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Mario-Rijo
11-15-2006, 08:48 PM
Some extremely interesting tidbits IMO. I'll bold what strikes me as of interest too the Reds.



11/15/2006 6:02 PM ET
Do Yanks have view to a Gil?
Report: Bombers interested in right-hander Meche
By Jim Street / MLB.com

Right-handed starter Gil Meche had an 11-8 record and 4.48 ERA in 32 starts for the Mariners last season.

Who says lightning doesn't strike twice in the same place?
It could happen during the Hot Stove season as New York Yankees general manager Brian Cashman attempts to assemble a starting rotation that can enable the Bronx Bombers to capture their 10th consecutive American League East title and the franchise's 27th World Series championship.

A report out of the Big Apple on Wednesday mentioned that the Yankees have "shown an interest" in free-agent right-hander Gil Meche, born and raised in the same city Yankees pitching coach Ron Guidry calls home -- Lafayette, La.

Guidry was known as "Louisiana Lightning" because he had such a terrific fastball during his brilliant Major League career with the Bronx Bombers.

Meche also has a nickname: "Louisiana Lightning II."

The similarity ends there.

While Guidry won 170 games and a Cy Young Award in his big-league career, Meche's claim to fame during his 55-win career with the Seattle Mariners came in 2003, when he won both of his starts at Yankee Stadium. Meche surrendered one run in 15 2/3 innings, and defeated both Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte.

Though the short right-field fence in Yankee Stadium could be a strike against Meche, a fly-ball pitcher, he's still young (28) and entering what should be the prime years of his career.

The going price figures to be about $9 million a season and a three- or four-year deal seems reasonable in the current market. Meche had an 11-8 record and 4.48 ERA in 32 starts for the Mariners last season and made $3.7 million.

The Yankees actually might have a bigger catch than Meche in their sights.

According to Newsday, the organization has held internal discussions about acquiring Dontrelle Willis from the Florida Marlins. Any Yankees trade package for the left-hander would probably have to include Melky Cabrera, as the Marlins' greatest need is an affordable center fielder. Even if Florida is to deal Willis, the newspaper said the Yankees would likely have stiff competition from the Diamondbacks, Dodgers and Mets, each of whom could probably offer better packages.

As you see, the burners on the Hot Stove are starting to sizzle a little hotter as the offseason moves towards Thanksgiving.

In other developments:

Red Sox: Aside from getting Daisuke Matsuzaka signed to a contract by Dec. 15, the other big item on Boston's agenda is bulking up the bullpen. The Boston Herald reported that the Sox met with the Astros at the GM meetings on Tuesday. The report speculated that three of the players Boston acquired about were relievers Brad Lidge, Brad Qualls and Dan Wheeler. For his part, Astros GM Tim Purpura refuted the Herald report.

Mariners: Sources say the Mariners will not bid for the rights to negotiate with Hanshin Tigers left-hander Kei Igawa, who has yet to be posted. Mariners majority owner Hiroshi Yamauchi, who recently balked at joining the bid process for Matsuzaka, has let it be known that he has no interest in Igawa. Right-hander Adam Eaton told the Everett Herald that the Mariners are one of the teams he would be interested in signing with, and insisted that the finger injury that kept him sidelined for much of last season with the Rangers is completely healed.

Rangers: Talks between the Rangers and Eaton's agent, Jim Lindell, continue. Lindell told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram that 18 teams have expressed interest in the pitcher and eight of them "showed strong interest." Outfielder David Dellucci told the newspaper that he has been contacted by 11 teams. He said his preference is to return to the Rangers, but is looking for playing time and a multi-year contract.

Padres: After watching Nomar Garciaparra make a smooth transition from shortstop to first base with the Los Angeles Dodgers, the Padres could be considering Garciaparra as the team's next second baseman. According to a report in the San Diego Union-Tribune, Garciaparra, Todd Walker and Ray Durham have moved to the top of the Padres' list of free-agent second base candidates to replace Josh Barfield.

Marlins: The Marlins have interest in Devil Rays center fielder Rocco Baldelli, according to the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. To acquire the speedy outfielder, the paper said the team may consider parting with one of these starters: Josh Johnson, Scott Olsen or Ricky Nolasco. Also, the Phillies remain aggressive in their pursuit of free agent Wes Helms, who would help fill a void at third base while providing depth at first base. The Marlins also are hopeful of retaining Helms, but he may be out of Florida's price range.

