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Willy
11-26-2006, 12:29 AM
Notre Dame

How in the world were they considered a National Title contender? How were they ranked 6th going into this game with USC?

They have beat a total of 1 current ranked team...Georgia Tech...The first game of the season that they squeaked by.


What a schedule Navy, North Carolina, Air force, Army.


Talk about a team living off their past.

MWM
11-26-2006, 12:31 AM
When you're 10-1, where are you supposed to be ranked? It's not like they had a lot of other 1 loss teams behind them.

They're a good team. They were a little overmatched tonight, but they can play with most teams in the country. They'd beat Florida, IMO.

guttle11
11-26-2006, 12:37 AM
When you're 10-1, where are you supposed to be ranked? It's not like they had a lot of other 1 loss teams behind them.

They're a good team. They were a little overmatched tonight, but they can play with most teams in the country. They'd beat Florida, IMO.


When was the last time they actually beat a top team?

MWM
11-26-2006, 12:42 AM
When was the last time they actually beat a top team?

Michigan was ranked in the top 5 when they beat them last year. And were it not for an illegal play with no time left on the clock, they would have beaten the #1 team in the country last year. And no one has been able to beat USC lately. They've played the teams on their schedule, what more are they supposed to do. Not being able to beat Michigan or USC this year isn't exactly something to hang your head over. And it certaily doesn't mean you're not a good team.

Willy
11-26-2006, 12:43 AM
It's easy to go 10-1 with a schedule like that. They schedule two top teams a year(michigan USC) and it seems like they loose to them every year.

I think they struggle with every team in the top 20. IMHO

MWM
11-26-2006, 12:49 AM
It's easy to go 10-1 with a schedule like that. They schedule two top teams a year(michigan USC) and it seems like they loose to them every year.

Uh, no it's not EASY to go 10-1 or more teams with weak schedules would do it. And before this year, they had beaten Michigan the previous two season, so I'm not sure where you get that they lose to them every year. And Notre Dame generally plays one of the toughest schedules in the country. this year the teams on their schedule, with the exception of UM and USC, happened to be pretty bad.


I think they struggle with every team in the top 20. IMHO

You're free to think that if you'd like. I think they'd beat most of the teams outside the top 10.

LoganBuck
11-26-2006, 01:17 AM
Charlie Weiss is overrated as a play caller imo. He is too risky. He refuses to play field position, and goes for it on 4th down way to often, most notably at midfield. He is such a good tactician his bravado gets the best of him. He is his own worst enemy. Against USC, Michigan and Ohio State last year his decisions to go for it on fourth down forsaking sure points via a field goal cost him dearly.

guttle11
11-26-2006, 01:35 AM
Weis coached about as well as he dressed tonight.

MWM, yes, Michigan was highly ranked last year, but those were preseason rankings. Michigan ended up 7-5. That's not a big win, the same way OSU's win over Texas isn't "big" anymore.

Michigan State
Penn State
Army
Navy
Air Force
North Carolina
Georgia Tech
UCLA
Purdue
Stanford

Not exactly a guantlet. There's about 15 teams that would win every one of those games, and put up much better showings against USC and Michigan.

Notre Dame is as overrated as they come. Every time they play a physical team, they have a ton of injuries and they get rolled. They're soft.

MWM
11-26-2006, 01:50 AM
I don't get the logic. Just because the teams you play aren't very good doesn't mean you're not capable of beating good teams. Their only two losses are to the second and third best teams in the country. there's nothing a team can do about their schedule. It's not their fault most of the teams on their schedule weren't very good this year. You can't make judgments on teams based solely on how good or bad other teams are. Saying the teams they beat weren't very good, therefore they're not very good either just isn't logical. I've watched Notre Dame a few times this year, and while they're not a top tier team, they're right at the top of the second tier. Like I said before, Florida is ranked #4 and I think they're better than Florida. I think they're better than any of the Big East teams or the Big 12 teams. They could play with anyone outside the top 5, IMO. This year, there's a larg gap between the top few teams and the rest of the country. That isn't usually the case, but this year I think it is.

BuckWoody
11-26-2006, 01:51 AM
http://www.section.at/img/smiley/popcorn.gif

Razor Shines
11-26-2006, 02:06 AM
Weis coached about as well as he dressed tonight.

MWM, yes, Michigan was highly ranked last year, but those were preseason rankings. Michigan ended up 7-5. That's not a big win, the same way OSU's win over Texas isn't "big" anymore.

Michigan State
Penn State
Army
Navy
Air Force
North Carolina
Georgia Tech
UCLA
Purdue
Stanford

Not exactly a guantlet. There's about 15 teams that would win every one of those games, and put up much better showings against USC and Michigan.

Notre Dame is as overrated as they come. Every time they play a physical team, they have a ton of injuries and they get rolled. They're soft.

ND's strength of schedule is higher than 10 of the top 15 teams.

Caveat Emperor
11-26-2006, 05:07 AM
Not exactly a guantlet. There's about 15 teams that would win every one of those games, and put up much better showings against USC and Michigan.

Lot of bowl-eligible teams on that list...

I'd be EXTREMELY eager to hear you name 15 teams that would win every single one of those games and put up better showings against USC and Michigan. Because every team in the nation has shown themselves to be more than capable of looking like total garbage on any given Saturday (that includes you, OSU -- who couldn't put away an Illinois team that got beat by Ohio University at home).

GAC
11-26-2006, 05:40 AM
http://www.section.at/img/smiley/popcorn.gif

Is the seat next to you empty? This will be better then Mission Impossible 3! :lol:

GAC
11-26-2006, 05:52 AM
I'd be EXTREMELY eager to hear you name 15 teams that would win every single one of those games and put up better showings against USC and Michigan. Because every team in the nation has shown themselves to be more than capable of looking like total garbage on any given Saturday (that includes you, OSU -- who couldn't put away an Illinois team that got beat by Ohio University at home).

Exactly. And lets not forget Ball State either. Michigan escaped by the hair of their chinny chin chin.

But good teams still find a way to win those games when struggling.

My hat was off to Ron Zook who prepped/coached a darn good game against OSU.

He has a very young Illini team (50 freshman), with some quality talent that could make an impression in the Big 10.

Redsland
11-26-2006, 11:23 AM
http://www.section.at/img/smiley/popcorn.gif
We have got to add this smilie to our menu.

BuckWoody
11-26-2006, 11:29 AM
Is the seat next to you empty? This will be better then Mission Impossible 3! :lol:
This thread didn't take off like I thought it would. :(

I really really really do not care for Notre Dame at all -but- their two losses are to the #2 and #3 teams in the nation...there's no shame in that. Like I said in the "Rematch" thread though, no way do they deserve another shot at Michigan in the Rose Bowl. If they must be in a BSC bowl at all, match them up with Boise State in the Fiesta.

Willy
11-26-2006, 11:40 AM
This thread didn't take off like I thought it would. :(

I really really really do not care for Notre Dame at all -but- their two losses are to the #2 and #3 teams in the nation...there's no shame in that. Like I said in the "Rematch" thread though, no way do they deserve another shot at Michigan in the Rose Bowl. If they must be in a BSC bowl at all, match them up with Boise State in the Fiesta.

I do think their bowl game will be the telling story of this ND team. No way I want to see them get matched up against Michigan(UM destoys them again) let's see them against Florida, or Louisville. If they get their butts handed to them again, then they are overrated.

Dom Heffner
11-26-2006, 02:01 PM
This why I can't stand college football.

There is no way to tell how good a team is because there are 600 teams, 40 conferences.

Thank goodness it is Sunday and we can watch real football where 30 yard field goals aren't nail-biters, nor are they blocked 30 percent of the time.

I read an article yesterday where one of the bowl directors was saying he didn't care about records when it came to considering Notre Dame because they always have a quality team.

What is he speaking, there, French?

You guys watch the 13th graders, I'll take the college graduates. :)

Jpup
11-26-2006, 07:15 PM
Charlie Weiss is overrated as a play caller imo. .

He's got a couple Super Bowl rings to prove that you are wrong.

guttle11
11-26-2006, 08:05 PM
This thread didn't take off like I thought it would. :(

I really really really do not care for Notre Dame at all -but- their two losses are to the #2 and #3 teams in the nation...there's no shame in that.

