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RedLegSuperStar
11-13-2006, 11:32 AM
Some interesting info found via the Beerleaguer Phillies blog tonight.

- Also, the Phils have contacted Rich Aurilia's agent, presumably for their third base vacancy.

from MLBTradeRumors.com

Highlifeman21
11-13-2006, 12:01 PM
The Phillies burned a big pile of money when they signed David Bell.

Now, looks like they're gonna continue that trend if they sign Rich Aurilia. I can't imagine he'd come back to us for under 2M, so let me be one of the first to say, c ya Rich.

Heath
11-13-2006, 01:08 PM
Only 6 AB's at Philly last year, too small to see how he'd fare in the City of Brotherly Love.

But, if they want the man, they can have him.

texasdave
11-13-2006, 01:48 PM
I have never understood all the dissing of Rich Aurilia on this board. The man was probably the Reds' best non-pitcher during the 2006 season. If not the best, then pretty close to it. It makes it hard to understand all the Bye-Rich-don't-let-the-door-hit-you-on-the-way-out comments.

cincyinco
11-13-2006, 01:57 PM
I was Aurillia's biggest critic when he signed with the Reds and started off poorly. I let him have it when they came to Coors.

The guy has pretty much shut me the heck up with his play beyond that point. His attitude could probably use a bit of work, but the guy plays ball.

I just hope that if he goes, we offer arbitration and get that valuable compensation pick.

NJReds
11-13-2006, 01:58 PM
I have never understood all the dissing of Rich Aurilia on this board. The man was probably the Reds' best non-pitcher during the 2006 season. If not the best, then pretty close to it. It makes it hard to understand all the Bye-Rich-don't-let-the-door-hit-you-on-the-way-out comments.

I can't speak for all of the 'naysayers' but if some big budget team is going to toss a big contract at Rich, then the Reds are better off parting ways. For 1-year, $2M, fine. But I have a feeling he's going to land a bigger contract from the Phillies, Giants or Yankees.

Redsland
11-13-2006, 02:12 PM
I have never understood all the dissing of Rich Aurilia on this board.
Richie puts up good numbers and plays all over the field. On the other side of the ledger, he's a whiner who doesn't seem to care much for our city or our team.

Heath
11-13-2006, 02:38 PM
To explain myself with RA is the whole attitude and perception of himself. This team gave him a chance to resurrect any career he had up to that point, and all I hear is blabbering whining from a supposed "professional" baseball player because he's not getting his way.

Plus, its not feasible to give him what he wants from a Cincinnati standpoint. He's about to fall off a cliff career-wise.

Highlifeman21
11-13-2006, 02:42 PM
I have never understood all the dissing of Rich Aurilia on this board. The man was probably the Reds' best non-pitcher during the 2006 season. If not the best, then pretty close to it. It makes it hard to understand all the Bye-Rich-don't-let-the-door-hit-you-on-the-way-out comments.

The 2006 Win Shares figures tell me that Adam Dunn was the Reds' best non-pitcher.

It's all about business and spending wisely in regards to the "Bye bye Rich" feelings. He's old, has limited range and should be on the decline in all aspects of his game, which from a business standpoint says "avoid at all costs". If Rich wants to come earn the 2B job in ST and make 2M doing so, so be it. If some other team is going to throw more than 2M / year at him, then Rich is playing for a different team in 2007.

At this point in time, I hope we do get a compensation pick for RA.

jimbo
11-13-2006, 02:54 PM
Richie puts up good numbers and plays all over the field. On the other side of the ledger, he's a whiner who doesn't seem to care much for our city or our team.

I pretty much agree with this statement. RA has put up some decent numbers for the Reds, but personally I have never been able to get past the comment he made during the 2004 season when he didn't get traded by the trading deadline. Something to the affect that he was "stuck in Cincinnati." Maybe it's not fair, but that comment really fortified my opinion on Aurilia. You just don't say things like that because it's disrespectful to your teammates and the fans of the team you are employed by. I give him credit where credit is due as far as his 2005 season, but I won't be shedding any tears if he doesn't return to the Reds.

Gallen5862
11-13-2006, 03:48 PM
If the Phillies were to sign Aurilla The Reds would receive the Phillies first round pick number 19 and a first round supplemental pick.

Heath
11-13-2006, 03:55 PM
If the Phillies were to sign Aurilla The Reds would receive the Phillies first round pick number 19 and a first round supplemental pick.