Giants: San Francisco has contacted Juan Pierre's agent and are also staying in touch with Gary Matthews Jr., Dave Roberts and Jay Payton as the Giants try to find a center fielder and leadoff hitter. And, according to the San Francisco Chronicle, the Giants continue to talk to Rich Aurilia about playing third base.

Indians: The Tribe has talked with free-agent reliever Danys Baez, a former Indian, according to the Plain Dealer. Baez wants an opportunity to close, and the Indians are in need of a closer. But the cost for Baez in a thin market might be more than the Indians are willing to pay.


Blue Jays: Toronto general manager J.P. Ricciardi told the Toronto Sun that he had contacted the agents for starters Vicente Padilla, Randy Wolf and Meche, and shortstop Alex Gonzalez. The Jays might be forced to find a replacement for pitcher Ted Lilly, who is reportedly seeking a four-year deal worth between $35-40 million. Padilla reportedly is seeking a four-year deal worth around $40 million. Catcher Gregg Zaun, who is acting as his own agent, told MLB.com that he has been contacted by about a dozen teams, including the Blue Jays. "There have been some surprises -- some teams that you never would've thought were interested. The offers have been very interesting. That's how I would classify it," he said.

Athletics: General manager Billy Beane spoke with Arn Tellem, the agent for designated hitter Frank Thomas, on Tuesday. Tellem is exploring the open market for Thomas, who is a free agent, and Beane expects to get a chance to match any offer Thomas receives.

Cubs: Now that the Cubs have taken care of their infield by signing third baseman Aramis Ramirez and second baseman Mark DeRosa, general manager Jim Hendry will turn his attention to finding some more offense and filling the rotation vacancies. Hendry has had conversations with agents representing both Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Lee, and would likely favor Soriano because he's more versatile and younger. Another name the Cubs are watching is the Japanese pitcher Igawa, who was expected to be posted by the Hanshin Tigers.

Astros: GM Tim Purpura met with the agent for Carlos Lee on Wednesday and planned to speak with Alfonso Soriano's agent later in the evening. He estimated he'll continue to have "daily talks" with both agents. Purpura also spoke with Barry Meister, the agent for right-hander Woody Williams, on Tuesday.

Orioles: The Baltimore Sun reported that the Orioles have made multi-year offers to right-hander reliever Justin Speier and southpaw relievers Mike Stanton and Jamie Walker. The offers to Speier and Walker are believed to be worth in excess of $10 million. The Sun also reported that the Orioles might be close to bringing back first baseman Kevin Millar. Walker is being eyed by at least five teams and is expected to land a three-year deal by the time the process is over. Detroit, Houston, the White Sox, Angels and Mets are among other teams interested in Walker.

Pirates: Right-hander Ryan Vogelsong is set to sign a contract with the Hashin Tigers, according to the Japan Times. Vogelsong pitched in 20 games for the Pirates and 11 games for Triple-A Indianapolis last season.

edabbs44
11-15-2006, 09:48 PM
Reds: And Wayne Krivsky told the Cincinnati Post that his off-season doesn't start until January, when he starts going through the leftovers from the rest of the teams. Qualities he is looking for in a pitcher is: over 30, whispers of elbow/shoulder pain and, as he put it, "knowing how to play the game".

Seriously....I have absolutely no hopes for this off-season. I think even the slightest of anticipation would end up being a huge disappointment.

Redsfan08
11-15-2006, 09:53 PM
same here brother

Donder
11-15-2006, 10:00 PM
The going price figures to be about $9 million a season and a three- or four-year deal seems reasonable in the current market. Meche had an 11-8 record and 4.48 ERA in 32 starts for the Mariners last season and made $3.7 million.

If this turn out to be true, Meche is going to receive a contract very similar to Milton's. Two questions: Which one is the better pitcher? Does this mean that Milton will be marketable this offseason?

KoryMac5
11-15-2006, 10:27 PM
I would rather take my chances with leftovers than give guys like Meche, Lilly, and Padilla $40 million dollars. Thanks but no thanks.

edabbs44
11-15-2006, 10:39 PM
I would rather take my chances with leftovers than give guys like Meche, Lilly, and Padilla $40 million dollars. Thanks but no thanks.

Then the Reds are destined for tapping their farm system for pitching (and we've all seen how that has worked out), trading for pitching prospects, which is also difficult, or spending the rest of their lives relying on Ryan Franklin and Kyle Lohse. Since they are not going to be able to afford $15 mil per year for a top pitcher, these are the options.

I'm not sure what anyone has against Ted Lilly, who had a 4.31 ERA in the AL last season. True his WHIP was high, but again, this is the AL. And he had a BAA of over .250 in only 2 of the 6 months of the season. Give me Lilly and that's the best top 3 the Reds have had in quite some time.

Mario-Rijo
11-15-2006, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by KoryMac5
I would rather take my chances with leftovers than give guys like Meche, Lilly, and Padilla $40 million dollars. Thanks but no thanks.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52280


I would refer to my above listed thread about the new CBA, 40 Million isn't what it used to be. Here's a few excerpts from that article I had posted.


Say hello to bargaining power! Posted: Wednesday, October 25, 2006

The luxury-tax threshold can be read like baseball's Dow Jones index, and when some executives heard over the weekend that the new threshold will climb a whopping 9 percent to $148 million -- and all the way to $178 million in 2011 -- they agreed that there is going to be a whole lot of money in the days and years ahead to sign free agents and lock up young players to long-term deals.




2. The class of free agents about to hit the market is about to become very rich. Jeff Suppan, the starter for the Cardinals in Wednesday night's Game 4, might have been in the Matt Clement-Eric Milton range three winters ago (three years, $21 million to $25 million). Now he might get a bigger contract -- in the Ben Sheets-Johan Santana range of four years and $40 million. "Teams have money and they are going to pay for pitching," one GM said Tuesday night. "That is the ultimate seller's market." A few months ago, scouts and executives speculated that a talent like Daisuke Matsuzaka might get a $30 million to $40 million deal (beyond the initial posting fee). Now it may be a whole lot more than that.




3. Some veteran players already under contract with one or two years left on their deals will look like bargains. It's a slam dunk now that the Yankees will pick up the $13 million option on Gary Sheffield; Torii Hunter on a one-year, $12 million deal option, just exercised by the Twins, is a tremendous deal.

I.E. Griffey, Milton, Larue etc.



4. The decisions made by some teams in the past 12 months suddenly look very different. The four-year, $47 million contract given to B.J. Ryan by the Blue Jays, once considered near madness by rivals, appears to be a very solid deal. Boston's insistence that Johnny Damon was a $10 million-a-year player? Major mistake, because within a couple of years, the back end of Damon's deal is going to look very reasonable, once peers like Vernon Wells start getting $16 million to $17 million contracts.

• This is a labor agreement that even teams like the Orioles can love, writes Rick Maese.

Or the Reds can love.

Matt700wlw
11-15-2006, 10:47 PM
If they give Ted Lilly $10 Million a year, or somewhere in that figure, we'll be screaming Eric Milton before too long.

He's a fly ball pitcher type.....not saying I would mind him here, but NOT at that price, and have him supposed to be the answer to all the rotation problems. Been there and done that already....

Be careful.

Mario-Rijo
11-15-2006, 10:52 PM
If they give Ted Lilly $10 Million a year, or somewhere in that figure, we'll be screaming Eric Milton before too long.

He's a fly ball pitcher type.....not saying I would mind him here, but NOT at that price, and have him supposed to be the answer to all the rotation problems. Been there and done that already....

From what I understand Meche is also a FB pitcher. I haven't seen much of him so I cannot say for sure.

Matt700wlw
11-15-2006, 10:54 PM
From what I understand Meche is also a FB pitcher. I haven't seen much of him so I cannot say for sure.

I haven't either....I don't see many west coast games

toledodan
11-15-2006, 11:01 PM
If this turn out to be true, Meche is going to receive a contract very similar to Milton's. Two questions: Which one is the better pitcher? Does this mean that Milton will be marketable this offseason?


that is a great point. if all the contracts go up maybe at worst we can unload milton this season.

Mario-Rijo
11-15-2006, 11:21 PM
The Yankees have shown an interest in Seattle free agent Gil Meche and are entertaining the possibility of using newly-acquired Humberto Sanchez in a trade for an established starter.
-- New York Post



Per CNNSI today! Milton anyone? A LH in NY is a nice piece of the puzzle, I'm sure they would rather have something a bit better but it's worth a shot. Then I turn right around and send Sanchez and a minor league arm B or C type BP arm to Cleveland for Westbrook as this was also a headline.


