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View Full Version : how EE compares to...



jmac
11-06-2006, 07:38 PM
some of the other 3rd basemen.
not the top 2 or 3 (a-rod etc) but still some of the baseball tonite darlings like chavez for example

AB'S RBI SLUGGING%
EE 406 - 72 - 473
rolen 521 - 95 - 518
beltre 620 - 89 - 465
chavez 485 - 72 - 435
crede 544 - 94 - 506
chipper 411 - 86 - 596


EE compares favorably and that includes a sept of .214 / 5 rbi /286 slugging
to me, EE seems like a scott rolen type 20-25 hr range 100-120 rbi with the proper amount of AB's .just woder how much love he will get in the preseason fantasy mags...

Jim
11-07-2006, 10:29 AM
Nice post, Jmac. If EE can play a full season and avoid getting benched due to poor defense, I could see him surpassing the 100 RBI mark next year. In a way, I hope that the fantasy mags don't give him much praise as I'd love to have someone of his caliber as a 7th or 8th round pick!

Redsnake
11-07-2006, 11:46 AM
I believe EE could get better without changing anything. Adding a bat and a quality SP would benefit him. A bat in the lineup for protection and pitcher that could strike someone out (= less chances for EE to make errors). But I still believe EE's defense will get better.

terminator
11-07-2006, 02:30 PM
SLG is nice. RBIs don't really matter. What I like most about EE is that he's going to be 24 y/o next season and still improving. It's still too early to tell whether he'll break out and become an All-Star, but it's almost certain that he will be a reasonably good MLB quality 3B IMHO.

Johnny Footstool
11-07-2006, 02:57 PM
Kind of an odd set of parameters to compare them on -- RBIs and SLG. EE is actually on par with the game's best 3Bs in pretty much every offensive category.

TOBTTReds
11-07-2006, 04:27 PM
Dude, RBI's show how clutch someone is. That is the key to life, clutchiness.

RedsManRick
11-07-2006, 04:47 PM
Dude, RBI's show how clutch someone is. That is the key to life, clutchiness.

Wither scrappiness?

jmac
11-07-2006, 05:13 PM
Kind of an odd set of parameters to compare them on -- RBIs and SLG. EE is actually on par with the game's best 3Bs in pretty much every offensive category.

there were other catagories but i just picked a couple. as you stated....most everyone, he is on par with.
i was especially interested in EE having 79 less ab's than chavez yet same rbi.
also 17 less rbi than beltre with 214 :eek: less ab's.
if someone is gonna be a run producer....i'd say rbi's matter !

Johnny Footstool
11-07-2006, 05:36 PM
there were other catagories but i just picked a couple. as you stated....most everyone, he is on par with.
i was especially interested in EE having 79 less ab's than chavez yet same rbi.
also 17 less rbi than beltre with 214 :eek: less ab's.
if someone is gonna be a run producer....i'd say rbi's matter !

RBIs are too team-dependent to matter much to me. But I'll take Edwin (at his age and salary) over just about any other 3B in the game except David Wright.

terminator
11-07-2006, 06:00 PM
Exactly. RBIs really aren't a good gauge at determining whether someone had a good year. They depend too much one whether people were on base in front of them when they happened to get a hit. Obviously 100 RBIs on the Yankees squad is no big deal compared to 100 RBIs for the Pirates.

EE is good. I just wouldn't evaluate him (or anyone else) based on RBI totals.

Ltlabner
11-07-2006, 06:36 PM
Regardless of position in the batting order, I'd like to see EE hit directly behind Dunn (and prefer Dunn hitting 2nd).

Gives Dunn protection and with Dunn's ablity to find his way to 1B it gives EE a chance to move some runners around.

RedsManRick
11-07-2006, 06:50 PM
Regardless of position in the batting order, I'd like to see EE hit directly behind Dunn (and prefer Dunn hitting 2nd).

Gives Dunn protection and with Dunn's ablity to find his way to 1B it gives EE a chance to move some runners around.

I agree, given the current roster, I think Dunn 2, EE 3 is the best arrangement.

Redsland
11-07-2006, 08:28 PM
No question (as Narron would say other than this one]).

jmac
11-07-2006, 09:56 PM
Exactly. RBIs really aren't a good gauge at determining whether someone had a good year. They depend too much one whether people were on base in front of them when they happened to get a hit. Obviously 100 RBIs on the Yankees squad is no big deal compared to 100 RBIs for the Pirates.

