View Full Version : RedsZone Hall of Fame, Version 2006-07 - First Basemen

11-05-2006, 10:24 PM
RedsZone Hall of Fame Catchers Poll (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52235) is open until November 12th, 2006.

Vote for all FIRST BASEMEN you believe should be in the Hall of Fame. This is a multiple-choice poll so you're allowed to vote for more than one player.

For reference purposes: Major League Baseball Hall of Fame First Basemen (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/pos&1B.htm)

Previously Elected First Basemen: Cap Anson, Jimmie Foxx, Lou Gehrig, Hank Greenberg, Harmon Killebrew, Willie McCovey, Johnny Mize, Eddie Murray, and Tony Perez

Dropped From Ballot: Joe Adcock, Bill Buckner, Dolph Camilli, Phil Cavaretta, Chris Chambliss, Cecil Cooper, Jake Daubert, Harry Davis, Ron Fairly, Elbie Fletcher, Jack Fournier, Mike Hargrove, Kent Hrbek, Joe Judge, George Kelly, Ed Konetchy, Joe Kuhel, John Mayberry, Frank McCormick, Stuffy McInnis, George Scott, Roy Sievers, Fred Tenney, Hal Trosky, Bob Watson, Bill White, and Rudy York

Players from earlier eras may be lesser known among some RedsZone voters, but in the efforts of encouraging everybody to vote while also maintaining a somewhat level playing field for all eligible candidates, we've instituted a tier system for support needed to gain election ...

Negro Leaguers: Need 3/8 support
19th century (i.e. pre 1903): Need 2/5 support
Early Modern (roughly 1903-1945): Need 1/2 support
Integration (roughly 1945-1970): Need 5/8 support
Post Integration (roughly 1970-present): Need 2/3 support

The charts below are win shares data for all candidates. In order from left to right, the columns are career win shares, five-year peak win shares, win shares per 162 games, win shares during a player's top season and the predominant era each player played in (for purposes of the tier voting system). Happy voting!

Player Career WS Peak WS WS per 162 Top Season Era
Dick Allen 342 170 31.68 41 Integration
Jake Beckley 318 97 21.59 23 19th Century
Jim Bottomley 258 127 20.99 30 Early Modern to WWII
Dan Brouthers 355 138 34.38 34 19th Century
Tank Carr --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Norm Cash 315 130 24.43 42 Integration
Orlando Cepeda 310 130 23.64 34 Integration
Frank Chance 237 143 29.86 35 Early Modern to WWII
Will Clark 330 168 27.05 44 Post Integration
Roger Connor 363 145 29.45 36 19th Century
Luke Easter --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Steve Garvey 279 124 19.38 27 Post Integration
Keith Hernandez 311 136 24.13 33 Post Integration

Player Career WS Peak WS WS per 162 Top Season Era
Gil Hodges 263 129 20.57 29 Integration
Ted Kluszewski 203 125 19.14 33 Integration
Buck Leonard --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Don Mattingly 263 145 23.87 34 Post Integration
Lee May 215 108 16.82 26 Post Integration
Mark McGwire 342 159 29.56 41 Post Integration
Buck O'Neill --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Boog Powell 282 116 22.37 31 Integration
George Sisler 292 135 23.02 33 Early Modern to WWII
Mule Suttles --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Ben Taylor --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Bill Terry 278 142 26.17 32 Early Modern to WWII
Mickey Vernon* 296 112 19.91 33 Integration

* Missed playing time due to WWII

11-06-2006, 08:08 AM
A lot of "maybes" and borderline guys on that list IMO.
I'm just not familiar enough with most of the Negro League stars to evaluate their qualifications.
Tony Perez is in the HOF, and I'm glad, but if you think Perez belongs in the HOF then you have to vote for Orlando Cepeda. The Big Dog and The Baby Bull were almost direct contemporaries, playing the same position in the same league, and I can't see any significant edge to Perez in a statistical comparsion.

11-06-2006, 09:00 AM
Voted for Leonard, Suttles, and Terry.

BTW, I can't fault anyone for voting for either Buck, but if you vote for O'Neill and leave Leonard off you're giving O'Neill a lot of credit for his post-playing career and his admittedly wonderful personality. Strictly as a player. Leonard was the better of the two; he just made the mistake of not living longer.

11-06-2006, 10:40 AM
Dan Brouthers and Roger Connor, if you don't know who they are, take a few minutes to find out. No HOF is complete without them.

Big Klu
11-15-2006, 11:05 PM
I voted for:

Allen, Brouthers, Cepeda, Clark, Connor, Leonard, O'Neill, Sisler, and Terry.

There are a lot of interesting "maybes" on this list. I considered Norm Cash, whose career win shares numbers look very good. However, his numbers are skewed by his monster 1961 season. McGwire would have been a near-automatic choice, but the spectre of steroids hangs over him. I also wanted to give a sentimental vote to Kluszewski, but I just couldn't do it.

11-16-2006, 12:39 PM
This poll closes in three days so if you haven't voted yet, there's still a little bit of time left to do so.

Brouthers, Connor, Leonard and Suttles were easy choices for me to vote for. Brouthers and Connor were two of the greatest 19th century hitters that played, and Leonard and Suttles were two of the greatest Negro League hitters that played.

Leonard was probably the greatest Negro League first baseman ever, and Suttles was also a corner outfielder. If one were to create an all-time Negro League time, both those guys would likely be starting on it.

11-16-2006, 12:53 PM
Hey, I know we're Reds fans around here, but voting for Klu and omitting Brouthers, Connor, Leonard and Suttles is impossible to defend.

Brouthers is right on the cusp. A few votes would put him over the top. The others would need a more significant rally to make the cut, but at least we could recognize one of the best hitters of all-time here. And that's not hyperbole. For those of you who aren't familiar with Brouthers, take a gander at his resume:


Plus, he played for the Reds in 1890 (the Boston Reds, but still the team was called the Reds and that's got to be worth something).

11-26-2006, 03:47 AM
This ballot is closed, and two more first basemen have been elected this season. Buck O'Neill becomes the second Negro Leaguer to be enshrined into the RedsZone Hall of Fame with 48.57 percent of the vote, and Dan Brouthers has a late rally push him into the Hall of Fame with exactly 40 percent of the vote.

This brings the total number of first basemen elected to the RedsZone Hall of Fame to 11:

First Basemen (11)

Cap Anson
Dan Brouthers
Jimmie Foxx
Lou Gehrig
Hank Greenberg
Harmon Killebrew
Willie McCovey
JOhnny Mize
Eddie Murray
Buck O'Neill
Tony Perez

The Second Basemen ballot (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52581) is still open until the end of November, and the third basemen ballot will be posted in the next few days.