If the Cleveland Indians are serious about obtaining bullpen help, the Cubs may offer a package of young relievers for right-hander Jake Westbrook, a groundball pitcher who would fit nicely at Wrigley Field.
-- Daily Herald



What do ya think?

edabbs44
11-15-2006, 11:21 PM
that is a great point. if all the contracts go up maybe at worst we can unload milton this season.

Milton is gone after this season anyway. Until Bob and Co. starts spending money, the pitching issues will never go away. Who replaces Milton? Another Lohse? Franklin?

Maybe these worries would be alleviated a little if 1st round picks weren't wasted on OFs with questionable hitting. Pitching is so friggin expensive, why didn't the FO use more picks on starting pitching? I am still baffled.

Tim Lincecum says hi.

mth123
11-15-2006, 11:27 PM
Probably can't trade Milton until sometime during the year. He just had surgery.

larks
11-16-2006, 04:31 AM
I want no part of Meche. His numbers dont look impressive at all when you consider he played half his games at Safeco. Really none of the FAs are worth the figures being thrown about. The only one Id consider would be Padilla but he is certainly not worth 9 mil/yr. A Westbrook trade would make the most sense. He has his moments where he is very underwhelming but in the end he is a solid, extreme groundball pitcher who would be a reliable back end starter for us.

Topcat
11-16-2006, 04:42 AM
Reds: And Wayne Krivsky told the Cincinnati Post that his off-season doesn't start until January, when he starts going through the leftovers from the rest of the teams. Qualities he is looking for in a pitcher is: over 30, whispers of elbow/shoulder pain and, as he put it, "knowing how to play the game".

Seriously....I have absolutely no hopes for this off-season. I think even the slightest of anticipation would end up being a huge disappointment.

Realistically who would you throw cash at ? Number 2 who do you honestly feel would show interest in the Red's?

edabbs44
11-16-2006, 06:34 AM
Realistically who would you throw cash at ? Number 2 who do you honestly feel would show interest in the Red's?

So don't do anything?

I would throw cash at Lilly.

Johnny Footstool
11-16-2006, 10:39 AM
As I stated on another thread, another Eric Milton signing wouldn't hurt the Reds as much as another desperate Kearns/FeLo deal. Cash is easier for an organization to replace than talent -- at least it is for an organization like the Reds at this stage.

Like edabbs44 said, I'd throw cash at Lilly.

IslandRed
11-16-2006, 12:18 PM
It just points out the facts of MLB life -- with $10 million annually about to become the benchmark for league-average innings-eaters, only the very richest teams can afford to buy all or most of its rotation on the market. Everyone else is going to have to develop it or make good trades for it. Nothing new here. Krivsky has to turn around that historic organizational blind spot or we're never going to get much of anywhere.

Of course, even if he does it right, the wave won't reach the beach for a few years. In the meantime, buying a guy like Lilly could be money well spent. The other areas of the team that need addressing can be done a lot less expensively.

Kc61
11-16-2006, 12:23 PM
It just points out the facts of MLB life -- with $10 million annually about to become the benchmark for league-average innings-eaters, only the very richest teams can afford to buy all or most of its rotation on the market. Everyone else is going to have to develop it or make good trades for it. Nothing new here. Krivsky has to turn around that historic organizational blind spot or we're never going to get much of anywhere.

Of course, even if he does it right, the wave won't reach the beach for a few years. In the meantime, buying a guy like Lilly could be money well spent. The other areas of the team that need addressing can be done a lot less expensively.


I basically agree. Given the high cost of talent, teams like the Reds have to do the following analysis: if it cost $10-12 million a year for a good player, and I can afford say 3 or 4 of them, who should they be? Answer: mostly pitching.

It's allocation of resources. Pitching is such a precious commodity that it has to be where the money goes. Yes, an occasional power hitter or a star infielder once in awhile. But the team's foundation should be three good starters and a closer.

dunner13
11-16-2006, 12:34 PM
What about Mark Redman? Hes a free agent and his named hasnt been mentioned by anyone. Makes me think we could sweep him up relativly cheap. 2 yr deal for 8 -10 million. Hes a big guy who can throw alot of innings, hes not a stud but I think he would be a solid guy who would benefit by coming back to the NL. The reds arent paying 10 mill for padilla, lilly or any of the other big name free agents so we might as well start looking at guys that are more realistic, and I think Redman at the right price could be a nice addition.
Also I read on one of the rumor mills that the rockies are looking to deal jennings for a reliever. One deal involves the twins Jesse Crain. If we could get jennings for coffey and a few prospects then wayne needs to get this done now.

Patrick Bateman
11-16-2006, 12:46 PM
What about Mark Redman? Hes a free agent and his named hasnt been mentioned by anyone. Makes me think we could sweep him up relativly cheap. 2 yr deal for 8 -10 million. Hes a big guy who can throw alot of innings, hes not a stud but I think he would be a solid guy who would benefit by coming back to the NL. The reds arent paying 10 mill for padilla, lilly or any of the other big name free agents so we might as well start looking at guys that are more realistic, and I think Redman at the right price could be a nice addition.
Also I read on one of the rumor mills that the rockies are looking to deal jennings for a reliever. One deal involves the twins Jesse Crain. If we could get jennings for coffey and a few prospects then wayne needs to get this done now.

He's not really much of an upgrade over some of the slugs we already don't want to use. I would rather take my chances with the likes of Belisle, Claussen, and Ramirez. I bet we could get basically the same production, while also saving 4-5M per year.

If the Reds spend any money, I would rather it all be on one good player, rather than spending 2-3M on a couple of guys that in the end aren't much of upgrades.

osuceltic
11-16-2006, 01:00 PM
He's not really much of an upgrade over some of the slugs we already don't want to use. I would rather take my chances with the likes of Belisle, Claussen, and Ramirez. I bet we could get basically the same production, while also saving 4-5M per year.

If the Reds spend any money, I would rather it all be on one good player, rather than spending 2-3M on a couple of guys that in the end aren't much of upgrades.

I'd be surprised if any of the three you mentioned ever end up as good as Mark Redman has been. And I know Redman isn't great.

He had a lousy season, but he has a pretty respectable track record. He'd be a nice, solid, dependable addition to the back end of the rotation. A guy like that, if he pitches to his career norms, would be a huge upgrade over anyone the Reds currently have to run out there.

It's easy to say "I'd rather take my chances with ... " but the odds on each of those guys are long.

Patrick Bateman
11-16-2006, 01:12 PM
It's easy to say "I'd rather take my chances with ... " but the odds on each of those guys are long.

It's easy to say it because he's just not very good. When Ramirez pitched last season he was better than Redman, and he still may improve. Redman isn't likely to get any better.

Plus Redman is one of those soft tossers with little stikeouts. With our defense he's not a particularly great fit. The other guys mentioned will likely strikeout more guys than Redman will, so they will get a slight advantage just based on that.

Redman wouldn't be such a bad idea if we didn't already have Milton and probably Lohse in the rotation. If we sign Redman, I doubt the Reds will have enough money to find a real top 3 pitcher to go with Harang and Arroyo, and IMO, if we go into the season with the likes of Redman, Lohse/whoever, and Milton in the rotation, we have no hope.

dunner13
11-16-2006, 01:14 PM
Redman is not a stud, and if the price got to high I would forget about him. But if he could come at a reasonable price I think he would help us. He would be a step below arroyo and harang but a step above milton, ramirez and the rest.

Newman4
11-16-2006, 05:27 PM
If the going price is 9 -10 million for mediocre, how much is the price for a good pitcher?

Why not pony up another 5 milion a year and try for something decent?

George Foster
11-16-2006, 09:43 PM
If they give Ted Lilly $10 Million a year, or somewhere in that figure, we'll be screaming Eric Milton before too long.

He's a fly ball pitcher type.....not saying I would mind him here, but NOT at that price, and have him supposed to be the answer to all the rotation problems. Been there and done that already....

Be careful.

If middle-tier pitchers are going to get this kind of money, it seems to me that their might be a market for Milton. Package him and pick up half of his contract, and in return some good minor league prospects. Come on K...see who bites!!!!:thumbup:

Patrick Bateman
11-16-2006, 09:49 PM
in return some good minor league prospects.

We might be able to get someone to eat part of his contract, but I don't know who would give us anything of value for him unless we eat basically the whole thing.