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Will M
10-29-2006, 04:55 PM
The Reds need either a SS or a 2B ( if Phillips plays SS ).

Lugo is the only decent free agent shortstop and I think he will be overpaid ( aren't most halfway decent free agents overpaid? ).

The Angels have O Cabrera ( solid , expensive contract ) , Aybar ( prospect ) and Wood ( prospect ). Obviously they can't play all three. Has anyone heard what the Angels would like to do? Any chance the Reds could get one of these shortstops in a trade?

I know the Angels want a power bat. Obviously people have mentioned Dunn in a trade but I think the Angels will go after Carlos Lee or Soriano with a trade being a fallback plan. The Angels needs seem to be: 1B, 3B?, CF ( they aren't happy with Chone Figgins ), C?, & a lefty reliever.

mth123
10-29-2006, 05:01 PM
You forgot Macier Izturis (.777 OPS in about 350 AB) and he's a guy that could be had for a reasonable price IMO. That LH relief looks like something the Reds could spare. If I had my choice I'd send Cormier for Izturis. But I'd let them pick any two of Cormier, Shack, Coutlangus and Pelland. I might even go Bray but probably not from Wayne's standpoint (he has another trade to justify).

Team Clark
10-29-2006, 05:06 PM
You forgot Macier Izturis (.777 OPS in about 350 AB) and he's a guy that could be had for a reasonable price IMO. That LH relief looks like something the Reds could spare. If I had my choice I'd send Cormier for Izturis. But I'd let them pick any two of Cormier, Shack, Coutlangus and Pelland. I might even go Bray but probably not from Wayne's standpoint (he has another trade to justify).

Pretty good proposal IMO. Cormier and Coutlangus could land a Macier Izturis.

dougdirt
10-29-2006, 05:10 PM
I doubt that Brandon Wood is going anywhere. I think another SS of theirs though could be picked up, just depends what you want to offer.

Will M
10-29-2006, 05:14 PM
I did forget about Izturis.
If Izturis could be thought of as an everyday major league SS then I certainly would do Cormier for him. Cormier for 1 year at $2M+ vs a 2nd year SS.
Seems like a good trade for the Reds ( who I still think should be looking at 2008 with anything we do in 2007 being a nice bonus).
I'd prefer we find a young SS who we could 'pencil into the lineup' for a few years rather than a stop gap ( since I believe we don't have a SS prospect in the high minors ).

Bray, Majik & Coffey are the three relievers I would keep ( all young and cheap). I still hope either Coffey or Bray can step up and be a closer.

dougdirt
10-29-2006, 05:21 PM
Will, the best bet at SS in the high minors is Paul Janish who is going to be in AA next season to start, and is probably at least a year away if he continues to progress with the bat.

Will M
10-29-2006, 05:26 PM
if that is the case then a stop gap SS would be OK.
If Janish starts next year at AA then we won't likely see him until mid 2008 even if he progresses as planned ( based on what Krisky has said about prospects having to prove themselves at each level )

- Will

mth123
10-29-2006, 05:37 PM
I did forget about Izturis.
If Izturis could be thought of as an everyday major league SS then I certainly would do Cormier for him. Cormier for 1 year at $2M+ vs a 2nd year SS.
Seems like a good trade for the Reds ( who I still think should be looking at 2008 with anything we do in 2007 being a nice bonus).
I'd prefer we find a young SS who we could 'pencil into the lineup' for a few years rather than a stop gap ( since I believe we don't have a SS prospect in the high minors ).

Bray, Majik & Coffey are the three relievers I would keep ( all young and cheap). I still hope either Coffey or Bray can step up and be a closer.

Izturis will 26 on opening day and has had 1 more successful semi-regular major league season than either Aybar or Wood. I get him cheap and see what happens. If he crashes, you still bought Janisch some time, can look elsewhere and have all your major chips intact. Can't be worse than Clayton and Castro and some one (not on Redszone) thought that was a good idea.

