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OnBaseMachine
11-24-2006, 01:38 PM
Astros reportedly reel in Lee
Veteran slugger to ink six-year deal with Houston
By Jim Molony / MLB.com

HOUSTON -- Free-agent slugger Carlos Lee has agreed to terms on a six-year contract with the Houston Astros, according to a Houston television station.

KRIV-TV, citing Major League Baseball sources, reported Friday morning that the outfielder had agreed to a six-year contract worth an unspecified amount of money and would be flying to Houston from Panama on Friday evening to sign the contract.

Houston general manager Tim Purpura was not immediately available for comment.

Lee, who was paid $8 million in 2006, is a career .286 hitter in eight Major League seasons, with 221 home runs and 772 RBIs. He has driven in 80 or more runs each of the last eight seasons and has scored 100 or more runs four times. Since the 2003 season, Lee is tied for 12th in the Major Leagues with 131 home runs and ranks ninth with 442 RBIs.

Lee's combined statistics with the Brewers and Rangers last season included a .300 batting average, 37 homers and 116 RBIs.

Lee's agent, Adam Katz, met with Astros owner Drayton McLane and Purpura on Wednesday.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061124&content_id=1745768&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

NJReds
11-24-2006, 01:44 PM
I wonder what the $$$ are on this deal? It was rumored that the Orioles had offered 6 years - $100M.

mth123
11-24-2006, 01:52 PM
I wonder what the $$$ are on this deal? It was rumored that the Orioles had offered 6 years - $100M.

Rotoworld is speculating $90 Million.

guttle11
11-24-2006, 01:56 PM
Lee will rake in that park, that's for sure. However, his numbers may struggle on the road since it's likely he will do nothing but swing for the fences at home. (tough to have two different mindsets).

IMO, there is no middle ground in this deal, it's either great or boneheaded. They could be losing Clemens and Pettitte. They'll need starters.

Mario-Rijo
11-24-2006, 02:01 PM
I cannot imagine Lee succesfully playing that left-center-field wall/carom on a regular basis. That should get entertaining.

Falls City Beer
11-24-2006, 02:06 PM
I like Lee a lot; but that contract could go Greg Vaughn in a heartbeat.

Spitball
11-24-2006, 02:28 PM
I wonder if they are budgeting the possibility of Clemens out of their equation.

Joseph
11-24-2006, 02:40 PM
Great signing, for the rest of the NL Central, in a year or two. This guy has DH written all over him. He makes Dunn look like a Gold Glover.

Jpup
11-24-2006, 02:45 PM
6 yrs/100 million:laugh: :laugh:

Willy
11-24-2006, 03:05 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2674398

With these contacts, maybe this is the time to unload Griffey, Dunn, Freel and load up on almost ready major league talent.

Jpup
11-24-2006, 03:16 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2674398

With these contacts, maybe this is the time to unload Griffey, Dunn, Freel and load up on almost ready major league talent.

maybe Jr., Dunn and Freel are guys I want to keep around for a long time.

Reds Fanatic
11-24-2006, 03:24 PM
The size of the contracts this year is just unbelievable. The owners have lost their minds. Years from now when the CBA they just agreed to is up the owners will be complaining about out of control salaries. I don't feel bad for the owners at all they are doing it to themselves.

blumj
11-24-2006, 03:28 PM
A 30 year old, below average defensive left fielder, who's never had a .900 OPS season. I guess these teams have so much money to spend that they're not willing to admit that this free agent class isn't worthy of it.

You know, I wonder if the Phillies would still trade Pat Burrell for a side of fries, and if he'd waive his NTC for a 1 year extension. You'd wind up with a pretty similar player for 3 years at maybe $42M? Hell, they could probably sign both Aubrey Huff and Trot Nixon for less than that and potentially wind up with a semi-reasonable facsimile of Lee's/Burrell's production.

redsfan4445
11-24-2006, 03:47 PM
[QUOTE=blumj;1198613]A 30 year old, below average defensive left fielder, who's never had a .900 OPS season. I guess these teams have so much money to spend that they're not willing to admit that this free agent class isn't worthy of it.QUOTE]

well i do nt se the Reds spending this type of money... sadly the Cubs and Astros got what they wanted.. you know the Cards will do something.. guess the Reds wont..not that i think Lee is worth that money, but it isnt looking good now...

