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View Full Version : Red Sox May have won Matzuka



dunner13
11-10-2006, 01:34 PM
Buster Olney is saying that the red sox with the matsuzka (whatever) auction. At a price between 38-45 million. Thats before the contract they are going to have to pay him, which will be at least 12 million a year. I am so glad the reds didnt get involved in this. 45 Million for this pitcher is insane.

Spring~Fields
11-10-2006, 01:38 PM
At a price between 38-45 million. Thats before the contract they are going to have to pay him, which will be at least 12 million a year.

Wow, how can teams or businessmen spend or commit so much money to one, when that one could simply take a fall in the shower, and all their money go down the drain, I don't get it. Let alone not perform up to MLB standards.

Slyder
11-10-2006, 02:06 PM
Say for argument sake he gets 4 yrs for 48 mil 12 mil per no incentives and paid 40 mil (for this discussion). Teams with lots of money have weighed out the cost and feel its worth it and they have the budget to work with:

If hes only in Boston for the 4 yrs the cost is 22 mil per year. A lot but what if at the end of this contract he's 30 and decides to sign the same deal 17 mil per year would be the cost. If this guy is as good as advertised it certainly is better to pay him than to get 3 Eric Milton's for the same price.

I wouldnt ever do it, but hey thats baseball.

oneupper
11-10-2006, 02:13 PM
The bid money is for the Seibu Lions NOT matzuka. Won't count against the luxury tax ceiling.
They now have EXCLUSIVE rights to negotiate with the pitcher. That should make his salary a bit lower (than if he were a FA) and probably incentive-laden.

I'm surprised the yankees didn't do this...its more their MO.

terminator
11-10-2006, 07:37 PM
If the Red Sox won (a big "if" still) it would be truly ironic in light of Theo's comments this season whining about how his Red Sox couldn't compete with the spending of the Yankees.

HumnHilghtFreel
11-10-2006, 07:40 PM
That's a lot of jack to throw away when the guy might not even sign with them when all is done.

jmac
11-10-2006, 08:04 PM
That's a lot of jack to throw away when the guy might not even sign with them when all is done.

so what happens if he doesnt sign?
do they re-bid again ? :eek:

or go to team 2 in the original bidding....

Joseph
11-10-2006, 08:31 PM
If he doesn't sign the money is refunded to the REd Sox [or whoever the winning team is] and he returns to Seibu Lions of the Japan league and he is a free agent next season.

So in short the Sox only lose the 40 million if they agree to terms with him.

HumnHilghtFreel
11-10-2006, 08:41 PM
If he doesn't sign the money is refunded to the REd Sox [or whoever the winning team is] and he returns to Seibu Lions of the Japan league and he is a free agent next season.

So in short the Sox only lose the 40 million if they agree to terms with him.

Ah, I see. I didn't know about the refundable part:)

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
11-10-2006, 08:59 PM
Wow, how can teams or businessmen spend or commit so much money to one, when that one could simply take a fall in the shower, and all their money go down the drain, I don't get it. Let alone not perform up to MLB standards.

It's called Lloyd's of london insurance.


Permanent Total Disablement Cover – this is usually bought by a club to cover the whole team in the event of accidental death or a player’s career ending.

Temporary Disablement Cover - or what's commonly known as Wage Roll Protection - this covers a club in the event of a player being injured and having to find a replacement. Developed by the Lloyd's market, this cover is often bought by clubs for their top players, with the cost of the insurance determined by the player’s age, health, injury record, medical treatment available and the motivation of the player.

Im not sure if he just downright bombs if theres a coverage for that, but thats what your scouts are for.

jmac
11-10-2006, 10:04 PM
If he doesn't sign the money is refunded to the REd Sox [or whoever the winning team is] and he returns to Seibu Lions of the Japan league and he is a free agent next season.

So in short the Sox only lose the 40 million if they agree to terms with him.

so in other words...if sox dont sign him, he must wait till next year to play in US ?
i believe he will sign btw, just curious how that works.

mth123
11-10-2006, 10:57 PM
so in other words...if sox dont sign him, he must wait till next year to play in US ?
i believe he will sign btw, just curious how that works.

And maybe the bid was only to keep him away from the Yankees. The sox lowball him to the point where he won't sign, they keep their $40 Milllion and the competition looks elsewhere.

Far fetched? Maybe.

Joseph
11-10-2006, 11:04 PM
so in other words...if sox dont sign him, he must wait till next year to play in US ?
i believe he will sign btw, just curious how that works.

Yes that is correct, only the Red Sox [assuming they were the winning bidder as speculated] can sign him. If they don't he goes back to Japan.

cincinnati chili
11-11-2006, 06:04 PM
If he doesn't sign the money is refunded to the REd Sox [or whoever the winning team is] and he returns to Seibu Lions of the Japan league and he is a free agent next season.