Is Ed Wade still running the Phillies? C'mon Eddie! Do it!

Redsland
11-13-2006, 04:30 PM
If the Phillies were to sign Aurilla The Reds would receive the Phillies first round pick number 19 and a first round supplemental pick.
...if the Reds offer arbitration to Aurilia.

Heath
11-13-2006, 04:49 PM
Well, its semi-related but the Mets resigned Jose Valentin on a 1-yr deal.

So much for Aurilia going to the Big Apple.

Highlifeman21
11-13-2006, 06:02 PM
...if the Reds offer arbitration to Aurilia.

I have a feeling we'd get taken to the cleaners if we offered arbitration to RA. It would come back to bite us in the butt when some arbitrator awarded RA some sorta contract that some other team would most likely offer him via FA.

Now it's a Catch 22. Offer him arbitration and have it bite us, or don't offer and let him walk for free.

Redsland
11-13-2006, 06:07 PM
I wouldn't offer it to him. Too risky.

Falls City Beer
11-13-2006, 06:22 PM
Richie puts up good numbers and plays all over the field.

"Plays" is insanely generous. More like "poses"--like the Colossus of Rhodes.

paulrichjr
11-13-2006, 07:18 PM
I wouldn't offer it to him. Too risky.

In this market I would. He will get a contract from someone for more than 1 year. I think the risk is minimal. In fact it wouldn't surprise me to see him sign before the arb. deadline.

Redmachine2003
11-13-2006, 09:44 PM
:beerme: Here's to hoping they will sign him. The Reds could use a couple of 1st round picks.

Mario-Rijo
11-13-2006, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by paulrichjr
In this market I would. He will get a contract from someone for more than 1 year. I think the risk is minimal. In fact it wouldn't surprise me to see him sign before the arb. deadline.

Without question I agree wholeheartedly. My only question is if he is signed before we offer arbitration or get a chance to, do we still get the pick(s)? I would assume so but I have been wondering that. Geez no wonder sometimes it takes so long to sign FA's. I guess I would wait too if it meant I could possibly keep my 1st rounder in case the opposing team decided against offering arb.

But in this case you gotta offer RA, just let it be known to him that we intend on continuing to use him in the same capacity as '06 (Super Sub) and no longer than a 1 yr deal. My guess is he will decline arb. and sign somewhere else and we can then collect some additional picks. Worst case scenario he re-signs with us for 1 year and we continue to use him in a similar role and hopefully still get solid production out of him.

mth123
11-13-2006, 10:12 PM
...if the Reds offer arbitration to Aurilia.

Or if some one signs him before we need to make that decision. I hope he signs with Philly tomorrow.

paulrichjr
11-13-2006, 10:42 PM
Without question I agree wholeheartedly. My only question is if he is signed before we offer arbitration or get a chance to, do we still get the pick(s)? I would assume so but I have been wondering that.

Yes we do. It is something that the Giants have been known to do in the past. They signed Vizquel before he was offered arbitration even though he probably wouldn't have been offered it by Cleveland. Cleveland of course went ahead and offered arbitration to a signed player of San Fran.

Mario-Rijo
11-13-2006, 11:47 PM
Yes we do. It is something that the Giants have been known to do in the past. They signed Vizquel before he was offered arbitration even though he probably wouldn't have been offered it by Cleveland. Cleveland of course went ahead and offered arbitration to a signed player of San Fran.


Wow, nice move there SF! How about an Aurilia, Weathers, Schoeneweis, etc.?

Mario-Rijo
11-13-2006, 11:58 PM
Some more info on Richie!


Mr. Versatile
Dodgers?
Phillies?
Mets?
Yankees?
Nov 9 - The Phillies, looking for a right-handed hitter to share time with Abraham Nunez at third base, have called agent Barry Axelrod to inquire about Rich Aurilia, ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick reports. Philadelphia is also considering Wes Helms, Mark DeRosa and possibly Tony Graffanino from this winter's free-agent crop.
Aurilia, 35, hit .300 with 23 homers and 70 RBI for Cincinnati this season. He had a higher slugging percentage (.518) than teammates Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr. He played all four infield positions in 2006, so versatility is a selling point for him.

Dodgers GM Ned Colletti is known to be a fan of Aurilia from their days together in San Francisco, so Los Angeles might also be in the mix.

Wheelhouse
11-14-2006, 03:03 AM
The Phillies burned a big pile of money when they signed David Bell.

