PDA

View Full Version : Are we getting Alex Gonzalez?



Tom Servo
11-16-2006, 09:36 PM
from rotoworld:


Free agent Alex Gonzalez reportedly has a three-year, $15 million offer on the table, likely from either the White Sox or the Reds.

The Blue Jays have also been talking to Gonzalez, but they didn't make the offer. If Gonzalez can get this kind of deal, Julio Lugo at four years and $32 million would look very attractive. Of course, if it's the White Sox that sign Gonzalez, the same teams that are considering Gonzalez right now would likely covet Juan Uribe. Uribe is about as good defensively and has more offensive potential. Should the Reds get Gonzalez, Brandon Phillips would stay at second base. It'd make the decision to re-sign Juan Castro look awfully redundant.

Patpacillosjock
11-16-2006, 09:44 PM
I would LOVE this deal. He will bat 7th or 8th in the order but man what a glove.

Patrick Bateman
11-16-2006, 10:13 PM
It would be better than signing Lugo to 9M per year. I don't think Gonzalez is far behind Lugo in terms of overall value, but that's more of an indicament of Lugo than anything else.

Gonzalez is a pretty bad hitter, but will get a decent boost by moving to GABP which will help. Based on the other FA prices out there, I don't think this would be such a terrible signing. He can help out the pitching staff by having decent defense up the middle, especially since we wouldn't have to move Phillips to SS. Phillips seems like a great fielding 2B, but I'm not sold that he can make the transition to SS and still be an above average fielder. SO it may be beneficial to sacrifice some hitting in the middle infield since we would get a huge boost of fielding at SS and 2B by the move.

If Krivsky did sign Gonzalez, it would make Castro basically useless (even more so than already), since we theoretically could only put him in defensively at 3rd base to get an upgrade fielding wise.

In summary, I think this move would be alright. He would actually provide some good defense at SS. He wouldn't be a great regular, but I could see him in the 15-20 range of starting SS. That's not bad for 5M in the current market.

Shaknb8k
11-16-2006, 10:14 PM
Im all for it....that would be a nice middle infield

flyer85
11-16-2006, 10:15 PM
it would be a defensive SS that CAN actually play defense. Likely signal the end of RA as well. Of course it all could just be a bad rumor.

Joseph
11-16-2006, 10:17 PM
I'm still of the opinion that improving the defense on this team will help the pitching staff significantly. I know we have a lot of FB pitchers, but even if we cut down on 1/4 of the GBs becoming hits it'll be a boon to the staff.

flyer85
11-16-2006, 10:23 PM
seems like the kind of player you sign to a 1 year deal.

Patrick Bateman
11-16-2006, 10:26 PM
seems like the kind of player you sign to a 1 year deal.

Yeah probably, but not in this market. Even 35 year old mediocre lefties get 3 year deals apparently.

harangatang
11-16-2006, 10:33 PM
Which one, the one with a career .292 OBP or the one with a career .302 OBP?

Patrick Bateman
11-16-2006, 10:35 PM
Which one, the one with a career .292 OBP or the one with a career .302 OBP?

The one that can field.

Reds2006champs
11-16-2006, 10:35 PM
Uribe has more power but his average last year was .235 while Gonzalez was .255 and Gold Glove defense ability.

flyer85
11-16-2006, 10:35 PM
Which one, the one with a career .292 OBP or the one with a career .302 OBP?the one that can make the routine play.:p:

harangatang
11-16-2006, 10:36 PM
The one that can field.At least there would be some upside, but I still honestly don't know which one.

Patrick Bateman
11-16-2006, 10:38 PM
At least there would be some upside, but I still honestly don't know which one.

The one who was with Florida for a number of years, and Boston last year.

The other one is on the verge of being out of the league.

harangatang
11-16-2006, 10:43 PM
The one who was with Florida for a number of years, and Boston last year.

The other one is on the verge of being out of the league.Oh OK, so the one with the lower OBP. ;) Thanks. It does look like he has some pop in his bat and considering this FA market, it may be a good deal.

Patrick Bateman
11-16-2006, 10:44 PM
Oh OK, so the one with the lower OBP. ;) Thanks. It does look like he has some pop in his bat and considering this FA market, it may be a good deal.

Yeah, he's basically a .700 OPS type of hitter. His value lies in his strong ability to field, while also being able to hit for some power considering his position.

flyer85
11-16-2006, 10:46 PM
if true it would solve the 8th place hitter problem.

Strike that, Narron might bat him 2nd

Patrick Bateman
11-16-2006, 10:49 PM
if true it would solve the 8th place hitter problem.

