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View Full Version : Reds sign Bubba Crosby



dsmith421
11-10-2006, 06:41 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061110&content_id=1738763&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp



"We're getting a guy that's been on winning teams, that plays the game the right way, that always plays it hard and can play all three outfield positions," Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky said. "We're happy to have him."

vaticanplum
11-10-2006, 06:48 PM
Ok, they're cliches and we can jump all over them. But I would say there's some truth in this case. The "plays on winning teams" thing is bull (it's not important, I mean). But the rest is true. He's a traditionally scrappy, incredibly hard-working, hard-playing type of player. Low-cost, low-risk move.

You guys have to remember that this is the Reds, and the great majority of their fanbase, excepting the freaks like us, read the press releases for newly-signed bench players for five seconds and don't give it a second thought. These soundbytes are what people are trained to give because it's what the public is trained to hear. A lot of Reds fans don't know who the hell Bubba Crosby is. Everything said above is pretty much all the front office can say at this point, and all the public can digest.

FlyingPig
11-10-2006, 06:52 PM
So the Reds signed Bubba Crosby...

yay


WE NEED PITCHERS!


:angry:

dsmith421
11-10-2006, 06:57 PM
Ok, they're cliches and we can jump all over them. But I would say there's some truth in this case. The "plays on winning teams" thing is bull (it's not important, I mean). But the rest is true. He's a traditionally scrappy, incredibly hard-working, hard-playing type of player. Low-cost, low-risk move.


Would you be saying any of this if he wasn't a former Yankee?

Crosby is not a good baseball player. He's never been a good baseball player. The Reds have been accumulating guys they claim "play the game the right way" for six years now and have been a losing team for six years. I'm getting sick and tired of these platitudes.

Matt700wlw
11-10-2006, 06:59 PM
It's a $400,000 Major League contract...it being a Major League contract protects him on the 40 man roster...if he spends his year in the majors (I don't have exact numbers), he gets all the money...if he spends it in the minors, he gets $75,000 or so.

(info from Reds.com and Fox Sports Radio)

alloverjr
11-10-2006, 07:02 PM
I would imagine the part that he needs to work on that Krivsky was referring to was "how to be almost mediocre." Geesh.

vaticanplum
11-10-2006, 07:05 PM
Would you be saying any of this if he wasn't a former Yankee?

Crosby is not a good baseball player. He's never been a good baseball player. The Reds have been accumulating guys they claim "play the game the right way" for six years now and have been a losing team for six years. I'm getting sick and tired of these platitudes.

Yes, I would. I like him. "He's never been a good baseball player" according to whom? He's quick, he has good range in the field, and he's got a great arm. Would I like him as an everyday outfielder? No, although I think defensively, barring injury, he holds up to a lot of the current outfielders on our roster. (And I certainly don't believe that the Reds intend to put him in the outfield every day.) But we run around this board saying that the Reds can't spend a lot of money on big-name players, and then when they make what is essentially a no-risk move for a bench player at the start of the off-season -- a bench player who covers a few deficiences on this team in troubled late innings -- then everybody freaks out. All general management moves are not equal.

If you truly believe that the management of this team sits around their board room and on their conference calls making decisions about players because only due to their "playing the game the right way", then that's one thing. I happen to think that a lot of that is lip service for the papers and the casual fan and that the actual decisions they make involve, you know, stats and things like that, things like realizing that Crosby is very likely to spend some time in the minors next year and so that essentially amounts to $75,000 for a decent defensive option, but maybe I'm crazy. Because I'm a Yankees fan and all.

Caveat Emperor
11-10-2006, 07:08 PM
As a bench-option, he's a shade above awful with the stick and a shade above average with the glove. Not a move I can get too mad about, given the shortness of the contract and the small amount of dollars being spent, but not a move that I really care too much for either.

Given his marginal talent level (he barely OPS'd .760 as a minor leaguer), he's in no danger of beating out anyone on the roster, as it is comprised right now, for a spot on the team.

Spring~Fields
11-10-2006, 07:09 PM
If he isn't good enough for the Yankees, then why do the Reds want him?

redsupport
11-10-2006, 07:12 PM
plays the game the right way is a euphemism for makes outs and is white

wolfboy
11-10-2006, 07:20 PM
Would you be saying any of this if he wasn't a former Yankee?

Would you be saying this if you weren't ticked about the Reds signing Crosby?

traderumor
11-10-2006, 07:26 PM
No press conference? :evil:

Gallen5862
11-10-2006, 07:27 PM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/transactions.jsp?c_id=cin
11/10/06 Released RHP Jason Standridge; Signed OF Bubba Crosby to a one-year Major League contract.

This is interesting that Standridge was released.

traderumor
11-10-2006, 07:28 PM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/transactions.jsp?c_id=cin
11/10/06 Released RHP Jason Standridge; Signed OF Bubba Crosby to a one-year Major League contract.

This is interesting that Standridge was released.Standridge--the Billy Martin of fringe pitchers.

Falls City Beer
11-10-2006, 07:59 PM
plays the game the right way is a euphemism for makes outs and is white

Brilliant. I'm telling you, Podsednik is right around the corner, folks.

Reds Nd2
11-10-2006, 08:37 PM
BP's Five-Year Forecast


Year PA BB SO SB CS SPD AVG OBP SLG VORP DEF
2007 (age 30) 244 15 43 3 1 5.6 .255 .307 .386 .2 60-CF 0
2008 (age 31) 248 16 45 3 1 5.8 .256 .310 .399 1.1 61-CF -1
2009 (age 32) -- out of baseball --
2010 (age 33) -- out of baseball --

Perhaps a good signing if the Reds use him primarily in a pinch running / late inning LF defensive replacement role, but I shudder to think what will happen if he gets regular playing time.

flyer85
11-10-2006, 08:45 PM
Bubba may not be a redneck, but he is worthless as an OF.

Ravenlord
11-10-2006, 08:48 PM
i would much, much rather have DeWayne Wise with the same role and contract.

Doc. Scott
11-10-2006, 08:57 PM
i would much, much rather have DeWayne Wise with the same role and contract.

I wouldn't. Wise is completely helpless against major-league pitching in all aspects. Crosby at least has the ability to take a pitch or two once in a while.

GAC
11-10-2006, 09:07 PM
A signing that is no big deal. A bench/role player for $400,000.

Falls City Beer
11-10-2006, 09:17 PM
The question isn't: is it a big deal? The question is: did it improve the team?

And the answer to the last one is no.

Matt700wlw
11-10-2006, 09:19 PM
Does he even make the big club? The "Major League" contract just keeps him protected on the 40 man roster....that is all.

People are making way too much out of this...

Falls City Beer
11-10-2006, 09:21 PM
Does he even make the big club? The "Major League" contract just keeps him protected on the 40 man roster....that is all.

People are making way too much out of this...


Then you've wasted $400,000, and done nothing to improve the team. Plus you've spent crucial manhours hammering out the deal. I'd like for the days of throwing feces against the wall to see if it sticks to be over.

Matt700wlw
11-10-2006, 09:22 PM
If he isn't in the bigs this year, he only gets $75,000 of it to be in the minors.

I don't know how many games qualify him, but that's the deal.

Free Agency doesn't start until Sunday or Monday, so I'm not sure why you're griping about the "manhours." I would be they weren't up all night trying to get this minor deal done.

oneupper
11-10-2006, 09:27 PM
Then you've wasted $400,000, and done nothing to improve the team. Plus you've spent crucial manhours hammering out the deal. I'd like for the days of throwing feces against the wall to see if it sticks to be over.

I agree. This is the kind of thing that can wait. You don't put filler in BEFORE the substantial stuff.

Reds Nd2
11-10-2006, 09:53 PM
Does he even make the big club? The "Major League" contract just keeps him protected on the 40 man roster....that is all.

People are making way too much out of this...

That's a roster spot that could have been used to protect someone, with more upside than Crosby, from the Rule V draft.


If he isn't in the bigs this year, he only gets $75,000 of it to be in the minors.

I don't know how many games qualify him, but that's the deal.

Free Agency doesn't start until Sunday or Monday, so I'm not sure why you're griping about the "manhours." I would be they weren't up all night trying to get this minor deal done.

His salary will be pro-rated for each game he plays, regardless of the level.

Spring~Fields
11-10-2006, 09:55 PM
The question isn't: is it a big deal? The question is: did it improve the team?

And the answer to the last one is no.

Exactly,

Same old song, just a different singer, we have seen all this before many times and as you have said, it does not improve the team.

flyer85
11-10-2006, 10:09 PM
The problem, as we have seen in the past, is these kind of guys actually get some PT.

redsupport
11-10-2006, 10:17 PM
he has the potential to be the next Cesar Hernandez, or even if everything breaks right, the next Angel Bravo!

edabbs44
11-10-2006, 10:46 PM
This has the makings of one bad offseason. I've said it since last spring...there hasn't been one indication that this FO is any different than years past.

Falls City Beer
11-10-2006, 10:49 PM
This has the makings of one bad offseason. I've said it since last spring...there hasn't been one indication that this FO is any different than years past.

Except for Arroyo, I agree completely.

jimbo
11-10-2006, 10:57 PM
The question isn't: is it a big deal? The question is: did it improve the team?

And the answer to the last one is no.

Your opinion. It is not a fact as it has yet to play out.

RedsManRick
11-10-2006, 11:10 PM
Your opinion. It is not a fact as it has yet to play out.

Well, you can't undo the damage after it happens. You have to prevent it from happening by keeping no-value guys off the roster to keep your veteran obsessed manager from giving them real PT. Royce Clayton says hi.

SteelSD
11-10-2006, 11:36 PM
That's a roster spot that could have been used to protect someone, with more upside than Crosby, from the Rule V draft.

Exactly. There's pretty near zero upside to this signing. The guy is awful but takes up a 40-man roster slot? What the heck is Krivsky thinking?


"We're getting a guy that's been on winning teams, that plays the game the right way, that always plays it hard and can play all three outfield positions," Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky said. "We're happy to have him."

Seriously, Wayne Krivsky has now officially jumped the shark. Dan O'Brien set the Reds back at least three years and I'm very worried that Krivsky will take them back another three.

redsupport
11-11-2006, 01:05 AM
If krivsky takes them back a few more he might be able to acquire Mike Vail, who happens to be a real gamer who knows how the game is played

Caveat Emperor
11-11-2006, 04:50 AM
Seriously, Wayne Krivsky has now officially jumped the shark. Dan O'Brien set the Reds back at least three years and I'm very worried that Krivsky will take them back another three.

I'll wait until he really opens the checkbook for an overpriced, underserving free agent (ala Eric Milton) before I toss Krivsky under the bus.

As for the Rule V -- you've gotta have someone worth protecting in order for it to matter. There's not a lot of talent in the Reds farm system at any level, let alone a level high enough to waste a 25 man roster spot on for some other team. I see that as a non-issue.

Ron Madden
11-11-2006, 04:54 AM
Ok, they're cliches and we can jump all over them. But I would say there's some truth in this case. The "plays on winning teams" thing is bull (it's not important, I mean). But the rest is true. He's a traditionally scrappy, incredibly hard-working, hard-playing type of player. Low-cost, low-risk move.

You guys have to remember that this is the Reds, and the great majority of their fanbase, excepting the freaks like us, read the press releases for newly-signed bench players for five seconds and don't give it a second thought. These soundbytes are what people are trained to give because it's what the public is trained to hear. A lot of Reds fans don't know who the hell Bubba Crosby is. Everything said above is pretty much all the front office can say at this point, and all the public can digest.

Vaticanplum, We must remember the Reds can't afford moves such as this. We already own better options than Bubba Crosby.

(JMHO) but this move scares the hell outta me in more ways than one.

Wayne should not have signed Crosby... but he did.

Jerry should not start Crosby... but he will every chance he gets.

mth123
11-11-2006, 08:30 AM
I'll wait until he really opens the checkbook for an overpriced, underserving free agent (ala Eric Milton) before I toss Krivsky under the bus.

As for the Rule V -- you've gotta have someone worth protecting in order for it to matter. There's not a lot of talent in the Reds farm system at any level, let alone a level high enough to waste a 25 man roster spot on for some other team. I see that as a non-issue.

I agree somewhat. Krivsky was in a "beggers can't be choosers" mode during the season and his moves are not a completely fair indication of his ability. I also agree with his critics that he hasn't really done anything yet. All of the players acquired good and bad were basically guys that their former teams no longer had any use for (including Arroyo). The only real "deal" he made was the Kearns deal and it was a failure. Krivsky has done nothing to warrant excitement IMO and his one big deal was one he should have passed on. I'm skeptical but not ready to write him off just yet.

As for Crosby, its a non-issue. He was signed to be a replacement player in the minors IMO. Its a long season and guys like this are needed to cover in an emergency from time to time. He was put on the 40 man because of all the guys that the Reds had eligible to lose, he was most likely to be taken. (Now that he'd signed, he'd be available in Rule 5 too!) CE is correct that Reds really have no one else to protect.

OldRightHander
11-11-2006, 09:34 AM
Part of me is hoping this guy surprises us and puts together a fairly solid year, but another part of me is hoping that he doesn't have his one career year and get rewarded with a LTC, only to regress in the remaining years of that contract. As a fan, I try to hold onto some shred of optimism, but there is a nagging feeling that it wouldn't have been any worse if they had signed Bing Crosby instead.

flyer85
11-11-2006, 10:33 AM
Your opinion. It is not a fact as it has yet to play out.but using his past record as an indicator he has little to no value.

MWM
11-11-2006, 10:34 AM
This isn't a move worth getting too worked up over either way, but I do find it a bit troubling that this is a player Krivsky thinks is worthy of a roster spot. Honestly, I didn't know much about him until the move, then I went and looked at his numbers and never realied just how bad they are. Sure he's had only 250 ABs, but he's sporting a putrid .255 OBP and a SLG of .300. That's an OPS of .555. That's tough to do.

And his minor league numbers aren't much better is you consider he was still get regular time in AAA at 29 years old. The first decent year he had in the minors, he was 24 years old in A ball. He was pretty good one year in 2003 as a 27 year old in AAA. Other than that, his minor league numbers are pretty awful as well.

He can't play good enough defense to make up for how bad he is on offense. Again, it's not big bucks, but with Narron he WILL find himself with regular playing time. I don't get why he's worthy of a roster spot.

flyer85
11-11-2006, 10:35 AM
As for the Rule V -- you've gotta have someone worth protecting in order for it to matter. There's not a lot of talent in the Reds farm system at any level, let alone a level high enough to waste a 25 man roster spot on for some other team. I see that as a non-issue.Plus with the rule V change in eligibility their is likely to be even less avaalable than there has been in the past.

Joseph
11-11-2006, 10:53 AM
We couldn't live without a bubba for too long.

flyer85
11-11-2006, 10:58 AM
I don't get why he's worthy of a roster spot.which of course is entirely the point. Unless you are willing to emphasize something subject and put value in that there is no reason he should be on a 40 man roster. Crosby is truly NRI material on his best day but the Reds would be better off if someone else did the inviting.

IslandRed
11-11-2006, 11:15 AM
He can't play good enough defense to make up for how bad he is on offense. Again, it's not big bucks, but with Narron he WILL find himself with regular playing time. I don't get why he's worthy of a roster spot.

He's not, which is why he got a split contract and not a guaranteed one. As for the 40-man spot, no real opportunity cost there either. The guys we need to protect from Rule 5 are already on it, and Crosby can be removed from it as easily as he was added to it if a better option happens along. Just an organizational-filler move.

Falls City Beer
11-11-2006, 01:58 PM
He's not, which is why he got a split contract and not a guaranteed one. As for the 40-man spot, no real opportunity cost there either. The guys we need to protect from Rule 5 are already on it, and Crosby can be removed from it as easily as he was added to it if a better option happens along. Just an organizational-filler move.

But the Reds already had organizational-filler the caliber of Crosby in-house. I guess it's better to get table-scraps from a winner.

Wheelhouse
11-11-2006, 02:24 PM
The question isn't: is it a big deal? The question is: did it improve the team?

And the answer to the last one is no.

There's another question: does it help the Reds position in moving players in the offseason: somewhat.

guttle11
11-11-2006, 02:47 PM
There's another question: does it help the Reds position in moving players in the offseason: somewhat.

If he doesn't help the team now, why would he help if an OFer is moved?

Let's say they move Dunn for a pitcher. Bubba Crosby isn't going to produce enough runs, added to any runs saved by upgrading the rotation, that will balance the runs Dunn produces.

Crosby is a player you sign to a minor league deal, invite to spring training, and see what happens. Maybe he blows you away, maybe you have injuries. Under no circumstances should you offer him a major league deal. Zero.

edabbs44
11-11-2006, 03:00 PM
I think the most troubling part of the signing is that Wayne was talking about him up like they landed a major acquisition. To me, that means they expect him to play at least a good sized role next season. And that, my friends, is a HUGE issue. They signed him to a $400k contract. Take a look at the signings this off-season and add up the money over the ML minimum. I'm sure that will be a little shocking, when we see what people like Bubba, Hatte, Cormier and the rest produce over what people like Votto, Salmon, etc. could do.

If he thinks that much of Bubba, could you imagine if he landed Eckstein? He and Narron might need to change their shorts 5 times the day they signed him.

IslandRed
11-11-2006, 03:05 PM
But the Reds already had organizational-filler the caliber of Crosby in-house. I guess it's better to get table-scraps from a winner.

Better than Crosby, probably. But sometimes filler is just filler. We'll have to sign more guys like this just to field a team in Louisville, since we have so few actual prospects in the high minors.

IslandRed
11-11-2006, 03:17 PM
I think the most troubling part of the signing is that Wayne was talking about him up like they landed a major acquisition. To me, that means they expect him to play at least a good sized role next season. And that, my friends, is a HUGE issue. They signed him to a $400k contract. Take a look at the signings this off-season and add up the money over the ML minimum. ...

Well, of course he's going to say good things about a player he just signed. Look past the PR and look at the contract. It's a split contract. A split contract doesn't say "we expect you to play a good-sized role." It says "we expect you to be in Louisville unless we need a body." He's not guaranteed the $400k, and $400k is barely over the minimum anyway.

37red
11-11-2006, 04:22 PM
It's a good contract if the Reds can use him in a trade to get what they need..... pitching. I can't see that they need any more outfielders, I think that's the least of there problems.

edabbs44
11-11-2006, 05:47 PM
It's a good contract if the Reds can use him in a trade to get what they need..... pitching.

The chances of that happening are....remote.
http://sjl-static12.sjl.youtube.com/vi/FC5TBdCPerE/3.jpg

4256 Hits
11-11-2006, 11:10 PM
This isn't a move worth getting too worked up over either way, but I do find it a bit troubling that this is a player Krivsky thinks is worthy of a roster spot.

Shouldn't surprise you after Krivsky thinks Castro is worthy of a roster spot the next two year at a million per.:help: :angry: :help:

redsfanmia
11-11-2006, 11:40 PM
Shouldn't surprise you after Krivsky thinks Castro is worthy of a roster spot the next two year at a million per.:help: :angry: :help:

Castro is not a bad guy to have around and your only paying him 2 hogs. I just dont get the Castro bashing, is he Barry Larkin? no but he's also no Whitey Richardson. Castro is just fine as a late inning defensive replacement for EE or whoever is playing short next year.

Bubba is just filler, its not like we signed him for 3 years.

flyer85
11-12-2006, 07:56 PM
I think the real problem that posters have is not with Crosby. What scares them is the possibility that Krivsky thinks he might actually be a valuable player to have on your roster because Crosby is the definition of "replacement level".

pedro
11-12-2006, 08:07 PM
I doubt Bubba is even on the opening day roster. He's just minor league filler IMO. The fact that the Reds gave him a 40 man roster spot is a bit more troubling, but more so due to the fact that they don't have 40 better players that they need to protect than anything else.

4256 Hits
11-12-2006, 08:20 PM
Castro is not a bad guy to have around and your only paying him 2 hogs. I just dont get the Castro bashing, is he Barry Larkin? no but he's also no Whitey Richardson. Castro is just fine as a late inning defensive replacement for EE or whoever is playing short next year.

Bubba is just filler, its not like we signed him for 3 years.

Well I disagree, Castro is one of the worst hitter in the history of the game. Also for a defensive guy his range is terrible and only getting worse as he ages. Not to mention he makes many more errors than what you would expect for "golden hands".

Roy Tucker
11-13-2006, 09:02 AM
Every team needs a guy named Bubba.

If for no other reason that it's fun to say "Bubba".

redsfanmia
11-13-2006, 05:39 PM
Well I disagree, Castro is one of the worst hitter in the history of the game. Also for a defensive guy his range is terrible and only getting worse as he ages. Not to mention he makes many more errors than what you would expect for "golden hands".

Lets agree to disagree but I dont think that Castro is "one of the worst hitters in the history of the game". While he is not a good hitter he is far from the worst in the history of the game. Castro is not a great player but a useful part of the roster IMO.

pedro
11-13-2006, 05:42 PM
Lets agree to disagree but I dont think that Castro is "one of the worst hitters in the history of the game". While he is not a good hitter he is far from the worst in the history of the game. Castro is not a great player but a useful part of the roster IMO.


actually it's true, castro is one of the worst hitters in modern baseball history to get the number of AB's he has.

westofyou
11-13-2006, 05:44 PM
Lets agree to disagree but I dont think that Castro is "one of the worst hitters in the history of the game". While he is not a good hitter he is far from the worst in the history of the game. Castro is not a great player but a useful part of the roster IMO.

Actually he is

If you look at OPS vs the league average then he's in the top 20 for modern players with more than 2000 ab's


CAREER
MODERN (1900-)
Non P
AT BATS >= 2000

OPS DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE AB
1 Bill Bergen -.268 .395 .663 3028
2 Rafael Belliard -.199 .530 .729 2301
3 Skeeter Webb -.195 .531 .726 2274
4 Tommy Thevenow -.185 .579 .764 4164
5 Matt Walbeck -.183 .595 .778 2108
6 Hal Lanier -.179 .529 .708 3703
7 Freddie Maguire -.178 .611 .789 2120
8 Bob Lillis -.177 .546 .723 2328
9 Rey Ordonez -.173 .600 .773 3115
10 Rabbit Warstler -.173 .587 .759 4088
11 Bobby Wine -.166 .550 .716 3172
12 Gene Desautels -.166 .600 .766 2012
13 Doug Flynn -.161 .560 .721 3853
14 Enzo Hernandez -.161 .550 .711 2327
15 Juan Castro -.161 .612 .773 2122
16 Dal Maxvill -.158 .552 .711 3443
17 Virgil Stallcup -.155 .595 .750 2058
18 Don Heffner -.153 .620 .773 2526
19 Johnnie LeMaster -.153 .566 .718 3191
20 Al Newman -.152 .570 .722 2107

westofyou
11-13-2006, 05:46 PM
BTW Bill Bergen is an amazing thought... he actually OPS'd .319 one season.

.139/.163/.156 - 346 at bats.

Roy Tucker
11-13-2006, 05:53 PM
The last Bubba the Reds had was Bubba Church in 1953.

And I didn't know what chewing tobacco was till I got this baseball card in 1964...

http://www.vintagecardtraders.org/virtual/64topps/64topps-143.jpg

Highlifeman21
11-13-2006, 05:59 PM
Didn't we get Bubba Nelson in the Reitsma trade? I'm pretty sure he never did anything at the ML level for the Reds, but I thought we had a Bubba in the system.

Cyclone792
11-13-2006, 06:23 PM
BTW Bill Bergen is an amazing thought... he actually OPS'd .319 one season.

.139/.163/.156 - 346 at bats.

Bill Bergen's always fascinated me; he was so awful offensively yet he saw a ton of playing time. His arm was thought to be amazing, and in an era of light hitting and lots of basestealing, I guess both the Reds and Superbas figured Bergen's defense and arm behind the plate was worth the sacrifice of his bat. Supposedly in one game in 1909 he threw out of seven out of seven attempted basestealers. That's not too shabby.

Bergen averaged -38 runs above replacement level per 162 games with the bat, but also averaged 59 fielding runs above replacement level per 162 games with the glove.

Bill Bergen had a brother Marty Bergen that also played in the majors for a short while. Marty committed suicide in 1900 by slitting his own throat with a razor. Before committing suicide, Marty murdered his wife and son with an ax.

westofyou
11-13-2006, 06:27 PM
Before committing suicide, Marty murdered his wife and son with an ax.Good old days eh?

Cyclone792
11-13-2006, 06:44 PM
Good old days eh?

It reminded me of Ed Delahanty's death in 1903 by jumping (or falling?) off a bridge near Niagra Falls.

I checked out James' records of deaths in that time period to see what other freaky incidents occurred. Some of them are quite odd:

1894: E.J. McNabb, murder/suicide
1895: Pacer Smith, hanged
1896: Cannonball Crane, accidental overdose of chloral
1903: Win Mercer, suicide by gas
1903: 12 fans killed in collapse of bleachers at a Phillies game
1907: Chick Stahl, suicide by acid

Team Clark
11-13-2006, 07:05 PM
It reminded me of Ed Delahanty's death in 1903 by jumping (or falling?) off a bridge near Niagra Falls.

I checked out James' records of deaths in that time period to see what other freaky incidents occurred. Some of them are quite odd:

1894: E.J. McNabb, murder/suicide
1895: Pacer Smith, hanged
1896: Cannonball Crane, accidental overdose of chloral
1903: Win Mercer, suicide by gas
1903: 12 fans killed in collapse of bleachers at a Phillies game
1907: Chick Stahl, suicide by acid

Suicide by Acid? Seriously? That must have hurt and taken awhile...

pedro
11-13-2006, 07:06 PM
Suicide by Acid? Seriously? That must have hurt and taken awhile...

yep, 8-12 hours each time. ;)

MrCinatit
11-13-2006, 07:08 PM
Suicide by Acid? Seriously? That must have hurt and taken awhile...

Duuuuuuuuuude. I am, like, so trippin' right now.
Oh. Wait. Wrong acid.

NDRed
11-14-2006, 02:08 AM
1907: Chick Stahl, suicide by acid

I just had to learn more:

Chick was a fine hitter. He batted .358 as a rookie for the Braves in 1897 and topped .300 five of his first six seasons. He had six hits in one game on May 31, 1899. As the Red Sox' centerfielder he hit three triples in the first World Series, in 1903, and led the AL with 19 triples in 1904. In 1906 he became the Red Sox' player-manager when his best friend, Jimmy Collins, decided to concentrate solely on playing, but Stahl committed suicide the following spring, confiding to Collins that he couldn't stand the strain of managing. (JK)


August 29, 1906: After Pilgrims manager Jimmy Collins takes a vacation without permission, he is suspended. Chick Stahl is named acting manager.

March 28, 1907: Popular Boston Pilgrims OF Chick Stahl, who replaced Jimmy Collins as manager of the now named Red Sox at the end of the 1906 season, commits suicide while travelling with the team in West Baden Springs, IN. After breakfast he returned to his room and drank four oz. of carbolic acid. He left a note: "Boys, I just couldn't help it. You drove me to it." Cy Young reluctantly agrees to start the season as Boston's manager, but there will be three others during the year.

Fort Wayne, Ind., March 30. - David P. Murphy, an engineer
on the Grand Rapids and Indiana Railroad, committed suicide
to-day by swallowing carbolic acid. It is believed the suicide
of "Chick" Stahl, the Boston American baseball player, who
was an intimate friend of Murphy, had some effect in giv-
ing a suicidal impulse to Murphy's mind. Murphy left a note
saying: "Bury me beside 'Chick.'"

November 16, 1908: Julia Stahl, widow of Chick Stahl, is found dead in the doorway of a Boston tenement house. Chick Stahl, the Boston manager, committed suicide last year during spring training.


and finally http://www.efqreview.com/NewFiles/v20n2/onhistoricalground.html looks good, but I'm not paying 7.95 to learn, "the rest of the story".

oneupper
11-14-2006, 07:39 AM
Phenol, also known under an older name of carbolic acid, is a colourless crystalline solid with a typical sweet tarry odor. Its chemical formula is C6H5OH and its structure is that of a hydroxyl group (-OH) bonded to a phenyl ring; it is thus an aromatic compound.

Carbolic Acid was commonly used in the day as a means of suicide. It could be easily purchased at any drugstore for fifteen cents an ounce. One ounce was all that was needed to do the job.

membengal
11-14-2006, 08:06 AM
plays the game the right way is a euphemism for makes outs and is white

Hysterical.

Gotta say, it gets increasingly sadder every off-season watching players who can actually impact teams get pursued by the same handful of teams that care about their fans while Cincy tries to get excited about the Bubba Crosby's of the world.

RANDY IN INDY
11-14-2006, 08:08 AM
The Crosby signing is fodder. I really look for the Reds to make some interesting moves this off-season.

Ron Madden
11-15-2006, 04:33 AM
I thought McCracken was signed as fodder last year.

Sure hope this isn't a repeat of the same mistake.

Chip R
11-15-2006, 01:27 PM
I thought McCracken was signed as fodder last year.

Sure hope this isn't a repeat of the same mistake.


And he was just that: fodder. He was the 25th guy on the roster. He could play all 3 OF positions and hit left handed. The only other left handed hitter of the bench was Valentin so on days Javy was playing, McCracken was the only lefty on the bench. He didn't make much money and he didn't get a lot of playing time yet volumes have been written about the tragedy of having McCracken on the roster.

westofyou
11-15-2006, 01:37 PM
And he was just that: fodder. He was the 25th guy on the roster. He could play all 3 OF positions and hit left handed. The only other left handed hitter of the bench was Valentin so on days Javy was playing, McCracken was the only lefty on the bench. He didn't make much money and he didn't get a lot of playing time yet volumes have been written about the tragedy of having McCracken on the roster.

Quinton had 0.96% of the teams at bats.

Now, Quinton was no Skip Schumaker, nor was he Jeff Keppinger or Jeff Salazar, he was just the equal to Jorge Piedra or Jeff Mathis.

RFS62
11-15-2006, 01:44 PM
Quinton had 0.96% of the teams at bats.

Now, Quinton was no Skip Schumaker, nor was he Jeff Keppinger or Jeff Salazar, he was just the equal to Jorge Piedra or Jeff Mathis.


Wow, Westofyou going all modern day de la hozian there.

:cool:

redsupport
11-15-2006, 01:50 PM
Was quinton as proficient as Clyde Mashore, was he as dextrous as Terry Lee, was he as prolific as Bob Johnson

Falls City Beer
11-15-2006, 01:54 PM
Quinton had 0.96% of the teams at bats.

.

And he didn't even earn those ABs.

I'd like to have players who actually contribute, not players who malinger on rosters like sour milk.

westofyou
11-15-2006, 01:56 PM
I'd like to have players who actually contribute, not players who malinger on rosters like sour milk.EVERY team has guys who you would consider sour milk, every single one of them.

Joseph
11-15-2006, 01:57 PM
I logged on and saw this thread and for a moment misread it and thought that we'd signed Bobby Crosby, A's SS, even though I knew we'd inked Bubba.

That would have been better.

Chip R
11-15-2006, 01:59 PM
And he didn't even earn those ABs.


How was he supposed to earn those ABs? Do his John Houseman impersonation?

Matt700wlw
11-15-2006, 03:20 PM
I thought McCracken was signed as fodder last year.

Sure hope this isn't a repeat of the same mistake.

I think he was.....he made the team because of injury.

DeWayne Wise probably would have taken the 25th roster spot if he hadn't hurt himself.....he did later in the season when he got healthy

Falls City Beer
11-15-2006, 03:38 PM
EVERY team has guys who you would consider sour milk, every single one of them.


Yes, I suspect they do. But the Reds collect them. That's the difference.

Successful teams use only in case of emergency.