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Cyclone792
11-01-2006, 10:50 PM
I can't believe I haven't seen this posted yet ...

Full American League Rankings (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2006-10-31-elias-rankings.htm#al)
Full National League Rankings (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2006-10-31-elias-rankings.htm#nl)

Below is a chart of the current declared FA's and their Elias rankings as posted on SOSH ... http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=12615


All currently declared FA's and their rankings based on Elias.

A=Type A
B=Type B
C=Type C
X= Lower ranked then Type C
NR=Not ranked by Elias



AMERICAN LEAGUE
===============

Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
-----------------------------
Darin Erstad, OF X
Adam Kennedy, 2B B
J.C. Romero, LHP X


Baltimore Orioles
-----------------
Bruce Chen, LHP X
Chris Gomez, SS C
LaTroy Hawkins, RHP B
Kevin Millar, 1B A
Russ Ortiz, RHP X
Chris Widger, C X


Boston Red Sox
--------------
Alex Cora, SS X
Alex Gonzalez, SS B
Gabe Kapler, OF X
Mark Loretta, 2B A
Doug Mirabelli, C X
Trot Nixon, OF B


Chicago White Sox
-----------------
Sandy Alomar, C X
Jeff Nelson, RHP X
David Riske, RHP A



Cleveland Indians
-----------------
Aaron Boone, 3B X
Lou Merloni, 2B NR


Detroit Tigers
--------------
Sean Casey, 1B A
Matt Stairs, OF C
Jamie Walker, LHP B


Kansas City Royals
------------------
Paul Bako, C X
Doug Mientkiewicz, 1B C


Minnesota Twins
---------------
Phil Nevin, 1B X
Shannon Stewart, OF C
Rondell White, DH X


New York Yankees
----------------
Miguel Cairo, IF X
Octavio Dotel, RHP X
Tanyon Sturtze, RHP X
Ron Villone, LHP B
Bernie Williams, OF C
Craig Wilson, 1B C


Oakland Athletics
-----------------
Jay Payton, OF B
Frank Thomas, DH B
Barry Zito, LHP A


Seattle Mariners
----------------
Gil Meche, RHP B


Tampa Bay Devil Rays
--------------------
Tomas O. Perez, 3B X


Texas Rangers
-------------
Rod Barajas, C B
Mark De Rosa, OF B
Adam Eaton, RHP C
Carlos Lee, OF A
Gary Matthews Jr., OF A
Vicente Padilla, RHP B
Eric Young, 2B X


Toronto Blue Jays
-----------------
Frank Catalanotto, OF A
Ted Lilly, LHP B
Bengie Molina, C A
Justin Speier, RHP A
Gregg Zaun, C B



NATIONAL LEAGUE
===============

Arizona Diamondbacks
--------------------
Miguel Batista, RHP B
Craig Counsell, SS B
Damion Easley, SS X
Luis Gonzalez, 1B A
Brian Jordan, OF X


Atlanta Braves
--------------
Danys Baez, RHP A
Todd Pratt, C X
John C. Thomson, RHP X
Daryle Ward, 1B X


Chicago Cubs
------------
Henry Blanco, C C
John S. Mabry, 1B X
Wade Miller, RHP X
Juan Pierre, OF B
Aramis Ramirez, 3B A
Kerry Wood, RHP X


Cincinnati Reds
---------------
Rich Aurilia, 3B A
Royce Clayton, SS C
Ryan Franklin, RHP C
Eddie Guardado, LHP A
Todd Hollandsworth, OF X
Jason Johnson, RHP NR
Scott Schoeneweis, LHP B
Dave Weathers, RHP A
*-Paul Wilson, RHP X


Colorado Rockies
----------------
*-Ray King, LHP X
Tom Martin, LHP X
Kaz Matsui, 2B X


Florida Marlins
---------------
Joe Borowski, RHP A
Wes Helms, 3B X
Matt Herges, RHP X
Brian Moehler, RHP X