Strike that, Narron might bat him 2nd

That's my biggest worry. As an 8th hitter he's not so bad since he can hit for a little power and could knock in some runs and his poor OBP skills wouldn't be shown as much as other areas in the line-up.

marcshoe
11-16-2006, 10:53 PM
I heard one of the people who runs defensive numbers say on XM that he was the best defensive shortstop and one of the best defensive players in the AL, iirc. I can't recall the details. I wouldn't mind this at all, in spite of his offense. If the Reds do it, it'll be a major step toward building up-the-middle defense.

captainmorgan07
11-16-2006, 10:54 PM
sign him now pitching and defense win titles we will have enough offense good glove at short is hard to find keeping phillips at second aint so bad either

redsfanfalcon
11-16-2006, 10:56 PM
Isn't Uribe accused of murder outside of the country? I would think his stock would go down! Might as well sign Ugueth Urbina while we're at it too!

flyer85
11-16-2006, 10:56 PM
2006 fielding http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/dialed_in/discussion/2006_gold_glove_winners_as_i_see_it/

Patrick Bateman
11-16-2006, 10:58 PM
I heard one of the people who runs defensive numbers say on XM that he was the best defensive shortstop and one of the best defensive players in the AL, iirc. I can't recall the details. I wouldn't mind this at all, in spite of his offense. If the Reds do it, it'll be a major step toward building up-the-middle defense.

The only guy that I think is well ahead of Gonzalez is Adam Everett. He can keep pace with basically everyone else IMO.

Joseph
11-16-2006, 11:05 PM
Where is someone to talk me out of thinking this is not a bad signing?

blumj
11-16-2006, 11:06 PM
Sox fans called Gonzalez "Auto-Out", meaning it both ways, but he's not quite as much of an auto-out as Everett, on either side of the ball.

flyer85
11-16-2006, 11:08 PM
Where is someone to talk me out of thinking this is not a bad signing?since it hasn't happened there is no need to ... yet

Spitball
11-16-2006, 11:11 PM
Jack McKeon sure liked Gonzalez in this Boston Globe article from last winter.


Gonzalez is McKeon's Pick
By Gordon Edes | February 5, 2006

Boston.com
Jack McKeon has had Ozzie Smith early in his career, Garry Templeton, Barry Larkin, and Pokey Reese, among others, play shortstop for him.

''Alex González is the best I've ever had," said McKeon, insisting he's not just blowing a cloud of cigar smoke about the free agent the Red Sox just signed last week. ''Definitely the best I've ever had, defensively.

''He's the whole package, man. He and [second baseman] Luis Castillo were together for over four years, and he was the greatest guy I've ever seen on the pivot, just spectacular.

''People say, 'Oh, this guy can't replace [Edgar] Renteria. For my money, he can. Yeah, Edgar might hit 20 points higher, but he ain't going to field with this guy. This guy is special.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/02/05/gonzalez_is_mckeons_pick/

I hope this rumor comes true. Phillips and Gonzalez would certainly strengthen the defense up the middle.

Krusty
11-16-2006, 11:15 PM
If Krivsky is serious about improving the defense, signing Gonzalez to a three year deal is a smart move. Solid defense up the middle is one of the keys to having a championship team. Plus, the Reds don't have to rush prospect Paul Janish.

mth123
11-16-2006, 11:18 PM
if true it would solve the 8th place hitter problem.

Strike that, Narron might bat him 2nd

There are plenty of options to hit 8th on this team. Need some one to hit 5th and 6th.

Patrick Bateman
11-16-2006, 11:22 PM
Plus, the Reds don't have to rush prospect Paul Janish.

If that's the guy we're wating on, we're screwed.

Krusty
11-16-2006, 11:27 PM
If that's the guy we're wating on, we're screwed.

And what is the matter with Janish?

BEST DRAFT PICK PERFORMANCE
Paul Janish, SS, 21: Billings (short-season) – 205 at bats, .263/.406/.346, 11 doubles, 2 HR, 45 BB, 45 K, 7 sb
Drafted in the 5th round this season from Rice, the scouting report read that Janish was the best defensive shortstop in college baseball. His bat, on the other hand, was far from developed. Not only did Janish showcase his above average shortstop actions, he hit better than expected. He has good size at 6’2” 180 pounds, but he’ll need more muscle to hit for power. He has a sweeping-type swing which doesn’t get around quick enough when he’s jammed inside with good fastballs. Nevertheless, his play at shortstop is very good with his great arm, plus range, and soft hands. He may not have the highest ceiling of this year’s draft picks, but he has the most polish.

http://minors.mostvaluablenetwork.com/2004/09/

Patrick Bateman
11-16-2006, 11:29 PM
And what is the matter with Janish?

He can't hit. He's 24, and had a .774 OPS in high A. At that age he needs to be hitting like that in AA, or even AAA.

He may make a decent utility guy if his fielding is as good as adevertised.

flyer85
11-16-2006, 11:30 PM
And what is the matter with Janish?other than the fact he can't hit much. He was way too old to playing Low A this year.

flyer85
11-16-2006, 11:31 PM
He can't hit.and never has except for a good half season in a low A league he was way too old for. I would be surprised if he ever makes to the majors. Although I will admit he had a slight window if he can do well in AA this year.

Patpacillosjock
11-16-2006, 11:34 PM
I know I've posted this before but MOVE DUNN to 1st! Move Griffey to Left! THen find a good bat/glove in RF via free agency

our lineup would be

LF Griffey
CF Freel
RF FA
3b EE
SS Gonzalez
2b Phillips
1b dunn
c ross

i like it..i wish i was a GM

IslandRed
11-16-2006, 11:36 PM
Where is someone to talk me out of thinking this is not a bad signing?

Well, not every person and set of defensive metrics thinks AG is all that with the glove. And the bat (or at least the OBP) is decidedly subpar. But if he's the run-saver with the glove that many think and Krivsky is looking at shortstop as a defense-first position, he'd be the type of player to fit the bill: best defender available that isn't totally useless at the plate.

I'd rather see a deal shorter than three years if it's us that's offering it, though.

Patrick Bateman
11-16-2006, 11:45 PM
And what is the matter with Janish?

BEST DRAFT PICK PERFORMANCE
Paul Janish, SS, 21: Billings (short-season) – 205 at bats, .263/.406/.346, 11 doubles, 2 HR, 45 BB, 45 K, 7 sb
Drafted in the 5th round this season from Rice, the scouting report read that Janish was the best defensive shortstop in college baseball. His bat, on the other hand, was far from developed. Not only did Janish showcase his above average shortstop actions, he hit better than expected. He has good size at 6’2” 180 pounds, but he’ll need more muscle to hit for power. He has a sweeping-type swing which doesn’t get around quick enough when he’s jammed inside with good fastballs. Nevertheless, his play at shortstop is very good with his great arm, plus range, and soft hands. He may not have the highest ceiling of this year’s draft picks, but he has the most polish.

http://minors.mostvaluablenetwork.com/2004/09/

That all sounds nice, but that was from 3 seasons ago. He was never a very good hitter (and that's why he was a 5th round pick), and that has stayed true.

He's 24 and basically hasn't played much above high A. If he's at that level, he better be dominating, rather than just "fitting in".

jmac
11-17-2006, 12:10 AM
There are plenty of options to hit 8th on this team. Need some one to hit 5th and 6th.

bingo.

Superdude
11-17-2006, 12:16 AM
How much is Marcus Giles expected to get? Everything I've found about Gonzalez says he's nothing more than an average defender, and while his bat might get a boost at GABP, I don't think his career .684OPS will help the lineup any.

Even if Giles is too expensive, playing Freel at second and Denorfia in right be would save a bunch of cash and probably be better anyway wouldn't it? I don't understand you Wayne.

Kc61
11-17-2006, 12:33 AM
How much is Marcus Giles expected to get? Everything I've found about Gonzalez says he's nothing more than an average defender, and while his bat might get a boost at GABP, I don't think his career .684OPS will help the lineup any.

Even if Giles is too expensive, playing Freel at second and Denorfia in right be would save a bunch of cash and probably be better anyway wouldn't it? I don't understand you Wayne.

AG at short and Phillips at second is a special defensive combo. Moving Phillips to short and putting Freel at second is far weaker defensively. Krivsky wants good defense, not playing guys out of position to get offense in the lineup.

George Anderson
11-17-2006, 01:06 AM
AG at short and Phillips at second is a special defensive combo. Moving Phillips to short and putting Freel at second is far weaker defensively. Krivsky wants good defense, not playing guys out of position to get offense in the lineup.

Agreed, Plus I dont think krivsky wants to experiment and hope that Phillips can play a steller shortstop.

Patrick Bateman
11-17-2006, 01:11 AM
It would have helped if they tried Phillips at SS last season so that we could figure out what we have rather than potentially dismissing the whole idea altogether.

Slyder
11-17-2006, 01:38 AM
I still think we need to give Guillen a tryout to see if he's healthy.

AGonzalez for 5 mil a year? Eh... thats the market right now.

Bring in Guillen and sit Dunn and Junior down for a long discussion:

Freel RF/CF
Dunn 1b (til he proves to be a middle of the order guy then Phillips here)
Guillen RF/CF (if healthy proves great d and some pop)
Junior LF
Ed E 3b
Phillips 2b
LaRue/Ross C
AGonzalez SS

Ehhh something along those lines could probably be an upgrade over where we finished last year... If Narron doesnt screw it up every couple games.

KronoRed
11-17-2006, 03:07 AM
Which one, the one with a career .292 OBP or the one with a career .302 OBP?

Maybe both, merge em and you have one fine set of numbers

redsmetz
11-17-2006, 08:31 AM
It would have helped if they tried Phillips at SS last season so that we could figure out what we have rather than potentially dismissing the whole idea altogether.

I don't believe they've dismissed the idea altogether, as you put it. I think they've gone into this market looking for which opportunity presented itself. If a decent, well-priced second sacker came, then swing Phillips to Short. If a SS came, then leave Phillips at 2nd. I think that's been an intelligent approach.

Krusty
11-17-2006, 10:46 AM
I think Krivsky is out to improve the defense. The right side of the infield is solid with Hatteberg and Phillips. Gonzalez would be a huge upgrade on the left side. Hopefully (fingers crossed) Encarncion can improve on his throws. If not, you will see Castro playing third in the eight and ninth innings.

How Krivsky improves the outfield defense will be very interesting to watch.

Superdude
11-17-2006, 04:07 PM
I think Krivsky is out to improve the defense.

Sure Gonzalez and Phillips is a little better defensively than Phillips and Freel, but unless Phillips absolutely sucks at shortstop and Gonzalez has a breakout year with the bat, there is no way adding Gonzalez is an upgrade.

Cedric
11-17-2006, 05:12 PM
Sure Gonzalez and Phillips is a little better defensively than Phillips and Freel, but unless Phillips absolutely sucks at shortstop and Gonzalez has a breakout year with the bat, there is no way adding Gonzalez is an upgrade.

I don't see Freel as a 2b, hopefully the Reds don't either.

jimbo
11-17-2006, 05:27 PM
I don't see Freel as a 2b, hopefully the Reds don't either.

I somewhat disagree with you Cedric. I think Freel has shown he can play the position quite well, plus he would be more prone to staying healthier playing 2B as opposed to the outfield. I'm not saying I'm advocating it because I think this team is in need of new blood, but I do believe he could be a very good second baseman if he was given a chance at it full-time.

Cedric
11-17-2006, 05:31 PM
I somewhat disagree with you Cedric. I think Freel has shown he can play the position quite well, plus he would be more prone to staying healthier playing 2B as opposed to the outfield. I'm not saying I'm advocating it because I think this team is in need of new blood, but I do believe he could be a very good second baseman if he was given a chance at it full-time.

I would much rather see Freel at 2b than say Castro at SS and Phillips at 2b.

I would just love to have Griffey out of CF and replace him with Freel.

jimbo
11-17-2006, 05:51 PM
I would much rather see Freel at 2b than say Castro at SS and Phillips at 2b.

I would just love to have Griffey out of CF and replace him with Freel.

I totally agree with your first statement. I don't want Castro anywhere near a starting lineup.

I'm all for finding a replacement for Junior in CF, I just don't like Freel there. I think he plays too wrecklessly for that position. The diving catches are fun to watch, but too many times he's diving when he shouldn't which will lead to serious injuries if he plays there full-time or balls that go to the fence with runners on base. There are certain situations when diving, even though it looks good, isn't sound baseball and I don't think Freel gets that.

Superdude
11-17-2006, 06:39 PM
I don't see Freel as a 2b, hopefully the Reds don't either.

He may not win a gold glove, but Freel can't be that bad. With his bat, Freel would have to suck in record breaking fashion on the defensive end in order to be outperformed by Gonzalez as an overall player. I feel like I'm the minority, but I still don't see how paying Gonzalez 15 million helps the team in anyway.

Raisor
11-17-2006, 07:55 PM
Gonzalez for three years is about two years too long.

Tom Servo
11-17-2006, 08:16 PM
Reds mum on Gonzalez
BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Rumor has the Reds in the running for shortstop Alex Gonzalez. The Boston Globe has reported that the Reds may be one of two teams offering Gonzalez a three-year, $15 million deal.

On Friday, Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky refused to discuss the rumor.

"I'm not going to confirm it or deny or it," Krivsky said.

Have you talked to Gonzalez's agent?

"I've talked to a lot of agents," Krivsky said. "We're not going to talk about who we've talked to and who we haven't."

Gonzalez's agent, Eric Goldschmidt, did not return a call Friday afternoon.

A lot of teams make it public when they meet with free agents. That is not Krivsky's style.

"We won't announce anything until a deal is done and the player's signed and had a physical," Krivsky said.

The talk of the Reds and Gonzalez may be just a matter of people putting two and two together: The Reds need a shortstop and Gonzalez is the best one available on the free agent market.

He hit .255 with nine home runs and 50 RBI last year, but he is a superior fielder.

With Krivsky's goal of improving the defense, making an effort to sign Gonzalez would make sense

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061117/SPT04/311170040

Will M
11-18-2006, 12:26 AM
1. SS is a defense first position. I like ( in theory ) that WK wants defense at SS.

2. if the Reds have Gonzalez ( or similar weak stick ) at SS, Phillips at 2B, Deno in CF and Valentin/Ross at C then we need to have some big bats at 3B,1B,LF & RF.
EE and Dunn are big bats. Hatteberg is not. Griffey at this stage is OK vs rhp and terrible vs lhp. We will need Votto to be ready AND need better production from RF.

3. 3 years at $5,000,000/year? ouch. I would have thought 1 year at $2,000,000. Isn't there a cheaper slick fielding/weak hitting SS available?
The 2007 free agent market is nuts.

- Will

Will M
11-18-2006, 12:52 AM
A new shortstop in Cincinnati?

Free-agent shortstop Alex Gonzalez is believed to be close to signing a three-year contract with the Reds.

Gonzalez's agent, Eric Goldschmidt, said he expects to complete a deal by the start of next week, but would not specify with which club.

The White Sox, a team speculated to be involved with Gonzalez, have not contacted Goldschmidt, according to a major-league source.

The Blue Jays also have shown interest in Gonzalez, but a second source said they would balk at the rumored price — three years, $15 million.

Gonzalez, 28, is one of the game's top defensive shortstops, but his .179 batting average with runners in scoring position last season was the lowest in the majors.

The Red Sox are pursuing free-agent shortstop Julio Lugo, who would be a significant offensive upgrade over Gonzalez.

flyer85
11-18-2006, 01:23 AM
Gonzalez, 28, is one of the game's top defensive shortstops, but his .179 batting average with runners in scoring position last season was the lowest in the majors.... worst at the majors in the most important stat in the game. Well at least he'll make Dunn look good. :p:

Superdude
11-18-2006, 01:25 AM
So it's a pretty sure thing now?

I'm not gonna lie. It's a big risk and I'm still not a huge fan, but I'm starting to see a bit of upside and hope to this deal after my anger has settled. His last two years have been absolute train wrecks, but you can't overlook the fact that the guy put up seasons of 18 and 23 homers in that massive Florida park. Even if he puts up a .300OBP, here's to hoping Gonzalez joins Aurilia, Hatteberg, Randa... and turns a GABP corner to a breakout season and macs 30 homers! :beerme:

Aronchis
11-18-2006, 02:28 AM
Hopefully not, Gonzalez is the type of player you shouldn't be paying multi-year contracts for as he can't hit a lick, he better have a power surge ala Rich lol. If Krivsky does this, further signs of incompetence IMO.

Find these types cheap.

fearofpopvol1
11-18-2006, 02:50 AM
Hopefully not, Gonzalez is the type of player you shouldn't be paying multi-year contracts for as he can't hit a lick, he better have a power surge ala Rich lol. If Krivsky does this, further signs of incompetence IMO.

Find these types cheap.

You can't in the current marketplace. Have you seen other signings? Frank freaking Thomas is getting 9 million a year to be an elderly DH...

VI_RedsFan
11-18-2006, 07:26 AM
You can't in the current marketplace. Have you seen other signings? Frank freaking Thomas is getting 9 million a year to be an elderly DH...

And a 36 year old reliever named Jamie Walker is getting something like 4 million per year over in Baltimore now. There is going to be a lot of overpaying in this offseason's free agency.

I think 3 years 15 million might be a little too much for Alex (I would prefer 3 yrs 12 mill), but I could live with it. He is one of the best defensive SS in the game and he's still fairly young (I think 29). Sure he can't hit much, but you never know, maybe coming to GABP might help him.

Raisor
11-18-2006, 07:58 AM
If you have to go more then one years for Gonzalez you tell his agent "no" and you move on to someone else. Three years/15 Million guarenteed money for him is in-SANE.

The Reds don't HAVE to be insane just because other teams are being insane.

mth123
11-18-2006, 08:18 AM
Hopefully not, Gonzalez is the type of player you shouldn't be paying multi-year contracts for as he can't hit a lick, he better have a power surge ala Rich lol. If Krivsky does this, further signs of incompetence IMO.

Find these types cheap.

I've been saying since August that in this market $15 million for 3 years is cheap for an everyday player. The Reds need to go an extra year or an extra couple million a year to get him away from more attractive options like the White Sox and Blue Jays. We could probably get him for 1 year if we paid $7 or $8 Million maybe 2 with a team option at $6 Million and a couple million buyout. Mark Derosa just signed for 3 years at $13 Million. He's 32, has never had a regular starting spot and until the Texas park effect never hit either. He isn't really an option at SS any more than say Aurilia is. In a market that pays that, 3 years at $15 Million to lure an established everyday guy who is a plus fielder and not a complete failure at bat to a perennial loser seems reasonable. Cost of doing business these days. Maybe the media has the $ inflated. They were for Frank Thomas. I doubt it.

I'd have probably tried the trade route first, but there is the risk that he signs elsewhere and your left with nothing. This will work if the Reds pull out another $8 to $10 million and sign Luis Gonzalez or the like for a year to play 1B. But that won't happen. Teams committed to the Hat with no bat.

This is why trading the good players to free cash won't work in this market right now. The money will be spent on a couple guys like this.

GAC
11-18-2006, 08:21 AM
If you have to go more then one years for Gonzalez you tell his agent "no" and you move on to someone else. Three years/15 Million guarenteed money for him is in-SANE.

The Reds don't HAVE to be insane just because other teams are being insane.

I agree to a point Phil. but who else is available? What is 1 year going to get us when we don't have anyone in the system to replace him?

I'd go 3 years/10 Mil. That won't hurt this team. The guy is one of the best defensive SSs out there right now.

Yeah - he has a sub-700 OPS.

So did Concepcion for 19 years. ;)

GAC
11-18-2006, 08:24 AM
I've been saying since August that in this market $15 million for 3 years is cheap for an everyday player. The Reds need to go an extra year or an extra couple million a year to get him away from more attractive options like the White Sox and Blue Jays. We could probably get him for 1 year if we paid $7 or $8 Million maybe 2 with a team option at $6 Million and a couple million buyout. Mark Derosa just signed for 3 years at $13 Million. He's 32, has never had a regular starting spot and until the Texas park effect never hit either. He isn't really an option at SS any more than say Aurilia is. In a market that pays that, 3 years at $15 Million to lure an established everyday guy who is a plus fielder and not a complete failure at bat to a perrenial loser seems reasonable. Cost of doing business these days. Maybe the media has the $ inflated. They were for Frank Thomas. I doubt it.

2-3 Mil just doesn't get ya much anymore. Thus is the state of MLB. ;)

Now that doesn't mean you throw it around or away needlessly; but I don't think signing an Alex Gonzalez is doing that.

RedLegSuperStar
11-18-2006, 11:09 AM
RotoWorld.com:


Alex Gonzalez is believed to be close to signing a three-year contract with the Reds, FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal reports.

It sounds like Rosenthal is just going off Thursday's Boston Globe report, but with the added knowledge that the White Sox aren't currently in the running for Gonzalez. The Globe reported that Gonzalez had a three-year, $15 million offer on the table, likely from the Reds or the White Sox. If the Reds sign him, they'll have perhaps the best middle-infield defense in the NL. However, it'll be another blow to an offense that GM Wayne Krivsky has taken a lot away from since his July deal with the Nationals.

RedLegSuperStar
11-18-2006, 11:19 AM
which leads me to this.. as fans what combo would we want?

Phillips at SS and Aurilia at 2B

or

Gonzalez at SS and Phillips at 2B

I got to go with a younger Gonzalez over Aurilia even if the offense doesn't follow Alex. If Aurilia won't sign for 2 million then that leads me to believe he will sign for 3-4 million. What's 1-2 million for better defense and slightly lower offensive production.

GAC
11-18-2006, 12:35 PM
which leads me to this.. as fans what combo would we want?

Phillips at SS and Aurilia at 2B

or

Gonzalez at SS and Phillips at 2B

I got to go with a younger Gonzalez over Aurilia even if the offense doesn't follow Alex. If Aurilia won't sign for 2 million then that leads me to believe he will sign for 3-4 million. What's 1-2 million for better defense and slightly lower offensive production.

Gonzalez at SS and BP at 2B. We need to vastly improve the middle defense.

Now go out and get us a groundball pitcher! :lol:

If the Reds do sign him, I'm not bothered by the 3 year deal. The 15 Mil, if it's true, makes me cringe a little bit.

But you also have to look at the market, what's available out there at the SS position, and more importantly.... if not Gonzo, then who? Do we have anyone in the system at all?

And I like keeping BP at 2B.

jimbo
11-18-2006, 12:40 PM
2-3 Mil just doesn't get ya much anymore.

Sean Casey getting $4 mil after the numbers he put up last season says it all.

jmac
11-18-2006, 01:46 PM
which leads me to this.. as fans what combo would we want?

Phillips at SS and Aurilia at 2B

or

Gonzalez at SS and Phillips at 2B

I got to go with a younger Gonzalez over Aurilia even if the offense doesn't follow Alex. If Aurilia won't sign for 2 million then that leads me to believe he will sign for 3-4 million. What's 1-2 million for better defense and slightly lower offensive production.

agreed.
plus maybe alex would have a little GABP boost as well.

Handofdeath
11-18-2006, 02:40 PM
I agree to a point Phil. but who else is available? What is 1 year going to get us when we don't have anyone in the system to replace him?

I'd go 3 years/10 Mil. That won't hurt this team. The guy is one of the best defensive SSs out there right now.

Yeah - he has a sub-700 OPS.

So did Concepcion for 19 years. ;)

I totally agree. Putting together a successful MLB team is not done by treating it as a fantasy team. Successful teams need to have great defense up the middle.

PuffyPig
11-18-2006, 02:46 PM
I think that many don't understand the value of good defense.

What does saving a hit per week (which doesn't seam like much) really mean?

Well, based on 500 AB's, a player who gets an extra hit (a single) per week increases his OPS by about 100 points. basdeball is a game of extreme statistics. Marginal improvements will make a real difference over the season. Having a SS who can actually get to balls will improve our pitching much more than most believe.

Matt700wlw
11-18-2006, 02:48 PM
How many miscues on defense cost this team runs last year?

TOO many.

How many miscues in the infield led to our pitcher blowing a game because instead of turning a double play or having 2 outs and a guy on first, you have guys in scoring position with 1 (or no) outs?

TOO many.

Krusty
11-18-2006, 02:49 PM
Scroll down the article to get to Gonzalez and the Reds:

At last, there may be a market for Manny
Story Tools:
Print Email Blog This Subscribe
Ken Rosenthal / FOXSports.com
Posted: 4 hours ago



For years, the reason the Red Sox couldn't trade left fielder Manny Ramirez was simple — no team wanted to absorb Ramirez's contract.

The bigger problem now is that the Sox likely couldn't replace Ramirez with a worthy right-handed complement to David Ortiz.
Finding a taker?


Manny Ramirez is no longer untradeable, but who wants him? (Stephen Dunn / Getty Images)

The possibilities are increasing rapidly as the prices for free-agent hitters such as Alfonso Soriano and Carlos Lee rise.

The present-day value of Ramirez's contract, due to deferrals, is $17 million per season in 2007 and '08, according to the Boston Herald. The deal also includes an option for '09.

It's short-term heaven, but Ramirez, 34, almost certainly would want a contract extension in exchange for waiving his no-trade clause.

Among the clubs that might be interested:

Cubs: Ramirez would be a perfect fit if the Cubs struck out on Soriano; general manager Jim Spendry — er, Hendry — could sign Julio Lugo or Gary Matthews Jr. to hit leadoff, and a lineup that featured Derrek Lee and both Manny and Aramis Ramirez would be obscene. The Cubs could part with shortstop Cesar Izturis and bullpen arms; and the Sox could reinvest their savings; the Cubs still would need starting pitching.

Rangers: Three years ago, the Rangers tried to acquire Ramirez and left-hander Jon Lester for shortstop Alex Rodriguez. Pitching remains their biggest need, but the team will be desperate for offense if Lee, Matthews and catcher Rod Barajas join infielder Mark DeRosa as departed free agents.

Rockies: How about Ramirez for first baseman Todd Helton? The Rockies would need to balance out the money — Helton is guaranteed $16.6 million per season through 2010 and $19.1 million in '11 with a $4.6 million buyout in '12. Another issue: The Sox would be too left-handed if they acquired Helton and signed free-agent outfielder J.D. Drew to go with Ortiz.

Giants: Manny being Manny is annoying, but a lot more harmless than Barry being Barry. What's more, the departure of Bonds as a free agent would create the need not just for a new left fielder in San Francisco, but also a marquee player. The Giants, though, have little that would appeal to the Red Sox.

Angels: Previous talks concerning Ramirez went nowhere; the Sox wanted financial relief and top prospects in return. The Angels seem more likely to sign a free agent such as Soriano than part with their best young players in a trade. Their biggest outfield need is in center, not left.