Notre Dame has no defense at all. None. And every time they face a team that matches them in athletic ability, they fold and get beat by double digits.

You can beat all the "bowl eligible" teams you want, but until you step up and beat a top level team, you're overrated if you're the 6th ranked team.

Did they beat Michigan, Arkansas, Texas, or LSU? No. The best team they beat all year was Georgia Tech, a team that belongs in the 18-25 range. How's that a good resume for a team ranked that high?

MWM
11-26-2006, 08:44 PM
Dude, you keep missing the point. Your logic is seriously flawed. You're saying that the teams they beat weren't very good, therefore they must not be very good. That just doesn't make any sense. You can say the same thing you're saying about several of the teams in the top 20.

RedFanAlways1966
11-26-2006, 09:37 PM
Because every team in the nation has shown themselves to be more than capable of looking like total garbage on any given Saturday (that includes you, OSU -- who couldn't put away an Illinois team that got beat by Ohio University at home).

Hate to interupt a good Notre Dame argument... but is there something wrong with a team losing to Ohio University? Last time I checked they had a pretty decent record and won their divison in the MAC. This is not the OU of the 1980's! :thumbup:

GAC
11-26-2006, 09:40 PM
Its gotta be Duke. :evil:

RedFanAlways1966
11-26-2006, 09:44 PM
Its gotta be Duke. :evil:

How 'bout them Blue Devils this weekend? Score a TD with a seconds left... need the extra point to tie the game. BLOCKED KICK! Game over, NC 31 - Duke 30. 0-12 record. Ouch!

TeamSelig
11-26-2006, 09:47 PM
This years Chicago Bears

LoganBuck
11-26-2006, 10:11 PM
He's got a couple Super Bowl rings to prove that you are wrong.

College and the NFL are too different games, and Bill Billichek made the big calls, ie going for it on 4th down. So far what has he won at Notre Dame? That same arguement can be applied to Jerry Narron as well, he played the game and I didn't. Yet I can point out that pitching Ryan Franklin repeatedly is a bad idea.

Caveat Emperor
11-26-2006, 10:28 PM
Hate to interupt a good Notre Dame argument... but is there something wrong with a team losing to Ohio University? Last time I checked they had a pretty decent record and won their divison in the MAC. This is not the OU of the 1980's! :thumbup:

I have two parents who are OU alums, and I have a sister currently attending. I get an earful of the Gospel According to Frank™ on a weekly basis. ;)

Ohio has something really special going on up at Athens. They play a tough and physical brand of football that the MAC just hasn't seen in while. The conference has been dominated by spread offenses like the ones run at Toledo and Miami for so long that nobody is prepared to stop a i-back attack like the one Ohio runs with McRae.

They run right at you, get a lead, and then kill the clock all while playing solid defense. Solich has done a tremendous job there, and he deserves to get the full support of the administration to keep it going.

traderumor
11-27-2006, 12:52 AM
You betcha ND was overrated. They started out at #2, don't forget, were just blitzkreiged by UM and USC, rubbed their beads hard enough to pull games out of their butts against UCLA and Michigan State, and rolled against some really bad, stat padding teams most of their second half of the season. The only reason they have been in the top 10 all year is because they are the "Golden Domers." Their D is an absolute joke, as both UM and USC exposed big time. Glad to see them get it handed to them last night, which was what I expected.

guttle11
11-27-2006, 11:23 AM
Dude, you keep missing the point. Your logic is seriously flawed. You're saying that the teams they beat weren't very good, therefore they must not be very good. That just doesn't make any sense. You can say the same thing you're saying about several of the teams in the top 20.

That's not what I'm saying. ND beat lesser teams, big deal, so did many other schools. When they played top competition, they got hammered. Several teams in the top 20 held their own against fellow top teams, whereas Notre Dame was out-everything-ed.

NJReds
11-27-2006, 11:59 AM
Did they beat Michigan, Arkansas, Texas, or LSU? No. The best team they beat all year was Georgia Tech, a team that belongs in the 18-25 range. How's that a good resume for a team ranked that high?

Who'd Michigan beat this year? I mean ND is obviously no good, so that's not a quality win. Wisconsin is ranked in the top-10 now, and I don't see any good wins on their schedule.

