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View Full Version : RedsZone Hall of Fame, Version 2006-07 - Second Basemen



Cyclone792
11-17-2006, 12:03 AM
RedsZone Hall of Fame First Basemen Poll (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52373) is open until November 19th, 2006.

Vote for all SECOND BASEMEN you believe should be in the RedsZone Hall of Fame. This is a multiple-choice poll so you're allowed to vote for more than one player.

For reference purposes: Major League Baseball Hall of Fame Second Basemen (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/pos&2B.htm)

Previously Elected Second Basemen: Rod Carew, Eddie Collins, Charlie Gehringer, Rogers Hornsby, Nap Lajoie, Bid McPhee, Joe Morgan, and Jackie Robinson

Dropped From Ballot: Bobby Avila, Tom Daly, Lonnie Frey, Jim Gilliam, Dave Lopes, Dick McAuliffe, Gil McDougald, Danny Murphy, Fred Pfeffer, Del Pratt, Pete Runnels, Steve Sax, and Frank White

Players from earlier eras may be lesser known among some RedsZone voters, but in the efforts of encouraging everybody to vote while also maintaining a somewhat level playing field for all eligible candidates, we've instituted a tier system for support needed to gain election ...

Negro Leaguers: Need 3/8 support
19th century (i.e. pre 1903): Need 2/5 support
Early Modern (roughly 1903-1945): Need 1/2 support
Integration (roughly 1945-1970): Need 5/8 support
Post Integration (roughly 1970-present): Need 2/3 support

The charts below are win shares data for all candidates. In order from left to right, the columns are career win shares, five-year peak win shares, win shares per 162 games, win shares during a player's top season and the predominant era each player played in (for purposes of the tier voting system). Happy voting!


Player Career WS Peak WS WS per 162 Top Season Era
Newt Allen --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Cupid Childs 238 127 26.48 32 19th Century
Bobby Doerr* 281 127 22.61 27 Early Modern to WWII
Bingo DeMoss --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Larry Doyle 289 130 26.51 33 Early Modern to WWII
Johnny Evers 268 117 24.34 28 Early Modern to WWII
Nellie Fox 304 128 20.81 32 Integration
Frankie Frisch 366 135 25.66 34 Early Modern to WWII
Kid Gleason** 294 140 24.23 45 19th Century
Joe Gordon* 242 134 21.07 31 Early Modern to WWII
Bobby Grich 329 143 26.54 32 Post Integration
Billy Herman* 298 135 25.12 32 Early Modern to WWII
Sammy Hughes --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------

* Missed playing time due to WWII
** Accumulated 51 percent of his win shares as a pitcher




Player Career WS Peak WS WS per 162 Top Season Era
Miller Huggins 222 104 22.68 27 Early Modern to WWII
Tony Lazzeri 252 115 23.46 30 Early Modern to WWII
Bill Mazeroski 219 92 16.40 23 Integration
Bill Monroe --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Buddy Myer 258 115 21.73 33 Early Modern to WWII
Willie Randolph 312 114 22.95 31 Post Integration
Hardy Richardson 230 111 27.99 32 19th Century
Ryne Sandberg 346 154 25.90 38 Post Integration
George Scales --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Red Schoendienst 262 108 19.15 27 Integration
Eddie Stanky 191 113 24.58 30 Integration
Lou Whitaker 351 116 23.79 29 Post Integration
Jimmy Williams 217 110 24.14 32 Early Modern to WWII

11BarryLarkin11
11-17-2006, 12:28 AM
Willie Randolph is still on the ballot, but you have him listed as being dropped. Is he supposed to be on the ballot?

Cyclone792
11-17-2006, 12:36 AM
Yep, he's supposed to be on the ballot, and I just fixed it. Thanks for catching that. :)

RedsBaron
11-17-2006, 05:19 AM
I voted for Frisch and Sandberg. There are a lot of others on the ballot that I regard as borderline guys who arguably should make it, but those two were my only "no-doubters."

M2
11-17-2006, 09:42 AM
Grich is one of the most underrated players in history.

As for Frisch, he was at the center of two National League dynasties. You can make a pretty good argument that he was Golden Age baseball in the National League.

Rojo
11-17-2006, 05:07 PM
Somebody should Tinker with the poll to give Evers a Chance.

chicoruiz
11-17-2006, 07:08 PM
Grich is one of the most underrated players in history.

Very true, but to me Grich seems to be crossing over into the Joe Rudi paradox...he's famous for being underrated (at least in the baseball research community).

I voted for Sandberg, Frisch, and two sentimental favorites: Schoendienst and Buddy Myer.

Rojo
11-17-2006, 07:30 PM
I voted for Sandberg, Frisch, and two sentimental favorites: Schoendienst and Buddy Myer.

So you're the other one who voted for Myer. I'd think On-Base Buddy would get more love from this group.

Big Klu
11-22-2006, 09:51 PM
I voted for:

Childs, Doerr, Fox, Frisch, Gordon, Grich, Herman, Sandberg, and Whitaker.


When you look at it, several of these players are virtually identical to their contemporaries. For example, Ryne Sandberg, Bobby Grich, and Lou Whitaker put up very similar numbers. Likewise, Frankie Frisch and Billy Herman were similar, as were Joe Gordon and Bobby Doerr. It's hard to vote for one and not the other(s).

Cyclone792
11-27-2006, 08:11 PM
Quick note ... this poll closes in three days so if you haven't voted, please do so!

My ballot ...

Bingo DeMoss
Larry Doyle
Frankie Frisch
Bobby Grich
Billy Herman
Bill Mazeroski
Ryne Sandberg
Lou Whitaker

DeMoss is the only Negro Leaguer that I voted for. Second base seems to be a relatively weak position historically for the Negro Leagues, though I believe Martin DiHigo (who I'll list as an outfielder) spent a part of his career playing second base.

Big Klu is definitely right that some of these guys are very similar to each other, and if you vote for one, it makes it tough not to vote for the other (and vice versa by not voting for one). I see Nellie Fox, Bobby Doerr, and Joe Gordon all as very similar players, and I felt that I was either going to vote for all three of them or none of them. In the end, I decided not to vote for any of them, though I did vote for Larry Doyle who is also similar so I could just have easily voted for the entire trio of Fox, Doerr, and Gordon.

FWIW, IMO Ryne Sandberg and Frankie Frisch are the two best second basemen on this ballot, and as of now they're looking like they're going to be elected.

Reds Nd2
11-27-2006, 08:27 PM
...he's famous for being underrated (at least in the baseball research community).

There was the time he tried to choke Earl Weaver.

Cyclone792
12-05-2006, 08:28 PM
This ballot is closed, and two more second basemen have been elected this season. Ryne Sandberg sails in with strong support, receiving 81.82 percent of the vote, and Frankie Frisch also gained considerable support with 66.67 percent of the vote to gain election.

This brings the total number of second basemen elected to the RedsZone Hall of Fame to 10:


Second Basemen (10)

Rod Carew
Eddie Collins
Frankie Frisch
Charlie Gehringer
Rogers Hornsby
Nap Lajoie
Bid McPhee
Joe Morgan
Jackie Robinson
Ryne Sandberg

The Third Basemen Ballot (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52869) is currently open and will be open for approximately another week. If you haven't voted for the hot corner RZ HOFers yet, please do so!