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Tom Servo
11-02-2006, 10:11 PM
I've noticed in most Redzoner's 2007 rotations the man who was considered the Reds second best pitcher in 2005 is in very few. Has everyone giving up on Claussen already? He definatly wasn't on top of his game this last year, but he had his fair share of good outings given his injured state. If he's healthy enough I think he's a good option for a good cheap 5th starter if we can get a good #3 guy through trade or free agency, giving us a rotation of Harang, Arroyo, the FA, Milton, and Claussen. It's a risk but it could save some money to go improve the team in other places instead of the rotation.

Anybody know how Claussen's been doing since being shut down back in August?

Will M
11-02-2006, 11:03 PM
1. Arroyo
2. Harang
3. Lohse or upgrade
4. Milton ( with Bailey replacing him mid 2007 )
5. EZ, Claussen or Belisle

Claussen has to win the 5th starters job in spring training or go to the pen/AAA

SeeinRed
11-02-2006, 11:10 PM
Its not that Claussen doesn't have the "stuff," or hasn't had some good starts. Its just that he isn't consistent. Not even remotely consistent, and doesn't show any signs that it will change. Claussen pitched his way out of the rotation and his only way back in is to pitch himself in.

vaticanplum
11-02-2006, 11:22 PM
Personally, I'm still wary of his injuries. And his durability in general, natch.

TheWalls
11-03-2006, 10:09 AM
Its not that Claussen doesn't have the "stuff," or hasn't had some good starts. Its just that he isn't consistent. Not even remotely consistent, and doesn't show any signs that it will change. Claussen pitched his way out of the rotation and his only way back in is to pitch himself in.

Couldn't agree more. Terrific stuff, horrible approach. I wish he would attack hitters, cut down on the pitch count, go deeper in games and let his defense help him.

BRM
11-03-2006, 10:15 AM
1. Arroyo
2. Harang
3. Lohse or upgrade
4. Milton ( with Bailey replacing him mid 2007 )
5. EZ, Claussen or Belisle

Claussen has to win the 5th starters job in spring training or go to the pen/AAA

I cringe every time I see a projected rotation that has Lohse AND Milton in it.

corkedbat
11-03-2006, 10:45 AM
My hope for the next pitching coach is someone who has a knack for "reaching" the Brandon Claussen's of the baseball world, mining the talent and developing constency.

Chip R
11-03-2006, 10:50 AM
Couldn't agree more. Terrific stuff, horrible approach. I wish he would attack hitters, cut down on the pitch count, go deeper in games and let his defense help him.


I'm not so sure how much his defense will "help" him.

That said, I wonder if his approach is more because of pitching coaches and catchers telling him to pitch like that or just his own doing?

It seems to me that most of the staff has a problem with attacking hitters and high pitch counts. Even Arroyo and Harang, with all their success, seem to throw more pitches than necessary. I know they are strikeout pitchers and high pitch counts come with the territory but it seems that it could be alleviated somewhat with a better approach.

Redhook
11-03-2006, 11:24 AM
1. Arroyo
2. Harang
3. Lohse or upgrade
4. Milton ( with Bailey replacing him mid 2007 )
5. EZ, Claussen or Belisle

Claussen has to win the 5th starters job in spring training or go to the pen/AAA

If that's our rotation, we'll be in deep, deep trouble. I'm hoping, at the worst, Lohse and Milton slide down to #4 and #5, with a shiny new #3 pitcher. And at best, I'd like to only see Milton in there at the #5 spot, with EZ/Claussen/Belisle ready to slide into the rotation when/if injuries occur.

As for Claussen, he proved to me last year that he isn't mentally tough enough to be a good major league starter. Average at best, IMO. I'll be surprised if he starts the year as one of the starter's.

BRM
11-03-2006, 11:32 AM
If that's our rotation, we'll be in deep, deep trouble. I'm hoping, at the worst, Lohse and Milton slide down to #4 and #5, with a shiny new #3 pitcher. And at best, I'd like to only see Milton in there at the #5 spot, with EZ/Claussen/Belisle ready to slide into the rotation when/if injuries occur.

As for Claussen, he proved to me last year that he isn't mentally tough enough to be a good major league starter. Average at best, IMO. I'll be surprised if he starts the year as one of the starter's.

Lohse or Milton gone with the other in the #5 spot along with upgrades at the #3 and #4 is what I'd like to see.

Redhook
11-03-2006, 11:34 AM
Lohse or Milton gone with the other in the #5 spot along with upgrades at the #3 and #4 is what I'd like to see.

Me too, I just don't see any scenario where Milton won't be in our starting rotation next year. We're stuck with him for one more year, unfortunately.

BRM
11-03-2006, 11:38 AM
Me too, I just don't see any scenario where Milton won't be in our starting rotation next year. We're stuck with him for one more year, unfortunately.

Then send Lohse away and upgrade the #3 and #4 slots, if possible.

Will M
11-03-2006, 12:16 PM
1. Arroyo
2. Harang
3. Lohse or upgrade
4. Milton ( with Bailey replacing him mid 2007 )
5. EZ, Claussen or Belisle

Lohse is likely better than Belisle ( can't stay healthy ) or Claussen ( can't stay healthy or consistent ) or EZ ( durability issues ).

Milton isn't going anywhere until he can prove he is healthy.
Mth123 has mentioned many times a scenario where Milton is traded mid 2007 & Bailey called up.