Dodgers: Another team loaded with prospects — and another that might get shut out on Soriano and pass on Lee. G.M. Ned Colletti has money to burn thanks to the gift certificate that Drew left by opting out of his contract, but might prefer to invest heavily in a free-agent starter such as left-hander Barry Zito or right-hander Jason Schmidt.

Mariners: Ramirez for first baseman Richie Sexson would be a near-wash financially; Sexson is guaranteed $14 million per season in '07 and '08. The Sox would need to find other offensive pieces somewhere, knowing Sexson strikes out too much to adequately protect Ortiz. Ramirez would be reunited, at least for the moment, with former Indians manager Mike Hargrove.

Mets: They're not nearly as hot on Ramirez as they once were, and their starting rotation is a far greater priority than left field. G.M. Omar Minaya loves Ramirez, but he will need to acquire two top-of-the-rotation starters if left-hander Tom Glavine leaves for the Braves.


A new shortstop in Cincinnati?
Free-agent shortstop Alex Gonzalez is believed to be close to signing a three-year contract with the Reds.

Gonzalez's agent, Eric Goldschmidt, said he expects to complete a deal by the start of next week, but would not specify with which club.

The White Sox, a team speculated to be involved with Gonzalez, have not contacted Goldschmidt, according to a major-league source.

The Blue Jays also have shown interest in Gonzalez, but a second source said they would balk at the rumored price — three years, $15 million.

Gonzalez, 28, is one of the game's top defensive shortstops, but his .179 batting average with runners in scoring position last season was the lowest in the majors.

The Red Sox are pursuing free-agent shortstop Julio Lugo, who would be a significant offensive upgrade over Gonzalez.
Matsuzaka and the price of freedom
In theory, agent Scott Boras could attempt to buy Japanese right-hander Daisuke Matsuzaka's free agency from the Seibu Lions if he failed to sign with the Red Sox within 30 days.

In reality, such a deal would be extremely unlikely.

"I can't see the Japanese ever doing that," Lou Melendez, Major League Baseball's vice-president of international operations, told FOXSports.com.

"It would establish such a precedent. You'd have all their stars asking to do it. I don't think their league would allow it to happen."

For Boras, the idea behind such a ploy would be to create leverage in his talks with the Red Sox; he seemingly is in a vulnerable position due to his ability to negotiate with only one club.

Matsuzaka, 26, will return to Seibu if he fails to sign with the Red Sox, costing Seibu its $51.1 million posting fee. He is not eligible for free agency in Japan until May 2008.

Boras could try to persuade Seibu to grant Matsuzaka immediate free agency by paying the club say, $30 million — a fraction of what the pitcher might command as a major-league free agent.

Seibu might derive a short-term benefit, but the long-term implications for Japanese baseball would be calamitous.

"Every good player in Japan, young and old, would immediately seek to buy their free agency, effectively ruining Japanese baseball," one major-league G.M. said.


This ‘n' that

Schmidt, on the verge of his biggest payday, changed his representation just before the general managers' meetings, leaving Michael Moye and Scott Sanderson to return to Randy and Alan Hendricks; the pitcher had switched to Moye and Sanderson last March. The Hendricks brothers now control three of the top pitchers on the free-agent market – Schmidt, right-hander Roger Clemens and left-hander Andy Pettitte . . .

The Rockies likely will wait until the free-agent market settles before getting serious about trading right-hander Jason Jennings. The Astros and Cubs both could be fits for Jennings, who will earn $5.5 million next season before becoming a free agent. The Rockies would like to add a young starter and veteran reliever in return.

Former Astros pitching coach Jim Hickey suddenly is a hot commodity. He could end up as the Devil Rays' pitching coach if Mike Butcher leaves to replace Bud Black with the Angels. Or, he could become the Nationals' bullpen coach under his good friend, Nats manager Manny Acta.

Randy St. Claire will be back as the Nationals' pitching coach next season. Butcher's ties to the Angels, meanwhile, are strong; he pitched for them and worked six years a pitching coach in their minor-league system before joining the Devil Rays last season.

TOP STORIES
• Fearless Predictions
• Schembechler's legend casts shadow | VIDEO
• Shaq to have knee surgery, miss 4-6 weeks | Heat lose
• Done deal: Big Hurt to Blue Jays for $18M | Bonds to A's?
• Report: Team won't let Beckham go to Cruise wedding
• Kobe scores 17,000th career point in win | VIDEO
• Woods, Harrington tied for lead after third round in Japan
• Federer beats Nadal, meets Blake in Masters final
• Kahne wins Cup pole; Johnson qualifies 15th | Lineup

More News | Subscribe