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View Full Version : What about LaRue for Brad Lidge?



SultanOfSwing
10-26-2006, 05:49 PM
What if the Reds try to acquire Brad Lidge? LaRue certainly fits the Astros needs and is from Texas and may be happier there. Lidge may just need a change of scenery. It would be trading a bad contract with a down 2006 season for the same thing, but filling the other team's need.

I am not sure how much the Astros have soured on Lidge, nor do I know if other teams have much interest. Many reports say he now has serious control problems. Others say a different situation would turn it all around for him. Depending on the situation and the scouting reports I might offer:

Jason LaRue
$1m

for

Brad Lidge

or

Jason LaRue
Brian Shackelford
B- Prospect
$1m

for

Brad Lidge

What do you think? Is it worth the risk? Is that too much? Not enough?

joshnky
10-26-2006, 05:59 PM
LaRue and Shack for Lidge might be realistic. I wouldn't give them anything more than that.

TeamSelig
10-26-2006, 06:03 PM
I would definitely do it, but I don't think they would. Guess it would be depending on the prospect, and I don't know who i'd be willing to trade for him...

BEETTLEBUG
10-26-2006, 06:06 PM
I say try LaRue for Lidge if that don't work offer LaRue and Shackelford for Lidge no more.

Highlifeman21
10-26-2006, 06:28 PM
LaRue and Ausmus.... a tandem of no stick no wheels catchers.

It's a GM's wet dream.

camisadelgolf
10-26-2006, 06:31 PM
Personally, I'd be willing to offer a lot more than that for Brad Lidge. But for starters, I'd try LaRue, Belisle, and maybe a Ray Olmedo/Anderson Machado-type player?

RedsManRick
10-26-2006, 06:35 PM
I seriously doubt LaRue would be enough, but I think Lidge would be a perfect fit in terms of stuff. His BABIP has been quite high the last two years, while simultaniously his GB% has jumped and LD% has dove, suggesting his struggles have been as much about luck as anything else. He still struck out 12.5/9 which is insane. I'd gladly trade LaRue and change for him. However, if he is available, I'm guessing the 'stros could get a much better return than that.

TeamSelig
10-26-2006, 06:35 PM
Why would they do that though?

Shack is nothing more than a LH specialist... overall not a very good pitcher so I'm not sure how adding him would help out a whole lot?

Giving up one of your three catchers that has a high salary and an inexperienced LH specialist isn't really giving a whole lot for a former lights out closer. Not sure what is wrong with Lidge, but I think he still has value, he's pretty young still isn't he?

blumj
10-26-2006, 06:47 PM
It does kind of crack me up. Everyone is just dying to unload LaRue, so let's offer him for Lidge. Go to a Red Sox board, and everyone's dying to get rid of Coco Crisp, so let's offer him for Lidge. Go to a NYY board, and everyone's dying to get rid of Gary Sheffield, so let's offer him for Lidge. All of a sudden, Brad Lidge has gone from one of the most valuable properties in baseball in the eyes of most fans, to the guy you offer everything you want to dump for. I don't know who all the Dodgers fans and Rangers fans want to dump, but I'll go out on a limb and guess they whoever it is, they want to offer him for Lidge.

Krusty
10-26-2006, 06:47 PM
Houston would never do it.

Slyder
10-26-2006, 07:29 PM
Why would they do that though?

Shack is nothing more than a LH specialist... overall not a very good pitcher so I'm not sure how adding him would help out a whole lot?

Giving up one of your three catchers that has a high salary and an inexperienced LH specialist isn't really giving a whole lot for a former lights out closer. Not sure what is wrong with Lidge, but I think he still has value, he's pretty young still isn't he?

Do I need to dig up Lidge's numbers last year up again? LaRue was bad but he never got much of a chance to get going, Lidge blew with plenty of chances to get going. I wouldnt offer up anything really good but LaRue would be expendable.

Id try something like Larue, Shack, and a C spect for Lidge.

Handofdeath
10-26-2006, 07:35 PM
LaRue and Ausmus.... a tandem of no stick no wheels catchers.

It's a GM's wet dream.

Actually in '95 Ausmus stole 16 bases. From 1997-2000 he stole at least 10 bases every season. Of course now he's a 37 year old catcher...

SultanOfSwing
10-27-2006, 01:36 PM
Why would they do that though?

Shack is nothing more than a LH specialist... overall not a very good pitcher so I'm not sure how adding him would help out a whole lot?