So in short the Sox only lose the 40 million if they agree to terms with him.

Where have you seen this? My understanding was that the Red Sox have to pay that money even if Matsuzaka doesn't sign with them. I thought this was totally non-refundable. Maybe I'm wrong.

Edit:

Wikipedia thinks you're correct: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_system

So I would hope that there is some good faith stuff in the rules, forcing the Red Sox not to do this to "block" the Yankees.

bradmu
11-11-2006, 07:51 PM
If the winning team does not agree to terms on a contract after winning the bid, he returns to the Seibu Lions and the money is all refunded.


Matsuzaka has no control over that part of the process. But once the Lions choose to let him go, he has 30 days to negotiate a contract. If those discussions fall apart, Matsuzaka returns to Seibu, and the money is refunded. With the posting price expected to be in the $20-$30 million range, and Scott Boras as his agent, the total financial commitment to ultimately sign Matsuzaka should easily be a record for a first-year Japanese player.

from http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-sbjapan1101,0,6827241.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

blumj
11-11-2006, 08:08 PM
MLB, meanig Selig, has some discretion to decide to invalidate the high bid in favor of the 2nd highest if they determine it wasn't made in good faith. But I think there'd have to be some pretty damning evidence that it wasn't to actually do that. I'd imagine that their first choice would be to try to help broker negotiations between the parties so as not to let it come to that.

Shaknb8k
11-11-2006, 08:30 PM
And maybe the bid was only to keep him away from the Yankees. The sox lowball him to the point where he won't sign, they keep their $40 Milllion and the competition looks elsewhere.

Far fetched? Maybe.

Far fetched? I dont think that is out of the rehlm of possibility. Maybe im reading too much into nothing but why would the sox not do this if they couldnt afford him outright? Why not put a huge bid up there. That keeps him from going to the Yankees...then low ball him on the deal. Im not saying that they come out with a 5 year at a combined $15 million deal. But why not offer him a deal that they would take? Like 3 years-$40 million?

I mean it could definatly backfire on them but I just dont understand why the Red Sox wouldnt atleast try it. If it fails then they are "stuck" with maybe the best free agent pitcher out there at a price that they would have taken him at in the first place.

mth123
11-11-2006, 08:44 PM
Far fetched? I dont think that is out of the rehlm of possibility. Maybe im reading too much into nothing but why would the sox not do this if they couldnt afford him outright? Why not put a huge bid up there. That keeps him from going to the Yankees...then low ball him on the deal. Im not saying that they come out with a 5 year at a combined $15 million deal. But why not offer him a deal that they would take? Like 3 years-$40 million?

I mean it could definatly backfire on them but I just dont understand why the Red Sox wouldnt atleast try it. If it fails then they are "stuck" with maybe the best free agent pitcher out there at a price that they would have taken him at in the first place.

Actually there is another angle the winning bidder could play. Does this scenario sound far fetched?

Red Sox call Seibu Lions and say, "you know that $40 Million you think you have, well you need to pony up $15 Million or so to Matsuzaka to get him to take my lowball offer. You still come away with $25 Million and we get a player that fits in our budget."

Why would this scenario be far fetched? It seems its in the Japanese teams interest to use some of the posting money to make sure he signs - protecting the rest of the posting fee. If he doesn't sign he is lost the following year for no compensation.

The entire process is really full of loopholes that could lead to this kind of stuff IMO.

TOBTTReds
11-11-2006, 11:17 PM
Actually there is another angle the winning bidder could play. Does this scenario sound far fetched?

Red Sox call Seibu Lions and say, "you know that $40 Million you think you have, well you need to pony up $15 Million or so to Matsuzaka to get him to take my lowball offer. You still come away with $25 Million and we get a player that fits in our budget."

Why would this scenario be far fetched? It seems its in the Japanese teams interest to use some of the posting money to make sure he signs - protecting the rest of the posting fee. If he doesn't sign he is lost the following year for no compensation.

The entire process is really full of loopholes that could lead to this kind of stuff IMO.

Sounds like tampering to me...not saying that doesn't happen though.

mth123
11-12-2006, 03:09 AM
Sounds like tampering to me...not saying that doesn't happen though.

How is it tampering if the Red Sox bought the rights for $40 Million? Tampering is when you negotiate or suggest public interest in a player under contract to another team.

This is just the Red Sox getting the former team to try to pay some of the salary in order for the former team to get a return for the guy. Happens all the time in Baseball.

blumj
11-12-2006, 08:21 AM
There were rumors that the Mariners got a lot of their posting fee for Ichiro back. This posting system couldn't be more squirrelly if they tried.