Mario-Rijo
10-29-2006, 06:00 PM
My thinking says that Griffey (It's a huge reach I know) could still be dealt to a place like Anaheim or Detroit. They both need a LH bat with power, he could DH for either of them and at 10.1 million isn't the worst possible option for either team especially if you anty up say 3-4 mill. Anaheim is desperate for OF's, also he isn't any worse than playing Erstad, Rivera or Garret Anderson out in CF at this point. Of course I could see Edmonds going back there for a reduced price tag. Either way I think something could be worked out.

My point to all this is you may be able to pry Orlando Cabrera away for Griffey. Not sure what the difference in salary is but (Cabrera 7.5 Mill in '06) it's possible we could come to some sort of agreement there due to the depth that the Angels have at the position. I believe Griffey would waive his no trade clause to go to one or either of these places, because he knows deep down he has little or no chance to make it to the WS here next year and he's likely done after '07 (IMHO), just look at the decline. And if he DH's a great deal next year his chances improve to get to 600 HR's.

I understand Griffey will be extremely difficult to unload and the likelihood of this happening is little to none. But I think it's time for him to go and most everyone including him knows it. It's either that or change positions, perhaps to LF (This is assuming Dunn happens to be dealt) or RF and dropped to about 5th at best in the lineup. So with these thoughts in mind he may be willing to go elsewhere. We may not get alot in return but if we can unload most of his dollars to use elsewhere and free up CF to someone who is more capable of playing it defensively then I think we need to do it. And more importantly I think the organization knows it.

mth123
10-29-2006, 06:06 PM
I think Anaheim is too far from Griffey's family just like Seattle was. I don't see him going there.

Mario-Rijo
10-29-2006, 07:52 PM
I think Anaheim is too far from Griffey's family just like Seattle was. I don't see him going there.

I understand that however there was some whispers not too awful long ago that he would consider going back to Seattle. But my line of thinking isn't to necc. deal him to Anaheim, just trying to figure where he fits and then go from there. Detroit is a strong possibility though.

mth123
10-29-2006, 08:02 PM
I understand that however there was some whispers not too awful long ago that he would consider going back to Seattle. But my line of thinking isn't to necc. deal him to Anaheim, just trying to figure where he fits and then go from there. Detroit is a strong possibility though.

Yeah, I admit that I thought the Seattle thing might be possible too. Ending his career where he had his glory is different. FWIW I don't think he'll go anywhere except Atlanta and I have a lot of doubts about that too.

M2
10-30-2006, 02:05 AM
The Angels have also got a SS prospect named Sean Rodriguez in line right behind Wood.

Aybar's the odd man out. Veteran with a big contract in front of him, mega prospect right behind him. Somebody's going to get him in trade one of these days. I only hope it will be the Reds.

As for Janish, he's either going to get on the Denorfia plan this year (e.g. have a breakthrough) or he's never going to be a prospect. Nice if it happens, but the Reds can't afford to bank on it. If the organization is making "we'll have Paul Janish by 200X" plans, then the franchise is just about irretreivably lost.

HBP
10-30-2006, 02:31 AM
As for Janish, he's either going to get on the Denorfia plan this year (e.g. have a breakthrough) or he's never going to be a prospect. Nice if it happens, but the Reds can't afford to bank on it. If the organization is making "we'll have Paul Janish by 200X" plans, then the franchise is just about irretreivably lost.

Agree on that. I doubt Wayne is looking at him to be the SS of the future. I'd say if there's a SS/2B of the future in the system, it's probably Valaika.

mth123
10-30-2006, 06:52 AM
The Angels have also got a SS prospect named Sean Rodriguez in line right behind Wood.

Aybar's the odd man out. Veteran with a big contract in front of him, mega prospect right behind him. Somebody's going to get him in trade one of these days. I only hope it will be the Reds.

As for Janish, he's either going to get on the Denorfia plan this year (e.g. have a breakthrough) or he's never going to be a prospect. Nice if it happens, but the Reds can't afford to bank on it. If the organization is making "we'll have Paul Janish by 200X" plans, then the franchise is just about irretreivably lost.

Agree Aybar will eventually go, I just don't think its until mid-season or next off-season. He projects as a good SS but not a real difference maker IMO. I would not wreck our team just to fill a hole with him. If you can get him for spare parts then sure. Though Aybar could end-up at SS and Wood at 3B with Cabrera dumped at some point.

Also not high on Janisch.

M2
10-30-2006, 11:09 AM
Though Aybar could end-up at SS and Wood at 3B with Cabrera dumped at some point.

I tend to think the Angels won't do that. That franchise is in win-now mode to a certain degree. They've got Kendrick coming along at 2B, Kotchman or Morales at 1B and possibly Mathis behind the plate too (though I tend to think Los Anaheim will find a veteran catcher this offseason). It's too much of a youth infusion. If that's the plan, the franchise might have to wait two or three years before its run starts. My guess is Cabrera serves out his contract at SS with Wood coming up next year to replace him. Perhaps a short-term answer at 3b like Pedro Feliz or Rich Aurilia will be in the offing.

Johnny Footstool
10-30-2006, 01:13 PM
Izturis looks to have a good sense of the strike zone, but not much power and very few stolen bases in the minors. I have no idea about his defense. Honestly, he looks like someone that could be acquired for very little and who would help the team, but is not a long-term answer.

TeamSelig
10-30-2006, 03:40 PM
How good is Izturis's defense rated?

Also, don't bank on Paul Janish making it to the big leagues (especially a starter). I'm no scout, but I really really doubt he ever becomes of anything at the major league level.

SultanOfSwing
10-30-2006, 03:56 PM
How good is Izturis's defense rated?

Also, don't bank on Paul Janish making it to the big leagues (especially a starter). I'm no scout, but I really really doubt he ever becomes of anything at the major league level.
Izturis has been touted as a very good defensive SS, and certainly has the skill-set. However, to this point, his play on the field has failed to affirm that assumption. Scouting reports on him now take note that he appears weak in the field. His fielding (which was his big ticket to stardom), or lack thereof, is the main reason the Angels have soured on him over the past year. In their minds, he is now #4 on the depth charts at SS (behind Cabrera, Wood, Ayabar) and a possibility at 3B. I would imagine, depending on interest shown by other clubs, he could be had for a reasonably cheap price.

One could almost make comparisons to FeLo (without the offense). He has great athletic ability, but commits a lot of errors and make mental mistakes.

redsupport
10-30-2006, 04:15 PM
watched him play here in So. Cal you are correct

Will M
10-30-2006, 09:06 PM
in 1987 when Larkin kept throwing the ball into the stands. Rookie shortstops can often make a lot of errors. Now if a 2nd or 3rd year shortstop continues to make errors that is not good.

Redmachine2003
10-30-2006, 11:39 PM
Are any of these prospects really any better than this Gil kid the Reds just picked up. If not then give him a chance at short.

mth123
10-31-2006, 05:37 AM
Are any of these prospects really any better than this Gil kid the Reds just picked up. If not then give him a chance at short.

Gil (6-3, 183 age 24) has been an out machine in the minors. His highest OBP was this year in AA at .302. He has slugged .468, .472, .531 his last 3 years. He played OF in 2006 but is supposed to be a good defender at SS. Not sure why he was in the OF. AZ has a bit of a logjam at SS so that may be why. Because he makes too many outs you can't count on him. His versatility may make him a 25th man. Need to look elsewhere for SS.

The Angels' guys are all better.

mth123
10-31-2006, 07:32 AM
The Angels have also got a SS prospect named Sean Rodriguez in line right behind Wood.

Aybar's the odd man out. Veteran with a big contract in front of him, mega prospect right behind him. Somebody's going to get him in trade one of these days. I only hope it will be the Reds.

As for Janish, he's either going to get on the Denorfia plan this year (e.g. have a breakthrough) or he's never going to be a prospect. Nice if it happens, but the Reds can't afford to bank on it. If the organization is making "we'll have Paul Janish by 200X" plans, then the franchise is just about irretreivably lost.

Of this group Wood is the real stud. The others are nothing special IMO. Aybar is overvalued because he hasn't had a chance to fail and I wouldn't want to give up what it might take to get him. Wood is probably not a guy that can be had, Cabrera is too expensive.

A closer look at Erick Aybar (5-11, 160 Lbs, age 23 on opening day): In AAA in 2006 .283/.327/.413/.740, AA in 2005 .303/.350/.445/.795. He's young but isn't the .900+ OPS guy that Wood is and certainly isn't a guy to trade major players for IMO. A closer look shows that his OBP earlier in his minor league career as aided largely by lots of HBP. Starting in 2002 we was hit 11,13,13,14, 3 times. In 2006 when the HBP dropped his OBP dropped to .327 with it. He also gets a lot of value attached to him for his SB numbers. Again starting in 2002 he stole 15,32,51,49,32 but he gets caught way too much for that to really help. His CS those years? 10,9,36,23,18. Total 178 Steals 96 CS 65% success rate. Too low to help much IMO. I have higher standards here than the prevailing wisdom, but I think a guy needs to be successful 80% of the time or better or he just shouldn't run. On the plus side, he's a good defender, has put up good doubles numbers so he may get more power, and he is still young for the competition. I'd certainly make him the Reds starter right now compared to other options but expectations are too high for him IMO. I see him as a slick fielding #7 hitter who won't kill you, but won't be a centerpiece either. He may hold down the #2 spot in the line-up in his better years. He looks a lot like Cabrera to me.

Janish has actually had better OBP numbers than Aybar and this year showed more power than he has in the past. He is a little older and playing at a lower level, but in my mind the increase in Slugging in 2006 moved him from pure bust to guy to watch but don't count on. He also has a good defensive rep. If he can keep his slugging up he has a chance to be an ok defensive minded bottom of the line-up type SS.

M2
10-31-2006, 10:52 AM
Are any of these prospects really any better than this Gil kid the Reds just picked up. If not then give him a chance at short.

By leaps and bounds. The Angels have three of the top six SS prospects in the game according to BA. To date, Gil's been a non-prospect. Now, prospect status doesn't equal fate, but there isn't an organization in baseball that wouldn't rather have one of those three kids than Gil.

M2
10-31-2006, 11:30 AM
Of this group Wood is the real stud. The others are nothing special IMO. Aybar is overvalued because he hasn't had a chance to fail and I wouldn't want to give up what it might take to get him. Wood is probably not a guy that can be had, Cabrera is too expensive.

A closer look at Erick Aybar (5-11, 160 Lbs, age 23 on opening day): In AAA in 2006 .283/.327/.413/.740, AA in 2005 .303/.350/.445/.795. He's young but isn't the .900+ OPS guy that Wood is and certainly isn't a guy to trade major players for IMO. A closer look shows that his OBP earlier in his minor league career as aided largely by lots of HBP. Starting in 2002 we was hit 11,13,13,14, 3 times. In 2006 when the HBP dropped his OBP dropped to .327 with it. He also gets a lot of value attached to him for his SB numbers. Again starting in 2002 he stole 15,32,51,49,32 but he gets caught way too much for that to really help. His CS those years? 10,9,36,23,18. Total 178 Steals 96 CS 65% success rate. Too low to help much IMO. I have higher standards here than the prevailing wisdom, but I think a guy needs to be successful 80% of the time or better or he just shouldn't run. On the plus side, he's a good defender, has put up good doubles numbers so he may get more power, and he is still young for the competition. I'd certainly make him the Reds starter right now compared to other options but expectations are too high for him IMO. I see him as a slick fielding #7 hitter who won't kill you, but won't be a centerpiece either. He may hold down the #2 spot in the line-up in his better years. He looks a lot like Cabrera to me.

Janish has actually had better OBP numbers than Aybar and this year showed more power than he has in the past. He is a little older and playing at a lower level, but in my mind the increase in Slugging in 2006 moved him from pure bust to guy to watch but don't count on. He also has a good defensive rep. If he can keep his slugging up he has a chance to be an ok defensive minded bottom of the line-up type SS.

I agree that Aybar's out of the Edgar Renteria mold. Here's my question, why wouldn't you want that? That's a five-time All-Star, three-time Silver Slugger winner, two-time Gold Glover. The reason I use Renteria here instead of Cabrera is because Renteria hits for a higher average (.288 for his career compared to .269 for Cabrera). To date, Aybar's hit .311 in the minors. The kid can hit. He's also got Gold Glove defensive skills and the ability to rob you blind on the basepaths (his CS rates should drop with experience). He's not a finished product yet, but at age 22 I don't expect him to be a finished product.

Centerpiece? Theoretically speaking, there's seven guys (not including the pitcher) who aren't the centerpiece of your lineup. I'm perfectly fine with the kid coming in, providing what he can at the bottom of the order and giving the defense a forklift upgrade in his first season. Though someone who can hit for average might thrive up in front of Adam Dunn. Whoever holds that spot in the lineup stands to see a lot of strikes.

I like that he draws HBPs. Getting hit is a skill just like drawing the BB. Aybar had a down year with the bat, but, personally, I'd love a SS who slumps to a .283/.327/.413 stat line. Great time to get the kid, coming off his worst season. Combined with the Angels' current SS glut, he's probably never been less expensive.

As for Janish, he spent his first two seasons not hitting and he was only adequate in high A at age 23. I agree that he's salvaged himself, but I think it's telling that the hope for Janish is that maybe someday he can become what Aybar could be starting next season (lower lineup hitter with a plus glove).

I don't know if the Reds can matchup with the Angels, but Aybar's definitely the kind of young, dynamic SS I'd like to see the Reds land. If ever there was a team that could use a high energy infusion, it's these Reds.

schroomytunes
10-31-2006, 03:05 PM
IMHO the Angels are going to move one of their SS prospects this offseason, I think that Wood is untouchable at this point and will be the successor to Cabrera. The Angels did fail to land a bat at the trading deadline, so with that in mind why not offer them this deal:

Reds trade-Adam Dunn and Matt Belisle

Angels trade: Erick Aybar(ss)AAA and Ervin Santana(SP) and a prospect in low A

cincyinco
10-31-2006, 07:32 PM
I would try to target Sean Rodriguez, as M2 mentioned, from the angels.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/stats/player.php?id=446481

He has good power, was the player of the year for the angels organization i believe.. i've been a fan of his since a few years ago, when the angels were thinking of converting him to a catcher. I'm not sure he could stick at SS, but I think he could slide over to 2b easily, and be of the Ian Kinsler mold. He has good pop and had a breakout year this year. He also did well in a brief stint at AA. I think he could be had relatively cheap in comparison with the other guys before him on the depth charts..

mth123
10-31-2006, 08:09 PM
I agree that Aybar's out of the Edgar Renteria mold. Here's my question, why wouldn't you want that?


I'm not really saying I wouldn't want that. I just don't want to trade Adam Dunn for it as many have suggested. Once he's in the majors he is not a game changer. If he pans out, he's a good everyday SS. Get him in the right deal and stick him at SS for 10 years and I'm fine with it. Wreck the middle of the line-up. Nope.

If the Reds are going to make the next level they need to build around the projected core of Dunn, EE, Votto and Bruce on offense and Harang, Arroyo and Bailey on the mound. I wouldn't trade any of those guys unless I get a guy who projects as a core player back. Wood does. Aybar doesn't. Good little player, probably. Core player, no. Just my thought. FYI I don't think Santana qualifies either but he's closer.

Will M
10-31-2006, 08:36 PM
" If the Reds are going to make the next level they need to build around the projected core of Dunn, EE, Votto and Bruce on offense and Harang, Arroyo and Bailey on the mound. I wouldn't trade any of those guys unless I get a guy who projects as a core player back."

I like your line of thinking.

M2
10-31-2006, 09:29 PM
If the Reds are going to make the next level they need to build around the projected core of Dunn, EE, Votto and Bruce on offense and Harang, Arroyo and Bailey on the mound. I wouldn't trade any of those guys unless I get a guy who projects as a core player back.

I tend to agree. This is where I find the Kearns/Lopez deal hurts. I love the idea of trying to pry Aybar and Santana (and Jeff Mathis) away from the Angels. If Kearns or Lopez were still around it would give the Reds talent outside the core to move. The trade market is where the Reds need to operate and what skin do they have to put into that game? Not bloody much.

You can see if there's a market for Jr. (and if he'll consent to the deal if you make one - Carl Lindner shot this franchise in the foot when he torpedoed the ChiSox deal in 2005). Ryan Freel might fetch you something. Maybe someone's in love with Dave Ross, probably not.

It puts Krivsky in a bind. Frankly, I think he's got to consider trading Votto because the kid may not be ready within the 2007-8 Harang/Arroyo window and because it's relatively easy to find a productive 1B. Bailey's the other guy Krivsky's going to have consider moving. Arguably he's got the most trade value of anybody on the team. Like Votto, he may not be able to help inside the next two years. Bob Castellini's made it clear that he's not aiming for the next decade. If Bailey can bring you some core in return (say another frontline starter to go with Harang and Arroyo), do you pull the trigger? The free agent pool is lousy unless you've got the cash to buy the elite guys.

If Krivsky resists that temptation, or if he doesn't get an offer he likes, then probably his only choice is to try to steal some players (like Brandon Phillips last year). Then a guy like Maicer Izturis is probably your best bet. In that scenario he'll need to steal some pitchers and an OF too. Hope he's got a ski mask.

I don't envy Krivsky's position. He's basically being asked to win at gin rummy without only five cards. Though he contributed to the problem by dealing away two guys who would still have a market for two guys who are essentially worthless at the moment.

mth123
10-31-2006, 10:02 PM
If Krivsky resists that temptation, or if he doesn't get an offer he likes, then probably his only choice is to try to steal some players (like Brandon Phillips last year). Then a guy like Maicer Izturis is probably your best bet. In that scenario he'll need to steal some pitchers and an OF too. Hope he's got a ski mask.

This is kind of where my head has been for a while now. Big Free Agents won't come here until the team is improved and plugging a few holes with role players could improve the team IMO. I think Free agents at this point are a losing game. To get a desirable guy, the Reds will need to overpay so much that the guy won't be desirable any longer. I think trading the Freels, Majewskis, Cormiers of the world and maybe the Cuetos or Woods can get you similar players at areas of need. Teams are looking for pitching prospects. I'm not sure why a Cueto couldn't be the centerpiece of a deal for a guy like Aybar. Pitching is valued and Aybar is excess. The Reds may need to throw in a Moran or a Pelland but guys the Reds need right now can be had w/o trading the main guys. Lower level free agents to play a role would be ok.

With Phillips, Deno, Coffey and Bray some of the role players are already here. Since the Reds seem to have a little money, another option may be to take some one else's contract that they are looking to dump. I'd be open to Pat Burrell or Kyle Farnsworth for example if they could be had for a middling prospect and taking over the payments. Those guys will probably be a better combination of performance and payroll than anything they could actually buy at this point.

flyer85
10-31-2006, 10:13 PM
Big Free Agents won't come here until the team is improved big free agents will NEVER come to this team because in the end they will always be outbid. The kind of free agents that come will be the kind the Reds have gotten in recent years, ones at the bottom of the pool or those overpaid for little performance.

mth123
10-31-2006, 10:38 PM
big free agents will NEVER come to this team because in the end they will always be outbid. The kind of free agents that come will be the kind the Reds have gotten in recent years, ones at the bottom of the pool or those overpaid for little performance.