Now, looks like they're gonna continue that trend if they sign Rich Aurilia. I can't imagine he'd come back to us for under 2M, so let me be one of the first to say, c ya Rich.

The real joy will be when you can sub "Dunn" for "Rich" in that phrase.

Jpup
11-14-2006, 06:57 AM
the day he is gone, will be a good day IMO. I've always got bad vibes from him even when he played for the Giants.

Highlifeman21
11-14-2006, 10:52 AM
The real joy will be when you can sub "Dunn" for "Rich" in that phrase.

I still don't get it. Why do you want Dunn gone so bad? Dunn was our best offensive player last year, and has been for a number of years. Why say c ya to Dunn? Makes no sense.

redsmetz
11-14-2006, 11:02 AM
I still don't get it. Why do you want Dunn gone so bad? Dunn was our best offensive player last year, and has been for a number of years. Why say c ya to Dunn? Makes no sense.

Didn't you get the memo? Dunn is the player to hate, particularly if you can do so in conjunction with Griffey, but you are permitted to (in fact, MUST) hate Dunn. No week is ever permitted to pass without some suggestion that Dunn be sent packing because he is nothing but a slacker, a pariah, a strike out machine, etc. etc. etc.

Well, that seems to be the word on the street at RedsZone.

After he's gone and he's succeeding elsewhere, then the mantra will be "why did we ever let this guy go?". And that will be weekly, if not daily.

toledodan
11-14-2006, 11:25 AM
lets see: lets let rich go, lets trade dunn. at the rate we are going we will have no offense left.:bang:

savafan
11-14-2006, 12:15 PM
Didn't you get the memo? Dunn is the player to hate, particularly if you can do so in conjunction with Griffey, but you are permitted to (in fact, MUST) hate Dunn. No week is ever permitted to pass without some suggestion that Dunn be sent packing because he is nothing but a slacker, a pariah, a strike out machine, etc. etc. etc.

Well, that seems to be the word on the street at RedsZone.

After he's gone and he's succeeding elsewhere, then the mantra will be "why did we ever let this guy go?". And that will be weekly, if not daily.

Yes, and every Redszone thread must develop into a rant as to why Dunn is teh suck!

KronoRed
11-14-2006, 12:31 PM
lets see: lets let rich go, lets trade dunn. at the rate we are going we will have no offense left.:bang:

Dude..we'll trade for some hackers and never take walks and score a bazillion runs! WOO!

Strikes Out Looking
11-14-2006, 01:19 PM
I don't want to hijack this thread and make it about Dunn, but I think many on the board aren't so much as Dunn haters as frustrated by his lack of progress. Yes, I know, his statistical numbers (HRs, runs, OBP) last season were still very good, but I think many believe they could be better-and we (and probably the Red's brass as well) just don't know how to make that happen. After the Kearns trade last summer, he had a period when he looked like the Adam Dunn we believe he can be. Then in September he made you pine for, oh I don't know, Duane Walker. So, IMO, many are just frustrated by the big guy and would rather have someone who played better defense, consistently hit 25-30 homers and hit .270 and trading him would also may net another starting pitcher.

As for me, I'm on the fence, because frankly, I'm terrified he'd go somewhere else, become a FA, go to Houston and kill the Reds for years to come. But I'm also frustrated by his inconsistent play.

As for Rich Aurilia, he can go. While he did play well last year, there is just something about the guy that rubs me the wrong way. Maybe its the taint of his being an ex-teammate of Barry Bonds?

Doc. Scott
11-14-2006, 01:25 PM
I wouldn't offer it to him. Too risky.

Agreed. With seasons like 2001 in his past and coming off a very good year, he could make wayyyyy more than the Reds could afford to pay him.

I think I might have offered it last year, though. As it turns out, DanO actually played that situation well and got the guy back for what turned out to be a pretty solid deal. Of course, Richie's agent was negotiating with the Reds and crickets, and DanO actually managed to outmanuever Jiminy & Co (!). It doesn't surprise me that this year's a little different.

Heath
11-14-2006, 01:26 PM
As for Rich Aurilia, he can go. While he did play well last year, there is just something about the guy that rubs me the wrong way. Maybe its the taint of his being an ex-teammate of Barry Bonds?


Also, RA was a pal of Bonds which is double sneaky in my book.

Everytime we get in to a Dunn bashing party - i'm reminded of woy's line about defending Dunn is absurd, plus woy's stats homework on Dunn. Then I'm, glad he's on our team.

jimbo
11-14-2006, 02:06 PM
Yes, I know, his statistical numbers (HRs, runs, OBP) last season were still very good, but I think many believe they could be better-and we (and probably the Red's brass as well) just don't know how to make that happen.

Maybe it's as simple as he is what he is. The problem I see with the anti-Dunn people is that they try to make him into something he "could" or "should" be. Regardless of what he "could" be, he is still the most potent offensive player on this team and it would be very difficult to replace his output if he was traded.

toledodan
11-14-2006, 02:06 PM
Also, RA was a pal of Bonds which is double sneaky in my book.

Everytime we get in to a Dunn bashing party - i'm reminded of woy's line about defending Dunn is absurd, plus woy's stats homework on Dunn. Then I'm, glad he's on our team.



griffey is also good friends with bonds. i guess we need to get rid of him as well.:rolleyes:

Wheelhouse
11-14-2006, 03:50 PM
I still don't get it. Why do you want Dunn gone so bad? Dunn was our best offensive player last year, and has been for a number of years. Why say c ya to Dunn? Makes no sense.

I don't like the "c ya" sentiment in terms of Aurilia. It's blind contempt. Just wanted to illustrate that.

KronoRed
11-14-2006, 06:24 PM
How is it blind contempt to not want to pay Aurilia a ton of money at his age?

To me "blind contempt" is taking a thread about a different player and turning it into a "Dunn sucks" thread, as if we don't have enough of those.

Strikes Out Looking
11-14-2006, 06:42 PM
griffey is also good friends with bonds. i guess we need to get rid of him as well.:rolleyes:

Griffey was never a teammate of Bonds. We should get rid of Griffey because we need a cf that can consistently play 145 games a year and field his position exceptionally well, especially if Dunn is in LF.

Mario-Rijo
11-14-2006, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by jimbo
Maybe it's as simple as he is what he is. The problem I see with the anti-Dunn people is that they try to make him into something he "could" or "should" be. Regardless of what he "could" be, he is still the most potent offensive player on this team and it would be very difficult to replace his output if he was traded.

Look I see your point and it's dead on. At least the part about people seeing what he could or should be. To me it's real simple he could be better, but he isn't progressing like he should. Progression like that takes 1 thing, DESIRE and it's almost as if he does not have the desire to be better because he hasn't progressed. He is what he is because he wants too be or because he doesn't have the proper help to get there. I don't completely buy the latter because if he really wanted to he would have figured it out by now whether he had the proper coaching or not. I mean if I had that kind of talent and wasn't making enough contact I would go outside of the organization if I had to, in order to correct the problem.

At one point I felt like people were to on hard on him too soon, afterall this is the big leagues and progression can sometimes come slow. I have actually seen him improve in certain phases of his game for the 1st few years but I also seen him regress in some of those areas and others this past season. I feel like this year will be his last chance in a Reds uniform, whether he figures it out or not. I don't believe he likes it in Cincy for whatever reason (probably all the losing and others attitudes) and his attitude towards everyone not named Griffey (and friends) has been less than reasonable at times.

Don't get me wrong he is our best player and I don't expect him to be perfect, but I want this team to win if I am going to invest my time and money into it. And it cannot win with Dunn as it's best player if he isn't fully committed and he comes off at times like he would rather be fishing or watching the Longhorns play a football game. Hmmm, it could be he is one of those guys who's passion is the sport he left behind and his job is the one he is better at.

He is no different than alot of us who are in that position and that's ok, because he shows up to work every day and does his job the best he can with the way he is now. The problem lies with his inability to "read his policy and procedure manual", "doesn't volunteer for overtime" and "doesn't attend seminars or workshops to improve his skills". It doesn't make him a bad guy that he isn't improving, but he is definitely not a team guy who is doing everything possible to help this team get to that point. Therein lies the problem when your most talented employee isn't the most committed for whatever reason. Gauranteed there will be some frustration and there will be some losing. And you can bet the farm that the boss doesn't want to continue to pay elite wages for that level of commitment no matter what the potential return is. "The Boss" will downsize after one last shot (Jacoby?) at getting that potential to rise to the top.

