then I am sorely overestimating this 7-5 team that played the 2nd toughest schedule in the country. Is the Big East not sending at least one team (possibly two teams) to a BCS game this year? John L. Smith was supposedly the savior of that program. He couldn't last a handful of seasons in East Lansing. That program has been more of a revolving door for coaches than UC.

You are a UC grad. It's people like you that want to write off the program before they are given a chance to begin. Ever stop and think that it's your kind of attitude towards the program that allows these things to happen? Sure, complain about the lack of support all the while you refuse to give your support. Your defeatist attitude disgusts me.

By the way, if you want to support a man who told his team two weeks ago he was staying, then allowed them to find out by watching it on Sportscenter, by all means go ahead.....


Dantonio refused comment until after speaking to his players and had not returned a phone call at press time.
“It makes you feel (resentful) knowing that Cincinnati matched the offer and he still chose to leave,” said senior safety Dominic Ross, a team captain. “But it’s a business. We tend to forget that because we build such close relationships with the coaches, but it’s their job. We feel like we’re out there playing football with our friends, but it is a job for them and these things happen.”
UC junior linebacker Anthony Williams said “about half the team” gathered in a UC dorm at 2 a.m. Monday morning to watch ESPN, which had reported Dantonio’s departure.
“Finding out like that is what hurts, turning on ESPN and seeing Coach Dantonio was going to Michigan State,” Daniels said.“He addressed it two weeks ago. It happened right after we got two big wins. It makes us think if we would have lost, maybe he’d still be at Cincinnati.” (from C. Trent's Cincy Post blog)

Redlegs23
11-27-2006, 11:11 PM
Then they are naive, IMO. Michigan State and UC aren't even close on the college football spectrum.

He had a history at Michigan State and he's going to get fan support. It's just an obvious better job.

I wouldn't say they (we) are naive, I'd say we feel betrayed since Dantonio said numerous times that he's not interested in any other jobs, and he's committed to staying at UC and building the program. I realize that there's more fan support and more money at Michigan State, but don't say you have no interest in other jobs if you do. That's what most fans are mad about, that he said one thing and did another. I talked to a couple of the players today and they are really mad about this also, even more than the fans.

Whoever said the fans don't really care about this you're wrong. If you listened to 1530 today, or if you visit the www.ncaabbs.com or BCI boards you'll see how the fans feel. I realize that fan support for UC football is not good, but I was very excited about the direction it was going with the success this season. Fans were starting to take notice, and recruits were as well. As a fan that has waited for years for UC football to "make it" I'm dissapointed because I feel like we came so close, and now the program takes a huge punch in the gut with Dantonio leaving.

Cedric
11-27-2006, 11:17 PM
If an better job is finishing 5-7 every year and 5-6th in the Big Ten, then I am sorely overestimating this 7-5 team that played the 2nd toughest schedule in the country. Is the Big East not sending at one team (possibly two teams) to a BCS game this year? John L. Smith was supposedly the savior of that program. He couldn't last a handful of seasons in East Lansing. That program has been more of a revolving door for coaches than UC.

You are a UC grad. It's people like you that want to write off the program before they are given a chance to begin. Ever stop and think that it's your kind of attitude towards the program that allows these things to happen? Sure, complain about the lack of support all the while you refuse to give your support. Your defeatist attitude disgusts me.

By the way, if you want to support a man who told his team two weeks ago he was staying, then allowed them to find out by watching it on Sportscenter, by all means go ahead.....

I just think it's realistic. UC just doesn't have the tradition or the fan support to compete with Michigan State. You can't just use one year and justify that as a reason someone wouldn't go home.

I don't think I'm being hateful or overly cynical in saying these things. I bet 9 out of ten unbiased observers would agree about Michigan State being a better job than UC.

Caveat Emperor
11-27-2006, 11:30 PM
I just think it's realistic. UC just doesn't have the tradition or the fan support to compete with Michigan State.

UC football could have both of those things if their alums and students would stop moaning about how they don't have tradition and fan support for 15 minutes and worked to make things better...

The logic is pure defeatism -- at some point, someone has to say "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired" and move the program forward.

Cedric
11-27-2006, 11:38 PM
Not if most people just don't care. It's just a fact, most alums are Ohio State fans or pro fans. It's done and gone with this generation.

Hopefully they can hire some flashy O coordinator and prove me wrong. I'd like to see UC have a solid fan base.

Redlegs23
11-27-2006, 11:43 PM
Not if most people just don't care. It's just a fact, most alums are Ohio State fans or pro fans. It's done and gone with this generation.

Something tells me that a couple of winning seasons and a big bowl game might turn some of these Ohio State "fans" into UC fans though. Support for the basketball program was nothing until Huggs came and took us to the final four. Suddenly everyone wants to be a UC basketball fan. As much as I hate to admit it, Cincinnati does have a lot of fair weather fans.

Chip R
11-28-2006, 02:56 PM
This inferiority complex bothers the hell out of me. It's a "woe is me, I'll never be as great as THE Ohio State University or Notre Dame, so why should I even try" song and dance that is used as an excuse. For teams not in a BCS conference (like my own whining alma mater, Tulane), the song and dance is "we're not in a BCS conference, how can we compete?" Well, now even for teams in a BCS conference the song and dance is "we're not a traditional football powerhouse, how can we compete?"

Don't have a 100,000 seat stadium? Neither do the Oregon Ducks, but they somehow manage to make Autzen Stadium the loudest place on the planet once a week in the fall. Don't have a storied football tradition? Neither did the Virginia Tech Hokies, but they somehow managed to make it to a national title game and carve out a nice program for themselves with a hot young recruit named Michael Vick.

It takes alumni support and a commitment from the university to playing winning football. Winning puts you in big TV games, gets you into big bowl games, and into the homes of top recruits. Alumni support sells your stadium out and gets people excited about your product. UC could do both -- they could go out this week and find themselves a top-flight coach, pay him what he's worth and then go aggressively sell the football program to their alumni base. Lean on the big time alums to pony up for season tickets and make UC football the place for Cincinnatians to be seen on the weekends.

Or -- just roll over and die for the traditional powerhouses. That's what they want, anyway: to find a way to remind you that no matter what you do, what conference you join, you're still on the outside looking in compared to them. They belong in the big game, not you. They deserve the top talent each year, not you. If I were a UC alum, I know I'd be crowing loudly for the former.

I'm not saying they can't have a good program. But it takes more than money and marketing to make a program big-time. It takes tradition and a dedicated fan base that is going to support the team whether they go 11-0 or 0-11. How many bowl games has UC gone to in their history? How many All-Americans have they had? How many players have gone on to the NFL? There are only so many big time programs. Off the very top of my head I figure USC, Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, Alabama, tOSU, Florida St., and Miami. FSU and Miami have been pretty much the only ones in the last 20-30 years who have broken into this elite group. Teams like Va Tech, LSU, Iowa, Louisville, West Virginia, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia are excellent programs but they will probably never break into that elite group. And there's no shame in that. They are all that they can be. I think that's a level UC could have achieved if Dantonio stayed and could depending on the new coach. Getting a top flight coach and getting him to stay is easier said than done. Who are you going to get?

Cedric
11-28-2006, 02:57 PM
I'm not saying they can't have a good program. But it takes more than money and marketing to make a program big-time. It takes tradition and a dedicated fan base that is going to support the team whether they go 11-0 or 0-11. How many bowl games has UC gone to in their history? How many All-Americans have they had? How many players have gone on to the NFL? There are only so many big time programs. Off the very top of my head I figure USC, Notre Dame, Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan, Alabama, tOSU, Florida St., and Miami. FSU and Miami have been pretty much the only ones in the last 20-30 years who have broken into this elite group. Teams like Va Tech, LSU, Iowa, Louisville, West Virginia, Florida, Tennessee, Georgia are excellent programs but they will probably never break into that elite group. And there's no shame in that. They are all that they can be. I think that's a level UC could have achieved if Dantonio stayed and could depending on the new coach. Getting a top flight coach and getting him to stay is easier said than done. Who are you going to get?

Completely agree. UC is about fifth fiddle in this neighborhood. Being that far down the totem pole with no tradition and about zero dedicated fans isn't gonna work out.

I said that earlier in a thread and you called me a defeatist though :)

Chip R
11-28-2006, 03:03 PM
Completely agree. UC is about fifth fiddle in this neighborhood. Being that far down the totem pole with no tradition and about zero dedicated fans isn't gonna work out.

I said that earlier in a thread and you called me a defeatist though :)


I said you were a defeatist because you said they can never be a really good program. I think they can but not on the level of the traditional powerhouses. I think they have a Va Tech level. But is it worth it? Building a basketball program is much easier than building a football program. You don't have as many scholarships to give and you don't have as large of an arena to fill. One player can make a difference. It's tougher in football.

Cedric
11-28-2006, 03:06 PM
I said you were a defeatist because you said they can never be a really good program. I think they can but not on the level of the traditional powerhouses. I think they have a Va Tech level. But is it worth it? Building a basketball program is much easier than building a football program. You don't have as many scholarships to give and you don't have as large of an arena to fill. One player can make a difference. It's tougher in football.

I meant a stable, constant program. It would be very hard to produce that here.

I don't think Virginia Tech is a good comparison though. No pro football really in the area and the other in state school isn't near at the Ohio State level. People in this area that love college football are going to go with the dominant winner. Parents and kids grow up in this area with a love and respect for Ohio State. It's quite obvious that even in Clifton, Ohio State is the favorite.