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mbgrayson
10-30-2006, 03:18 PM
VORP means ‘Value Over Replacement Player’. This is a simple one number statistic that can be used to measure overall offensive value of a player. It calculates the number of runs contributed beyond what a replacement-level player at the same position would contribute if given the same percentage of team plate appearances. These numbers only consider offensive contributions....they do not include any pitching or fielding value; only includes hitting and base running value. A player rated at zero is essentially what an average replacement player, a AAAA type player, would generate.

1. Rich Aurillia 27.4
2. Adam Dunn 23.5
3. David Ross 22.6
4. Brandon Phillips 22.6
5. Edwin Encarnacion 17.0
6. Scott Hatteberg 16.9
7. Ryan Freel 16.4
8. Ken Griffey JR. 16.0
9. Austin Kearns 15.7 (Thru trade date)
10. Felipe Lopez 14.9 (Thru trade date)
11. Eric Milton 5.3
12. Javier Valentin 4.5
13. Norris Hopper 3.4
14. Juan Castro 1.7
15. Chris Denorfia 1.1
27. Todd Hollandsworth -.4
33. Ray Olmedo -1.6
34. Quinton McCracken -2.1
36. Royce Clayton -3.8
37. Jason Larue -4.3
38. Dewayne Wise -4.6

The missing numbers are mostly pitchers, and other than Milton, I left them out. The full Reds list is available HERE from Baseball Prospectus (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=104634).

vaticanplum
10-30-2006, 03:23 PM
11. Eric Milton 5.3

:lol:

When I think of the phrases "Eric Milton" and "contributing runs", this isn't usually the first connection between the two that comes to mind.

Highlifeman21
10-30-2006, 04:22 PM
What position was used for Aurilia?

Same question for Ryan Freel.

dabvu2498
10-30-2006, 04:27 PM
What position was used for Aurilia?

Same question for Ryan Freel.

I believe BP pro-rates theirs depending on the number of innings played at each position.

For listing purposes, they have RA at 3B and Farney listed as a CF.

Also, amongst NL position players, Aurilia ranked 45th, Dunn, Ross, and Phillips were 57-59th.

LincolnparkRed
10-30-2006, 05:13 PM
That Quentin Mccracken signing really helped huh? Between him and Wise we were basically playing the season with 24 players. I know your 25th best player shouldn't play all that often but with 3 catchers that role should have been more important than leaving it to Q and Dewayne.

mbgrayson
10-30-2006, 05:57 PM
What position was used for Aurilia?

Same question for Ryan Freel.

Position doesn't matter for these calculations. Baseball Prosepctus bases these numbers only on batting and base running statistics. So for Freel and Aurillia, the numbers are a total of all of their at bats.

Highlifeman21
10-30-2006, 06:42 PM
Position doesn't matter for these calculations. Baseball Prosepctus bases these numbers only on batting and base running statistics. So for Freel and Aurillia, the numbers are a total of all of their at bats.

VORP is adjusted for position though.

Therefore, Aurilia was a more valuable 3B (if that's his listed position) than all the other Reds were at their respective positions.

I'm sure some people will take Aurilia's VORP, see that it's better than EE's VORP, and make the deduction that Aurilia was more valuable than EE, which couldn't be any farther from the truth.

traderumor
10-30-2006, 08:03 PM
VORP is adjusted for position though.

Therefore, Aurilia was a more valuable 3B (if that's his listed position) than all the other Reds were at their respective positions.

I'm sure some people will take Aurilia's VORP, see that it's better than EE's VORP, and make the deduction that Aurilia was more valuable than EE, which couldn't be any farther from the truth.Please explain why that would be a wrong deduction.

mbgrayson
10-30-2006, 08:21 PM
Baseball Prospectus definition:
"Value Over Replacement Player. The number of runs contributed beyond what a replacement-level player at the same position would contribute if given the same percentage of team plate appearances. VORP scores do not consider the quality of a player's defense. "

So with that note, I do think that it matters what position they rate a given player at. Obviously, 1st basemen, on average, will hit for more power than shortstops....so someone that hits at replacement level for a 1st baseman may be considerd an excellent hitter for a shortstop.

Highlifeman21
10-30-2006, 09:43 PM
Please explain why that would be a wrong deduction.


You really think Aurilia is more valuable to the Reds than EE?

I think Aurilia's VORP number is a little skewed b/c he played games at 1B, SS and 3B, whereas EE played 3B all season.

I'd rather have EE than Aurilia. Maybe I'm alone in that feeling.

KronoRed
10-30-2006, 09:43 PM
I'd rather have EE than Aurilia. Maybe I'm alone in that feeling.
Not at all.

Cedric
10-30-2006, 10:26 PM
You really think Aurilia is more valuable to the Reds than EE?

I think Aurilia's VORP number is a little skewed b/c he played games at 1B, SS and 3B, whereas EE played 3B all season.

I'd rather have EE than Aurilia. Maybe I'm alone in that feeling.

That has nothing to do with what you first said. Nobody would for the future want Edwin over Rich. VORP is just a one year tool.

traderumor
10-31-2006, 06:31 AM
You really think Aurilia is more valuable to the Reds than EE?

I think Aurilia's VORP number is a little skewed b/c he played games at 1B, SS and 3B, whereas EE played 3B all season.

I'd rather have EE than Aurilia. Maybe I'm alone in that feeling.

As Cedric has already pointed out, that is not what VORP is representing. You use the word "is" above while using a historical stat with no reasoning as to why it is not reflective of the player's future value to the team. All I was looking for were some reasons that people should not draw that conclusion when that is exactly what the statistic is reporting. Or at least other reasons than you telling us not to make that conclusion.