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NJReds
11-03-2006, 10:25 AM
This nugget from St. Louis paper buried a few paragraphs down in an article about Mulder; but I thought this was interesting. I didn't realize that Gonzalez was 40. I'm not sure that's a direction I go if I'm the Reds. Especially if there's a lot of interest that will raise his price.

link (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/A519BBBB2736CD918625721B0018D6C2?OpenDocument)



Whenever the GM and agent talk, another name is expected to come up: Luis Gonzalez.

The veteran outfielder, who will turn 40 next September, is also represented by Clifton and apparently caught Cardinals fever while broadcasting playoff games last month. Clifton said nine teams have contacted him about Gonzalez, who finished second in the NL with a career-high 52 doubles this season. Cleveland, Baltimore, Texas, Cincinnati and San Francisco are five of the nine.

The Cardinals are not, for now. Jocketty did attempt to trade for Gonzalez, a lefthanded-hitting left fielder, this past summer and said Thursday he still had interest in Gonzalez.

"I saw him during the playoffs, and he said in St. Louis that he'd never seen fans like that," Clifton said. "I've said all along, for me, I think Luis, well, you talk about a perfect fit for a guy and for a franchise. That's it.
Veteran guy. In that atmosphere. He's got a lot left in the tank."

BRM
11-03-2006, 10:27 AM
Well, if Dunn and/or Junior gets traded, the Reds will need to acquire offense somewhere. I'm not sure Gonzalez is where I'd look though.

NJReds
11-03-2006, 10:29 AM
Apperently the Giants are extremely interested. He'd fit right in that clubhouse, age-wise.

savafan
11-03-2006, 10:32 AM
Apperently the Giants are extremely interested. He'd fit right in that clubhouse, age-wise.

Didn't Bochy say he wanted the Giants to get younger?

marcshoe
11-03-2006, 10:34 AM
Drop Bonds, pick up Gonzalez, you get younger.

Okay, not significantly younger, but younger nonetheless.

Johnny Footstool
11-03-2006, 11:09 AM
He'd be a great fit in St. Louis. Great for the rest of the division, that is.

Gonzo's HGH prescription has run out. He's done.

smith288
11-03-2006, 11:58 AM
No thanks. Dude's old and always seems to have steroid questions swirling around him.

We need right handed power.

Falls City Beer
11-03-2006, 12:00 PM
Wayne's trying to amass the All-Announcer's Booth Team: first, lil Thommy; now, Luis.

The first scent of the offseason stinks.

BRM
11-03-2006, 12:04 PM
The first scent of the offseason stinks.

Can you smell what Wayne is cooking?!?!?!

:)

GAC
11-03-2006, 12:56 PM
This nugget from St. Louis paper buried a few paragraphs down

I think it is more of a turd. ;)

No way they Reds are interested in Gonzalez (39), who makes 10.6 MIl/yr. His rep, Mr Clifton, and as any agent will do, is simply throwing out names to drum up interest for his client who has basically been run out of Arizona.

redsupport
11-03-2006, 12:57 PM
Claude Sullivan and Jim MCINtyre are next

NJReds
11-03-2006, 01:08 PM
I think it is more of a turd. ;)

No way they Reds are interested in Gonzalez (39), who makes 10.6 MIl/yr. His rep, Mr Clifton, and as any agent will do, is simply throwing out names to drum up interest for his client who has basically been run out of Arizona.


I hope you're right, but if an agent was throwing out names and there was no truth to it, wouldn't he be writing his quick ticket out of the agent business. Who'd deal with him? The Reds must have at least inquired about LG.

Heath
11-03-2006, 01:19 PM
I hope you're right, but if an agent was throwing out names and there was no truth to it, wouldn't he be writing his quick ticket out of the agent business. Who'd deal with him? The Reds must have at least inquired about LG.

Sure they inquired. After a brief 45 second conversation, WayneK hung up shaking his head.