LoganBuck
11-24-2006, 04:29 PM
Why not redsfan4445? The Cubs offseason spending has been questioned throughtout. The Astros got Lee, but he is no Adam Dunn, and while the Reds have not spent big dollars yet they have addressed improving the infield defense, and signed some bullpen flotsam, debate their contracts all you want, but those two signings did provide upgrades, just how much remains to be seen. They still need a right handed first base option, and a closer would be nice, but at this point I would be targeting a starting pitcher. If Krivsky has learned anything in this free agency period, he should realize that he has some valuable commodities, that are not named Adam Dunn, Bronson Arroyo, Aaron Harang, or Homer Bailey.

traderumor
11-24-2006, 04:49 PM
The Astros definitely needed something to go with Berkman. Left field isn't really that tough in the Juice Box, most anything to left goes out or is in that deep part of left center where Taveras is most likely to beat him to the ball anyhow. The downside is definitely the contract. They are giving out NFL-like contracts in years, which is ridicuolous considering they are guaranteed.

membengal
11-24-2006, 04:50 PM
Echo others. Owners and GMs have lost their collective minds. Every new contract is mind-boggling in its scope.

$16.66 million average per year for six years for Carlos Lee. That would be the in-his-30s Carlos Lee as that contract unfolds.

What really gets me is that Vlad signed back in 2004 for five years and $70 million. $14 million per on average. A massive bargain for Anaheim as it has turned out. Gracious.

Wonder how much money Pujols left on the table by re-upping with St. Louis when he did. I am guessing maybe as much as $100 million. In this market, he may have commanded in excess of A-Rod money.

The mind reels.

Krusty
11-24-2006, 05:27 PM
Actually with Jeff Bagwell's contract off the books, Lee's contract is very affordable to the Astros.

Outshined_One
11-24-2006, 05:47 PM
Also announced at the press conference was their signing of Woody Williams for 2/$12.5 with an option for a third year.

MWM
11-24-2006, 05:56 PM
I think left field is pretty tough in Houston as there's a huge left-center gap. A speedy center fielder helps, but his defense will hurt the Astros.

Caveat Emperor
11-24-2006, 05:59 PM
Actually with Jeff Bagwell's contract off the books, Lee's contract is very affordable to the Astros.

I find the notion of a $16 million/per deal ever being labeled as "affordable" to be rather amusing.

Six years is an awfully long time to guarantee a contract for -- Lee doesn't come off the books now until 2012.

Basically, you're gambling that Lee at 30, in his age prime years, is worth the same as Lee at age 34, 35, and 36, in years where his production should be diminishing and his risk of injury should be increasing.

I don't like playing odds like those.

westofyou
11-24-2006, 06:05 PM
6'2 - 235 and over 30, with Lance Berkman and his knees eyeing 1st base for the duration.

Body Type says it's going to be hard.

Here's the RC/27 and Ab's over the age of 30 for guys under 6'2" and over 235.


CAREER
MODERN (1900-)
AGE > 30
HEIGHT < 75
WEIGHT >= 230

RUNS CREATED/GAME RC/G AB
1 Daryle Ward 7.09 130
2 Steve Bilko 5.97 680
3 Bob Fothergill 5.51 1245
4 Dmitri Young 4.71 641
5 Shanty Hogan 1.34 66
6 Giovanni Carrara 1.29 22

RFS62
11-24-2006, 06:10 PM
Short term gain, long term loss for the 'stros

Aronchis
11-24-2006, 06:21 PM
Lee may be ready for a burnout in the OF, Astros probably will continue to decline IMO. Also remember that Oswalt is about 30, when short pitchers like him begin to decline.

MrCinatit
11-24-2006, 06:24 PM
While I find the amount of money being spent on these contracts - the lengths is even more staggering.

Team Clark
11-24-2006, 08:02 PM
I like Lee a lot; but that contract could go Greg Vaughn in a heartbeat.