Options for #3 starter who is better than Lohse:
1. Zito or Schmidt $$$$$
2. Lilly, Ohka, Padilla,etc - $$$-$$$$ and none of these is really all that great.
3. WK miracle trade - ie another Arroyo
4. Bailey COULD be that #3 in 2008 not 2007

BRM
11-03-2006, 12:18 PM
Like Redhook said, if that's the rotation next year, the Reds will be going nowhere fast.

dfs
11-03-2006, 12:54 PM
About the reds suspected rotation. Jerry Narron is into experience. I'll be shocked if The Lizard, Belisle or Claussen get 20 starts collectively next year.

I don't know who is going to be in the reds rotation for 2007, but after the way the Lizard's season ended, I simply can't see Jerry Narron penciling him into the rotation on a full time basis. The Lizard's big asset was that he didn't fall apart on the mound. Midseason the reds have a big series with the Cards. The Lizard absolutely loses it on the mound. A total loss of composure. Effectively it ended his season. The day before his next start he's asked to pitch in the bottom of the 16th inning or so where he gives it up and they lose. He comes out the next day and gets absolutely shelled and after the game Narron says it had already been determined that he was going to AAA before the start of this last game. Rameriz goes to AAA throws....10 pitches and goes on the DL. He's not bound for next years rotation.

Likewise, I have to think Claussen is now in the Luke Hudson bin of reds pitchers. He's been effective, but he always had an inning or two where he just totally seemed to lose control. After this last injury, it will be an upset if he comes back.

The same is true for Belisle. He's generally effective when he's healthy, but ...well young guys with back injuries don't tend to suddenly become healthy.

Leaving Narron's preference for vet's aside, these guys are Paul Wilson. If they contribute anything...that's great. But planning on these guys contributing would be very shortsighted.

jimbo
11-03-2006, 02:52 PM
As for Claussen, he proved to me last year that he isn't mentally tough enough to be a good major league starter. Average at best, IMO.

I think this statement about Claussen says it best. I haven't been a fan of his from day one. He's got all the physical tools, but lacks the mental game to become a good big league pitcher. A good major league pitcher dictates to the hitter that the plate belongs to him, Claussen allows the hitter to dicate that because in my opinion, he is soft. I'd rather give that 5th spot to someone like EZ. I lost any respect I had for Claussen last season after he made the comment he was "pitching scared" against the Brewers. I wouldn't lose any sleep if I never saw Claussen throw another pitch for the Reds.

Spring~Fields
11-03-2006, 04:31 PM
I still think Claussen might find a better career in the bullpen, but that remains to be seen, he seems to be good for 2-4 innings.

Chip R
11-03-2006, 05:07 PM
I still think Claussen might find a better career in the bullpen, but that remains to be seen, he seems to be good for 2-4 innings.


Unfortunately, we don't know which 2-4 innings those are.

RedFanAlways1966
11-03-2006, 05:38 PM
Brandon Claussen as a REDS starter (2004-2006):
* 57 GS, 5.14 ERA, 1.52 WHIP.

All REDS starters (2004-2006)
* 467 GS, 5.05 ERA, 1.45 WHIP.

The REDS have not exactly been known for strong starting pitching in the last 3 years. If your ERA and WHIP is higher than the total of the entire staff over that time, then I'd have no problem with seeing you hit the road.

Spring~Fields
11-03-2006, 07:39 PM
Unfortunately, we don't know which 2-4 innings those are.

Yeah, he can't do well as a starter and he apparently has no value as a relief pitcher, sounds like he is right at home with the Reds. I think that one Reds TV announcer had him good for about 60-65 pitches, so that probably would fit in somewhere between the first and ninth inning.

fearofpopvol1
11-03-2006, 11:28 PM
I think you give him a shot for the 5th slot in the rotation. He wasn't healthy last year and he showed signs of improvement for the latter half of the 2005 season. I think the comparisons to Hudson are off. Hudson is a few years older. Brandon is not THAT old. Give him 1 more shot and see how he performs.

jmac
11-04-2006, 04:10 AM
if claussen is healthy.....send him to louisville and then if he could pitch decent,maybe trade bait.
i'm sorry but i just dont see much more than a "fill in " when needing an emergency starter.
for some reason, just thinkin of him facing the cubs or brewers send shivers down a spine.
if there was a baseball depth chart, he would be below EZ,belisle,bailey on mine and i'm not that high on EZ and belisle either.

TeamBoone
11-04-2006, 12:12 PM
I don't know who is going to be in the reds rotation for 2007, but after the way the Lizard's season ended, I simply can't see Jerry Narron penciling him into the rotation on a full time basis. The Lizard's big asset was that he didn't fall apart on the mound. Midseason the reds have a big series with the Cards. The Lizard absolutely loses it on the mound. A total loss of composure. Effectively it ended his season. The day before his next start he's asked to pitch in the bottom of the 16th inning or so where he gives it up and they lose. He comes out the next day and gets absolutely shelled and after the game Narron says it had already been determined that he was going to AAA before the start of this last game. Rameriz goes to AAA throws....10 pitches and goes on the DL. He's not bound for next years rotation.

What on earth happened to him anyway?

He pitched well in the beginning and then went to you-know-what in a hurry. I thought he was being sent down to get it together and was supposed to be back but that never happened.

I didn't realize that he was on the DL. What was his injury?

If he could regain what he had to start with in 2006, why couldn't he come back and be effective once more? He's very young so his upside could be huge.