They put the Reds down as a "reference".

flyer85
11-03-2006, 01:23 PM
Seeing as WK was part of the Twins org that thought White and Batista were useful last off-season I could see him having interest in Luis.

GAC
11-03-2006, 01:30 PM
I hope you're right, but if an agent was throwing out names and there was no truth to it, wouldn't he be writing his quick ticket out of the agent business. Who'd deal with him?

Agents do it all the time. And I'm not saying they may not have inquired. I just don't think there was much seriousness to it, and not much for any of us to get concerned over.

Caseyfan21
11-03-2006, 01:40 PM
I think the Reds should have an interest in him, especially if they are serious about trading Dunn. Gonzo is a still a good player as witnessed by his stats the past two years. While he isn't the player he was back in 2000-2002, hitting about .270 with 15-20 homers and 70 rbi's is still pretty decent. He is also a great leader which I think the Reds could use as well since guys like Jr. aren't always as vocal. He may be getting older but he did hit over 50 doubles last year and has played 150+ games each of the last two years. His OPS has been a little low but still wasn't significantly under his career average. If the Reds move Dunn or Jr., there will be a hole to fill in the outfield and Luis Gonzalez is definately a better option than anyone else in house other than Deno or Freel.

GAC
11-03-2006, 01:51 PM
I think the Reds should have an interest in him, especially if they are serious about trading Dunn. Gonzo is a still a good player as witnessed by his stats the past two years. While he isn't the player he was back in 2000-2002, hitting about .270 with 15-20 homers and 70 rbi's is still pretty decent. He is also a great leader which I think the Reds could use as well since guys like Jr. aren't always as vocal. He may be getting older but he did hit over 50 doubles last year and has played 150+ games each of the last two years. His OPS has been a little low but still wasn't significantly under his career average. If the Reds move Dunn or Jr., there will be a hole to fill in the outfield and Luis Gonzalez is definately a better option than anyone else in house other than Deno or Freel.


10.6 Mil/yr should dissuade anyone.

I'll keep a younger (and cheaper) Adam Dunn.

Heck... if you're looking at spending that kind of money, then throw it at a Carlos Lee.

klw
11-03-2006, 01:54 PM
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/10/20/Rays/Gonzalez_would_consid.shtml

Link above is about his interest in the Devil Rays and his motivation to at least be able to sniff a ring. I think at he would be a solid 1 or 2 yr pickup at a reasonable price if other moves open space.

toledodan
11-03-2006, 01:56 PM
10.6 Mil/yr should dissuade anyone.

I'll keep a younger (and cheaper) Adam Dunn.

Heck... if you're looking at spending that kind of money, then throw it at a Carlos Lee.



DING! DING! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

carlos lee would be a great start especially if we move dunn.

GAC
11-03-2006, 01:56 PM
And if you want something cheaper, and he is a FA..... Frank Catalanotto

flyer85
11-03-2006, 01:57 PM
carlos lee would be a great start especially if we move dunn.be ready to pony up ~ $13M-14M+ a year for the pleasure.

Patrick Bateman
11-03-2006, 02:06 PM
10.6 Mil/yr should dissuade anyone.

I'll keep a younger (and cheaper) Adam Dunn.

Heck... if you're looking at spending that kind of money, then throw it at a Carlos Lee.


He will likely only cost half that amount.

The reason I don't want Gonzalez, is that he isn't a very good hitter anymore, can't field, and will have to give him 4-5M. He wont come close to 10.6M/year.

GAC
11-03-2006, 02:06 PM
be ready to pony up ~ $13M-14M+ a year for the pleasure.

True. But I'd rather spend that extra if you're even considering a 40 yr old Gonzalez at almost 11 Mil/yr.

GAC
11-03-2006, 02:08 PM
He will likely only cost half that amount.

The reason I don't want Gonzalez, is that he isn't a very good hitter anymore, can't field, and will have to give him 4-5M. He wont come close to 10.6M/year.

And that's why I'd rather have the Reds, if they need another OFer, go after someone like Frank Catalanotto.