EE is good. I just wouldn't evaluate him (or anyone else) based on RBI totals.

i dont think you can determine a good year or bad year totally on rbi's but i think it can be a better gauge than some think.
especially in the 3-5 spot in batting order.most teams put their best obviously in the top few spots in order.so for your run producing spots,most have their fair amount of chances.
notice some of your top teams.this is rbi's + avg w/runners on base
arod 121.....293
ramirez 103.......327 (130 games)
berkman 136.....361

now look at a couple of lesser teams including pirates
bay 109.......276
tracy 80.....270

if bay was up around 290 , he would be in top territory.
if tracy was up around 280, he would be closer to bay's #'s

again, this is mainly batting 3-5.i think where you would see a bigger difference that would validate what you are saying is farther down in batting order.the yanks and bosox for example would have a deeper lineup which would mean batting 7th in yanks lineup, would give you more chances to drive in runs than as you say..the pirates.
again..not a "determing factor" but a "measuring stick" so to speak.

Z-Fly
11-07-2006, 10:12 PM
Regardless of position in the batting order, I'd like to see EE hit directly behind Dunn (and prefer Dunn hitting 2nd).

Gives Dunn protection and with Dunn's ablity to find his way to 1B it gives EE a chance to move some runners around.

Did you hear, from Dusty I think it was, Walks clog the bases. :D

terminator
11-07-2006, 11:07 PM
The
notice some of your top teams.this is rbi's + avg w/runners on base
arod 121.....293
ramirez 103.......327 (130 games)
berkman 136.....361

now look at a couple of lesser teams including pirates
bay 109.......276
tracy 80.....270

if bay was up around 290 , he would be in top territory.
if tracy was up around 280, he would be closer to bay's #'s

Except that RISP varies from year-to-year. There are no real "clutch" hitters that are able to hit consistently well with RISP. RISP average tends to just end up varying above and below the batter's overall average. Good batters tend to have higher RISP because they have higher BAs.

There really aren't any clutch hitters who drive in runs. Mostly it's just year-to-year variations in RISP. RBIs are just the happenstance of getting a hit with a runner on base. For example, look at Arod's RISP compared to his regular BA from year-to-year. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse. Same thing with David Ortiz who is usally proffered as the example of Mr. Clutch.

Demonstrating this point on a very basic level with your stats -- Arod hit .293 RISP and had 120 RBIs. That means that (on a linear basis) .270 RISP hitting Tracy would have driven in 111 instead of 80 if he played in Arod's slot with the Yankees instead of for the Diamondbacks. That makes perfect sense since the Yankees scored 930 runs and the Diamondbacks had 773. Arod had a lot more chances with runners on base.

Ron Madden
11-08-2006, 02:04 AM
Edwin hits hard line drives.

Hard line drives have a funny way of turning into extra base hits.

Extra base hits have a funny way of turning into runs scored.

Edwin has a boat load of talent. The sad thing is the manager, the media and most of the fanbase fail to recognize that talent.

jmac
11-08-2006, 05:07 PM
Except that RISP varies from year-to-year. There are no real "clutch" hitters that are able to hit consistently well with RISP. RISP average tends to just end up varying above and below the batter's overall average. Good batters tend to have higher RISP because they have higher BAs.

There really aren't any clutch hitters who drive in runs. Mostly it's just year-to-year variations in RISP. RBIs are just the happenstance of getting a hit with a runner on base. For example, look at Arod's RISP compared to his regular BA from year-to-year. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's worse. Same thing with David Ortiz who is usally proffered as the example of Mr. Clutch.

Demonstrating this point on a very basic level with your stats -- Arod hit .293 RISP and had 120 RBIs. That means that (on a linear basis) .270 RISP hitting Tracy would have driven in 111 instead of 80 if he played in Arod's slot with the Yankees instead of for the Diamondbacks. That makes perfect sense since the Yankees scored 930 runs and the Diamondbacks had 773. Arod had a lot more chances with runners on base.
again...maybe i am off here, but i think your middle of the order guys(3-5) have about equal chances.the avg wasnt risp rather just men on base.most all teams cleanup guy drives in 80-90 runs.berkman and ramirez are two guys who hit much better with men on base(not just RISP).the run differential you speak of with d-backs and yanks is true.however the difference is the rbi's are from more places in lineup than just the 3 spot for example.also if a-rod had hit 270 (with men on base) the yanks would not have scored 930 runs because .....one.... arod would not have driven in as many and 2......he would not have been on base to be driven in.
i think the difference you speak of is for let's say the yankees:
posada hitting 8th and cano 9th are gonna have more rbi chances than say larue or ross.
also jeter and damon hitting 1-2 will have more chances with those guys in front rather than a freel with ross and pitcher in front of them.just my thinkin....maybe i am totally off here.wont be first time(or last):thumbup: