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RFS62
11-20-2006, 02:06 PM
XM just announced Ryan Howard named NL MVP

savafan
11-20-2006, 02:07 PM
Surprised that Albert Pujols didn't win

Highlifeman21
11-20-2006, 02:09 PM
As am I.

Pujols had way more Win Shares than Howard.

I guess all the voters got caught up in the HR and RBI glare.

NJReds
11-20-2006, 02:18 PM
Albert ran a close second. I don't have a problem with it. There were a lot of good NL candidates - Soriano and Berkman had great years, too.

RedsManRick
11-20-2006, 02:19 PM
Yup. Just like the Cy Young is about ERA and Wins, the MVP is about HR and RBI. The only times you see those two stats somewhat ignored is when the top guys are on horrible teams or there's nobody who is clearly exceptional (like when Barry beat out Bichette, Maddux, and Piazza).

edabbs44
11-20-2006, 02:20 PM
Both were worthy candidates. Howard carried that team after their so-called best player was traded, along with one of their starters.

M2
11-20-2006, 02:22 PM
Carlos Beltran should have won it. For all the talk from the press that baseball is more than HRs and RBIs, when they have the chance to actually recognize a complete ballplayer over a power hitter they usually fail to do it. Barry Larkin winning the 1995 MVP, and deservedly so, is remarkable for how out of character it was for the BBWAA.

dabvu2498
11-20-2006, 02:25 PM
Carlos Beltran should have won it.

Agreed, but I'm not surprised about Howard.

RedsBaron
11-20-2006, 02:34 PM
2006 NL Win Shares:
Pujols-39
Beltran-38
Cabrera-34
Berkman-34
Wright-32
Howard-31
Soriano-30

If the choice is otherwise close, I give an edge to the player who played on a pennant winner, just because I believe there should be some premium given to finishing first. Howard finished sixth in Win Shares, played on a non-pennant winner, and did not have statistics superior to guys such as Pujols or Beltran, who did play on divisional champions.
Pujols's one Win Share advantage over Beltran is insignificant, and they both lead their teams to a division crown, so I wouldn't be upset if either of them had won the MVP. I would have voted for Pujols. The writers blew it, yet again.
I know that Howard has a great season, but Pujols lead him in OPS, .431-.425, SPCT, .671-.659, OPS, 1.102-1.084, and adjusted OPS, 180-170. Pujols's lead isn't huge in those categories, but Pujols did lead in each, and his team won a division.

edabbs44
11-20-2006, 02:51 PM
3 reasons which may be part of the reason why he was voted:

1) HGH "smoke" during the year for Pujols
2) St Louis playing in the vicinity of .500 ball w/o Pujols during his DL stint
3) The fact that there were no less than 3 players on the Mets who were the "favorites" for MVP at some point during the season: Beltran, Wright and Reyes. To me, when you have that many candidates, it's tough to get MVP.

Johnny Footstool
11-20-2006, 03:16 PM
In addition to being a monster at the plate, Beltran played spectacular defense at a key defensive position. The only knock against him was that he had Wright, Reyes, and Delgado to "pick up the slack," whereas Pujols only had Rolen to help him.

Come to think of it, Howard had Chase Utley, Pat Burrell, and 2/3 of a season of Bobby Abreu to pick up the slack for him -- much more help than Pujols had.

NJReds
11-20-2006, 03:25 PM
Here's the final vote tally. Bronson got a vote!

-----------------------------
Ryan Howard (388)
Albert Pujols (347)
Lance Berkman (230)
Carlos Beltran (211)
Miguel Cabrera (170)
Alfonso Soriano (106)
Jose Reyes (98)
Chase Utley (98)
David Wright (70)
Trevor Hoffman (46)
Andruw Jones (29)
Carlos Delgado (23)
Nomar Garciaparra (18)
Rafael Furcal (11)
Garrett Atkins (10)
Matt Holliday (10)
Aramis Ramirez (5)
Freddy Sanchez (5)
Chris Carpenter (4)
Chipper Jones (3)
Mike Cameron (2)
Jimmy Rollins (2)
Bronson Arroyo (1)
Jason Bay (1)

edabbs44
11-20-2006, 03:55 PM
In addition to being a monster at the plate, Beltran played spectacular defense at a key defensive position. The only knock against him was that he had Wright, Reyes, and Delgado to "pick up the slack," whereas Pujols only had Rolen to help him.

Come to think of it, Howard had Chase Utley, Pat Burrell, and 2/3 of a season of Bobby Abreu to pick up the slack for him -- much more help than Pujols had.

Burrell?

Look at Howard's 2nd half. .355/.509/.751

Johnny Footstool
11-20-2006, 04:06 PM
Burrell?

Look at Howard's 2nd half. .355/.509/.751

Then give him half an MVP award. Pujols was better over the full season. IMO, so was Beltran.

And yes, Burrell, the guy with the .890 OPS.

NJReds
11-20-2006, 04:08 PM
On the flip side, Howard struck out 180+ times, Pujols only 50. So I guess strikeouts don't matter after all.

edabbs44
11-20-2006, 04:22 PM
On the flip side, Howard struck out 180+ times, Pujols only 50. So I guess strikeouts don't matter after all.

Nope...on this board, strikeouts are great for some people b/c they aren't double plays.:)

Hey, I said both were worthy from the start, but how can anyone discount what Howard accomplished this season?

edabbs44
11-20-2006, 04:23 PM
Then give him half an MVP award. Pujols was better over the full season. IMO, so was Beltran.

And yes, Burrell, the guy with the .890 OPS.

If Burrell is in the argument as help for Howard, then Rolen is there for Pu as well. And what is the Philly equivalent for Carpenter?:)

Johnny Footstool
11-20-2006, 04:58 PM
If Burrell is in the argument as help for Howard, then Rolen is there for Pu as well. And what is the Philly equivalent for Carpenter?:)

I mentioned Rolen as help for Pujols. The only help for Pujols.

Highlifeman21
11-20-2006, 05:50 PM
Both were worthy candidates. Howard carried that team after their so-called best player was traded, along with one of their starters.


You can't be serious that before this year, or even during this year that anyone not named Bobby Abreu was the best player.

I'd even go on record saying Chase Utley is a better all-around player than Ryan Howard on the current Phils roster.

But seriously, last year and even before Abreu was traded, he was the Phils best player.

Now, it's the Chase and Ryan show.

MrCinatit
11-20-2006, 06:31 PM
So Bronson gets a vote as an MVP, but is not worthy of any mention as a Cy Young candidate. Gotcha.

TeamSelig
11-20-2006, 06:52 PM
lol

Is Bronsons mom on the voting committee?

edabbs44
11-20-2006, 09:15 PM
You can't be serious that before this year, or even during this year that anyone not named Bobby Abreu was the best player.

I'd even go on record saying Chase Utley is a better all-around player than Ryan Howard on the current Phils roster.

But seriously, last year and even before Abreu was traded, he was the Phils best player.

Now, it's the Chase and Ryan show.

So called b/c he wasn't their best player this year. Agreed that he was prior to this year, but it is amazing how some people's power mysteriously disappeared after they started testing. :D