Generally agree, but if the Reds are built to contender status from within, then guys may look this way for less money like they do other teams now. Got to improve first and add free agents to fill holes and be finishing touches second IMO. One reason that the Reds are outbid, is that they usually need to outbid the competition by a significant amount to get a guys attention. All things being equal, players choose to go elsewhere.

There are free agents every year, but for the particular players, its usually the one chance to get everything they want. That includes $, location, and favorable team situation. Not simply $. Most aren't going to give that chance away to come to a losing team.

Guys who are free agents more than once are either guys who can't command the bigger better deals or guys who did it once and are on the downhill side and can't do it again.

flyer85
10-31-2006, 10:45 PM
Generally agree, but if the Reds are built to contender status from within, then guys may look this way for less money like they do other teams now. really no evidence that big free agents actually do that.

flyer85
11-03-2006, 02:15 PM
Angels trade: Erick Aybar(ss)AAA and Ervin Santana(SP) and a prospect in low AErvin Santana, one of the most extreme flyball pitchers in baseball, would be a horrible fit for GABP.

Spitball
11-03-2006, 10:34 PM
Once he's in the majors he is not a game changer. If he pans out, he's a good everyday SS. Get him in the right deal and stick him at SS for 10 years and I'm fine with it. Wreck the middle of the line-up. Nope.


Shortstop prospects can be hard to call, but I believe Aybar is a good gamble. I watched both Hanley Ramirez and Erick Aybar in 2004 and 2005 and believe Aybar will be better. He could be a Rentaria (who I saw many times at a similar age with the Portland Sea Dogs) or a Rafeal Furcal-type top of the order player. Shortstops sometimes don't pan out, but then that is Dan O kind of fearful thinking.

Also, I don't believe the Angels expect a middle of the line-up type for Aybar. I was shocked they traded Alberto Callaspo for Jason Bulger. Unlike Yankee and Red Sox prospects, I think some of the Angels' prospects might be undervalued. Donny Rowland, former scouting director, did a remarkable job in his time with the team. The Angels won in 2002 with mostly homegrown stars, but then seemed to change direction. Though they blocked the progress of some prospects with free agents, others such as McPherson were hampered by injuries. But, I have faith in Rowland-aquired talent...and that includes Aybar.

BTW, I believe Izturis has had lots of troubles with hamstrings and knees in the last two years.

mth123
11-03-2006, 10:59 PM
Also, I don't believe the Angels expect a middle of the line-up type for Aybar. I was shocked they traded Alberto Callaspo for Jason Bulger. Unlike Yankee and Red Sox prospects, I think some of the Angels' prospects might be undervalued. Donny Rowland, former scouting director, did a remarkable job in his time with the team. The Angels won in 2002 with mostly homegrown stars, but then seemed to change direction. Though they blocked the progress of some prospects with free agents, others such as McPherson were hampered by injuries. But, I have faith in Rowland-aquired talent...and that includes Aybar.

I'm all for getting Aybar in the right deal. Just no Dunn, EE, Votto, Bruce, Bailey, Harang or Arroyo deals with Aybar coming back as the centerpiece. If Cormier, Coutlangus and Moran gets him, then go for it. I'd even include Wood or Cueto if I had to in place of Coutlangus. I'd trade Freel for Aybar and maybe an OF prospect like Murphy or a catcher like Mathis or Napoli. I'd even throw in a Moran or a Pelland. I just think trading the main guys to fill the SS hole will be a break-even at best and since Aybar is unproven a likely downgrade from a value standpoint.

My main reason for suggesting Izturis is that I think he'll be fairly cheap to acquire. You could probably trade Cormier and a minor leaguer and get at least a most of the time SS and save money as well. I like Izturis .777 OPS in the SS spot.

With the rumors of Vernon Wells maybe being too expensive for Toronto, I think the Angels will be looking that direction. Toronto needs a SS as bad as the Reds do and have exactly what the Angels need. A big bat who happens to play CF. (Toronto could use one the excess catchers too.) The only thing the Reds could trade that the Angels need are some lefty relievers. That is more in the Izturis territory than the Aybar IMO.