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Ltlabner
11-13-2006, 08:36 PM
Were there any players that you idolized as a kid only to find out later they kinda stunk? Or, at least, they weren't as good as you made them out to be in your young and cracker jack buzzed mind.

Mine is Cesar Geronimo, mostly because I have a foul ball he hit in 1980. We were in the green section of Riverfront and it plopped down infront of us. While he wasn't a dreadfull player he wasn't exactly the lynchpin of the BRM that I envisioned him to be back then.

redsupport
11-13-2006, 08:39 PM
I idolized Dom Zanni only to realize that he was not half as good as Howie Nunn

Team Clark
11-13-2006, 08:53 PM
Tracy Jones, Tim Spehr, Lee Mazzilli and Jay Johnstone.

Spring~Fields
11-13-2006, 10:04 PM
Johnny Edwards, Deron Johnson, Leo Cardenas.

I don't know if they really stunk, but as a child I thought that they could do no wrong until later when I learned of guys named Johnny Bench, Brooks Robinson and of course many shortstops since.

Patrick Bateman
11-14-2006, 12:57 AM
I thought Jacob Brumfield was pretty good back in the day. I have no idea why.

Slyder
11-14-2006, 01:17 AM
I thought Jacob Brumfield was pretty good back in the day. I have no idea why.

Todd Benzinger..... Nothing more needs to be said.

macro
11-14-2006, 01:49 AM
Growing up in the 70s, I thought the members of the BRM walked on water. I later read stories that proved that they were quite human, and it was disappointing. Same goes for the 1990 Reds. I loved that bunch, but after the Charlie Sheen stories came out, I questioned the fact that I even rooted for them. As Jerry Seinfeld said, we're basically rooting for the uniforms.

RANDY IN INDY
11-14-2006, 07:00 AM
Bobby Tolan and Alex Johnson. They could play, but not the best personalites.

RFS62
11-14-2006, 07:09 AM
Johnny Edwards was my first favorite player. When he stopped hitting, it really hurt.

RedsBaron
11-14-2006, 07:11 AM
Growing up in the 70s, I thought the members of the BRM walked on water. I later read stories that proved that they were quite human, and it was disappointing.

I've read the stories, too, and my head knows about the shortcomings of the players on the BRM, but in my heart they still walk on water. I know it is not logical, but it just "is" for me.
I pretty much overrated all of the Reds when I first became a fan, including "Little" Leo Cardenas, Deron Johnson, Tommy Harper, Gary Nolan, Lee May, Tommy Helms, you name it. I agree with Randy---Tolan and A.J. could play ball, but they left something to be desired as people.
From everything I 've read, the two best "people" to ever put on a Reds uniform may have been Tony Perez and Sparky Anderson.

RedsBaron
11-14-2006, 07:14 AM
Johnny Edwards was my first favorite player. When he stopped hitting, it really hurt.

Yeah. Edwards was a three time all star, two time Gold Glove winner, but his hitting suddenly fell off a cliff in 1966. I never heard what happened--did he simply wear out from catching even though he wasn't that old?

RFS62
11-14-2006, 07:16 AM
I've heard that he was a heavy drinker, although I never heard that when I was a kid. Don't know if it factored in or not.

RedsBaron
11-14-2006, 07:25 AM
I've heard that he was a heavy drinker, although I never heard that when I was a kid. Don't know if it factored in or not.

Now that you mention that, I believe that Jim Bouton in "Ball Four" may have written something about Edwards's drinking too much and "calling some long home runs"-it may have been in the lyrics of "Proud To Be An Astro", the song Bouton wrote that the Houston players sang during the 1969 NL West title chase. Man, I haven't read "Ball Four" in 30 years.

scounts22
11-14-2006, 07:50 AM
Bret Boone. I was young and naieve.

BoxingRed
11-14-2006, 07:52 AM
I loved Eddie Milner. I constantly fought with my Dad, insisting that he was better than Eric Davis when Davis first came up. I guess for a couple of years he was. ;) Fact is, those Reds teams were atrocious and, as a 10 year old kid, I had to find someone to like. It ws pretty saddening when I found out he was a coke-head. Glad he is cleaned up now.

919191
11-14-2006, 08:34 AM
Duane Walker and Alan Knicely. I thought they would be studs, but I wanted Knicely to move to first. I also wondered if Brian Dorsett could have hit if he got regular at bats. I don't know why I thought that. He owns a Mitsubishi dealership in Terre Haute now, and he was involved in youth baseball, not sure if he is now or not.

