PDA

View Full Version : Is Hopper a better option than Deno?



fearofpopvol1
11-17-2006, 03:40 PM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061116&content_id=1741985&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Winter ball proving a fiesta for Hopper
As AFL season winds down, other leagues play on
By Ryan McConnell / Special to MLB.com

Wherever Norris Hopper goes, he hits.

The 27-year-old outfielder proved his prowess at the plate last year in Triple-A Louisville, where he led the International League in hitting by batting .347, the highest mark in the team's history. From there, he took on Major League pitching in September and proceeded to collect 14 hits in 39 at-bats, a .359 batting average.

Now he's playing in the Mexican Winter League and is continuing to hit 'em where they aren't. Through his first nine games, Hopper is batting .405 and has displayed heretofore unseen power, collecting a home run, two triples and two doubles to go with his 12 singles in 42 at-bats. The production could give him the inside track on the Reds' fourth outfielder spot in 2007.

Here's how other Reds prospects fared in the various fall and winter leagues from Nov. 9-15:


Arizona Fall League
2B Drew Anderson -- Anderson went 6-for-26 in six games as his batting average dipped to .266. He does not have a home run and has driven in three runs in 64 at-bats.
OF Javon Moran -- Moran enjoyed the best week of his AFL season, going 5-for-13 with three RBIs and two stolen bases in five games. He's hitting .224 and has driven in 10 runs in 58 at-bats.

OF Cody Strait -- Strait went 3-for-17 with five strikeouts without a home run or RBI in four games. After a hot start, Strait is hitting .264 with one home run and 12 RBIs in 106 at-bats. He has been a terror on the basepaths, stealing 12 bases en route to scoring 19 runs.

P Jonathan Coutlangus -- Coutlangus appeared in three games, giving up two runs on three hits and two walks in 2 2/3 innings. He's 1-0 with a 2.97 ERA in 10 innings.

P Phil Dumatrait -- Dumatrait was so-so in his lone start this week, allowing three runs on five hits and three walks while striking out two in four innings. He's 1-0 with a 5.89 ERA in 18 1/3 innings and has struggled with his control, walking 11.

P Calvin Medlock -- The 24-year-old tossed a scoreless inning in his lone appearance, surrendering one hit without issuing a walk and fanning one. Medlock is 0-1 with a 5.06 ERA in 10 2/3 frames, but has struck out 11 and walked only one.

P Tyler Pelland -- Pelland started two games and allowed three runs -- two earned -- on seven hits and five walks while striking out five in nine innings. The 23-year-old is 0-1 with a 4.95 ERA over 20 innings.


Venezuelan Winter League
2B William Bergolla -- Despite dropping below .400, Bergolla stayed hot, going 7-for-21 with a home run and two RBIs in five games. He's hitting .388 through 103 at-bats.
SS Javier Colina -- The 27-year-old went 4-for-16 in four games to raise his batting average to .237. Colina blasted his second home run of the season Nov. 12.

IF Anderson Machado -- Machado walked once and scored a run without registering an official at-bat in two games. He's 2-for-8 with an RBI in eight games.

SS Ray Olmedo -- After going hitless in his first nine at-bats of the week, Olmedo went 5-for-9 with two triples and five RBIs. The 25-year-old shortstop is hitting .313 with two home runs and 13 RBIs through 80 at-bats.

RHP Carlos Bohorquez -- Bohorquez appeared in two games and allowed one walk without giving up a hit and fanning three in three innings. He has a 0.73 ERA through 12 1/3 frames and is holding opposing batters to a .132 batting average.

LHP Jan Granado -- The 24-year-old went five innings and gave up four runs on three walks and nine hits while striking out two in his lone start. Granado is 1-1 with a 6.75 ERA in 21 1/3 innings.

RHP Ruben Medina -- Medina appeared in two games and tossed 3 1/3 scoreless frames, allowing three hits while walking two and fanning two. He's 1-0 with a 2.84 ERA through 6 1/3 innings.


Mexican Winter League
RHP Tom Shearn -- The 29-year-old yielded two runs on six hits and three walks over six innings in his only start. Shearn is 3-1 with 3.13 ERA in 37 1/3 frames and has fanned 34 while walking 13.