Giving up one of your three catchers that has a high salary and an inexperienced LH specialist isn't really giving a whole lot for a former lights out closer. Not sure what is wrong with Lidge, but I think he still has value, he's pretty young still isn't he?
Shack would fill a need. The Astros have one LH in the bullpen (Trevor Miller). Shack is great as a LOOGY and very cheap. IMO, he fits the Astros perfectly.

LaRue seems to be coveted by the Astros (at least many of their fans), they see him as a younger Brad Ausmus with better offense I guess. LaRue makes sense because Lidge is making 4m+ (I'm not sure what he will receive in arb). As you said, "former lights closer," I think that is the key. Lidge is still a risk.

At 30 years old, I don't really consider Lidge young. He isn't old and over the hill, but he certainly isn't young.

SultanOfSwing
10-27-2006, 01:41 PM
It does kind of crack me up. Everyone is just dying to unload LaRue, so let's offer him for Lidge. Go to a Red Sox board, and everyone's dying to get rid of Coco Crisp, so let's offer him for Lidge. Go to a NYY board, and everyone's dying to get rid of Gary Sheffield, so let's offer him for Lidge. All of a sudden, Brad Lidge has gone from one of the most valuable properties in baseball in the eyes of most fans, to the guy you offer everything you want to dump for. I don't know who all the Dodgers fans and Rangers fans want to dump, but I'll go out on a limb and guess they whoever it is, they want to offer him for Lidge.
I personally wouldn't want to "dump" LaRue. However, I think this deal may work because of salaries and circumstances. Just my opinion.

BTW, Astros fans seem willing to "dump" Lidge for other teams garbage. I am sure they would jump at Crisp or Sheffield, but I don't see either of those happening.

camisadelgolf
10-27-2006, 01:42 PM
I'd give up a lot more than LaRue, Shack, Olmedo, and one million dollars for Lidge.

SultanOfSwing
10-27-2006, 01:45 PM
I'd give up a lot more than LaRue, Shack, Olmedo, and one million dollars for Lidge.
Why?!!!

Lidge may turn out to be a gem, but he could also be a major bust worse than Braden Looper. If you notice even his 2005 was a regression (albeit a very good one) and he is 30 years old.

Rex Argos
10-27-2006, 01:47 PM
1. How would Houston benefit by getting Larue? They wouldn't, because they already have Ausmus. Ausmus doesn't hit much, but he's a great defensive catcher and field general. I'd like to also think that he's played a role in the success of their pitching staff.

2. Regardless of Lidge's troubles in 2006, I think most of us would love to have him on our team. I think Houston would be nuts to give up on him. But...if they were to give up on him, we'd be glad to take a chance.

Red Leader
10-27-2006, 01:55 PM
One of the only teams I could see being interested in LaRue would be Philadelphia.

Not sure what the Phils have that I'd be interested in besides Gavin Floyd in return for LaRue, and I'd do the LaRue for Floyd trade everyday as long as we weren't paying salary.

SultanOfSwing
10-27-2006, 01:57 PM
1. How would Houston benefit by getting Larue? They wouldn't, because they already have Ausmus. Ausmus doesn't hit much, but he's a great defensive catcher and field general. I'd like to also think that he's played a role in the success of their pitching staff.

2. Regardless of Lidge's troubles in 2006, I think most of us would love to have him on our team. I think Houston would be nuts to give up on him. But...if they were to give up on him, we'd be glad to take a chance.
1. Because Ausmus is 37 and will not be an Astro in 2008. They may try to trade him if they can get LaRue. LaRue (even in a down year) is an offensive upgrade. Ausmus is very well regarded for his handling, but so is LaRue. LaRue has a better arm and is much younger. LaRue is from Texas and the Astros have always wanted him to play at home.

2. I would like to try Lidge out, but I wouldn't say I'd love to have him. He is still a big risk and could be a total flop. I think the Astros realize if he ever succeeds again, it will not be in Houston (much like Ryan Wagner). He definitely needs a change of scenery. They have already given up on him when they owner demanded he be traded at the deadline and when he lost the closer role. Since that time his stock has plummeted. Therefore he is likely very cheap.

SultanOfSwing
10-27-2006, 01:59 PM
One of the only teams I could see being interested in LaRue would be Philadelphia.

Not sure what the Phils have that I'd be interested in besides Gavin Floyd in return for LaRue, and I'd do the LaRue for Floyd trade everyday as long as we weren't paying salary.
I agree on all points.

Degenerate39
10-27-2006, 02:02 PM
I can't imagine the Astros trading Lidge for LaRue. How will getting LaRue help them? It wouldn't IMO. Getting rid of Lidge would probably hurt them. Now I don't know who they have in the minors but Lidge is a quality closer. So they'd be trading a closer for a backup catcher.

Rex Argos
10-27-2006, 02:03 PM
2. I would like to try Lidge out, but I wouldn't say I'd love to have him. He is still a big risk and could be a total flop. I think the Astros realize if he ever succeeds again, it will not be in Houston (much like Ryan Wagner). He definitely needs a change of scenery. They have already given up on him when they owner demanded he be traded at the deadline and when he lost the closer role. Since that time his stock has plummeted. Therefore he is likely very cheap.

I think if Houston put Lidge on the market, the line to acquire him would be pretty long. I think of all the middling relievers out there who earn "good change" and I suspect that Lidge would be fairly expensive. Just my 2 cents.

SultanOfSwing
10-27-2006, 02:04 PM
I can't imagine the Astros trading Lidge for LaRue. How will getting LaRue help them? It wouldn't IMO. Getting rid of Lidge would probably hurt them. Now I don't know who they have in the minors but Lidge is a quality closer. So they'd be trading a closer for a backup catcher.
Lidge lost the closer role last year to Wheeler. How is he a quality closer in Houston's eyes? Read this post (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1184929&postcount=19) as to why the Astros would want LaRue.

SultanOfSwing
10-27-2006, 02:10 PM
I think if Houston put Lidge on the market, the line to acquire him would be pretty long. I think of all the middling relievers out there who earn "good change" and I suspect that Lidge would be fairly expensive. Just my 2 cents.
Yes, I'm sure there would be a few teams interested, but not for much. In any deal the Astros would have to add money to their side because of Lidge's 4m+ contract. Trading LaRue would mean the Astros wouldn't have to pay anything. Most large-market teams with money to burn won't be interested because they already have a closer or can get a better (read: predictable) closer via trade or FA.

What do you mean by "middling relievers who earn 'good change'"? :confused:

Degenerate39
10-27-2006, 02:13 PM
Lidge lost the closer role last year to Wheeler. How is he a quality closer in Houston's eyes? Read this post (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1184929&postcount=19) as to why the Astros would want LaRue.

I don't follow the Astros much so I never heard of wheeler taking over the closing spot. But Lidge still had 30 some saves last year.

SultanOfSwing
10-27-2006, 02:22 PM
I don't follow the Astros much so I never heard of wheeler taking over the closing spot. But Lidge still had 30 some saves last year.
I understand, but saves don't mean that much when judging how good a pitcher was (much like wins). Derrick Turnbow had 24 saves and was an All-Star last year. Do you want him?

Lidge did save games but a lot were interesting, if you know what I mean. He had 5.28 ERA, was 1-5, and blew 6 saves. His Ks were still stellar but he averaged almost 1H/IP and 0.5BB/IP. That is not good.

Why would the Reds want him? They don't have a closer and a change of scenery could help a lot, IMO.

Rex Argos
10-27-2006, 02:27 PM
What do you mean by "middling relievers who earn 'good change'"? :confused:

What I mean is that there are a lot of so-so relievers who make Lidge-type money. If you wish to lump Lidge into that group, that's your viewpoint. I don't happen to agree, but that's not really the point I was trying to make. There are a number of relievers who in Lidge's neighborhood (~4 mil). Here are a few who are making "good change":

Tomko makes 3.6 million
Guillermo Mota makes 3 million
Eyre makes 3.2 million
Bob Wickman (ATL) is around 5 million

I think Lidge would be a risk, but how many sure things are there with relievers—beyond Rivera? Not many, and there are a number of them who make Lidge money.

PuffyPig
10-27-2006, 02:34 PM
LaRue and Ausmus.... a tandem of no stick no wheels catchers.

It's a GM's wet dream.


Larue has been an above average hitter in his major league career.

SultanOfSwing
10-27-2006, 02:36 PM
What I mean is that there are a lot of so-so relievers who make Lidge-type money. If you wish to lump Lidge into that group, that's your viewpoint. I don't happen to agree, but that's not really the point I was trying to make. There are a number of relievers who in Lidge's neighborhood (~4 mil). Here are a few who are making "good change":

Tomko makes 3.6 million
Guillermo Mota makes 3 million
Eyre makes 3.2 million
Bob Wickman (ATL) is around 5 million

I think Lidge would be a risk, but how many sure things are there with relievers—beyond Rivera? Not many, and there are a number of them who make Lidge money.
Tomko and Thompson are SP who worked in relief this year. Their salary is for a SP. Eyre is very,very good reliever and worth the money, IMO. Mota is the only one I see making more than he is worth. Much like Lidge he was worth it when the contract was signed, though (ditto, for Wickman).

blumj
10-27-2006, 02:47 PM
The cost for Lidge in '07 isn't set, though. He'll get more than $4 million, but how much more, considering the season he just had?

SultanOfSwing
10-27-2006, 02:50 PM
The cost for Lidge in '07 isn't set, though. He'll get more than $4 million, but how much more, considering the season he just had?
That's why I say $4m+. I don't think he will get much of a raise. Maybe a few $100k.

TOBTTReds
10-27-2006, 03:04 PM
If Lidge is worth as much as people are saying, we should be able to trade Griffey for Jose Reyes.

blumj
10-27-2006, 03:07 PM
If Lidge is worth as much as people are saying, we should be able to trade Griffey for Jose Reyes.
NM-sometimes I'm a little slow.

Degenerate39
10-27-2006, 03:18 PM
I understand, but saves don't mean that much when judging how good a pitcher was (much like wins). Derrick Turnbow had 24 saves and was an All-Star last year. Do you want him?

Lidge did save games but a lot were interesting, if you know what I mean. He had 5.28 ERA, was 1-5, and blew 6 saves. His Ks were still stellar but he averaged almost 1H/IP and 0.5BB/IP. That is not good.

Why would the Reds want him? They don't have a closer and a change of scenery could help a lot, IMO.

He'd still be an improvement from Weathers or Coffey though. Personally I'd rather have Everyday Eddie but that's just me

camisadelgolf
10-27-2006, 05:07 PM
Why?!!!

Lidge may turn out to be a gem, but he could also be a major bust worse than Braden Looper. If you notice even his 2005 was a regression (albeit a very good one) and he is 30 years old.

I'd do it because 1.) there's already Ross and Valentin 2.) the Reds already have a better alternative for Olmedo (imho, Brendan Harris) 3.) Shackelford is good for only one thing, and even then, he's not been able to prove that he can do it consistently enough to have much value (once again, imho) 4.) a closer is desperately needed 5.) one million dollars is less than 20% of LaRue's salary 6.) Lidge is 30 years old, which means he could still have a lot of great years in him 7.) closer's heavily rely on confidence for success, and a of scenery could greatly help that, making his acquisition less of a risk 8.) it means the Reds would have to hit against Shackelford and pitch to LaRue.

Slyder
10-27-2006, 06:14 PM
I don't follow the Astros much so I never heard of wheeler taking over the closing spot. But Lidge still had 30 some saves last year.

And an ERA of 5.28, a whip of 1.40, more blown saves than Danny Graves could DREAM of having in the same time span. Would you want Graves back cause thats what type of closer Lidge was last year. Or bring back some of the gah awful guys we had in the pen to start this year. The Astros' ran him out there as closer longer than most teams would have stuck with him in hopes he would work it out. But as I have said before he was a gas can fighting a forest fire last year. He may or may not ever "get it" back. Remember Mark Wohlers? Similar case (I think Wohlers' was hurt when he "lost it"). If youre going to bring in Lidge you dont send anything that isnt expendable.

Redsfan08
10-27-2006, 06:34 PM
LaRue and Shack for Lidge might be realistic. I wouldn't give them anything more than that.

me neither

Degenerate39
10-27-2006, 06:51 PM
And an ERA of 5.28, a whip of 1.40, more blown saves than Danny Graves could DREAM of having in the same time span. Would you want Graves back cause thats what type of closer Lidge was last year. Or bring back some of the gah awful guys we had in the pen to start this year. The Astros' ran him out there as closer longer than most teams would have stuck with him in hopes he would work it out. But as I have said before he was a gas can fighting a forest fire last year. He may or may not ever "get it" back. Remember Mark Wohlers? Similar case (I think Wohlers' was hurt when he "lost it"). If youre going to bring in Lidge you dont send anything that isnt expendable.

When did I say I even wanted Lidge on the Reds? I didn't. I'd much rather have a young up and coming closer.

Unassisted
10-28-2006, 10:07 AM
Lidge is a fixer-upper. Unless the next pitching coach has a track record with reclamation projects, the Reds should pass on Lidge.