Exactly my thoughts. It will be fun to see how it plays out.

pedro
11-24-2006, 08:17 PM
Horrible contract.

edabbs44
11-24-2006, 09:28 PM
I don't think we can look at the size of these contracts with the same logic as past years. It appears that the game is "awash with cash" , per Gammons. To me, this is bad news for our beloved Reds. As the Cubs and Astros get better, the Reds are running in place.

Think about it this way...for some teams, it might not matter what happens with players like Soriano or Lee in 5 years. They will probably be at least semi-productive, but these contracts won't cripple them like the Jr contract is currently doing to Cincy. This is the current market, and to get these guys now teams have to pony up this type of "insanity." Think about it in the now. WK better step up or 4th place will be best case scenario while dishing out millions to second rate players like Gonzalez. This is why I have been so disappointed with the off-season so far. Giving $14 million to a guy who will either be: a) not here in 3 years or b) in all probability, a complete offensive disaster if they do re-sign him is ludicrous if they do not make a serious move either this or next year.

The popular response to some of these signings is "this contract is going to look so bad in 4 years." Well, the Reds are going to look just as bad in 2007 if something doesn't happen soon with this type of talent headed to the Central.

MartyFan
11-24-2006, 09:46 PM
Thank God for Wayne Krivsky...Wonder what Rich will bring in this market?

FA dollars are nuts...lets get the draft picks and rebuild the system...I hope they have restraint on other big name FA's...especially pitchers.

Chip R
11-24-2006, 10:09 PM
I think left field is pretty tough in Houston as there's a huge left-center gap. A speedy center fielder helps, but his defense will hurt the Astros.


It might but defense they have. It's offense they need and he supplies that. They are strong defensively up the middle with Everett, Tavares and Ausmus. Biggio is no slouch either. They have power at the corners with Berkman and Ensberg. Yeah, down the road it looks rough for them but that's down the road and if Lee can still hit, they can pawn him off to an AL team as a DH or as a 1st baseman.

This also should clear up any talk of Dunn going to HOU. Unless he learns how to play right field, second or catch, HOU is not going to be the place for him.

MartyFan
11-24-2006, 10:23 PM
It might but defense they have. It's offense they need and he supplies that. They are strong defensively up the middle with Everett, Tavares and Ausmus. Biggio is no slouch either. They have power at the corners with Berkman and Ensberg. Yeah, down the road it looks rough for them but that's down the road and if Lee can still hit, they can pawn him off to an AL team as a DH or as a 1st baseman.

This also should clear up any talk of Dunn going to HOU. Unless he learns how to play right field, second or catch, HOU is not going to be the place for him.

I thought I had read previously that he was pretty much not the "apple of Houstons eye" any longer shortly after last season...who else would look better with Dunn in their uni?

TheBigLebowski
11-24-2006, 10:44 PM
There's no doubt that the contract is bad, but I don't see too many reasons why we, as Reds' fans, should celebrate.

Houston will always have more money to spend than us. I do not believe Lee to be the 'Stros only major FA acquisition in this off-season. I don't think Clemens is coming back, and I have no idea about Pettitte. If they both flee the coup, they'll sign a couple of pitchers that'll be at least comparable. There is no Roger Clemens available in this year's FA pool, but pitching was not their prob last year - offensive production was.

Sure...they'll likely be hating this deal in 3-4 years but, if they're out of contention by the deadline next year, there will always be a George Steinbrenner out there needing a power bat. Big contracts can almost always be unloaded - either wholly or in part.

This makes the Astros a better team next year and for the immediate future. They've added a legit superstar. We've added a guy who plays marginally better SS defense than Royce Clayton and a 40 year old lefty specialist. I know the balance of the off-season remains, but I'm not going to laugh in the general direction of the Houston Astros because they overpaid for Carlos Lee. They know what they'll get from him. It's not as if they gave up 9 mil/year to a lefty HR specialist who will be pitching in a home run hitters park.

flyer85
11-24-2006, 10:48 PM
bad contract but you have to spend money somewhere, it is unlikely to be really painful until the out years of the contract. It make the Stros better in 2007 as there OF was a disaster with all the ABs they gave to Lane and Wilson.

Aronchis
11-24-2006, 11:27 PM
There's no doubt that the contract is bad, but I don't see too many reasons why we, as Reds' fans, should celebrate.

Houston will always have more money to spend than us. I do not believe Lee to be the 'Stros only major FA acquisition in this off-season. I don't think Clemens is coming back, and I have no idea about Pettitte. If they both flee the coup, they'll sign a couple of pitchers that'll be at least comparable. There is no Roger Clemens available in this year's FA pool, but pitching was not their prob last year - offensive production was.

Sure...they'll likely be hating this deal in 3-4 years but, if they're out of contention by the deadline next year, there will always be a George Steinbrenner out there needing a power bat. Big contracts can almost always be unloaded - either wholly or in part.

This makes the Astros a better team next year and for the immediate future. They've added a legit superstar. We've added a guy who plays marginally better SS defense than Royce Clayton and a 40 year old lefty specialist. I know the balance of the off-season remains, but I'm not going to laugh in the general direction of the Houston Astros because they overpaid for Carlos Lee. They know what they'll get from him. It's not as if they gave up 9 mil/year to a lefty HR specialist who will be pitching in a home run hitters park.

Lee is hardly a superstar and I wouldn't call Woody Williams much of a "upgrade", that guy has the Milton look all over him. Celebrate and watch the decline really quicken now.

TheBigLebowski
11-24-2006, 11:35 PM
Lee is hardly a superstar and I wouldn't call Woody Williams much of a "upgrade", that guy has the Milton look all over him. Celebrate and watch the decline really quicken now.

I had forgotten about Williams, but let's see if he is actually replacing anyone. Heck, I'd bet he puts up numbers similar to Pettitte.

And yes - offensively, Lee is a superstar. No doubt about it.

Jpup
11-25-2006, 01:02 AM
I had forgotten about Williams, but let's see if he is actually replacing anyone. Heck, I'd bet he puts up numbers similar to Pettitte.

And yes - offensively, Lee is a superstar. No doubt about it.

Carlos Lee couldn't hold Adam Dunn's jock when it comes to hitting. Carlos Lee is not a superstar at anything.

Houston will be horrible if Clemens and Pettitte do not return. Their rotation, outside of Oswalt is very suspect.

Jr's Boy
11-25-2006, 01:57 AM
Is it just me,or are you all sick and tired of waiting for Krivsky to make a major deal,or a decent free agent deal.Cast wants a winner,oh well I know the serious GM meetings are in December.

Caveat Emperor
11-25-2006, 03:39 AM
Is it just me,or are you all sick and tired of waiting for Krivsky to make a major deal,or a decent free agent deal.Cast wants a winner,oh well I know the serious GM meetings are in December.

Given the current state of the free agent market (long term, high-dollar deals), I'm more than happy that Reds are sitting on the sidelines thus far.

IslandRed
11-25-2006, 09:06 AM
Given the current state of the free agent market (long term, high-dollar deals), I'm more than happy that Reds are sitting on the sidelines thus far.

Exactly. There's going to be some serious "winner's curse" examples from this offseason. At least when the last frenzy happened in 2000, they were spending on some of the very best players in the game.

Instead of winning a free-agent bidding war, we'd probably do better to pull off a trade where the ability to take on a contract is what allows it to happen.

flyer85
11-25-2006, 09:49 AM
The title of the thread should probably have been the other way around.

Ltlabner
11-25-2006, 12:49 PM
Is it just me,or are you all sick and tired of waiting for Krivsky to make a major deal,or a decent free agent deal.Cast wants a winner,oh well I know the serious GM meetings are in December.

Must be you.

If the choice is top shelf (if there is such a thing in this class of FA) for a stupid contract or slightly less than top shelf for a good contract I'll take the second option every time.

The curse of DanO and his stupid contracts still haunts us. Let's not start the clock on new ones when the old ones are just starting to get dumped overboard.

pedro
11-25-2006, 02:46 PM
Nothing like giving a $100 million to a guy who isn't a good fielder and has a lifetime OPS of .835.

Carlos Lee is a good player but he's seriously overrrated.

Caveat Emperor
11-25-2006, 03:53 PM
Nothing like giving a $100 million to a guy who isn't a good fielder and has a lifetime OPS of .835.

Carlos Lee is a good player but he's seriously overrrated.

Maybe the Astros thought they were getting Derrek instead.