Dominican Winter League
OF Chris Denorfia -- Denorfia is hitting .237 with 10 RBIs in 76 at-bats.
SS Jerry Gil -- Gil has one hit and one RBI in 14 at-bats.

1B Joey Votto -- Votto is hitting .275 with one home run and nine RBIs in 51 at-bats.

RHP Edward Valdez -- Valdez is 3-2 with a 3.27 ERA in 11 innings.

Ryan McConnell is a contributor to MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

lollipopcurve
11-17-2006, 03:52 PM
I really liked what I saw from Hopper. He hit a homer in Cincy, too, so maybe he's developing a little heretofore unseen pop. It was apparent he has a superb, short contact stroke, and he's got good wheels. I was saying last September that Hopper could be Deno's equal, or better, so I think this is a good question. I'd have no problem if the Reds traded Denorfia -- I don't see him as a real good option for full-time duty at this point, only passable. Though I'd like to be proven wrong, of course.

M2
11-17-2006, 03:59 PM
I root for Norris Hopper, partially because I love his name, but what is it that anyone expects him to do better than Deno? Outside of steal a few more bases, I'm drawing a blank. Hitting for average, getting on base, hitting for power, fielding range, throwing - I'd give all of those to Denorfia.

For me, he's right out of the Brady Clark mold, though slightly younger than when Clark came along. I'll put it this way, I'd be mighty impressed if the Reds came up with a CF option better than Deno.

lollipopcurve
11-17-2006, 04:16 PM
I root for Norris Hopper, partially because I love his name, but what is it that anyone expects him to do better than Deno? Outside of steal a few more bases, I'm drawing a blank. Hitting for average, getting on base, hitting for power, fielding range, throwing - I'd give all of those to Denorfia.

I know all signs point to Deno being a better player. I acknowledge my point of view here is idiosyncratic. I didn't expect it. I think Hopper will hit for a higher average. I thought Hopper showed good pitch recognition, while Deno's was solid, but not standout. So, I think ultimately Norris will have a higher OBP. I liked Hopper's speed a little better than Deno's. Edge to Deno in outfield play, probably, based mostly on a superior arm. Power? Not sure. I know the minor league #s greatly favor Deno, but I'm wondering if he was feasting on 87 mph melons. Hopper is a stocky kid, and I could see him lashing more EBHs than expected. Again, I realize I have no legs to stand on here, based on the statistical record. I'm going on what I saw last year -- mighty pleasantly surprised by Hopper, a bit disappointed by Deno. Still, because the record is what it is, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong, and I wouldn't mind it. I'd love it if Deno provided a solid solution in CF. I don't think Hopper can play there regularly -- his arm looks short.

pedro
11-17-2006, 04:18 PM
Not IMO.

joshnky
11-17-2006, 04:33 PM
I have a feeling that what people like about Hopper is the same thing people liked about Deno this time last year. He is a relative unknown and hasn't had the opportunity to disprove his "potential." Deno got a few more chances this year and the expectations came back down to earth. Until Hopper gets a chance and does the same we're going to see threads like this.

M2
11-17-2006, 04:33 PM
lollipop, two things have impressed with Deno -- his bat speed and the break he gets on the ball in the OF. That's why I don't worry about him feasting on 87 MPH heaters and the like. He's got the bat speed to catch up to a quality heater, not to mention that he generates pretty much all of his power from that bat speed as well.

I don't think Deno's going to be a superstar or anything, but I do think he's a solid ballplayer and that the Reds could use a guy like that.

oneupper
11-17-2006, 05:29 PM
FWIW, the Dominican League is FAR superior to the Mexican Winter League.

It plays like a AAAA, particularly towards December and January with the local major leaguers (think Tejada and the like) reporting late in the season.
No..Pujols doesn't play winter ball.