Houston Astros
--------------
Aubrey Huff, 3B A
Russ Springer, RHP A



Los Angeles Dodgers
-------------------
Einar Diaz, C NR
*-Eric Gagne, RHP A
Nomar Garciaparra, 1B B
Julio Lugo, SS A
Greg Maddux, RHP A
Ramon E. Martinez, RHP X
Aaron Sele, RHP X


Milwaukee Brewers
-----------------
David Bell, 3B C
Jeff Cirillo, 3B X
Tony Graffanino, 2B A
Rick Helling, RHP B
Daniel Kolb, RHP X
Tomo Ohka, RHP B


New York Mets
-------------
Chad Bradford, RHP A
Cliff Floyd, OF A
Orlando Hernandez, RHP B
Roberto Hernandez, RHP A
*-Yusaku Iriki, RHP NR
Ricky Ledee, OF NR
Guillermo Mota, RHP B
Darren Oliver, LHP B
Steve Trachsel, RHP C
Michael Tucker, OF X
Jose Valentin, 2B B
Chris Woodward, 2B X


Philadelphia Phillies
---------------------
Aaron Fultz, LHP A
Jose A. Hernandez, SS X
Mike Lieberthal, C A
Arthur Rhodes, LHP B
Rick White, RHP C
Randy Wolf, LHP C


Pittsburgh Pirates
------------------
Joe Randa, 3B C



St. Louis Cardinals
-------------------
Ron Belliard, 2B A
Gary Bennett, C X
Jason Marquis, RHP B
Scott Spiezio, 3B X
Jose Vizcaino, SS X
Jeff Weaver, RHP B


San Diego Padres
----------------
Geoff Blum, 3B X
Doug Brocail, RHP X
Alan Embree, LHP B
Shawn Estes, LHP X
Chan Ho Park, RHP B
David Roberts, OF A
Rudy Seanez, RHP A
Todd Walker, 2B A
Woody Williams, RHP A


San Francisco Giants
--------------------
Moises Alou, OF A
Barry Bonds, OF A
Ray Durham, 2B A
Todd Greene, C X
Shea Hillenbrand, 1B B
Steve Kline, LHP C
Jason Schmidt, RHP A
Mike Stanton, LHP B


Washington Nationals
--------------------
Tony Armas Jr, RHP C
Robert Fick, C X
Jose Guillen, OF B
Alfonso Soriano, OF A

* -- Provisional election pending resolution of club option on
player's contract

flyer85
11-01-2006, 10:55 PM
a lot of those type As have no chance of moving unless they are not offered arbitration.

Shaknb8k
11-01-2006, 10:56 PM
from the looks of it then we should be getting quite a few extra draft picks next year.

flyer85
11-01-2006, 11:11 PM
from the looks of it then we should be getting quite a few extra draft picks next year.... I wouldn't be expecting to get draft picks for a guy like Weathers. It will be interesting to see if the Reds offer arbitration(I doubt they will).

TOBTTReds
11-01-2006, 11:45 PM
wow, we could be getting some steals. Guardado!? Ha. Good stuff. These rankings are some have the most misearable ranking system I've seen.

Frank Thomas is a B and Weathers is an A. FT did nothing in 05 so the A's get punished for it. Nice.

M2
11-02-2006, 12:00 AM
I'd offer Aurilia and Weathers arbitration.

Topcat
11-02-2006, 12:59 AM
Ok like in a totally dream scenario . Since i am sorta in a spiccoli kinda mind right now (*beer*) How cool would it be if we lost all these dudes and yet had offered them arbitration. Talk about a nuclear jolt to our minor prospects that would be!:cool:

cincyinco
11-02-2006, 04:50 AM
especially since the 07 draft is supposed to be a very strong class Topcat!

mth123
11-02-2006, 05:41 AM
I'd offer Aurilia and Weathers arbitration.

My thought as well. Neither made a ton last year so the award shouldn't be huge. Although the award for Weathers could be a little steep if he is viewed as a closer by the guy making the decision on the award. Its only a year and its signing for multiple years that is the rub with those guys.

I wouldn't touch the rest with a 10 foot pole.

redsmetz
11-02-2006, 05:45 AM
I'd offer Aurilia and Weathers arbitration.