'Cause bottom line it's about one thing WINNING and those who are not completely on the bandwagon, might get their foot stuck in the wheel and yanked completely off the thing when we hit a bump.

jimbo
11-14-2006, 07:28 PM
Look I see your point and it's dead on. At least the part about people seeing what he could or should be. To me it's real simple he could be better, but he isn't progressing like he should. Progression like that takes 1 thing, DESIRE and it's almost as if he does not have the desire to be better because he hasn't progressed. He is what he is because he wants too be or because he doesn't have the proper help to get there. I don't completely buy the latter because if he really wanted to he would have figured it out by now whether he had the proper coaching or not.


A lot of what you are saying though is just assumption. None of us really know what kind of effort Dunn puts into improving. I really don't know what he does during the off-season, but from all indications he works hard during the season. Fact of the matter is, we only see the games, not what goes on behind the scenes and during workout time. Just because he likes to golf once in a while after a game does not equate to him being lazy or that he has no desire to improve. To say he isn't progressing as he should is just guessing. You can say the same thing about any other player. I can also make the assumption that given his ability, maybe he is as good as he will ever be.


I mean if I had that kind of talent and wasn't making enough contact I would go outside of the organization if I had to, in order to correct the problem.

But that doesn't necessarily mean you will improve if your talent has reached it's peak.

Highlifeman21
11-15-2006, 12:30 AM
I don't like the "c ya" sentiment in terms of Aurilia. It's blind contempt. Just wanted to illustrate that.

I felt "c ya" towards Sean Casey probably 2 years before we finally salary dumped him. I'll concede that if Dunn has consecutive seasons of 150+ games and a sub .800 OPS, then he'd fall into my salary dump category. He was .850+ in 2006 with 21 Win Shares, so that's borderline concern for me. If he does the same in 2007, he still has more value to us than what we'd get via trade.

As for RA. He didn't want to be here in 2005, and certainly didn't want to be here in 2006. Paying him more than 2M a year to try to make him happy in Cincy isn't my idea of a good business investment. RA held this city in contempt for the last 2 years, and not so blindly. Time for him to price real estate in a new market. I just hope we get a draft pick as compensation.

redsfanmia
11-15-2006, 03:02 PM
Maybe it's as simple as he is what he is. The problem I see with the anti-Dunn people is that they try to make him into something he "could" or "should" be. Regardless of what he "could" be, he is still the most potent offensive player on this team and it would be very difficult to replace his output if he was traded.

This is part of my problem with Dunn I really thought he would be an MVP candidate for an eight year stretch. My main problen is Dunn is his lack of improvement and his weight gain, both which tell me he is not dedicated to being the best he can be.

registerthis
11-15-2006, 04:09 PM
This is part of my problem with Dunn I really thought he would be an MVP candidate for an eight year stretch. My main problen is Dunn is his lack of improvement and his weight gain, both which tell me he is not dedicated to being the best he can be.

I can't speak to his dedication, but what I can speak to is a two year decline in his offensive numbers and the fact that his outfield defense remains as bad as ever. What that's attributable to, I can't say. But I do think that 2007 is shaping up to be a real crossroads for Dunn and the Reds.

The Reds are not in a position to be paying $13 mil a year for a player OPSing in the .850s. If he can rebound and get back to .925-.950, that's a different story. And I'm no unabashed Dunn critic, I've seen the same stats as everyone else, and I fully respect and appreciate what he brings to this team in the way of power and run scoring ability. But the Reds simply cannot be competitive if their offensive cornerstone and highest-paid player is OPSing .850 and tripping over himself in left field. Dunn's consistent 40 home run power will dictate a rather hefty price tag for his services in the near future, and I'm honestly on the fence about whether or not the Reds should invest substantially in him.

redsfanmia
11-15-2006, 06:25 PM
Adam Dunn is not a 13 million dollar a year player atleast not for the Reds. There is no way that the Reds can give a player of Adam Dunn's skills 1/5th of thier payroll.

Mario-Rijo
11-15-2006, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by jimbo
But that doesn't necessarily mean you will improve if your talent has reached it's peak.

His talent has reached it's peak, i'm not arguing that. What I am arguing is his approach to the game, or technique, or desire. Your right I am assuming, and I don't know anything about his off-season or inseason for that matter with 100% certainty. But my opinion is based on results, he is not getting them and with that power and great eye he should be far better. But again I will state my opinion his hands need to come down, it just makes perfect sense too me. And until somebody can give me reason to believe otherwise I will always believe that he will not get better until he does it.