Patpacillosjock
11-14-2006, 09:00 AM
I thought Hal morris was the 2nd coming of mark grace.

Bill Doran for some reason..I thought Oester was going to the HOF lol

oh and BO Diaz

RichRed
11-14-2006, 09:16 AM
In my head, Gary Redus was going to make us all forget...well, every player who ever lived. He was THAT good. Whoops.

terminator
11-14-2006, 09:27 AM
Redus, Milner, Essasky, Householder and Stillwell are ones that jump to mind.

SeeinRed
11-14-2006, 10:01 AM
I've always liked catchers for some reason. Eddie Taubensee and Benito Santiago were a couple catchers I liked. I still find myself favoring catchers. I think LaRue is very underrated especially after last year, and especially when it comes to controlling the running game.

NJReds
11-14-2006, 10:05 AM
In my head, Gary Redus was going to make us all forget...well, every player who ever lived. He was THAT good. Whoops.

I was on the Redus bandwagon too...and a big fan of Nick Esasky!

westofyou
11-14-2006, 10:10 AM
In my head, Gary Redus was going to make us all forget...well, every player who ever lived. He was THAT good. Whoops.

Gary Redus, who never hit higher than .288 in a 13-year Major League career, holds the all-time Minor League mark [minimum 200 at-bats] with .462 at Billings of the Pioneer League in 1978.

258 at bats - 100 runs - 117 hits - 62 bb - 42 ebh - 42 steals - .462

George Anderson
11-14-2006, 10:13 AM
I was on the Redus bandwagon too...and a big fan of Nick Esasky!

I remember Redus on opening day I believe in 1982 hitting the go ahead home run and making a game saving catch running in to the left field wall. I thought at the time and several months later he was destined for Cooperstown.

Danny Serafini
11-14-2006, 10:27 AM
Freddie Benavides and Leo Garcia. I figured if they were constantly getting called up they must be some sort of supersubs. I didn't factor in the fact that they were constantly getting sent down as well.

redsupport
11-14-2006, 10:42 AM
Steve Christmas was the best

RichRed
11-14-2006, 11:06 AM
How could I have been so wrong about Sheldon Burnside?

registerthis
11-14-2006, 11:09 AM
How could I have been so wrong about Sheldon Burnside?

It could be worse...I hitched my cart to Adrian Burnside.

Cedric
11-14-2006, 11:10 AM
Eddie Milner.

RichRed
11-14-2006, 11:10 AM
Gary Redus, who never hit higher than .288 in a 13-year Major League career, holds the all-time Minor League mark [minimum 200 at-bats] with .462 at Billings of the Pioneer League in 1978.

258 at bats - 100 runs - 117 hits - 62 bb - 42 ebh - 42 steals - .462

Holy moly - an OPS of 1.355! Talk about peaking early.

macro
11-14-2006, 11:29 AM
Members of that 1982 team seem to be coming up a lot in this thread, and with good reason. I remember the 1982 Reds yearbook had an article about Dick Wagner and how he had done such a good job of replacing the players lost from the 1981 team, and I truly believed it. Cesar Cedeno in a Reds uniform? I loved it! Former SI cover boy Clint Hurdle, too? And future all star catcher Alex Trevino, along with home grown future stars Householder, Redus, and Duane Walker.

That was, by far, my most disappointing year as a Reds fan, and I'm sure others here feel the same.

FutureRedsGM
11-14-2006, 11:38 AM
Kal Daniels. Chris Sabo. Ray Knight.

Non-Reds: Mookie Wilson, Von Hayes

BoydsOfSummer
11-14-2006, 11:48 AM
Gary Redus, who never hit higher than .288 in a 13-year Major League career, holds the all-time Minor League mark [minimum 200 at-bats] with .462 at Billings of the Pioneer League in 1978.

258 at bats - 100 runs - 117 hits - 62 bb - 42 ebh - 42 steals - .462

Great googly-moogly! That's one helluva 258 AB stretch! I was pretty high on Redus myself. Milner was a guy I thought was better than he actually was,looking back. But like BoxingRed said, those teams reeked and you had to like somebody.

Cooper
11-14-2006, 11:53 AM
Wagner must of done a good job selling that 82 team cause i remember it the same way many of you have mentioned --he made it seem like we weren't rebuilding but re-loading. Was it our perceptions or did he really sell it like that? Surely the man must of known that things were gonna go somewhat south of where they had been finishing.