That said. ND doesn't deserve to go to a BCS bowl this year, either. But there are many ranked teams that have light schedules. And OSU should handle whoever they match up against, they have an incredibly talented team.

max venable
11-27-2006, 12:10 PM
Charlie Weiss is overrated as a play caller imo. He is too risky. He refuses to play field position, and goes for it on 4th down way to often, most notably at midfield. He is such a good tactician his bravado gets the best of him. He is his own worst enemy. Against USC, Michigan and Ohio State last year his decisions to go for it on fourth down forsaking sure points via a field goal cost him dearly.

I COMPLETELY agree with you on this one. I was thinking the exact same thing while watching the game Saturday night. He cost his team points and field position--big time--in that game. Boneheaded.

guttle11
11-27-2006, 01:06 PM
Who'd Michigan beat this year? I mean ND is obviously no good, so that's not a quality win. Wisconsin is ranked in the top-10 now, and I don't see any good wins on their schedule.

That said. ND doesn't deserve to go to a BCS bowl this year, either. But there are many ranked teams that have light schedules. And OSU should handle whoever they match up against, they have an incredibly talented team.

Michigan played Ohio State very well. They didn't win, but they proved their worth as a top team.

registerthis
11-27-2006, 01:53 PM
You guys watch the 13th graders, I'll take the college graduates. :)

They have those in the NFL? ;)

Seriously, I agree with you Dom. Seeing as I went to OSU and grew up in Columbus, I am and always will be a Buckeye fan. That won't change. But, beyond OSU, I don't really care that much for college football. The biggest reason is the completely idiotic way that the college game determines its national champion. I can't stand the conjecture and seemingly arbitrary way that the Powers That Be determine who, exactly, is a good team and who should be kicked to the curb. No such nonsense in the NFL, and the game is better for it.

flyer85
11-27-2006, 02:33 PM
Notre Dame
the start of the Weis tenure looks a lot like deja vu. I wonder how Charlie will do minus 17 starters and Brady Quinn.

Will a mediocre third season get him fired like the previous coach? Somehow I doubt it.

Puffy
11-27-2006, 03:42 PM
the start of the Weis tenure looks a lot like deja vu. I wonder how Charlie will do minus 17 starters and Brady Quinn.

Will a mediocre third season get him fired like the previous coach? Somehow I doubt it.

Not too worried - they had a top 3 recruiting class last year and the number 1 recruit in the nation on the way this year. They might be down a bit next year, but they'll still be OK.

And no, he won't be fired. Willingham was fired for two straight mediocre seasons and poor recruiting. Notre Dame has very little team speed and only slightly better than average talent. Its why I always laugh at people on here talking about Brady Quinn only be so good because of all the "great" talent around him. He had great receivers, but thats it. Marginal OLine and below average defense. Yes, Willingham got some talent, but it was Weis who brought out that talent. Example, Samardzija had 5 catches before Weis arrived.

RANDY IN INDY
11-27-2006, 04:13 PM
West Virginia, this season.

LoganBuck
11-27-2006, 11:35 PM
Puffy, how are the Notre Dame followers looking at the arrival of Jimmy Claussen? I have seen him play games on ESPN and I think he is going to need alot of time to adjust to the college game. His team is superior across the board to the teams they lined up against. That running back of his is a certified stud, and his recievers run wide open. Are they thinking he starts right away?

Handofdeath
11-28-2006, 04:39 AM
I remember at the end of the 2004 season. Cal was ranked #5 in the country and was passed over for the Rose Bowl by Texas. You have never heard such pissing and moaning. They went to the Holiday Bowl and got their butts handed to them by #21 Texas Tech 45-31. And the game wasn't as close as the score indicated.

Puffy
11-28-2006, 11:07 AM
Puffy, how are the Notre Dame followers looking at the arrival of Jimmy Claussen? I have seen him play games on ESPN and I think he is going to need alot of time to adjust to the college game. His team is superior across the board to the teams they lined up against. That running back of his is a certified stud, and his recievers run wide open. Are they thinking he starts right away?

I don't think so - they got two of the top 10 QB's last year and they will have a year under their belt and the three of them will probably be compteting to see who wins the job. Knowing Weis I think he will pick the one who impresses him most, not taking into account experience.