Patrick Bateman
11-03-2006, 02:12 PM
And that's why I'd rather have the Reds, if they need another OFer, go after someone like Frank Catalanotto.

That's a fine idea, but no team is considering Gonzalaez as 11M.

GAC
11-03-2006, 02:19 PM
That's a fine idea, but no team is considering Gonzalaez as 11M.

That's true. But I wouldn't want him for half that. There are younger and better OFers available IMO.

flyer85
11-03-2006, 02:23 PM
What is the point of Gonzalez when in no way, shape or form will he make this team a contender in 2006. This team would have to figure out how to get +150 run differential to be a serious contender, and this is very unlikely to happen.

Patrick Bateman
11-03-2006, 02:23 PM
That's true. But I wouldn't want him for half that. There are younger and better OFers available IMO.

Agreed.

NJReds
11-03-2006, 02:28 PM
What is the point of Gonzalez when in no way, shape or form will he make this team a contender in 2006. This team would have to figure out how to get +150 run differential to be a serious contender, and this is very unlikely to happen.

+150 would put us in Yankees, Tigers territory (2006). I don't see that type of turnaround being possible. And it would make us more than just contenders. It'd make us favorites. I think the Mets were only +100.

flyer85
11-03-2006, 02:36 PM
+150 would put us in Yankees, Tigers territory (2006). I don't see that type of turnaround being possible. And it would make us more than just contenders. It'd make us favorites. I think the Mets were only +100.
Yanks were +170, Tigers were +150, the Reds were -50.

+150 run differential from 2006 would put the Reds in the +100 range which is where you want to be for a solid contender. 2006 was likely to be an aberration with so many mediocre teams being in the hunt.

Reds were 22nd in RS and 11th in RA. The offense is an issue to address but I think a Dunn/Deno/Jr OF is going to be more productive than a scenario that includes Luis.

NJReds
11-03-2006, 02:55 PM
+150 run differential from 2006 would put the Reds in the +100 range which is where you want to be for a solid contender. 2006 was likely to be an aberration with so many mediocre teams being in the hunt.

I misunderstood you...I thought you meant they had to get to +150 not improve by +150. The Mets were about +100 last year.


Reds were 22nd in RS and 11th in RA. The offense is an issue to address but I think a Dunn/Deno/Jr OF is going to be more productive than a scenario that includes Luis.

I agree. I want no part of Luis Gonzalez, either.

Spring~Fields
11-03-2006, 02:57 PM
10.6 Mil/yr should dissuade anyone.

I'll keep a younger (and cheaper) Adam Dunn.

Heck... if you're looking at spending that kind of money, then throw it at a Carlos Lee.

Doesn't Dunns contract call for 10mil + next season and then in his last year, 2008 13mil+? Someone wrote on Reds Live that Dunn's contract says that he can't be traded if they keep him in 08, implying he can just walk and the Reds get nothing in return. So Lee at 14million would be about a wash except Lee has better stats if I recall correctly and could be traded in the future.

Caseyfan21
11-03-2006, 03:03 PM
10.6 Mil/yr should dissuade anyone.

I'll keep a younger (and cheaper) Adam Dunn.

Heck... if you're looking at spending that kind of money, then throw it at a Carlos Lee.

Isn't that his current contract number? I would assume he would get significantly less than that at this point in his career which was why I thought the Reds should be interested. If he still wants that kind of money he can go look for it in St. Louis.

He isn't worth more than 5 mill at this point and that's even stretching it.

GAC
11-03-2006, 03:04 PM
Doesn't Dunns contract call for 10mil + next season and then in his last year, 2008 13mil+?

That's true


Someone wrote on Reds Live that Dunn's contract says that he can't be traded if they keep him in 08, implying he can just walk and the Reds get nothing in return.

That's baloney. In '08 he has a 500 K buyout that is voided if traded.

Spring~Fields
11-03-2006, 03:08 PM
That's true



That's baloney. In '08 he has a 500 K buyout that is voided if traded.

Okay then, 13 mil for Dunn or 14 mil for Carlos Lee or A. Ramirez would be about the same except in the stats. Aren't they upgrades?

GAC
11-03-2006, 03:12 PM
Okay then, 13 mil for Dunn or 14 mil for Carlos Lee or A. Ramirez would be about the same except in the stats. Aren't they upgrades?

The only way you go after a Lee is if you have a solid deal somewhere for Dunn. Personally, I'd just as soon keep Adam and focus spending that money in dire areas of lack..... pitching and defense.

The only way I would trade Adam Dunn is if someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse. And then there would be that need to replace that run production... and a guy like Lee would fit that bill.

Spring~Fields
11-03-2006, 03:15 PM
The only way you go after a Lee is if you have a solid deal somewhere for Dunn. Personally, I'd just as soon keep Adam and focus spending that money in dire areas of lack..... pitching and defense.

The only way I would trade Adam Dunn is if someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse. And then there would be that need to replace that run production... and a guy like Lee would fit that bill.

Carlos Lee or A. Ramirez can help replace the run production, and surely some team would be just drooling to get a great player like Adam Dunn, good pitching, fine young up and coming players in return etc. So you would have to pony up the difference for one year in salary.

There are second basemen and center fielders on the market that won't break the bank to solve the defensive problem and to help the run differential.

MartyFan
11-03-2006, 03:53 PM
Didn't Bochy say he wanted the Giants to get younger?

Exsctly...which is why Gonzo fits into their youth movement.

jimbo
11-03-2006, 04:23 PM
So Lee at 14million would be about a wash except Lee has better stats if I recall correctly and could be traded in the future.

Lee is also probably the only defensive left fielder in the league that is worse than Dunn.

Johnny Footstool
11-03-2006, 04:30 PM
Lee is also probably the only defensive left fielder in the league that is worse than Dunn.

Luis Gonzalez can't throw since his elbow injury. Can't throw at all. Makes Chad Pennington look like Carson Palmer.

flyer85
11-03-2006, 04:32 PM
Luis Gonzalez can't throw since his elbow injury. maybe he could learn to drop kick the ball like O'Neill did once.

Spring~Fields
11-03-2006, 06:30 PM
Lee is also probably the only defensive left fielder in the league that is worse than Dunn.

Not real sure about that, ESPN stats have Dunn last among the qualified and Lee is positioned above him some.

Perhaps I misinterpreted their stats you can check here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=9&season=2006&seasonType=2&split=83&sortOrder=true&sortColumn=fieldingPct

Cooper
11-03-2006, 06:41 PM
Preston Wilson is a bad LFer --worse than Dunn.

jimbo
11-03-2006, 06:45 PM
Not real sure about that, ESPN stats have Dunn last among the qualified and Lee is positioned above him some.

Perhaps I misinterpreted their stats you can check here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding?groupId=9&season=2006&seasonType=2&split=83&sortOrder=true&sortColumn=fieldingPct

I wasn't basing my opinion on fielding percentage. I just remember watching Lee play LF when the Brewers played the Reds and thinking that he had to be the slowest outfielder I've ever seen. It was almost comical watching him, he can't get to anything. But, he sure can hit and that's what he gets paid for.

mth123
11-03-2006, 07:52 PM
I view Gonzalez in the same way I view Klesko. He is a better hitter than Hat and Hat can come off the bench. Gonzalez would be a decent 1B pick-up. I don't generally like moving OF to 1B with the idea that its automatic, but Gonzalez was an INF in the minors and played 1B-3B. He came up as a 3B option with Houston when Caminiti blew him off the position. As for his offense, he isn't what he once was but he hit 15 HR and 52 2B in 2006. 69 Extra base hits (2 3B) is still pretty good. His other numbers .273/.357/.447/.804. He was better in the 2nd half. Get him for less than $3 Million for a year and I'd be ok with it.

At worst, he's a vet that can be dealt in July for a prospect.

GAC
11-04-2006, 05:19 AM
Carlos Lee or A. Ramirez can help replace the run production, and surely some team would be just drooling to get a great player like Adam Dunn, good pitching, fine young up and coming players in return etc. So you would have to pony up the difference for one year in salary.

But you also have to consider (speaking hypothetically) that just as we might show an interest in Lee and/or Rameriz, so are alot of other teams.

Who would they rather have?..... Lee or Dunn. They can sign Lee as a FA, and all they lose are draft picks. They'd have to give up more to acquire Adam Dunn. If they have the money, they can lock up Lee for several years and be done with it. Dunn's contract expires after next year, and then he is a FA. Do they want to have to deal with that?

Looks like the Angels have targeted Rameriz. ;)

Spring~Fields
11-04-2006, 01:59 PM
But you also have to consider (speaking hypothetically) that just as we might show an interest in Lee and/or Rameriz, so are alot of other teams. That is where you, I and probably many others agree for certain, most discussion regarding trades or free agents is fun, but it is also hypothetical discussion, borderline fantasy. Yes, the market and many other factors will determine where a given player ends up signing.


Who would they rather have?..... Lee or Dunn. They can sign Lee as a FA, and all they lose are draft picks. They'd have to give up more to acquire Adam Dunn. If they have the money, they can lock up Lee for several years and be done with it. Dunn's contract expires after next year, and then he is a FA. Do they want to have to deal with that? It is not known how much they will actually have to give up for Dunn, prospects, cash, impact players to date or all the above, but it will be known what the risk for Carlos Lee might cost them in dollars and contract years. The Reds will face the questions of keeping Dunn after 2008, that is if he wants to stay with a team that is consistently hovering at or below .500, knowing that Griffey will be gone, do the Reds want to pay over 13 million in 2009 to resign Dunn? Better question why would Dunn want to stay with a team that is going to take years to build up through the minor league system, surely he wants to be on a winner.

Personally I would like to see the Reds have Dunn and Lee signed, but that is probably a big fantasy. But I would prefer Mr. Dunn to have the personal hitting instructor that he had when he was in AA-AAA and really showed how great of a hitter he can be. For some reason the guy that Dunn credited back then left the Reds organization, and since then they have never been wise enough to even inlist the man as a consultant to help their 10million dollar investment.


Looks like the Angels have targeted Rameriz. ;) Let's hope that Lou doesn't have him and he does go to the Angels. Yet, you know those teams that are serious about winning tend to go after the better players, and Castellini did say, "that I as a fan can assume" ;)

red-in-la
11-04-2006, 02:54 PM
who finished second in the NL with a career-high 52 doubles this season.

Interesting progression for Gonzalez.....come up as a slap hitter......then seemingly comes the JUICE.....then lead the league in HR's.....then come drug tests......then lead the league in doubles.

Soon he will probably lead the league in having the bat bounced right from his hands by 83 mph fastballs.

I would pass and double pass on all of these 40 somethings that are FA's....including Gonzo.

red-in-la
11-04-2006, 02:57 PM
But you also have to consider (speaking hypothetically) that just as we might show an interest in Lee and/or Rameriz, so are alot of other teams.

Who would they rather have?..... Lee or Dunn. They can sign Lee as a FA, and all they lose are draft picks. They'd have to give up more to acquire Adam Dunn. If they have the money, they can lock up Lee for several years and be done with it. Dunn's contract expires after next year, and then he is a FA. Do they want to have to deal with that?

Looks like the Angels have targeted Rameriz. ;)

Do you mean they should sign Lee and keep Dunn...at least for 2007?

I am not sure where you could play these two lead gloved guys.

I would LOVE to see Carlos Lee followed by Dunn in the line up, but the defense would take a serious hit (again).

Jpup
11-04-2006, 06:59 PM
Give me David Dellucci.

Spring~Fields
11-04-2006, 09:11 PM
Give me David Dellucci.

I kind of like him also along with Frank Catalanoto