As i remember it, Wagner sold it as just the beginning of a new generation of Reds dominance. Seems to me the papers presented it in the same way.

I was young back then so my thinking may fault me....did Wagner present it that way? Did even older fans buy into the sell. You can't fault folks for doing so -the Reds could do little wrong back then -and to some extent Wagner was able to ride out and squeeze some more years out of the BRM. Why did he think things would continue to run smoothly? Why did he present these guys as the next great thing?

redsupport
11-14-2006, 11:54 AM
My top 10 idols, I thought they were the next incarnation of Babe Ruth

10. Neil Fiala
9. Rafael Santo Domingo
8. Kelly Paris
7. Jake Wood
6. Larry Biitner
5. Larry Stahl
4. Larry leubbers
3. Junior Kennedy
2. Xavier Hernandez
1. The cant miss all american Dave Van Gorder

westofyou
11-14-2006, 11:55 AM
did Wagner present it that way?

Wagner stated that Paul Householder had more talent than any Reds prospect that he had ever seen.

Wagner was strong on the business side of the game and weak on the stuff that Howsam excelled at. Giving him the reigns was a mistake.

Chip R
11-14-2006, 11:56 AM
Wagner must of done a good job selling that 82 team cause i remember it the same way many of you have mentioned --he made it seem like we weren't rebuilding but re-loading. Was it our perceptions or did he really sell it like that? Surely the man must of known that things were gonna go somewhat south of where they had been finishing.

As i remember it, Wagner sold it as just the beginning of a new generation of Reds dominance. Seems to me the papers presented it in the same way.

I was young back then so my thinking may fault me....did Wagner present it that way? Did even older fans buy into the sell. You can't fault folks for doing so -the Reds could do little wrong back then -and to some extent Wagner was able to ride out and squeeze some more years out of the BRM. Why did he think things would continue to run smoothly? Why did he present these guys as the next great thing?


They were coming off a great season in 1981 so that may have had something to do with it.

westofyou
11-14-2006, 11:58 AM
They were coming off a great season in 1981 so that may have had something to do with it.

Great as in exceeding the Pythag mightily

Scored 464 runs, Allowed 440 runs. Pythagorean W-L: 57-51 - Actual 66-42

George Anderson
11-14-2006, 12:05 PM
Members of that 1982 team seem to be coming up a lot in this thread, and with good reason. I remember the 1982 Reds yearbook had an article about Dick Wagner and how he had done such a good job of replacing the players lost from the 1981 team, and I truly believed it. Cesar Cedeno in a Reds uniform? I loved it! Former SI cover boy Clint Hurdle, too? And future all star catcher Alex Trevino, along with home grown future stars Householder, Redus, and Duane Walker.

That was, by far, my most disappointing year as a Reds fan, and I'm sure others here feel the same.



I thought the exact same thing back then. I remember projecting what the 1982 Reds were gonna do based on past history and what they had done the year before in Indianapolis. I recall having Householder batting around .300 with 20 plus homeruns and 100 RBI's. Clint Hurdle would finally reach the potential he had never reached in KC and be a shoo in for the All Star team. Alex Trevino would be so feared from behind the plate that Vince Coleman would not even think of stealing second base. Cesar Cedeno getting out of the Astrodome would put up 30-40 homers without a doubt. Johnny Bench getting out from behind the plate would let him put up the offensive type numbers he had during his MVP years. If Gary Redus could bat .500 in the minors then surely he could bat .350 or so in the Big Leagues.

I guess back then I was drinking the same stuff Dick Wagner was!!!

BuckWoody
11-14-2006, 12:15 PM
I thought that Frank Pastore was the next Tom Seaver. :(

dfs
11-14-2006, 12:18 PM
I wasn't a kid, but after the 86 season I was on the Tracy Jones bandwagon. I didn't understand that if you don't crack a major league roster till you're 25, you are not going to be a star.

dabvu2498
11-14-2006, 12:28 PM
I wasn't a kid, but after the 86 season I was on the Tracy Jones bandwagon. I didn't understand that if you don't crack a major league roster till you're 25, you are not going to be a star.

Tracy Jones wasn't a star???