RedsManRick
11-17-2006, 06:22 PM
Deno, 26:
Minor Leagues: 2416 AB, .295/.375/.447, 89/35 SB (72%)
Major Leagues: 144 AB, .278/.358/.382, 2/1 SB

Hopper, 27:
Minor Leagues: 4263 AB, .291/.347/.342, 239/79 SB (75%)
Major Leagues: 39 AB, .359/.435/.462

I see that Deno is younger, better defensively, walks more, and hits for more power. Hmmm... I'll take their 1000's of minor league at bats over their current performances in the winter leagues and a handful of major league at bats. Given 600 PA, Norris is probably good for 20 SB or so compared to Deno's 10. I'll stick with Deno myself.

PuffyPig
11-17-2006, 06:37 PM
Deno could likely be a passable regular CF in the majors. Good fielder, good speed, will get on base a bit with some power. Not a star, but a cheap regular.

I'm not sure that Hopper could be much better than a passable PH in the majors.

mth123
11-17-2006, 09:44 PM
I root for Norris Hopper, partially because I love his name, but what is it that anyone expects him to do better than Deno? Outside of steal a few more bases, I'm drawing a blank. Hitting for average, getting on base, hitting for power, fielding range, throwing - I'd give all of those to Denorfia.

For me, he's right out of the Brady Clark mold, though slightly younger than when Clark came along. I'll put it this way, I'd be mighty impressed if the Reds came up with a CF option better than Deno.

The smart play is to keep Deno and Hopper and trade Freel for something really solid. Proven Lead-off skills with CF ability and some versatility thrown in - at 1.75 Million in 2007 he would be an attractive option in Fla, both sides of Chi, and SF to name a few places. Guys like Olson, Correia, Munter, Wuertz, Marmol or maybe even a high dollar guy like Freddy Garcia seem to make sense in a deal centering on Freel.

flyer85
11-17-2006, 10:09 PM
no

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
11-18-2006, 12:12 AM
no

yes

MartyFan
11-18-2006, 12:16 AM
I really liked what I saw from Hopper. He hit a homer in Cincy, too, so maybe he's developing a little heretofore unseen pop. It was apparent he has a superb, short contact stroke, and he's got good wheels. I was saying last September that Hopper could be Deno's equal, or better, so I think this is a good question. I'd have no problem if the Reds traded Denorfia -- I don't see him as a real good option for full-time duty at this point, only passable. Though I'd like to be proven wrong, of course.

I liked Hopper too if for his name only ;)

Also heard that Deno may be a interesting piece for the D-Rays...I forget where I read that. Here or FoxSports one of the two.

Slyder
11-18-2006, 01:42 AM
yes

maybe

Aronchis
11-18-2006, 02:24 AM
Not a chance, Hopper may not even be in baseball in 2 years.

Ron Madden
11-18-2006, 02:43 AM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061116&content_id=1741985&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Winter ball proving a fiesta for Hopper
As AFL season winds down, other leagues play on
By Ryan McConnell / Special to MLB.com

Wherever Norris Hopper goes, he hits.

The 27-year-old outfielder proved his prowess at the plate last year in Triple-A Louisville, where he led the International League in hitting by batting .347, the highest mark in the team's history. From there, he took on Major League pitching in September and proceeded to collect 14 hits in 39 at-bats, a .359 batting average.

Now he's playing in the Mexican Winter League and is continuing to hit 'em where they aren't. Through his first nine games, Hopper is batting .405 and has displayed heretofore unseen power, collecting a home run, two triples and two doubles to go with his 12 singles in 42 at-bats. The production could give him the inside track on the Reds' fourth outfielder spot in 2007.

Here's how other Reds prospects fared in the various fall and winter leagues from Nov. 9-15:


Arizona Fall League
2B Drew Anderson -- Anderson went 6-for-26 in six games as his batting average dipped to .266. He does not have a home run and has driven in three runs in 64 at-bats.
OF Javon Moran -- Moran enjoyed the best week of his AFL season, going 5-for-13 with three RBIs and two stolen bases in five games. He's hitting .224 and has driven in 10 runs in 58 at-bats.

OF Cody Strait -- Strait went 3-for-17 with five strikeouts without a home run or RBI in four games. After a hot start, Strait is hitting .264 with one home run and 12 RBIs in 106 at-bats. He has been a terror on the basepaths, stealing 12 bases en route to scoring 19 runs.

P Jonathan Coutlangus -- Coutlangus appeared in three games, giving up two runs on three hits and two walks in 2 2/3 innings. He's 1-0 with a 2.97 ERA in 10 innings.

P Phil Dumatrait -- Dumatrait was so-so in his lone start this week, allowing three runs on five hits and three walks while striking out two in four innings. He's 1-0 with a 5.89 ERA in 18 1/3 innings and has struggled with his control, walking 11.

P Calvin Medlock -- The 24-year-old tossed a scoreless inning in his lone appearance, surrendering one hit without issuing a walk and fanning one. Medlock is 0-1 with a 5.06 ERA in 10 2/3 frames, but has struck out 11 and walked only one.

P Tyler Pelland -- Pelland started two games and allowed three runs -- two earned -- on seven hits and five walks while striking out five in nine innings. The 23-year-old is 0-1 with a 4.95 ERA over 20 innings.


Venezuelan Winter League
2B William Bergolla -- Despite dropping below .400, Bergolla stayed hot, going 7-for-21 with a home run and two RBIs in five games. He's hitting .388 through 103 at-bats.
SS Javier Colina -- The 27-year-old went 4-for-16 in four games to raise his batting average to .237. Colina blasted his second home run of the season Nov. 12.

IF Anderson Machado -- Machado walked once and scored a run without registering an official at-bat in two games. He's 2-for-8 with an RBI in eight games.

SS Ray Olmedo -- After going hitless in his first nine at-bats of the week, Olmedo went 5-for-9 with two triples and five RBIs. The 25-year-old shortstop is hitting .313 with two home runs and 13 RBIs through 80 at-bats.

RHP Carlos Bohorquez -- Bohorquez appeared in two games and allowed one walk without giving up a hit and fanning three in three innings. He has a 0.73 ERA through 12 1/3 frames and is holding opposing batters to a .132 batting average.

LHP Jan Granado -- The 24-year-old went five innings and gave up four runs on three walks and nine hits while striking out two in his lone start. Granado is 1-1 with a 6.75 ERA in 21 1/3 innings.

RHP Ruben Medina -- Medina appeared in two games and tossed 3 1/3 scoreless frames, allowing three hits while walking two and fanning two. He's 1-0 with a 2.84 ERA through 6 1/3 innings.


Mexican Winter League
RHP Tom Shearn -- The 29-year-old yielded two runs on six hits and three walks over six innings in his only start. Shearn is 3-1 with 3.13 ERA in 37 1/3 frames and has fanned 34 while walking 13.

Dominican Winter League
OF Chris Denorfia -- Denorfia is hitting .237 with 10 RBIs in 76 at-bats.
SS Jerry Gil -- Gil has one hit and one RBI in 14 at-bats.

1B Joey Votto -- Votto is hitting .275 with one home run and nine RBIs in 51 at-bats.

RHP Edward Valdez -- Valdez is 3-2 with a 3.27 ERA in 11 innings.

Ryan McConnell is a contributor to MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

Good God!:bang:

Ron Madden
11-18-2006, 02:57 AM
I really liked what I saw from Hopper. He hit a homer in Cincy, too, so maybe he's developing a little heretofore unseen pop. It was apparent he has a superb, short contact stroke, and he's got good wheels. I was saying last September that Hopper could be Deno's equal, or better, so I think this is a good question. I'd have no problem if the Reds traded Denorfia -- I don't see him as a real good option for full-time duty at this point, only passable. Though I'd like to be proven wrong, of course.

I'll see your Hopper, and bet all my chips that Denorfia has the better career.

gilpdawg
11-18-2006, 03:02 AM
It's possible that Hopper may be a late bloomer, but IMO, NEITHER of them are big league material. I think they are both AAAA players. Kudos to both of them, because 95% of pro baseball players don't get to their level, but I think that's their ceiling. Hope I'm wrong, because I like both of them, but I just don't think the talent is there. Deno is a great defensive OF though. Too bad he has not shown anything with the bat.

Ron Madden
11-18-2006, 03:10 AM
Deno or Hopper? Hopper or Deno?

Only Wayne and Jerry know for sure.

If that aint enough to scare the hell outta ya

Ya aint afraid of nothin. :evil: