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TC81190
11-02-2006, 08:12 PM
Whats the word Reds wise?

puca
11-02-2006, 08:25 PM
Is pipedream one or two words?

cincyinco
11-02-2006, 08:43 PM
Not sure, but I think MLB reported that the Mariners WILL NOT bid for his negotiation rights.

One front runner out of the way.

Time to pony up Bcast :p:

Outshined_One
11-03-2006, 01:27 AM
There are a lot of rumors flying around, but according to one source, a lot of teams have backed out of the bidding. These teams include the Giants, Mariners, Orioles, and Angels.

The forerunners for his services are the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Rangers, and Cubs. Teams have until Wednesday to submit their bids.

RedLegSuperStar
11-03-2006, 05:34 AM
Im sorry but i'd back down as well. You don't know how he is going to fare in the states and paying 16-17 mil per (with negotiation rights included). That's money that could be spent on resigning a couple A type FAs

Edskin
11-03-2006, 06:52 AM
Philisophically, I'd love if we're interested, that would mean BobC is true to his word. However, if a team like the Reds is going to make a giant FA splash, they best do it on known entities. Even if we increase payroll, I seriously doubt we increase it enough to be able to afford multi-million dollar busts. If we're gonna be serious about this, I say get the sure thing.

Krusty
11-03-2006, 10:18 AM
Even the big market teams might wait a year before this guy is a free agent. Why pay 10-15 million just to secure his rights then go out and sign him to a five year 60+ million deal. With that type of money, you might be able to acquire both Zito and Schimdt.

smith288
11-03-2006, 11:57 AM
Stay away from these guys. For every Ichiro, there is a Kazuo Matsui and Irabu. And they are all too expensive.

Matt700wlw
11-03-2006, 01:31 PM
Cubs.

Please no...

just in case he works out :D

M2
11-03-2006, 02:21 PM
I doubt the Reds will get into the bidding. It would be incredibly expensive and potentially foolhardy to sign him, but if the only thing the franchise did this offseason was land Matsuzaka, I'd consider it the best winter it's had in years.

Falls City Beer
11-03-2006, 02:25 PM
When I think of the yokels managing and coaching this club, I can only laugh at the notion of Matsukaza getting some minor mechanical flaw in his delivery straightened out.

Matt700wlw
11-03-2006, 03:08 PM
When I think of the yokels managing and coaching this club, I can only laugh at the notion of Matsukaza getting some minor mechanical flaw in his delivery straightened out.

yokels?

Nice word :D

Topcat
11-03-2006, 06:22 PM
When I think of the yokels managing and coaching this club, I can only laugh at the notion of Matsukaza getting some minor mechanical flaw in his delivery straightened out.


Previous regime or have you not noticed that there has been alot of movement when it comes to coaching changes?

Falls City Beer
11-03-2006, 07:07 PM
Previous regime or have you not noticed that there has been alot of movement when it comes to coaching changes?

Narron's still here. And so is his hand-picked pitching staff.

Outshined_One
11-04-2006, 12:03 PM
Looks like the shenanigans have already begun. Link (http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1162622388293870.xml&coll=1)


NEW YORK -- At least three teams have attempted under-the-table negotiations to obtain Japanese ace Daisuke Matsuzaka, a Japanese newspaper reported. Major League Baseball said yesterday that nothing has been brought to its attention.

...

Sankei Sports quoted an unnamed Seibu executive making the charge, and he refused to identify the teams. "It is tampering, so I refused to meet them," the executive said.

While the bidding process is sealed, a team could offer inducements other than cash if Seibu agreed to accept only part of the bid, allowing the team to make a larger bid to secure the right to sign Matsuzaka.

MLB, which reportedly sent out a memo to teams to warn them against tampering, said it is aware of such rumors and takes what safeguards it can against circumventing the system. And major-league teams would probably be eager to turn each other in if they had inklings of improprieties, which apparently has not happened in this case.

RedLegSuperStar
11-04-2006, 12:52 PM
MLBTradeRumors.com:

Matsuzaka Derby Down To 5?
RotoWire reports that the serious suitors for Daisuke Matsuzaka appear to be just the Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Red Sox, and Rangers. This comes after reports of many teams pulling out of the bidding - the Orioles, Dodgers, Angels, and Giants.

Smart money appears to be on New York, or maybe that's just where all the hype comes from. Hard to tell. Mike Plugh finds an interesting note in a Japanese newspaper: the Yankees may bid less than $20MM. As Plugh says, that's a surefire way to make the pitcher a Met.

I think the Cubs and Rangers might pursue Kei Igawa as Plan B, but who's to say that half the league doesn't get in on the southpaw.

dougdirt
11-08-2006, 11:27 PM
Rumor is the Texas Rangers won with a bid of 25 million dollars.

blumj
11-09-2006, 09:36 AM
I can't believe it hasn't leaked out yet which team made the highest bid.

TOBTTReds
11-09-2006, 10:11 AM
Rumor is the Texas Rangers won with a bid of 25 million dollars.

That would be amazing. NY would be peeved.

RedLegSuperStar
11-09-2006, 10:22 AM
That would be amazing. NY would be peeved.

fine with me.. wonder how much on top of that he's going to get for the contract..

BRM
11-09-2006, 10:33 AM
His Japanese club, the Pacific League's Seibu Lions, said they have been notified of the highest bid for the 26-year-old right-hander. They said they will not make a decision on whether to accept until after a meeting of their board of directors -- not expected to be held before Friday at the earliest.

LINK (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2654465)

NJReds
11-09-2006, 10:34 AM
fine with me.. wonder how much on top of that he's going to get for the contract..

The team gets the posting amount for allowing Matsukaza to negotiate.

The Lions have four days to decide wheter or not to accept the bid. If they don't accept it, Matsuzaka will pitch for them again next year and become a free agent, free of the posting system, afterward. If Matsuzaka can't work out a deal with the winning club, he'll go back to Seibu and they must return the posting fee.

RedsManRick
11-09-2006, 10:47 AM
If I'm Boras, I tell the Rangers that if they don't pony up 75/5 or something big like that, I send Matsusaka back to Japan and then watch him in FA next year.

texasdave
11-09-2006, 04:08 PM
1)What stops a team from blocking Matsuzaka from coming to the Majors? What I mean is if Toronto thinks the Yankees or Red Sox are gonna have the highest bid why wouldn't they just submit an outlandish bid they know will win and then not even negotiate a contract with Matsuzaka? That way the Japanese pitcher stays in Japan another year and the submitted bid money is returned to the Blue Jays. Or say Toronto bids 30 million for the right to negotiate and then lowballs their salary offer. They offer Matsuzaka say 35 million dollars for 5 years. That way your total outlay would be 65 million for 5 years. Since he is considered by some one of the top 10 pitchers in the world, 65 million dollars over 5 years is more than reasonable. Boras would probably tell him not to take it. But, in the end, the player makes the decision. Maybe he yens (groan) to play in the States badly enough that he accepts. In this hypothetical situation Toronto wins either way. If he accepts they have a great pitcher at a reasonable price and if he doesn't accept he doesn't play for the Yankees, Red Sox or anyone else in 2007. Unless I am missing something with regards to the whole bidding process this seems like it would work. Indeed the Reds should have tried this.

PS Sounds very Bowdenesque if you ask me.

cincyinco
11-09-2006, 04:23 PM
Isn't there something about "good-faith" in regards to the posting system? So that teams cannot do what texasdave describes?

redsmetz
11-09-2006, 04:37 PM
I doubt the Reds will get into the bidding. It would be incredibly expensive and potentially foolhardy to sign him, but if the only thing the franchise did this offseason was land Matsuzaka, I'd consider it the best winter it's had in years.

You're right. It's going to take a lot of lettuce to do this, although Bob Cast. might be the right guy to do that!

buckeyenut
11-09-2006, 07:36 PM
1)What stops a team from blocking Matsuzaka from coming to the Majors? What I mean is if Toronto thinks the Yankees or Red Sox are gonna have the highest bid why wouldn't they just submit an outlandish bid they know will win and then not even negotiate a contract with Matsuzaka? That way the Japanese pitcher stays in Japan another year and the submitted bid money is returned to the Blue Jays. Or say Toronto bids 30 million for the right to negotiate and then lowballs their salary offer. They offer Matsuzaka say 35 million dollars for 5 years. That way your total outlay would be 65 million for 5 years. Since he is considered by some one of the top 10 pitchers in the world, 65 million dollars over 5 years is more than reasonable. Boras would probably tell him not to take it. But, in the end, the player makes the decision. Maybe he yens (groan) to play in the States badly enough that he accepts. In this hypothetical situation Toronto wins either way. If he accepts they have a great pitcher at a reasonable price and if he doesn't accept he doesn't play for the Yankees, Red Sox or anyone else in 2007. Unless I am missing something with regards to the whole bidding process this seems like it would work. Indeed the Reds should have tried this.

PS Sounds very Bowdenesque if you ask me.


Probably because they have to pay that 30M whether they get him to sign or not. Lot of money to block him from signing with someone else.

Patrick Bateman
11-09-2006, 08:19 PM
Probably because they have to pay that 30M whether they get him to sign or not. Lot of money to block him from signing with someone else.

If they can't sign him, they get the posting money back.

Outshined_One
11-10-2006, 01:17 PM
Looks like the Red Sox won the bidding. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2656687)


But Olney is reporting that according to Major League Baseball officials who are monitoring the bidding, the Red Sox may have posted the top bid, with a figure between $38 million and $45 million.

:eek:

texasdave
11-10-2006, 01:42 PM
THEO EPSTEIN CHAT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"Why are we fiscally responsible? Not because we are cheap; we are not. Not because we are afraid of large commitments; we are not. Not because we would rather pursue non-tenders or particularly enjoy reading through thousands of minor league free agent reports instead; we don't (well, maybe sometimes). Quite simply, we are fiscally responsible because the alternative would be a disaster. Fiscal irresponsibility is the single quickest way to hamstring a franchise for a decade."

http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/2003/theo_chat_2.6.03.html

If Boston did submit the winning bid to negotiate for the rights to Matsuzaka the above quote by Theo Epstein seems a bit curious. Is it being fiscally responsible to shell out somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 million dollars just for the right to negotiate with Scott Boras on a contract for a somewhat unproven pitcher? This pitcher has never thrown a single pitch in the majors and is going to cost along the lines of 15 million dollars a year for 4 or 5 years. Or maybe Theo is just blocking Matsuzaka from ending up wearing the pinstripes of the Evil Empire.

texasdave
11-10-2006, 02:36 PM
This is an interesting article on Matsuzaka. If you scroll to the bottom and look at the right hand side there are articles concerning Matsuzaka and Pitcher Abuse Points, and his projected Major League Equivalents.

http://matsuzaka.blogspot.com/

blumj
11-10-2006, 02:37 PM
I still think the whole thing is fixed, and, if it's true that the Red Sox made an absurdly large bid, it's precisely because it's fixed. They're not really paying $40 million or whatever it is, for his rights. They're either paying the previously agreed upon fixing price, or they're trying to screw up his previously agreed upon fixing price for another team. If the Lions are supposed to turn down any bid that isn't for the previously agreed upon amount, and they get this huge amount for a bid instead, do they take it, and disregard the prior arrangement, or do they try to bump up the previously agreed on amount to get it closer to this new offer? Or do they have to turn down an absurd amount of money that will get leaked out, with everyone wondering why they turned it down?

Jr's Boy
11-10-2006, 04:18 PM
I'm sure Steinbrenner will step up to the plate if the Redsox are getting involved.

Chip R
11-10-2006, 04:25 PM
I take it these are the same Red Sox who whined last year about the Yankees outspending them. :rolleyes:

CrackerJack
11-10-2006, 04:28 PM
Nobody's worth that much.

Plus the Reds' got Bubba Crosby now - who needs him! :)

RedsManRick
11-10-2006, 04:29 PM
For the Red Sox, like the Yankees are at the point where "value", the ratio of talent per dollar spent, goes to crap. You only have 25 spots on your major league roster and though, say, Vincente Padilla might be a better value at 10 million, the bottom line is that talent necessary to virtually gaurantee a playoff spot costs more than that. Not making the playoffs this year cost the Red Sox 10's of millions of dollars.

To make talent gains at their level, the investment is worth it. If Matsusaka is as good as they say he is (top 10 starter in baseball), then spending 20-22 million for him is about as smart an investment as their is for them.

Outshined_One
11-11-2006, 01:50 AM
Scott Boras was on XM Radio earlier denying the Red Sox rumor.

blumj
11-11-2006, 09:39 PM
Scott Boras was on XM Radio earlier denying the Red Sox rumor.

Just to highlight how absurd this whole process is, Boras isn't supposed to know who submitted the highest bid, so there's no way he should be capable of denying their identity on a radio interview.

Reds Fanatic
11-14-2006, 08:35 PM
Red Sox have won the right to negotiate with Matsukaka. It cost them 51.1 million just to have the right to try to sign him in the next 30 days.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2662193


NAPLES, Fla. -- The Boston Red Sox emerged Tuesday night as winners of the bidding for Daisuke Matsuzaka with a $51.1 million offer and have 30 days to sign the Japanese pitcher to a contract.

The Seibu Lions of Japan's Pacific League announced they had accepted the high bid -- ESPN's Peter Gammons this week reported the figure to be $42 million -- for their prized pitcher, and the major league commissioner's office simultaneously confirmed at the general managers' meetings that the Red Sox had made the offer.

"We're very pleased and excited. We've long admired Mr. Matsuzaka," Boston general manager Theo Epstein said. "Matsuzaka has a real talent. He would be a great fit with the Red Sox organization.

"We're excited to have won this part of the process. We're hopeful we can reach an agreement."

Even before the announcement, general managers had assumed Boston would be the highest bidder in the blind process.

"We'll congratulate the winner and move on," New York Yankees GM Brian Cashman said Tuesday afternoon.

Matsuzaka is represented by Scott Boras, who last year negotiated the deal that moved center fielder Johnny Damon from the Red Sox to the Yankees.

"Pitching, as usual, is at a premium," Boras said.

flyer85
11-14-2006, 08:38 PM
and people think that the off-season may not be beyond ridiculous.

cincinnati chili
11-15-2006, 07:55 AM
The "Red Sox" are pretty much an entertainment company, which includes the television station NESN. From what I hear, the "Red Sox" will more than make up the $50 million by extending its broadcast and marketing capabilities to Japan.

If true, this deal is a no-brainer for the Red Sox. Best of all, any money that NESN makes does not have to be shared in revenue sharing. Also, the $51 million bid does not need to be shared in revenue sharing.

So what seems crazy on first blush may actually be a great move.

RFS62
11-15-2006, 08:01 AM
The "Red Sox" are pretty much an entertainment company, which includes the television station NESN. From what I hear, the "Red Sox" will more than make up the $50 million by extending its broadcast and marketing capabilities to Japan.

If true, this deal is a no-brainer for the Red Sox. Best of all, any money that NESN makes does not have to be shared in revenue sharing. Also, the $51 million bid does not need to be shared in revenue sharing.

So what seems crazy on first blush may actually be a great move.



No kidding. And such a media and marketing relationship in Japan would set them up pretty nicely for future players coming to MLB.

M2
11-15-2006, 10:17 AM
The "Red Sox" are pretty much an entertainment company, which includes the television station NESN. From what I hear, the "Red Sox" will more than make up the $50 million by extending its broadcast and marketing capabilities to Japan.

If true, this deal is a no-brainer for the Red Sox. Best of all, any money that NESN makes does not have to be shared in revenue sharing. Also, the $51 million bid does not need to be shared in revenue sharing.

So what seems crazy on first blush may actually be a great move.

Wow, thinking like a business instead of like a parks and rec department. Novel concept.

Cyclone792
11-15-2006, 11:21 AM
Then we've got this piece from Gammons:

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2662247&name=gammons_peter


When Theo Epstein left the Red Sox last fall, after he turned down the Dodger job, he worked with two Japanese teams as a consultant. Epstein believes in the next decade the mass of baseball talent coming out of Asia will alter the landscape, and his owners want to be entrenched in Japan as well as China; they signed three prominent Taiwanese prospects this spring, and are looking into establishing complexes in Taiwan and mainland China.

Scott Boras is claiming that he's heard from Japanese sources that Matsui brings in $21 million per season for the Yankees in advertising and marketing, and that based off those figures he wasn't surprised by the Red Sox's bid of over $51 million.

Of course, there's other factors at work here too. First is the whole Boras disclaimer and the fact that nobody knows if he's telling the truth or not. But let's assume for a moment that he is (I know, it's tough).

Excluding baseball, New York may be more important than Boston as a market for Japanese advertisers anyway, which would give a slight boost to any New York baseball teams. Also, internationally, the Yankees are probably more well-known than Boston with a larger fanbase outside America's borders. Those are just two factors that could play in Matsui generating that much revenue in marketing for the Yanks.

As it stands, though, the Red Sox have to have a general idea what kind of revenue stream they'll bring in via marketing and the extension of their fanbase by signing Matsuzaka. Additionally, this could help them be one of the first teams to really start tapping into the Asian market for baseball players and getting a jumpstart on most of the rest of MLB in that regard.

The signing's a gamble, and it's a lot of money. But it has a pretty decent chance to pay massive dividends for the Red Sox as a franchise altogether for many, many years.