Somebody needs to tell Tracy Jones about this.

redsupport
11-14-2006, 12:34 PM
maybe Chris Jones or Jeff Jones was the true star

terminator
11-14-2006, 12:35 PM
I wasn't a kid, but after the 86 season I was on the Tracy Jones bandwagon. I didn't understand that if you don't crack a major league roster till you're 25, you are not going to be a star.
But don't mention it to Denorfia, please.

Degenerate39
11-14-2006, 12:40 PM
Adam Dunn and the current Ken Griffey Jr.

George Anderson
11-14-2006, 12:59 PM
Tracy Jones wasn't a star???

Somebody needs to tell Tracy Jones about this.

No but If you didnt know already he "played the game"

vaticanplum
11-14-2006, 06:29 PM
Herm Winningham. Don't ask, because I don't know.

camisadelgolf
11-14-2006, 06:40 PM
I always thought Spuds was special, but he didn't really have prolonged success. I thought Willie Greene was going to finally turn a corner and become a superstar. I thought Bip Roberts was the best player I ever saw (and for 1992, I still think he was). I thought Jeff Branson was the best utility player ever. It was always a mystery to me that Duane Henry had only one good year when I could've sworn he was good for a long time. Tim Pugh is idolized in my mind because he was two outs away from a no-hitter, but upon review, he was two good pitches away from being a decent starter. I thought Tim Layana was great because he had a 3.49 ERA over 80 innings as a rookie in 1990, but he did nothing after that. I thought Stan Jefferson was going to be something special. I thought Deion Sanders was a superstar, but at best, he was merely serviceable. Speaking of which, I thought Scott Service and Jerry Spradlin were two great relievers. I also thought Johnny Ruffin had an incredible slider and was a future closer. What's a line break? Sorry.

sully_for_prez
11-14-2006, 07:04 PM
Glenn Braggs.....it was the whole breaking the bat on his back swinging thing. I was young, impressionable.....

CWRed
11-14-2006, 08:50 PM
Nick Esasky.

And, for some reason, I loved Dan Driessen. Solid ballplayer. Hero to all.

Blimpie
11-14-2006, 09:20 PM
I had quite the man crush on both Chris Stynes and Jon Nunnally for a while there in the late 90's.

There. I said it.

RedsBaron
11-14-2006, 09:29 PM
No but If you didnt know already he "played the game"

Really? Wow. Tracy really should let people know that. He's too modest.

mth123
11-14-2006, 10:41 PM
Pete Rose.

The disappointment came later of course.

macro
11-14-2006, 11:27 PM
I thought that Frank Pastore was the next Tom Seaver. :(

Pastore's motion and delivery were compared to Seaver's. Unfortunately, that's where the comparisons ended.

ThatPitchIsDunn
11-14-2006, 11:33 PM
I'm sure Highlifeman will agree with me here; for no real reason we both dug Joey Hamilton to the nth degree. We had some ridiculous nickname for him, although I can't recall it. Highlifeman, help me out here!

Highlifeman21
11-14-2006, 11:49 PM
I'm sure Highlifeman will agree with me here; for no real reason we both dug Joey Hamilton to the nth degree. We had some ridiculous nickname for him, although I can't recall it. Highlifeman, help me out here!


Yo, way to bring me out of the closet with Joey "Staff Ace" Hamilton. Remember though, we also rooted for Elmer "South of the Border" Dessens as well. And you rarely let me forget my manlove for Russell Branyan.

But seriously, way to out me on Joey freakin Hamilton. I think I need to go take a shower or something to wash that filth off me.

ThatPitchIsDunn
11-14-2006, 11:58 PM
Yo, way to bring me out of the closet with Joey "Staff Ace" Hamilton. Remember though, we also rooted for Elmer "South of the Border" Dessens as well. And you rarely let me forget my manlove for Russell Branyan.

But seriously, way to out me on Joey freakin Hamilton. I think I need to go take a shower or something to wash that filth off me.

Ah the staff ace. How in the world was this guy our opening day starter that year?

And don't worry, I'll take more credit for becoming a fan of him and influencing you. You're on your own on Branyan though.

WVRedsFan
11-15-2006, 12:15 AM
Johnny Edwards was my first favorite player. When he stopped hitting, it really hurt.

I liked Edwards, too. I can remember something in one of those old baseball magazines, written for the 1962 season that said, "Edwards hit .186 in 1961, but had a lot of clutch hits." And under his picture was a caption that read, "In the clutch, hits." So, since I was like 13, I thought he was the best clutch hitter in baseball. He wasn't, of course, but I thought he was.

I also liked my avatar Bob Purkey. After baseball, he went into the insurance business up in Pittsburgh. I ran into a guy who knew (or knows) him personally and he called him a "junkballer." My hero who won 23 games in 1962 a "junkballer." It devastated me some 40 years after he was my hero. I still can remember the great things he did as a Reds pitcher. And that knuckleball kept people off their game for something like 100 wins in his time with the Reds. Not basd for a "junkballer."

RedsBaron
11-15-2006, 05:42 AM
I also liked my avatar Bob Purkey. After baseball, he went into the insurance business up in Pittsburgh. I ran into a guy who knew (or knows) him personally and he called him a "junkballer." My hero who won 23 games in 1962 a "junkballer." It devastated me some 40 years after he was my hero. I still can remember the great things he did as a Reds pitcher. And that knuckleball kept people off their game for something like 100 wins in his time with the Reds. Not basd for a "junkballer."

I believe that Bill James has argued that Purkey's great 23 win season in 1962 was just as good as Don Drysdale's Cy Young award winning 25 win year that season. Drysdale won a couple of more games, pitching for a better team with a more favorable pitcher's park, but Purkey was as effective. Drysdale looked like a Cy Young winner and was from LA; Purkey had neither advantage.

RedsBaron
11-15-2006, 05:44 AM
I thought that Frank Pastore was the next Tom Seaver. :(

Pastore looked great down the stretch in 1979 and pitched well in 1980. I had great expectations for him.

redsfanfalcon
11-15-2006, 06:46 AM
When I was 10, my dad and I had a discussion and I swore that Kurt Stillwell was going to be WAY better than Barry Larkin...I think my dad was right.

Roy Tucker
11-15-2006, 08:26 AM
When I was 10, my dad and I had a discussion and I swore that Kurt Stillwell was going to be WAY better than Barry Larkin...I think my dad was right.

You and me both. I thought Larkin would be lucky to get over the Mendoza line. Stillwell was the future.

I was a big Johhny Edwards fan too. My dad was a Don Pavletich fan (or Pav as he called him). We'd have catcher discussions.

I had a boy-man crush on Deron Johnson's square jaw and steely glare.

I thought Duane Walker was just waiting to bust out.

I thought if Willie Greene could stay healthy and get some PT, he was the answer at SS.

I thought if Bill Plummer went to another team, he'd be an All-Star.

Jon Nunnally just needed to play regularly.

Art Shamsky needed to play more too.

I was in love with Jimmy Stewart's scrappiness.

Buddy Bradford was a 5-tool player.

Gene Locklear was a potential batting champion (I drank Sparky's Kool-Aid).

I liked Richie Scheinblum's baseball card picture.

I liked Junior Kennedy in the same vein as Jimmy Stewart.

I thought Doug Capilla was going to throw a no-hitter some day.

Paul Moskau needed to stay in the rotation and not be a spot-starter.

German Barranca was a diamond-in-the-rough.

Brad Lesley, the Animal.

Skeeter Barnes was a potential stolen base king. Why I thought that, I'll never know.

They needed to stop moving Alan Knicely around and let him catch.

Jay Tibbs just never seemed to get run support.

Rob Murphy should have been better than what he was. I always thought he was just ready to bust out.

If Luis Quinones could get his head into the game, he'd be pretty good.

Terry McGriff looked like a player.

Jack Armstrong and Scott Scudder.

Rolando Roomes was going to patrol the OF with Eric Davis and be a monster player.

Mo Sanford was the second coming of Wayne Simpson.

Why the Reds released Geronimo Berroa, I'll never know.

Scott Ruskin looked like a good reliever and then he disappeared.

Thomas Howard was never quite as good as I thought he was.

If Hector Carrasco could only get his head screwed on straight.

Eric Anthony had some serious pop, just needed some PT.

Curt Lyons was next Rob Dibble.

John Hudek and John Riedling, I always got them mixed up.

Scott Winchester was on the brink of greatness.

Jose Acevedo and Luis Pineda, if they could only harness their stuff.

Randy Keisler.

Corky Miller.

And I thought Andy Abad was going to have a big 2006.

redsupport
11-15-2006, 10:46 AM
Guy Hoffman had scrappiness
If only Kurt kepshire and Jeff Lahti were not traded
Terry Lee and Tim Costo were great sluggers
Jesse Gonder should have been given more playing time
Why was Floyd Robinson not allowed to roam