I'd agree here. With Guardado's surgery, I'm not sure we can afford to risk offering arbitration. They may try to get an incentive laden contract beforehand.

LoganBuck
11-02-2006, 06:56 AM
What likely price tags are Aurillia, Weathers and Schoeneweis going to carry?

flyer85
11-02-2006, 08:19 AM
I'd offer Aurilia and Weathers arbitration.In the case of Weathers that could mean an arbitration hearing that could net him potentially $3-4M. As long as the Reds are comfortable with that there is no reason not to.

Shaknb8k
11-02-2006, 09:41 AM
How exactly does the arbitration work?

dabvu2498
11-02-2006, 09:58 AM
How exactly does the arbitration work?

Fairly simple version -- If the player accepts, then player and team are stuck with what ever the arbitrator decides is a fair salary.

If the player declines, player is a free agent and team receives compensatory pick if/when he signs with another team.

I'm sure other people can explain it better.

lollipopcurve
11-02-2006, 11:18 AM
I'd offer Aurilia and Weathers arbitration.

For me, it's Aurilia and Schoeneweis. SS is a no-brainer -- he's a B, meaning the signing team sacrifices no picks (change in the rules, effective this year). The Reds will get a sandwich pick after the first round for him -- nice. If there are no takers -- unlikely, since he's a healthy lefty who pitched well down the stretch -- he'll be back for relatively little, and I think he'd help the pen. Weathers is problematic -- he's got a ton of saves for a guy of his ability, so I think his salary will be inflated, and the fact that he's an A, requiring the signing team to sacrifice either a 1st or 2nd, makes his market uncertain, I think, if he's offered arbitration. I don't think I'd want him back at a big #, and I wouldn't want to see a two-year deal offered him as a way of reducing the 07 salary, either. He had arm issues last year, and he's old.

Aurilia had such a good year that I think someone will want him. I'm pretty sure San Fran will bite, because their first pick is protected, and there's a good chance they'll be getting comp picks of their own for Durham and Schmidt.

Doc. Scott
11-02-2006, 11:46 AM
I'd offer Aurilia and Weathers arbitration.

As would I. Those are the two guys that I wouldn't mind having back anyway, but we should definitely be getting something if they walk. Schoeneweis pitched well and everything, but like Kyle Lohse, he won't be cheap if he accepts arbitration (which he likely would, coming off a down year). I think I'd try to resign Scott for his true market value and risk the loss.

Offering Guardado arbitration is pretty much impossible since he'd be guaranteed a fat paycheck to be injured for most of '07. So no chance for any picks there. Clayton and Franklin... I'd be too afraid they'd accept.

RedsManRick
11-02-2006, 11:59 AM
How exactly does the arbitration work?

Slightly longer version:

- Team submits the number it thinks is fair.
- Player submits the number he thinks is fair.
- Arbiter decides on a number he thinks is fair after hearing both sides make their case for their number.

The final number is whoever is closer to the arbiter's. So if the team says 2MM, the player says 3MM and the arbiter says 2.6MM, the player wins and gets 3MM. By going to arbitration, both sides accept whatever the decision is ahead of time.

lollipopcurve
11-02-2006, 12:03 PM
Schoeneweis pitched well and everything, but like Kyle Lohse, he won't be cheap if he accepts arbitration (which he likely would, coming off a down year). I think I'd try to resign Scott for his true market value and risk the loss.

Not sure how they evaluate relievers, but I'm pretty sure SS would be awarded a whole lot less than Weathers. I'll take that risk, knowing that teams have to sacrifice no picks to sign him, and let Weathers go. DW's age and especially his balky shoulder... no thanks, not at multi-millions.

M2
11-02-2006, 12:19 PM
For me, it's Aurilia and Schoeneweis. SS is a no-brainer -- he's a B, meaning the signing team sacrifices no picks (change in the rules, effective this year). The Reds will get a sandwich pick after the first round for him -- nice. If there are no takers -- unlikely, since he's a healthy lefty who pitched well down the stretch -- he'll be back for relatively little, and I think he'd help the pen. Weathers is problematic -- he's got a ton of saves for a guy of his ability, so I think his salary will be inflated, and the fact that he's an A, requiring the signing team to sacrifice either a 1st or 2nd, makes his market uncertain, I think, if he's offered arbitration. I don't think I'd want him back at a big #, and I wouldn't want to see a two-year deal offered him as a way of reducing the 07 salary, either. He had arm issues last year, and he's old.

Aurilia had such a good year that I think someone will want him. I'm pretty sure San Fran will bite, because their first pick is protected, and there's a good chance they'll be getting comp picks of their own for Durham and Schmidt.

Fair point on Schoeneweis not requiring a compesation pick. Add him to my list, though I wouldn't want him back (his wrinkles don't fool hitter for very long).

Weathers would be a bit of risk, but the free agent is thin and he pitched well enough the past two years. Hopefully someone comes along with a two-year offer for him and the Reds can get some draft picks. If he's back at $3 million, the Reds can afford that.

Someone definitely will sign Aurilia. Potentially that's five extra picks the club could be looking at.

dabvu2498
11-02-2006, 12:21 PM
Would Richie decline arbitration???

BRM
11-02-2006, 12:26 PM
Would Richie decline arbitration???

He would if he's looking for a multi-year deal.

RedsManRick
11-02-2006, 12:29 PM
Not sure I see how Schoeneweis is even close to worth what he got paid. He's a 33 year old career 5.00 ERA reliever coming off a year with a 4.88 ERA, 1.39 WHIP, and 29 K to 24 BB in 51 IP. This is definition replacement level performance from a reliever. He's basically Brian Shackelford with a better ability to get a ground ball. You don't pay 2.5MM+ for that, even if he did happen to be hit-lucky in his 14 IP in Cincy last year.

A LOOGY who walks too many and doesn't strike people out just isn't all that valuable. I'll take Shackelford and fill the spot with a young guy who might be legitimately useful, like Brad Salmon, and likely no worse.

lollipopcurve
11-02-2006, 01:45 PM
Not sure I see how Schoeneweis is even close to worth what he got paid. He's a 33 year old career 5.00 ERA reliever coming off a year with a 4.88 ERA, 1.39 WHIP, and 29 K to 24 BB in 51 IP. This is definition replacement level performance from a reliever. He's basically Brian Shackelford with a better ability to get a ground ball. You don't pay 2.5MM+ for that, even if he did happen to be hit-lucky in his 14 IP in Cincy last year.

A LOOGY who walks too many and doesn't strike people out just isn't all that valuable. I'll take Shackelford and fill the spot with a young guy who might be legitimately useful, like Brad Salmon, and likely no worse.

We'll just have to disagree, RMR. Relievers are all the rage, and lefties are in short supply. You think 3MM is going to scare away everybody? Teams were signing relievers like hot cakes last FA season. With rising revenues, 2.5 mill isn't much -- reportedly, the Reds will have a payroll of 75 mill. SS closed out some close games in a pennant race, and, from what I saw, he threw well (granted, small sample size, but I'll guess teams took notice).

lollipopcurve
11-02-2006, 01:55 PM
Someone definitely will sign Aurilia. Potentially that's five extra picks the club could be looking at.

Could be an anabolic infusion.

mth123
11-02-2006, 09:07 PM
We'll just have to disagree, RMR. Relievers are all the rage, and lefties are in short supply. You think 3MM is going to scare away everybody? Teams were signing relievers like hot cakes last FA season. With rising revenues, 2.5 mill isn't much -- reportedly, the Reds will have a payroll of 75 mill. SS closed out some close games in a pennant race, and, from what I saw, he threw well (granted, small sample size, but I'll guess teams took notice).

Then I let other teams pay that for him IMO. SS had a BABIP of .205 while with the Reds and a repeat is nearly impossible. He's a loogy under normal luck. The Reds have lot of LH options and Shack or Coutlangus (or maybe even Pelland or Claussen) can do the same job for $350 to 400K. The Reds would have to offer about $2.2 Million at the least based on the rules and probably $2.8 Million to have any chance of winning in the hearing. Pass.